woman preaachers

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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#61
i was breezing through, and the hot topic of woman preachers came up(i am a baptist, we call leaders preachers). i guess 1st timothy was in greek(i plead ignorance= i don't make my money preaching or spelling). but could the translators have got it so wrong from the manuscripts that he is saying there it is ok for a woman to preach and lead a church. i don't think so. i am not a bible scholar. can someone please help me with this? Praise Jesus! and i am not an english professor either! it might have been in hebrew? i am not a theologian either!

why start a new thread with the other thread so 'hot' as you say

i am new and i am replying to the wrong threads. but i don't like being peaceable, and i don't like the fact i cannot run roughshod. i was replying to the woman , that said a lot of folks just don't like what the bible reads. capeche

oh that's fine. run roughshod.

memawsboy...the irony is over the top :rolleyes: :sneaky:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#62
That translation would be clear enough if the Greek had the word "aner" or "andros" where you have "adult male". However, it doesn't. The word is "tis", which is equivalent to "anyone".
CONTEXT pal......especially the BOLDED word HE

4103 [e]PistosΠιστὸςTrustworthy [is]Adj-NMS3588 [e]hoὁtheArt-NMS3056 [e]logosλόγος·saying:N-NMS1487 [e]eiεἴifConj5100 [e]tisτιςanyoneIPro-NMS1984 [e]episkopēsἐπισκοπῆςoverseershipN-GFS3713 [e]oregetaiὀρέγεται,aspires to,V-PIM-3S2570 [e]kalouκαλοῦof goodAdj-GNS2041 [e]ergouἔργουa workN-GNS1937 [e]epithymeiἐπιθυμεῖ he is desirous.V-PIA-3S
 

SaintMichaels

Active member
Jun 6, 2018
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#63
i am new and i am replying to the wrong threads. but i don't like being peaceable, and i don't like the fact i cannot run roughshod. i was replying to the woman , that said a lot of folks just don't like what the bible reads. capeche
In short, you're here to cause trouble. Thanks for the warning.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#64
CONTEXT pal......especially the BOLDED word HE

4103 [e]PistosΠιστὸςTrustworthy [is]Adj-NMS3588 [e]hoὁtheArt-NMS3056 [e]logosλόγος·saying:N-NMS1487 [e]eiεἴifConj5100 [e]tisτιςanyoneIPro-NMS1984 [e]episkopēsἐπισκοπῆςoverseershipN-GFS3713 [e]oregetaiὀρέγεται,aspires to,V-PIM-3S2570 [e]kalouκαλοῦof goodAdj-GNS2041 [e]ergouἔργουa workN-GNS1937 [e]epithymeiἐπιθυμεῖ he is desirous.V-PIA-3S
Perhaps we both need to do a bit more work on επιθυμεί. From what I can gather, it is not gender-specific. I wouldn't take as final the translation of it in a context where other gender-neutral terms are rendered as male. English doesn't have a "neutral" gender; we use "it" rather than "he" or "she". Greek (and several other languages) do have the neuter, which complicates translation of passages such as this.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#65
Perhaps we both need to do a bit more work on επιθυμεί. From what I can gather, it is not gender-specific. I wouldn't take as final the translation of it in a context where other gender-neutral terms are rendered as male. English doesn't have a "neutral" gender; we use "it" rather than "he" or "she". Greek (and several other languages) do have the neuter, which complicates translation of passages such as this.
The HE used in context qualifies the word in question.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#67
You seem to be using circular reasoning.
Take it up with Paul and God who inspired the word HE within the context of the whole verse quoted....and too be honest...I cannot believe one who names Christ would say such a foolish thing when it comes to a verse that uses a masculine personal pronoun in context to to qualify a word in question....GOD is the God of wording and if the first word was applicable unto both men and women both would have been addressed in the latter part of the verse...God misses nothing and EACH word given qualifies the truth......I am really surprised that you would say what you said in light of the (HE is desirous of a good work) <----this cannot be swept under the rug and MUST be taken into account when viewing the first part of this verse.......WOW
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
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#68
There is no evidence of any kind that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew. Anyone who makes that claim really does not know what they are talking about.
That's simply not true. Check into it before you make such claims. You might disagree with it, but there is evidence.
I think this is some of that evidence. Its from the writings of Epiphanius around 350 concerning the ebionites. But no matter how much evidence, fact and truth you throw out there he will deny it exist.

"They too accept the Gospel according to Matthew. Like the Cerinthians and Merinthians, they too use it alone. They
call it, “According to the Hebrews,” and it is true to say that only Matthew expounded and preached the Gospel in
the Hebrew language and alphabet"
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#69
Its not higharchy where one has more authority than the other. The father and son working together in mutual submission to one another as one authority, one work of faith . The Son of man taking the lower position but not lower authority. (God is one) The same applies to the husband and wife submitting to each other as a labor of their love. Created as one.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#70
It flows perfectly with it. Let me show you.
By oldhermit
“Therefore if the whole church assembles together (This is the condition that specifies and limits everything that follows) and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you. What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. For all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints, The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?


Because the time of reformation had come where the male and female gather together as one represented by the new ceremonial law the head of hair covering for the woman an uncovered for the man . The woman being silent now that she could participate in ceremonies, in order to keep order and focus on the unseen glory of God represented by male and female . There was to be no consoling in a assembly arena . Men to council men, as woman to consul women . The women or the men if they are having relationship issues should do it at home,
 

SaintMichaels

Active member
Jun 6, 2018
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107
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#71
Take it up with Paul and God who inspired the word HE within the context of the whole verse quoted....and too be honest...I cannot believe one who names Christ would say such a foolish thing when it comes to a verse that uses a masculine personal pronoun in context to to qualify a word in question....GOD is the God of wording and if the first word was applicable unto both men and women both would have been addressed in the latter part of the verse...God misses nothing and EACH word given qualifies the truth......I am really surprised that you would say what you said in light of the (HE is desirous of a good work) <----this cannot be swept under the rug and MUST be taken into account when viewing the first part of this verse.......WOW
Do you believe God is a man?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#73
Take it up with Paul and God who inspired the word HE within the context of the whole verse quoted....and too be honest...I cannot believe one who names Christ would say such a foolish thing when it comes to a verse that uses a masculine personal pronoun in context to to qualify a word in question....GOD is the God of wording and if the first word was applicable unto both men and women both would have been addressed in the latter part of the verse...God misses nothing and EACH word given qualifies the truth......I am really surprised that you would say what you said in light of the (HE is desirous of a good work) <----this cannot be swept under the rug and MUST be taken into account when viewing the first part of this verse.......WOW
Your reasoning is circular, and with this post you have added another fallacy: an irrelevant appeal. The Greek simply has no masculine personal pronoun in verse 1.
 

SaintMichaels

Active member
Jun 6, 2018
156
107
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#74
God is light
God is Spirit
God is Love
God is revealed in Jesus CHRIST which came as a man, robed in flesh.
All true. God is a spirit. The holy spirit. And he is no respecter of persons. Acts 10.
It is therefore inconsistent with the qualities we know are God to insist God assumes the human failings that are aligned in prejudice against women.
God calls whom he will to his ministry. For he would that none would perish in their sins. Imagining he would say that and then after telling us there is no division, no Greek nor Jew, no male or female, that we are all one in Christ, the church, but he'd never call a woman to shepherd that flock and therein violate his own words concerning the oneness of us all, no separation, no male or female, is blasphemy.

Do not argue blasphemous inventions of man and put God's stamp on it.

God appointed prophetesses in the old testament, and the new. And there were actual female Shepherds overseeing flocks in the old testament. People actually teach God calls a woman to prophecy but not preach. That's not true. Nor is it consistent with God's telling us he has no bias when it comes to people. He doesn't prefer males over females in his service.
 

SaintMichaels

Active member
Jun 6, 2018
156
107
28
#75
Take it up with Paul and God who inspired the word HE within the context of the whole verse quoted....and too be honest...I cannot believe one who names Christ would say such a foolish thing when it comes to a verse that uses a masculine personal pronoun in context to to qualify a word in question....GOD is the God of wording and if the first word was applicable unto both men and women both would have been addressed in the latter part of the verse...God misses nothing and EACH word given qualifies the truth......I am really surprised that you would say what you said in light of the (HE is desirous of a good work) <----this cannot be swept under the rug and MUST be taken into account when viewing the first part of this verse.......WOW
Actually, what you're arguing in order to insist you know better than God whom he calls to his ministerial service is something you will take up with God at the judgment. James 3:1.

Everyone who participates in an Apologetics forum, a Theology forum, or a Bible Discussion forum, are teachers of the word. 1 Timothy 5.

When the word of God is available to all now it is incumbent on those who are in Christ to learn the word rightly for their own sake. And it is especially incumbent to be responsible in thinking to bring the knowledge of the word to others.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

God never said he would not call a woman to minister his truth. Never, ever! You and all like you should be careful to insist in teaching your prejudices that you know what God really meant to say. One woman teacher in scripture, regardless if the word pastor, minister, preacher, is not used, revokes anyone's insistence God would not call a woman to deliver His word so that no one would perish in their sins. There are far more than just one woman in that role by God's own account in His own word. You've been made aware of this. As have others all through these many threads that repeat this same argument endlessly and across the strata of Christian forums on the Web.

God proved He calls women to ministry. He said so himself.
Beware insisting He didn't know what he was doing. Or, really didn't mean to. Which is what anyone who claims women are not called is doing. They're questioning God, condemning God's will for those who serve him. That's dangerous.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#76
I think women should bake pies.

And it's well known in neural science women have a unique area of the brain devoted to pie baking, called the pie-frontal cortex.

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Oh...my pie cortex is deformed I think...

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Dec 12, 2013
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#77
Actually, what you're arguing in order to insist you know better than God whom he calls to his ministerial service is something you will take up with God at the judgment. James 3:1.

Everyone who participates in an Apologetics forum, a Theology forum, or a Bible Discussion forum, are teachers of the word. 1 Timothy 5.

When the word of God is available to all now it is incumbent on those who are in Christ to learn the word rightly for their own sake. And it is especially incumbent to be responsible in thinking to bring the knowledge of the word to others.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

God never said he would not call a woman to minister his truth. Never, ever! You and all like you should be careful to insist in teaching your prejudices that you know what God really meant to say. One woman teacher in scripture, regardless if the word pastor, minister, preacher, is not used, revokes anyone's insistence God would not call a woman to deliver His word so that no one would perish in their sins. There are far more than just one woman in that role by God's own account in His own word. You've been made aware of this. As have others all through these many threads that repeat this same argument endlessly and across the strata of Christian forums on the Web.

God proved He calls women to ministry. He said so himself.
Beware insisting He didn't know what he was doing. Or, really didn't mean to. Which is what anyone who claims women are not called is doing. They're questioning God, condemning God's will for those who serve him. That's dangerous.
I never said God does not use women to minister the word...the Office of a pastor over a congregation <---THE HUSBAND of one wife, HE desires a good work, HE must be blameless etc.....all masculine personal pronouns......
 

Groovy_Dan

Junior Member
Aug 26, 2013
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#78
I cannot fathom why any Christian body or Church of people would feel that women do not have a valid claim to preach and proclaim their witness to the Gospels.

We constantly read about Jesus' affiliation with women in the Bible, which often goes against the Hebraic rabbi's views and social opinions of the time. We also read of how Jesus incorporated influential women into key elements of his life and in the Father's plan.

We forget that not only did Mary carry him and give birth to him, but was instrumental in the Pentecost (not the pentecostal church before we all jump up and down), but possibly one of the first people to know the fulness of being filled with and walking with Spirit and maybe one of the first people to pray for others to be filled by the same spirit. After all, having been subject to such epic Holy power and in awe of the Lord she clearly had ultimate trust and faith in, what else would she want for the people who had surrounded her son during his life and had been charged with spreading the good news?

There are lots of influential women that showed their presence, help, wisdom, witness and darn right persistent commitment to faith and the proclamation even though socially, women where insignificant in ancient Jewish & Hebraic society. So today, when we are apparently equal in pay, position, politics and social standings (this bit is geographic I know - I'm generalising UK/US, Western), why wouldn't we want to hear the news, wisdom and teachings that God imparts?

After all, if we are made in His image, why would wisdom and teachings not be shared amongst the 2 sexes?

Listen to your women - they see the world at large in a different way to us men and can usually offer a different spin on things.
Also remember when dipping into scripture, the Bible was widely written BY men FOR men, written in a slightly more less socially sympathetic time.

Just listen - and learn :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#79
I never said God does not use women to minister the word...the Office of a pastor over a congregation <---THE HUSBAND of one wife, HE desires a good work, HE must be blameless etc.....all masculine personal pronouns......
"Husband of one wife" is in the Greek, but "he" and "his" aren't.