Would it be safer to die early in Lord ?

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Jan 12, 2019
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How do you know that letter only for the future 12 tribe.

12 tribe was exist before James born
James was widely believed to be the first NT letter ever written. I am not saying James knew that his letter, despite being the first NT letter, would end up being placed after Paul's letters, a move that I believed was done by the Holy Spirit.

As far as James was concerned, he wrote to the current 12 tribes that was scattered during Acts 8. But James was not aware of the mysteries revealed to Paul, he may not even know of Paul's conversion.

As far as the OT timetable was about then, the Tribulation should have begun a few years after Christ ascended to heaven.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,119
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Not sure to be honest. The more I read the Bible the more it concerns me. I felt Jesus hand and from the moment I got touched the biggest problems vanished in an instant.
Yet I am a sinner buying material things I better should not buy, eating things I should not eat etc.


Jesus died and rose again. Jesus conquered the world (by not becoming equal to it) and we can only conquer this world through Him. If you think Jesus took all sins with Him on the cross, take another look in the world. And I somehow believe we are all responsible on some level as human enterprise.

If we still like this world we must remember this world killed Jesus.
It is also good to remember that Jesus willingly laid down His life for those who would believe on Him, and that the specific purpose of His incarnation was to do so, and in so doing, fulfill the Scriptures pertaining to Him :)
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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It is also good to remember that Jesus willingly laid down His life for those who would believe on Him, and that the specific purpose of His incarnation was to do so, and in so doing, fulfill the Scriptures pertaining to Him :)
But have I laid down my life for Him too? Even using the internet is making me doubt my sincere christianity.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,119
15,059
113
But have I laid down my life for Him too? Even using the internet is making me doubt my sincere christianity.
Being perfected in Christ is an ongoing life long process. I expect better results post resurrection :D
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,636
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For unbelievers of course ,absolutely. The longer the better. If losing salvation is true ( which its not ) for a believer , then no .I believe if a believe could lose salvation then we all ! would without question . its a delusion to think we could maintain and keep our salvation.
Mat 24
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Salvation only for he that endure to the end.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,636
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James was widely believed to be the first NT letter ever written. I am not saying James knew that his letter, despite being the first NT letter, would end up being placed after Paul's letters, a move that I believed was done by the Holy Spirit.

As far as James was concerned, he wrote to the current 12 tribes that was scattered during Acts 8. But James was not aware of the mysteries revealed to Paul, he may not even know of Paul's conversion.

As far as the OT timetable was about then, the Tribulation should have begun a few years after Christ ascended to heaven.
So you believe now we are in tribulation and James teaching is only for 12 tribe of Israel?

What make you believe that letter not applicable for us?

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:

Greetings.

Do you believe this letter only for Israel citizen?

Is American Jews include?
 
May 31, 2020
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what do you mean the thief had no works. He took the punishment and gave up his life. Amd he also gave testimony and witness on the cross while dying.
tHe other thief that was on the other cross didnt do this and mocked Jesus.
The thief didn’t give up his life, it was taken.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,728
1,203
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First of all we need to examine Christianity. What is it?
Christianity has nothing to do with the Christian..😱😱😱
It is in the service of helping others, healing others, bringing truth to a dieing world.
If your born again...saved.....you are fed, wed, cloth, housed, ECT
This is not a name it and claim it speel look at the scriptures again if you disagree.
If God gave we must give....pay it forward simply put.
Why would anyone want to cut their life short blessing others?? Being able to do so?

For the joy that was set before him he endured the cross. Wow think about that saints.

Don't be like that man in the parable of the talents....it's not about you it's about them.
Where God guides he provides and looking at scripture sometimes in abundance. (Feeding of the thousands).

Oh by the way that man on the cross next to Jesus you might want to look at the parable of the servants of the field. Or as a short cut be reminded "I will have mercy on those I have mercy"
If you are stumbling over this man's salvation the why's or why nots....ask yourself why are you not rejoicing? Another soul saved.

Potter.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
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For those that teach that Christians can still go to hell after they are saved . Would it not be better to die before we can later mess it all up ? like the thief on the cross . He had no works to show and no opportunities to fail and when he died we know he was saved .
I believe this reveals a fatal flaw in the theology of those that hold to conditional salvation . We would see a disadvantage for those that live longer . You might say well the longer we live the more 'growth ' and blessings . But this would be a small consolation to an eternity in the lake of fire . This is when we see the inconsistency to this position brought to the surface . which I hope to discuss here .
Hello Throughfaith!

what do you mean the thief had no works. He took the punishment and gave up his life. Amd he also gave testimony and witness on the cross while dying.
tHe other thief that was on the other cross didnt do this and mocked Jesus.
The thief didn't "take the punishment" as he didn't have a choice. He was on the cross because he of his crimes of being a thief and therefore that could not be counted as a work in Christ. It wasn't until after he was crucified that he believed and was saved.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
For those that teach that christians can still go to hell after they are saved . Would it not be better to die before we can later mess it all up ? like the theif on the cross . He had no works to show and no opportunities to fail and when he died we know he was saved .
I believe this reveals a fatal flaw in the theology of those that hold to conditional salvation . We would see a disadvantage for those that live longer . You might say well the longer we live the more 'growth ' and blessings . But this would be a small consolation to an eternity in the lake of fire . This is when we see the inconsistency to this position brought to the surface . which I hope to discuss here .
The weakness of your argument is that it is an attempt at philosophy with no ground rules but those you make up as you speak. What sounds logical to you does not sound logical to another.
What do the scriptures teach? Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
The Lord knows whos are his and let every man that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Let us continue to have the scriptures in our minds rather than 10,000 pages of philosophy that attempt to twist scriptures to say what we wish they said.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
2,353
113
For those that teach that christians can still go to hell after they are saved . Would it not be better to die before we can later mess it all up ? like the theif on the cross . He had no works to show and no opportunities to fail and when he died we know he was saved .
I believe this reveals a fatal flaw in the theology of those that hold to conditional salvation . We would see a disadvantage for those that live longer . You might say well the longer we live the more 'growth ' and blessings . But this would be a small consolation to an eternity in the lake of fire . This is when we see the inconsistency to this position brought to the surface . which I hope to discuss here .
Greetings throughfaith!

========================================================================
"Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence—if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creaturee under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

"But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast.

"We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first. "

"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
==========================================================================

In all of the scriptures above, notice that our salvation is conditional upon continuing in faith as demonstrated by the use of the word "if" And rightly so, because scripture states that we are saved by grace through faith.

* We have been reconciled and will be presented holy, unblemished and blameless 'if' we continue in faith, established and firm.

* We are Christ's house 'if' we hold firmly to our confidence and our hope

* We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

* By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

What happens when a believer stops having faith?

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

In the scripture above, it is obvious that James is addressing believers by referring to them as 'My brothers.' In order to wander away from the truth, one would already have to have been in the truth. The wandered state is speaking about apostasy, i.e. going back to willfully living according to the sinful nature. Apostasy is not to be confused with the sins that we commit in our walk in Christ. Notice that while in that state of apostasy the person will have been accumulating sin and on his way to death. We also have other scriptures demonstrating our need to continue in faith as the requirement salvation.

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The reference to that servant "beating his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards," is referring to the believer who apostatizes by turning back and willfully living according to the sinful nature. I emboldened the words "servant" and "my master" for those who would attempt to say, "well then, he was never a true believe." The scripture above is speaking about a true servant who apostatizes. We have other examples as well:

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

I would remind those reading, that Jesus is speaking to His disciples as well as to all believers. The fruit that Jesus is referring to is our taking on the nature of God more and more as we continue going from faith to faith. It is synonymous with our being transformed into the image of Christ and the sanctification of the Spirit which is the process of our being made holy. Therefore, if we stop having faith, then we are no longer bearing fruit and we are no longer being transformed into the image of Christ. Regarding fruitfulness, Jesus said "some bring forth some thirty, some sixty and some a hundred fold. We all have different degrees of fruitfulness. All we need to be doing is moving forward in fruitfulness, which is accomplished by continuing from faith to faith.



















'
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
Greetings throughfaith!

========================================================================
"Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence—if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creaturee under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

"But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast.

"We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first. "

"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
==========================================================================

In all of the scriptures above, notice that our salvation is conditional upon continuing in faith as demonstrated by the use of the word "if" And rightly so, because scripture states that we are saved by grace through faith.

* We have been reconciled and will be presented holy, unblemished and blameless 'if' we continue in faith, established and firm.

* We are Christ's house 'if' we hold firmly to our confidence and our hope

* We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

* By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

What happens when a believer stops having faith?

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

In the scripture above, it is obvious that James is addressing believers by referring to them as 'My brothers.' In order to wander away from the truth, one would already have to have been in the truth. The wandered state is speaking about apostasy, i.e. going back to willfully living according to the sinful nature. Apostasy is not to be confused with the sins that we commit in our walk in Christ. Notice that while in that state of apostasy the person will have been accumulating sin and on his way to death. We also have other scriptures demonstrating our need to continue in faith as the requirement salvation.

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The reference to that servant "beating his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards," is referring to the believer who apostatizes by turning back and willfully living according to the sinful nature. I emboldened the words "servant" and "my master" for those who would attempt to say, "well then, he was never a true believe." The scripture above is speaking about a true servant who apostatizes. We have other examples as well:

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

I would remind those reading, that Jesus is speaking to His disciples as well as to all believers. The fruit that Jesus is referring to is our taking on the nature of God more and more as we continue going from faith to faith. It is synonymous with our being transformed into the image of Christ and the sanctification of the Spirit which is the process of our being made holy. Therefore, if we stop having faith, then we are no longer bearing fruit and we are no longer being transformed into the image of Christ. Regarding fruitfulness, Jesus said "some bring forth some thirty, some sixty and some a hundred fold. We all have different degrees of fruitfulness. All we need to be doing is moving forward in fruitfulness, which is accomplished by continuing from faith to faith.



















'
1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye ARE SAVED , if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, UNLESS ye have believed IN VAIN .
This answers all your ' If ' verses . Paul is speaking to people who may or may not be truly saved . We preach this way today also .
 
Dec 9, 2011
12,188
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A person has until their time Is up,(they die)leave their body to get saved. Then the judgement.

To get saved Is going to be by believing,believing In the WORD of GOD.

Anything else would be self effort
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
2,353
113
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
This answers all your ' If ' verses . Paul is speaking to people who may or may not be truly saved . We preach this way today also .
Actually, continuing in faith is a condition for salvation, as those scriptures make clear.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
Greetings throughfaith!

========================================================================
"Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence—if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creaturee under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

"But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast.

"We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first. "

"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
==========================================================================

In all of the scriptures above, notice that our salvation is conditional upon continuing in faith as demonstrated by the use of the word "if" And rightly so, because scripture states that we are saved by grace through faith.

* We have been reconciled and will be presented holy, unblemished and blameless 'if' we continue in faith, established and firm.

* We are Christ's house 'if' we hold firmly to our confidence and our hope

* We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

* By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

What happens when a believer stops having faith?

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

In the scripture above, it is obvious that James is addressing believers by referring to them as 'My brothers.' In order to wander away from the truth, one would already have to have been in the truth. The wandered state is speaking about apostasy, i.e. going back to willfully living according to the sinful nature. Apostasy is not to be confused with the sins that we commit in our walk in Christ. Notice that while in that state of apostasy the person will have been accumulating sin and on his way to death. We also have other scriptures demonstrating our need to continue in faith as the requirement salvation.

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The reference to that servant "beating his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards," is referring to the believer who apostatizes by turning back and willfully living according to the sinful nature. I emboldened the words "servant" and "my master" for those who would attempt to say, "well then, he was never a true believe." The scripture above is speaking about a true servant who apostatizes. We have other examples as well:

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.

I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

I would remind those reading, that Jesus is speaking to His disciples as well as to all believers. The fruit that Jesus is referring to is our taking on the nature of God more and more as we continue going from faith to faith. It is synonymous with our being transformed into the image of Christ and the sanctification of the Spirit which is the process of our being made holy. Therefore, if we stop having faith, then we are no longer bearing fruit and we are no longer being transformed into the image of Christ. Regarding fruitfulness, Jesus said "some bring forth some thirty, some sixty and some a hundred fold. We all have different degrees of fruitfulness. All we need to be doing is moving forward in fruitfulness, which is accomplished by continuing from faith to faith.



















'
When you preach the Gospel to someone do you not say
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
The weakness of your argument is that it is an attempt at philosophy with no ground rules but those you make up as you speak. What sounds logical to you does not sound logical to another.
What do the scriptures teach? Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
The Lord knows whos are his and let every man that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Let us continue to have the scriptures in our minds rather than 10,000 pages of philosophy that attempt to twist scriptures to say what we wish they said.
I understand well the world view of those that hold to loss of salvation and the verses they use . My point was about the inconsistencies of the position.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,131
2,353
113
When you preach the Gospel to someone do you not say
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.?
As a matter of fact, when I tell someone about Christ, I do mention the need to continue in faith. Salvation is not just a one-time confession, but requires faith from beginning to the end. This is why I posted the "if" scriptures. They demonstrate that salvation is conditional based on continuing in faith. The scriptures I posted speak for themselves.