Wolves in sheep's Clothing

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,341
811
113
#1
I everyone.

The following may be silly questions but I want to ask as I am a little confused.

Who are wolves?
What do they do?

From my previous reading on it is that wolves as talked about in the N.T. are those out for personal gain.

So my question is

"Are wolves just out for personal gain?
Or are wolves people whose doctrine is incorrect and they continue to preach it.

Simple example, baptism saves and baptism does not save.

I have posted a few verses.

Matthew 7:15-16
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

Romans 16:17-18
Avoid Divisive Persons
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Acts 20:29-31
29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

When Jesus says ravenous the Greek meaning is basically a extortioner or a robber. This I think off material stuff.
Paul mentions belly. Which he also mentions in

Philippians 3:19
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

Peter says

2 Peter 2:3
3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

So are wolves out to gain personally or are they those who we perceive to be doctrinally errant or teaching heresy or are they a combination?

Who do I just dismiss and why, who do still walk with and why, who do I call out and why?

To be honest there are some threads that I don't respond to anymore because there comes a point where there is no point.
Not because I think the intent is for personal gain but because I believe doctrinally they are wrong and there is no shifting.

And some may reciprocate with me.

Thanks

Bill
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
175
0
#2
As I understand the symbology, sheep are followers of Jesus. Wolves are people teaching false doctrine and attempting to cause the sheep to turn from the shepherd to destruction. True believers can not be deceived; but seekers can be.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
5,043
444
83
#3
I see it similarly to Marc.... if you follow the symbolism, we are sheep, and wolves will circle a flock, and try to find the slower, or weaker sheep to sneak in and grab.

I see the human wolves as people who try to sneak into a group of believers and find the weaker members with the intention of removing them permanently from the flock. The wolves can employ any number of tactics to accomplish this... teaching a false doctrine, sowing seeds of discord or discontent... or seeds of doubt.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,183
798
113
#4
Wolves seek to devour the sheep. Bad shepherds smite the flock and scatter them.

Wolves bad sheep good. Good shepherd protects the flock bad shepherds scatter the flock.

Wolves modern day would be Islam or in times past the Roman Catholic church. Killing those who name the name of Christ because they name the name of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
438
83
#5
Sheep are those who follow the Shepherd: Jesus.

Wolves take on different forms...1. Minister of righteousness teaching false doctrines to build up their own power and/it wealth.
2. False prophets that teach demonic teachings that lead people away from God and His righteousness instead of towards the things of this world and not God's will.
3. Hypocrites who claim to be followers of Jesus but sinfully do things like abuse their wife and/or children,perverse sexual acts, stealing, etc.....they may also teach a lictebtious doctrine and claim its okay for them to keep SINNING willfully against others,unrepentant.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,103
60
48
#6
As I understand the symbology, sheep are followers of Jesus. Wolves are people teaching false doctrine and attempting to cause the sheep to turn from the shepherd to destruction. True believers can not be deceived; but seekers can be.
Actually mark if you would read Acts 20:27-31 you will discover the Apostle Paul says the wolves will attack the church not only from without, like the moromns, jw's, unitarians, christadelphians, the mind science teachers but they will also attack the church from within it's own ranks, vs29 and 30.

Then there is 2 Peter 2:1,2. Also 2 Peter 2:18-22. So who are the wolves within the church? I think the biggest wolves are the wof movement who blantly introduce destructive heresies. Notice at vs that Peter calls them "False prophets" and that they are. Also Peter backs up what Jesus said at Matthew 7:15-23 regarding false prophets. And when Jesus says at vs16, "you will know them by their fruits," He's talking about their teachings.

And one last thing marc, "Yes, true believers can be deceived, no doubt about it. If it were't so there would not be a gift of discernment. Also, keep in mind the Apostle Peter is writing to believers and at 2 Peter 2:2, "many will follow their pernicious ways, and because of them the way of the truth will be maigned." Lastly, and getting back to wof teachings, I know of many Christians that are truly saved but yet they bought into the wof movement. Just about all them left because they came to their senses thanks be to God waking them up. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Aug 7, 2016
203
7
0
#7
If a person doctrine is incorrect to you, and they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they tell other people about Jesus Christ, or God when the time arises, just about the goodness of God and Jesus Christ that leads to repentance, are they a wolf?

Now apparently from reading the original post the wolf is out for personal gain... so what does this mean exactly?

I guess in my opinion wolves don't bother me, because I know the truth, so it doesn't matter to me what they do, and God will deal with them, either way, and maybe one day they will come around and change.
 
Last edited:

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,124
127
63
#8
I will fear no wolves as a Lion protects my flock.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
175
0
#9
Actually mark if you would read Acts 20:27-31 you will discover the Apostle Paul says the wolves will attack the church not only from without, like the moromns, jw's, unitarians, christadelphians, the mind science teachers but they will also attack the church from within it's own ranks, vs29 and 30.

Then there is 2 Peter 2:1,2. Also 2 Peter 2:18-22. So who are the wolves within the church? I think the biggest wolves are the wof movement who blantly introduce destructive heresies. Notice at vs that Peter calls them "False prophets" and that they are. Also Peter backs up what Jesus said at Matthew 7:15-23 regarding false prophets. And when Jesus says at vs16, "you will know them by their fruits," He's talking about their teachings.

And one last thing marc, "Yes, true believers can be deceived, no doubt about it. If it were't so there would not be a gift of discernment. Also, keep in mind the Apostle Peter is writing to believers and at 2 Peter 2:2, "many will follow their pernicious ways, and because of them the way of the truth will be maigned." Lastly, and getting back to wof teachings, I know of many Christians that are truly saved but yet they bought into the wof movement. Just about all them left because they came to their senses thanks be to God waking them up. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Jesus warns of tares among the wheat [unbelievers in the church].

Matt 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV



if it were possible This use of the subjunctive indicates that it is NOT possible.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,341
811
113
#10
If a person doctrine is incorrect to you, and they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they tell other people about Jesus Christ, or God when the time arises, just about the goodness of God and Jesus Christ that leads to repentance, are they a wolf?

Now apparently from reading the original post the wolf is out for personal gain... so what does this mean exactly?

I guess in my opinion wolves don't bother me, because I know the truth, so it doesn't matter to me what they do, and God will deal with them, either way, and maybe one day they will come around and change.
With regards to your first question I would they are not a wolf.

With regards to your second question what do you think?
Did you read what ravenous in the Greek means?
As backed up when Peter says "They are after your money"
And as Paul says "They don't serve Jesus but their god is their belly"

I agree with you that God will deal will deal with them.

Ps "Now apparently from reading the original post the wolf is out for personal gain"

I was conveying my thoughts and was asking is that focus wrong or does it go beyond that?
That's what I don't get.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,085
791
113
#11
Not to derail your thread bill but I took a pic of that bench I painted with the quote I got from you. I can't figure out how to post the pic. I'll try again at some point to figure out how again. It came out great. :)
 

AuntieAnt

Senior Member
Feb 23, 2016
3,908
341
83
#12
Sheep are not exactly intelligent. Their faith is not in themselves. They will go off the same cliff over & over if the Shepherd wasn’t in constant communion with them. Sheep recognize the Shepherd’s gentle Voice and learn to follow Him day by day. Sheep depend on the Shepherd to lead them to water, to feed them, to protect them, to give them rest. Sheep know they need the Shepherd for everything.

Wolves don’t recognize the Shepherd’s Voice because they live by strategy. They wear sheep’s clothing, or “act” like a sheep by using God’s Word, but they speak it to condemn others and lift up themselves. They are not humble. They do not accept correction, never admit weakness, and stay in packs with other wolves. They scatter weak & wounded sheep with their vain religious philosophies.

Wolves are ravenous; they feed on controlling others, satisfying their pride, glorying in themselves. They tell the sheep how blind they are, that the sheep are lost, and that the sheep should follow the rules exactly like them. They try to take the sheep’s eyes off the Shepherd and onto themselves.

A sheep is not capable of anything without the Shepherd. Neither is a wolf; but a wolf will not admit that. A wolf will sink their teeth into a sheep before ever admitting they are wrong.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,341
811
113
#13
I see it similarly to Marc.... if you follow the symbolism, we are sheep, and wolves will circle a flock, and try to find the slower, or weaker sheep to sneak in and grab.

I see the human wolves as people who try to sneak into a group of believers and find the weaker members with the intention of removing them permanently from the flock. The wolves can employ any number of tactics to accomplish this... teaching a false doctrine, sowing seeds of discord or discontent... or seeds of doubt.
Yes I get that.

But what is their purpose?
Why do it?

If they genuinely believe they are preaching Christ to help others grow in Christ are they wolves?
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,103
60
48
#14
If a person doctrine is incorrect to you, and they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and they tell other people about Jesus Christ, or God when the time arises, just about the goodness of God and Jesus Christ that leads to repentance, are they a wolf?

Now apparently from reading the original post the wolf is out for personal gain... so what does this mean exactly?

I guess in my opinion wolves don't bother me, because I know the truth, so it doesn't matter to me what they do, and God will deal with them, either way, and maybe one day they will come around and change.
Ok matt, give me an example of incorrect doctrine? You also said, "I guess in my opinion wolves don't bother me, because I know the truth, so it doesn't matter to me what they do, and God will deal with them, either way, and maybe one day they will come around and change."Well, so you say but with that attitude you will be the first one to fall for false doctrine.

Remember when I told about Jesus Christ being in the OT as the angel of the Lord? You didn't believe it even after I offered proof and I said I have more proof. What did you say to me? "Have a nice rest of the day" which tells me your unteachable. And one more thing when you said, "so it doesn't matter to me what they do" with your "stipulation" "and God will deal with them."

Here is what Ezekiel 3:18,19 says, "When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; AND YOU DO NOT WARN HIM, OR SPEAK OUT TO WARN THE WICKED FROM HIS WICKED WAY that they may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, BUT HIS BLOOD I WILL REQUIRE AT YOUR HAND." Vs19, "Yet if you have warned the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way he shall die in his iniquity; BUT YOU HAVE DELIVERED YOURSELF."

Now, I am on purpose being hard on you because none of this is a game but life and death are at stake here. I have written in the back of my Bible what someone wrote 5 decades ago. I think but I'm not sure it might have been Charles Spurgeon, "Give me souls or I'll die." In other words, your ministry are other people, and you put them first. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,341
811
113
#15
I just want to say that if any of my response or thoughts come across as obtuse that is not my intention.

It's just in my own mind I'm trying to think who are sheep and who are goats.
Of course we know Jesus will judge that.
But can i?
If not why not?
What about those who build on the foundation that is incorrect?
Does not Paul say it will be burned up, yet they will still be saved?
 

AuntieAnt

Senior Member
Feb 23, 2016
3,908
341
83
#16
I just want to say that if any of my response or thoughts come across as obtuse that is not my intention.

It's just in my own mind I'm trying to think who are sheep and who are goats.
Of course we know Jesus will judge that.
But can i?
If not why not?
What about those who build on the foundation that is incorrect?
Does not Paul say it will be burned up, yet they will still be saved?
Sheep represent those who recognize their total insufficiency. They have abandoned all efforts to try to earn God's approval and are wholly trusting in the the work of Jesus Christ alone.

Wolves and goats have not come to the end of themselves and believe in whatever religious strategy they've developed to earn God's (and man's) approval.

One is walking in the spirit of Jesus Christ. The other is still walking in the flesh.
 
Aug 7, 2016
203
7
0
#17
Well my brother BillG in Christ Jesus,

What did Jesus Christ Himself say about judging?

Also I want to share this scripture its been on my mind a lot lately.

New Living Translation
1 Thess 5: 12 Dear brothers and sisters, honor those who are your leaders in the Lord’s work. They work hard among you and give you spiritual guidance. 13 Show them great respect and wholehearted love because of their work. And live peacefully with each other.

14 Brothers and sisters, we urge you to warn those who are lazy. Encourage those who are timid. Take tender care of those who are weak. Be patient with everyone.

15 See that no one pays back evil for evil, but always try to do good to each other and to all people.
(other translations may say if possible live in peace with all people I believe)

16 Always be joyful. 17 Never stop praying. 18 Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you who belong to Christ Jesus.
 
Last edited:

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,341
811
113
#18
Not to derail your thread bill but I took a pic of that bench I painted with the quote I got from you. I can't figure out how to post the pic. I'll try again at some point to figure out how again. It came out great. :)
What was my quote?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
2,725
241
63
#19
Yes I get that.

But what is their purpose?
Why do it?

If they genuinely believe they are preaching Christ to help others grow in Christ are they wolves?
Well that is a good question. Why is the wolf here? What is it's purpose?

Jesus said:
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Isn't Jesus saying the wolf in sheep's clothing "must come"? Why is this? I believe it can be traced back to the Word's of Jesus before He became a man.

Judges 2:21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.
23 Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.

Wouldn't these nations be Spiritually the religions around us, our rebellious thoughts, doctrines and traditions of men? Remember, Jesus specifically warned of a specific people who were are to "take heed of". Would these people not also be "wolf in sheep's clothing"?

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

These "Many" who come in Christ's name, who preach that Jesus is truly the Christ, who lie about God (deceive means to trick someone into believing something that isn't true) would they not be considered a wolf in sheep's clothing?

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Wouldn't these also be called "wolves in sheep's clothing".

It seems Jesus knows they must be here to test His people to see if they are faithful to Him or not.

That could be their purpose, yes?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,341
811
113
#20
Well my brother BillG in Christ Jesus,

What did Jesus Christ Himself say about judging?

Also I want to share this scripture its been on my mind a lot lately.

New Living Translation
1 Thess 5: 12 Dear brothers and sisters, honor those who are your leaders in the Lord’s work. They work hard among you and give you spiritual guidance. 13 Show them great respect and wholehearted love because of their work. And live peacefully with each other.

14 Brothers and sisters, we urge you to warn those who are lazy. Encourage those who are timid. Take tender care of those who are weak. Be patient with everyone.

15 See that no one pays back evil for evil, but always try to do good to each other and to all people.
(other translations may say if possible live in peace with all people I believe)

16 Always be joyful. 17 Never stop praying. 18 Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you who belong to Christ Jesus.
As you Judge so will you be judged?

That's part of my struggle here.
Did Jesus judge others here on earth?
Did the apostles?