Ye shall know them by their fruits

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MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#21
You had me all the way until "today's mega-church." The definition of a "mega-church" is any church with over 1500 people. In which case, I am a member of a mega-church.

I am a member, and yet I do not go to Joel Olsteen kinds of "services." I live in a large city, go to a church that preaches the gospel by teaching the Bible. And I mean "teaching the Bible," as in starts at Gen. 1, works to Rev. 22, and returns back to Gen. 1. Given it's just a few verses every week, it takes generations to do that. But that's what we do.

And then we do the fruit of the spirit through ministry--helping the poor, disabled, homeless, people stuck in sin, and caring for them, realizing them are us! We minister outwardly and inwardly. And we're fine knowing we all come short of what the Lord wants from us, but have fellowship with him and fellowship with one another so we can gather our strength to reject our sinful ways and keep on following. We're not "comfortable" in our sin. We know he is the way, and he is the one who breaks sinful habits. But, I can attest to it being good not having to hide I'm a sinner from my brothers and sisters because they seem good and I don't. We all know no one is as good a they seem, but there is the Lord who helps us grow and end the sin cycles. That is our comfort.

And we do grow as a church. We grow as people because we're given the grace to do that, and grow in numbers because of the grace to do that too. And when we get a little too crowded for three services on Sunday, it's time to start another church. We are the daughter churh of another era. And we are the parent church of 16 other churches in our city.

Please don't judge "mega-churches" as if we're all heretical like Olsteen or one of the multitude of money-grubbing false teachers. After all, Jerusalem had a mega-church before the tribulation.
I'm glad to hear that, praise the Lord that we still have large congregations where the Word of God is preached faithfully. It is unusual in this day and age though.
I have joined a small Church, we regularly have visitors walking out during the service when they hear something that makes them uncomfortable. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is highly offensive to a sinner who wants to be affirmed and accepted.
We have had all kinds of people walk out, when they find out that we're not there to entertain them but we are there to worship God and learn from His Word.
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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#22
I left the Catholic Church because it's teachings conflict with the Bible. The Bible says, let every man be a liar and let God be true so when the Pope makes claims that are not Biblicaly sound I have to ignore him and hold to the Holy Scriptures.
The Catholic Church teaches so many things that are not Biblical. The more I compared it's teachings to the Bible the more evident it became to me that it was an apostate Church.
Did you really read the Catholic Apologetic before concluding that my Church's teachings are unBiblical bro?

I met a lot of former Catholics who say this w/o learning that Catholic teachings have basis too in the Bible.

please try to ask Fr. Abe Arganiosa/Fr. Steve Shott and Scott Hahn if you have questions about the Catholic teachings before concluding that my Church's teachings are wrong. then after getting the answers it is up to you to decide.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#23
I agree. The problem, as I see it anyway, is that many today think that "loving" others not only means accepting them, but accepting their sinful behavior as "ok" (even when the Bible is clear that it isn't "ok" with God .. cf
1 Corinthians 6:9-10). What they are 'actually' doing is hating (in the guise of loving), because they don't want to offend anyone and/or they are afraid to take a stand for eternal, Biblical truth in light of the fickle "truth" du jour that the world insists that we believe instead.

For their sake, as well as everyone else's, we must stand for God's truth and for His righteousness, because if 'we' don't, who will? Like Burke said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

~Deut

...........Psalm 12
.........."8 The wicked strut about on every side when vileness is exulted among the sons of men.
Yep, we have to love and accepting even our enemy, but love mean to tell them if Jesus is the only savior.

Some people think, to love LGBT mean to agree with LGBT, and say that LGBT is not sin

That is not love, that is hate, that is to push other to hell, it is hatred

To love is to tell them it is sin, they may hate us, but love is to make us available for hate, Jesus love and make Himself available to be hate and crucified
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
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#24
Don't see how they could. Jesus had not cleansed them yet.
They believed on the coming (for them) messiah.

We also have Hebrews 11
What about it? Are you referring to this?
13) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

They lived and died, not having received the promises. But they will.

25) [Moses] Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26) Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Moses gave up a life of ease, looking forward to his reward, which is still future. But he'll get it.

And John 3:13.
They may have risen after Jesus died , not certain on that.
I believe the dead are still dead. But there are resurrections coming, when they will be rewarded for their lives of service to God.

I think it's silly to think that people who lived and died before Jesus Christ came have no chance of being saved.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#25
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Even back then Jesus said that there are few that find eternal life, so how much less today when many who claim Christ are relaxed in their walk with Christ, wanting to hold unto sin and think they are right with God.

Also notice it says few there be that find it, all the while saying God chose them to be saved without their choice, but then why do they have to find it.

We have a choice, and it is that belief that God chose them without their choice in the beginning that is the cause for many hypocrites, millions of them, for they think since they have been chosen without their choice they can never fall so they engage in sin, and enjoy it, and then say they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God.

But they sin on purpose, and do not try to beat it, and if they hate sin they can beat sin by the Spirit.

The Bible says that what seals the saints by the Spirit is they depart from iniquity, and a Spirit led life will not sin, and only if they are led of the Spirit are they saved.

But we see them holding unto sin, and enjoying it, and thinking they are right with God, but then they are not led of the Spirit.

But I have to watch myself for I do not want to act like holier than thou, but I am a human too that has to watch my lifestyle,
I have a friend who is a devout Roman catholic, he tells me that the Catholics acknowledged the fact that we are born sinners and we will continue to sin for the rest of our lives.
The way the Catholic Church deals with sin is by confession, while the Protestants are at war with themselves. My Catholic friend tells me that God knows we will continue to sin because He made us that way, that's why He gave us confession, whereby we clean ourselves up on a regular basis. He said it's like having a bath for the spirit, you come out clean then you come back after you get dirty again.
There are so many different nominal Christian Churches with different rituals and sacraments, all designed to treat our sinful state. Most of these are not Biblical, they were invented by men with unclean motives like making money rather than leading people in a Godly and Biblical way.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
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#26
Did you really read the Catholic Apologetic before concluding that my Church's teachings are unBiblical bro?

I met a lot of former Catholics who say this w/o learning that Catholic teachings have basis too in the Bible.

please try to ask Fr. Abe Arganiosa/Fr. Steve Shott and Scott Hahn if you have questions about the Catholic teachings before concluding that my Church's teachings are wrong. then after getting the answers it is up to you to decide.
I had a good conversation with a senior Catholic Priest about the teaching of the Catholic Church. He didn't provide Biblical answers to my questions, he used human psychology to answer spiritual questions.
There are so many great books and youtube documentaries showing how the teaching of the Catholic Church is not Biblical at all.
Even the Pope doesn't believe in the sovereignty of God over all things
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#27
I had a good conversation with a senior Catholic Priest about the teaching of the Catholic Church. He didn't provide Biblical answers to my questions, he used human psychology to answer spiritual questions.
There are so many great books and youtube documentaries showing how the teaching of the Catholic Church is not Biblical at all.
Even the Pope doesn't believe in the sovereignty of God over all things

Catholic teach, God entrust priest to forgive people, there was a time they sale it. It was a profitable commodity

I quote part of they catechism

It say below, priest have a power to forgive sin. I believe they twist this verse

Matthew 18:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This verse is for real believer regardless pastor or regular member. Not every pastor have this power, not because ordained pastor make them have this power. God not fooled by ritual.






VIII. THE MINISTER OF THIS SACRAMENT

1461 Since Christ entrusted to his apostles the ministry of reconciliation,65 bishops who are their successors, and priests, the bishops' collaborators, continue to exercise this ministry. Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

1462 Forgiveness of sins brings reconciliation with God, but also with the Church. Since ancient times the bishop, visible head of a particular Church, has thus rightfully been considered to be the one who principally has the power and ministry of reconciliation: he is the moderator of the penitential discipline.66 Priests, his collaborators, exercise it to the extent that they have received the commission either from their bishop (or religious superior) or the Pope, according to the law of the Church.67
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,627
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#28
Matthew 18:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

How God entrust such power to a sinful man?

If Holy Spirit in that man, Holy Spirit, not that man have a power, a man is only a tool to declare, not the owner of that power.

If a high priest do not have Holy Spirit in his heart he doesn't have that power.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
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#29
Matthew 18:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

How God entrust such power to a sinful man?

If Holy Spirit in that man, Holy Spirit, not that man have a power, a man is only a tool to declare, not the owner of that power.

If a high priest do not have Holy Spirit in his heart he doesn't have that power.
Yes, there are two types of sinners. One is a carnal sinner given over to sin by God turning His back on him and not helping him fight against the temptation to sin, these are called the reprobate. They are sealed for hell, they can do nothing to change their fate.
The other is the Christian sinner who is at war with his sin and God helps him to resist sin. He does stumble and fall into sin but God lifts him up and he repents and continues on the narrow path that leads to eternal life
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
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#30
yeah....you know Jesus said that is not our job really...you might remember the wheat and chaff parable?

I am positive there are many more 'true' believers than those who say otherwise might know

Jesus uses righteous judgement when He looks on the heart. I am sure we have all had times in our life when we might not have wanted others to look on our 'heart' but God saw it then too

I kind of cringe when I read posts like yours

I do

if anyone never lives up to the expectations of Christians it would actually be......other Christians

we are often like David...just shocked..and then we find out that we are the one that is falling short
I humbly accept your chastisement and I thank you for it. I know we are all at different stages of our walk with God, so it's not right to look down on anyone in the Church.
I do believe we should judge Churches and individuals by their fruits and if we see something wrong, we should point it out and seek to bring Biblical light on the issue. But it must be done in a loving way, not a judgmental way.
A wise person will respect you for correcting them but a fool with hate you for it.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#31
I humbly accept your chastisement and I thank you for it. I know we are all at different stages of our walk with God, so it's not right to look down on anyone in the Church.
I do believe we should judge Churches and individuals by their fruits and if we see something wrong, we should point it out and seek to bring Biblical light on the issue. But it must be done in a loving way, not a judgmental way.
A wise person will respect you for correcting them but a fool with hate you for it.

oh honestly I am not trying to chastise you

just putting a different perspective on it

believe me, I have 'complained' as much as anyone and maybe more but I honestly have come to believe that just praying about it and letting God deal with it will have a two fold result

1. you never have to worry about what you said to someone about someone else...right or wrong...cause there is WAAAY too much of that in Christian circles

and

2. God already knows and He will always answer one way or another
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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#32
I had a good conversation with a senior Catholic Priest about the teaching of the Catholic Church. He didn't provide Biblical answers to my questions, he used human psychology to answer spiritual questions.
There are so many great books and youtube documentaries showing how the teaching of the Catholic Church is not Biblical at all.
Even the Pope doesn't believe in the sovereignty of God over all things
Then why don't you ask again Fr. Abe Arganiosa/Fr Steve Shotts/Dr. Scott Hahn who are experts in Catholic Apologetic (defense of the Catholic faith using the Bible to prove that it does not contradict the Scriptures)?

then decide after getting their answers.

why join newly established Bible based groups are most if not all just make members only merchandise by money hungry pastors?

you should join a sect that is the continuation of the 1st Century Christian Church. you can either choose the Orthodox or the Catholic Church.

not newly established Bible based groups.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
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#33
Then why don't you ask again Fr. Abe Arganiosa/Fr Steve Shotts/Dr. Scott Hahn who are experts in Catholic Apologetic (defense of the Catholic faith using the Bible to prove that it does not contradict the Scriptures)?

then decide after getting their answers.

why join newly established Bible based groups are most if not all just make members only merchandise by money hungry pastors?

you should join a sect that is the continuation of the 1st Century Christian Church. you can either choose the Orthodox or the Catholic Church.

not newly established Bible based groups.
I can't deny the truth that God revealed to me when he opened my spiritual eyes on the day when I was born again. Once you receive the truth it exposes false teachers, everything becomes black and white.
I immediately saw that my Roman Catholic Church was not obeying Gods commandments, I saw people bowing down to statues (the second commandment broken there), I heard prayers to Mary even though Jesus said "I am the only way to the Father", I heard people refering to the Pope as "Holy father" which is breaking another commandment.
I could continue to point out so many things that the Roman Catholic Church does and teaches that God clearly forbids, so that leads me to conclude that the Church is not serving or worshiping God. It is focused on serving it's own interests, which I believe to be wicked.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,627
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#34
Yes, there are two types of sinners. One is a carnal sinner given over to sin by God turning His back on him and not helping him fight against the temptation to sin, these are called the reprobate. They are sealed for hell, they can do nothing to change their fate.
The other is the Christian sinner who is at war with his sin and God helps him to resist sin. He does stumble and fall into sin but God lifts him up and he repents and continues on the narrow path that leads to eternal life
Yep, we can directly pray to Him, catholic believe you have to confess before priest.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,627
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#35
Then why don't you ask again Fr. Abe Arganiosa/Fr Steve Shotts/Dr. Scott Hahn who are experts in Catholic Apologetic (defense of the Catholic faith using the Bible to prove that it does not contradict the Scriptures)?

then decide after getting their answers.

why join newly established Bible based groups are most if not all just make members only merchandise by money hungry pastors?

you should join a sect that is the continuation of the 1st Century Christian Church. you can either choose the Orthodox or the Catholic Church.

not newly established Bible based groups.
Hi Jameen , I don't think catholic start at first century.

If the teaching of catholic start at first century, the teaching must be in the first century teaching. For example purgatory, why not in the Bible. Bible is first century Christian teaching. How about pray to Mary and to St. Peter ? What part of first century bible teach that.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
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#36
Hi Jameen , I don't think catholic start at first century.

If the teaching of catholic start at first century, the teaching must be in the first century teaching. For example purgatory, why not in the Bible. Bible is first century Christian teaching. How about pray to Mary and to St. Peter ? What part of first century bible teach that.
Roman Catholicism began in around 352 AD when the Roman Emperor Constantine supposedly converted to Christianity. Up until then Romanism was Antichrist, it killed Christians and it continued killing all the true Christians until recently.
The Roman Catholic Church murdered over 50 million Christian Saints, only because they ejected the Pagan Roman version of Christianity.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,627
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#37
Roman Catholicism began in around 352 AD when the Roman Emperor Constantine supposedly converted to Christianity. Up until then Romanism was Antichrist, it killed Christians and it continued killing all the true Christians until recently.
The Roman Catholic Church murdered over 50 million Christian Saints, only because they ejected the Pagan Roman version of Christianity.
Yep according to this link bellow, she kill over 150000000, more than Islam.

Catholic is more danger than Islam, every body know Islam doesn't believe Jesus, but most Christian think catholic is Christian, like I was. More cunning.

http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/papacy-estimates.doc
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
216
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#38
I have a few questions? If you had a church with 10 people what would you preach? If G-d grew your church 100 people what would you preach? If G-d grew your church to over 1,000 people what would you preach?

Would you preach the same as 10 or say now I am a mega-church and afraid of the Gospel!?!

Is G-d against a "big" church? Maybe G-d wants to save many people....

Yes there are unsaved in mega-churches but there are unsaved in churches of 10 too...

Does G-d not build His church!?! What would have happened if Y-shua did not accept Mary Magdalene just as she was?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,627
1,145
113
#39
I have a few questions? If you had a church with 10 people what would you preach? If G-d grew your church 100 people what would you preach? If G-d grew your church to over 1,000 people what would you preach?

Would you preach the same as 10 or say now I am a mega-church and afraid of the Gospel!?!

Is G-d against a "big" church? Maybe G-d wants to save many people....

Yes there are unsaved in mega-churches but there are unsaved in churches of 10 too...

Does G-d not build His church!?! What would have happened if Y-shua did not accept Mary Magdalene just as she was?
Jesus accept Mary Magdalena as long as she accept Jesus and repent, so do Jesus accept sinner like me, as long as I accept Him and His teaching, but if I sale His teaching, He will kick me out
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
216
63
#40
Jesus accept Mary Magdalena as long as she accept Jesus and repent, so do Jesus accept sinner like me, as long as I accept Him and His teaching, but if I sale His teaching, He will kick me out
Are you saved? Have you made Messiah your Lord and Savior?

If not I would LOVE to talk to you....

Shoot me an e-mail.... We can talk all night if we need to....