Women submitting to their husbands

[Harley_Angel]

In another thread, an interesting topic came up, and I would like to see what other people think about this.

"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior" (Ephesians 5:22-23). "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" (Ephesians 5:25). "In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church” (Ephesians 5:28-29). “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh” (Ephesians 5:31).

What does this mean to you? Do you believe this means women must submit to their husbands in that they shouldn't comprimise, disagree, or tell them no? Or do you think this means something more along the lines of we submit ourselves to being their helpers, aiding them, supporting them, and allow them to teach, guide, and love us?

I'm just interested in how far this "submission" of wives goes in your opinions and beliefs.

I'm also very interested in what people think of the husband's duty to their wives. By wronging their wife, being angry with their wife, or in other ways hurting or misleading them, it looks like God is saying the husband is also doing that to himself.

Very interesting stuff!

 

[missy2shoes]

....*waits for Ariannaaa...hehe*

 

[SwordOfFire]

This is a taboo issue today. How a person answers this will depend on their view of scripture.

It means exactly what it says. Wives should submit to their husbands just as they would submit to the Lord. That chafes the pride of most women, so they reject it or try to reason around it. As for husbands, they are supposed to love their wives just as Christ loved the Church, by giving their lives for them. That offends the selfishness of most men. The problem is that we live in a world of rebellious women, and selfish men. Women simply don't want to submit, and both parties involved are usually in the relationship for what they can get out of it, when the reality is that if you are married to someone, you are called to give your life for that person.

 

[DinoDillinger]

I'm a little scared to answer this but from my understanding of the bible it says the husbands should lead. Just like we should submit to God's will. Are we supposed to compromise with God or tell him no?
For a Husband it sounds like we should love the wife as we love ourselves meaning not to abuse or do her any wrong. I believe it another part of the bible it says the body of the husband is the wife's and the wife's body belongs to the husband and they shouldn't deny each other. This doesn't aggree with modern thinking, but for most of history that's the way things were. This is a very good reason for Christain women to be careful who they marry if they plan on living as scripture guides them to.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The wife being in submission to the husband is a curse/consequence that is part of the fall (Gen 3:16). Originally, Adam and Eve were to be partners and equals, one not ruling over the other.

Yet for Christians they are both equal in Christ, there is no male nor female in the spirit.

But I do believe the original curse from the fall remains as women still experience pain in childbirth, so they must also still submit to their husband, even if it causes grief or pain, that's part of the curse of Gen 3:16. It is not supposed to be always easy or enjoyable for the woman to submit, just as the pain in child birth.

 

[RoboOp]

Well the headship of man goes back to creation, not the curse. God made man first, and made the woman to be a helper for the man. That's the real basis of the Lord's command for wives to submit to their husbands.

Yes, in the curse it says "your desire shall be for your husband [whatever that means], yet he shall rule over you". I think that before the fall it was man being the head in a beautiful way. Now in this fallen world it is often in not such a beautiful way.. like the way that men rule over woman in extreme ways in some of the Muslim countries. (That's part of the curse.) Although in America it seems kinda the opposite extreme! Anyway, I digress...

Should a wife totally submit to her husband? Well, should a husband totally love his wife? haha, got you there! You can't apply the latter full force and water down the other!!

If you're looking for exceptions...... okay, if your husband tells you to blatantly disobey God (like "woman, go kill this person for me")... well of course you obey God before your husband. But that's pretty hypothetical!

Anyway.

Bottom line is:

Husbands should strive to love their wives as their own bodies, even if their wives are bad.

Likewise, wives should strive to submit to their husbands in everything, even if their husbands are bad.

So.......... be careful who you marry. And if you're already in a bad situation/marriage, well take up your cross and follow Him. (Sometimes, Christians are called to suffer.) The most important thing is to have a clear conscience before God, in obeying Him. And for a Christian woman, generally speaking, obeying God means obeying her husband.

 

[broken]

you ever see those guys walk around with their wife, and she's loud overbearing and obnoxious. HE's got his head down and full of yes dears. She makes all the calls and basically runs everything?

That's not submission.

It is my submissive wife's job to give me her input, it is not her job to command me and vise versa. Christ says husbands are to love their wives like Christ loves the church, that is with grace and compassion, not force and overbearing authority.

It really is mutual love and respect.

 

[Densetzu]

St. Paul really could have explicated this passage more. I mean are there not any exceptions? If I have my mind set on something stupid and my hypothetical wife realizes it's stupid, I would sincerely hope she does the right thing instead of blindly submitting to my stupidity.

 

[MaggieMye]

Here's the deal: Wives are to submit as in being husband's helper. We are to defer to them in decision-making. But scripture also tells the husbands to HONOR their wives.
1 pET 3: 7Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
8Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
Deferring to a husband does not mean that the wife has no voice. He is to consider her view and honor her as being intelligent enough to be his mate! When husbands take responsibility for making final decisions, they also RECEIVE the consequence of their decisions. The bottom line is that husband and wife TOGETHER are to consult thet Lord on all important decisions and only when in agreement, move forward on that decision. It's called....
WISDOM.
Maggie

 

[RoboOp]

St. Paul really could have explicated this passage more. I mean are there not any exceptions? If I have my mind set on something stupid and my hypothetical wife realizes it's stupid, I would sincerely hope she does the right thing instead of blindly submitting to my stupidity.

Densetzu: Let's suppose your wife has this idea that you just suggested -- the idea that she should not submit to her husband in something if it's stupid. She should submit only if your decision is good, considerate, wise, etc. etc. in her mind.

Now here's the result: anytime your wife thinks that your decision is not the best decision, then she won't submit. So in other words, she only submits when she agrees.

Is that submission???

 

[RoboOp]

Here's the deal: Wives are to submit as in being husband's helper. We are to defer to them in decision-making. But scripture also tells the husbands to HONOR their wives.
1 pET 3: 7Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
8Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
Deferring to a husband does not mean that the wife has no voice. He is to consider her view and honor her as being intelligent enough to be his mate! When husbands take responsibility for making final decisions, they also RECEIVE the consequence of their decisions. The bottom line is that husband and wife TOGETHER are to consult thet Lord on all important decisions and only when in agreement, move forward on that decision. It's called....
WISDOM.
Maggie

It's good to try to persuade your wife, but moving forward on a decision only when and if your wife agrees is not really leadership, and it may not even be possible. There are many decisions that have to be made, especially with kids and family, where you have to decide one thing or the other. Either what the wife thinks you should do, or what you think you should do.

It's not ungodly for a husband to take leadership and make a decision different from what his wife thinks they should do, when he does it for the best for the children/family.

In any case, even if the wife thinks the husband is not making the best decision, it's still her duty before God to follow him -- to submit to him. (Just as it's the husband's duty before God to love his wife and be considerate of her, even if she's a bad wife.)

It's not "submit if he loves you and makes loving decisions" and it's not "love her if she submits to you and respects you".

It's more like "submit to him, period"... and "love her, period".

The wife/husband is individually responsible to obey the Lord's command for his or her role, regardless of whether or not the other one is doing so.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

true, but how often does that happen? (that someone makes up their own mind, not listening to others, and end up making a decision that is good for all?)
...just a random thought, I don't really have the right to "vote", as I don't even have a bf at the moment

 

[RoboOp]

First off, you're stretching my words. I didn't say not listening to others. I said not being able to agree.

It's possible to listen to your wife all day and still not be able to agree.

And sometimes, quick decisions do have to be made.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

but still... I know a lot of guys that would never reconsider their opinion if they had decided theirs was right (girls to of course..)
point is; allthough the bible tells us to be submitting, I think chances (especially today when everything is happening so fast) are that the decision will be wrong, so if the wife disagrees totally, there is probably a reason for that. )

 

[RoboOp]

Question for you wwjdkilden: if your husband (when you have one) insists on a decision that you totally disagree with, will you submit?

 

[CristenJ]

This is really interesting to me, because for a long time, my mom had that verse written on a post-it note stuck to the fridge. She is a really strong willed woman, because she had to be to raise 3 kids alone. So when she re-married, and was constantly angry and fighting with my step-dad, she realized that she wasn't doing what God wanted her to do and hence the little daily reminder to herself, to submit.

Here's what it means, to me, to submit oneself to another...

Obedience
Thoughtfulness
Generosity
Willingness
Helpfulness
Understanding
Loving

Obedience to your husband doesn't mean rolling over and catering to his every whim. It means, doing what he asks of you to the best of your ability. If he makes a request that you can't accomplish, or feel uncomfortable doing, there's nothing wrong with explaining that to him. If he loves you (as the verse goes on to say he should), he will either help you through it, do it himself, or find an alternative.

Being thoughtful of one's husband is just that- thinking of him, his feelings, his needs, before your own.

Generosity and willingness go hand in hand- women should submit themselves by being willing to be generous...with their time, their body, their possessions, their money.

A woman who is submitting herself to her husband helps him. If he needs her to work to help pay bills, she works. If he needs her to help him make a decision, she gives her advice and opinion.

Submission is also learning to understand your husband. A woman who is too caught up trying to be the boss, or constantly complaining or being angry is not bothering to understand where their husband's moods or thoughts are coming from. They are not submitting to him, so they are not trying to understand him.

Without love, a woman can't submit herself. She won't trust her husband to take care of her, and she won't want to take care of him.


But what if the husband isn't doing what he should be doing, and leading and loving his wife the way God wants him to?

That's not a reason for the wife not to submit to him. The verse doesn't go on to say "...but only if he's behaving himself." In fact, by submitting to a husband who is NOT behaving himself, you are not only doing God's will, but also teaching your husband how to be the man God intended him to be.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

I am by nature very submissive (yea, I know it don't seem that way online ), so there is actually quite a chance I would. Don't know though. Depends what it was about... (if it had to do with people I'd "fight" him harder than if it had to do with money)

 

[Silex]

It's good to try to persuade your wife, but moving forward on a decision only when and if your wife agrees is not really leadership, and it may not even be possible. There are many decisions that have to be made, especially with kids and family, where you have to decide one thing or the other. Either what the wife thinks you should do, or what you think you should do.

It's not ungodly for a husband to take leadership and make a decision different from what his wife thinks they should do, when he does it for the best for the children/family.

In any case, even if the wife thinks the husband is not making the best decision, it's still her duty before God to follow him -- to submit to him. (Just as it's the husband's duty before God to love his wife and be considerate of her, even if she's a bad wife.)

It's not "submit if he loves you and makes loving decisions" and it's not "love her if she submits to you and respects you".

It's more like "submit to him, period"... and "love her, period".

The wife/husband is individually responsible to obey the Lord's command for his or her role, regardless of whether or not the other one is doing so.

Yeah that's rightly said.

Now the husband's decision may not be the best. Or it may even be a selfish decision. But the thing to consider is that he will have to give an account of this to God. Just as the wife will give an account of her duties to God. Man is the head, which also means that he's held responsible for what God has entrusted to him.

 

[MaggieMye]

The IDEA, Robo, is that the LORD is leading, the husband submitting to the Lord and she to husband. If she is not in agreement with what Husband is wanting to do then she is to take it to the Lord and petition that HIS will be done. If husband is dictator, he is not honoring his wife. And if wife is not submitting, even when she does not agree, she is out of line...but she needs to understand the BENEFITS of Godly submission.
Maggie

 

[Silex]

But what if the husband isn't doing what he should be doing, and leading and loving his wife the way God wants him to?

That's not a reason for the wife not to submit to him. The verse doesn't go on to say "...but only if he's behaving himself." In fact, by submitting to a husband who is NOT behaving himself, you are not only doing God's will, but also teaching your husband how to be the man God intended him to be.

You nailed it!