Your Friends in Hell

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jimmydiggs

Guest
#41
A complex drug cocktail that is linked with the interactions and nature of social relationships.
Selected for by evolution. What is the intrinsic value to love in a value-less world?
 
Jun 20, 2010
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#42
Selected for by evolution. What is the intrinsic value to love in a value-less world?
The intrinsic value is when I decide. I decide my social relationships are important.

Allow me to help you understand
If I believed in a God, and I believed that God gave me the ability to love. The intrinsic value of love would still be how much I value my relationships.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#43
The intrinsic value is when I decide. I decide my social relationships are important.
Allow me to help you understand
If I believed in a God, and I believed that God gave me the ability to love. The intrinsic value of love would still be how much I value my relationships.
That is all subjective and arbitrary.

Also, define instrinsic please.
 
Jun 20, 2010
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#44
Intrinsic value is something I give value because of what it is.
Extrinsic value is something I give value because something else of value relates to it.

e.g.
Intrinsic value could be the nature of a job is enjoyable.
Extrinsic value of the job is money, which helps me to buy food, to sustain my life; which is of intrinsic value.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#45
Intrinsic value is something I give value because of what it is.
Extrinsic value is something I give value because something else of value relates to it.

e.g.
Intrinsic value could be the nature of a job is enjoyable.
Extrinsic value of the job is money, which helps me to buy food, to sustain my life; which is of intrinsic value.
Which dictionary?

EDIT: Also, we humans valueing something is still subjective.
 
D

dmdave17

Guest
#46
No one chooses hell, they don't believe that it exists. I don't hate god, I simply don't believe that he exists. I idolize the tools of satan in no way. I love humans I don't "idolize" them. And the same applies for millions of others just like me. We're not choosing hell and we're not evil, and yet you believe that we deserve eternal torture anyways. No one chooses eternal torture, they're not even aware that the choice even exists, or they were born Muslims and thought their god was real, there are numerous reasons why someone wouldn't believe in the Christian god and none of them qualify as choosing hell.
Unfortunately, for Christians who believe that Scripture is the inspired word of God, you and all the people who refer to have chosen hell. In John 14:5-6, the Bible says, "Thomas said to him, 'Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?' Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'" Since you have heard the Gospel, and have not trusted Christ as your Lord and Savior, we believe that you are doomed to hell.

But that doesn't mean that all Christians hate you, or think less of you. True believers love you and feel sorry for you. They want you to enjoy the same benefits that they know they have. When you love your friends and relatives, you want to spend eternity with them. Therefore, it is troubling to those of us who believe in heaven and hell to think that those we love will not be with us.

This is not an intellectual issue. It is a matter of faith. If you knew that a person was slowly killing themselves with alcohol or drugs, wouldn't you want to do what you could to save their lives? That is the way Christians feel about non-believers. We are not trying to force our way of life on you, we are trying to save yours.

God bless you.
 
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#47
the dictionary of human resource management course. I'll dig out the topic from the book next time I'm at the library <_<
It links close to motivational theory and incentives.

but while we wait for that
Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic Value
"One thing that&#8217;s hard to accept about intrinsic vs. extrinsic value is that it&#8217;s a sliding scale with different paradigms. Nothing is binary. Something that has intrinsic value in one context and have no value in another."
 
Apr 24, 2011
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#48
Some people enjoy avoiding giving an answer to my questions, and repeating long ago refuted fallacies or irrelevant facts over and over insisting that they somehow destroy the entire driving force behind my stance. I refuse to respond to these people any longer.
 
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MaggieMye

Guest
#49
:confused:What was your question?
 
Jan 18, 2011
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#50
Can't do "anything" as you put it. Omnipotent woudl be anything logically possible. For example, he can't make a one-ended stick as that would be a violation of the definition of "stick."
Things which are logically impossible don't have meaning. Talking about a square circle is just as meaningful as talking about jS4*6ncoOh2H^99k2h. So, God's "inability" to do something logically impossible doesn't in any way impinge on His ability to do anything He wants to do. When we say that God can do anything, it's necessarily implied that this means anything logically meaningful. He does whatever He pleases.

3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases. (Psalm 115:3)
 
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redu

Guest
#51
So are you or are you not CHOOSING to NOT believe in him??? and by choosing to not believe in him and thus neither believe Jesus to be your savior, then YES my friend you ARE in fact CHOOSING HELL...do you not understand that??? I'm not sure how else to break that down....??

Obviously, not all of those things apply to everyone...those examples (idolizing people, tools of satan, etc...) were merely to encompass the different type of nonbelievers out there...i could have added many more...

No one said you were evil...but you are a sinner...and the wage of sin is death....

What do you mean they aren't aware the choice exist? If you are aware of God( not if you believe in him, but simply if you are aware that there are people called christians who believe in a God and Jesus Christ, and that only through him we are saved)...then you are aware of the choice...and the only choice is to Believe or not....everyone that has heard the word has that choice and makes it.

For people that never heard the word of God, but still lived according to the Bible by their natural nature.. the bible talks about them and how God may judge them: Romans 2.14-16 "When Gentiles(unbelievers), who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all."


Numerous reasons?? or excuses?? If you seek the truth, you will find it.[/COLOR]
 
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redu

Guest
#52
either way...if you really want to have a discussion, check your inbox....Im curious to know how you lost your faith, and what your perception of reality is...

All the best and God bless!
 
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Ramon

Guest
#53
How can you see ANYONE you know in hell? My heaven is as Jesus said it is. All men BORN of water and spirit are saved.The word of God lights EVERY MAN that COMES INTO THE WORLD. Jesus said that many choose the path of the destruction to enter in and it is but few that find the true path to life. Does this mean that only a few out of the BILLIONS of people that has ever lived will burn forever? HOW? Does not that SAME Bible also state that it is the heart of a man that plans his PATH but it is the LORD that directs his steps? The bible says in Rev. that death and hell are cast into the lake of fire then those who were not found in the Lamb's book of life. So if I lived 100 good years of doing what the world considers evil all of my days, die with a smile of satisfaction on my face in doing all of the evil I can; I will be revived only to FINALLY SEE THE TRUTH, told I did very bad and after death and hell are thrown in (I guess to show me how it will feel) before I'm thrown in for an ETERNITY? How can I die if death and hell are already there BEFORE me?

If Satan is a spirit, how will he die? Is HELL and DEATH spirits or men? If neither, then how were they cast into the fire?

Last, but in no way least, if those that were cast in that were not in the lambs book of life after death, am I now eternally suffering for what I did in only 100 years? A DAY with the Lord is as a 1000 YEARS! How severe the punishment for me who was but a couple of hours at best out of His day. Plus we should not forget that again,the Word lights up EVERY MAN THAT COMES INTO THE WORLD.
My friend. It is called the 2nd death. May Jesus bless you.
 
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Ramon

Guest
#54
At the idea that people in heaven will not be able to remember that there are people in hell...

Doesn't this idea disturb you a little bit? That you won't even be able to remember your beloved family and friends as they are in eternal agony? All so that your paradise in heaven can be a little bit more perfect while 98% of humanity suffers torture for centuries to eternity?

In complete honesty, this idea is disgusting to me. Even if I believed I was going to the heaven side of it. I don't understand how anyone could believe that is going to happen, and not be absolutely heartbroken, revolted and terrified.



............... Have you ever loved anyone?
And you should be terrified. Jesus said few are being saved. Will you be a part of that 2% who only end up in hell because of their hatred and bitterness? Or will you obey Jesus and have Life? The Lord has warned us, if we don't listen then indeed we will burn forever. Harsh, and true. And you will also answer for everything you do, be it in love or in spite. You will not answer to me, and I will not answer to you, we will both answer to Jesus Christ.

The gospel of Jesus is that you can be saved from hell. That is how it is good news. God is a king, and you know a kings command cannot be broken. If he said the souls that sins shall die, it will. It is unchangeable. And since we have all broken the law we were subject to death. But that death was of the flesh, and God established at the same time a Spiritual condition. So that Jesus, who is spiritual, who also came in the flesh will take on our punishment, so that anyone who believes in him will not be judged. But anyone who does not believe will be condemned.

My friend, it is very heart breaking, because even though I know some people will hear this Gospel, and believe it, I also know MANY MANY people will mock and hate this Gospel, and call it foolish. It makes me sad, because I see all the time just how powerful grace is. It makes me sad because I say, WHY LORD!! WHY WILL THEY NOT HEAR YOU!! WHY WHY!! WHY DID YOU HAVE MERCY ON ME!!!??

But Jesus will say to many people, ''My servants told you that hell is real, and that anyone who sins will be thrown into hell. Why then did you not believe them and repent before it was too late.''

THAT IS WHY WE MOURN NOW!! BUT OUR MOURNING WILL TURN TO JOY WHEN WE ARE IN HIS PRESENCE FOREVER! BECAUSE IN HIS PRESENCE IS FULLNESS OF JOY! THIS LIFE IS TEMPORARY, YOU KNOW THAT. AND WHAT WILL YOU DO?

Satan doesn't want anyone to know about hell, that is why his servants (those who say there is no hell, who even preach these lies) say these things. But they are making their own graveyard, and they also will face the Lord. I HOPE YOU LISTEN AND REPENT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE MY FRIEND. May Jesus bless you.
 
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Feb 14, 2011
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#56
Those in heaven will REMEMBER and RECOGZINE those that are also there. Those that go to hell will remember. Those in heaven will not grieve for those in hell because they will not remember them; there can be no sorrow in heaven, no grief. WE will have our eyes SOLELY on the Lord. We will be LIKE the angels, neither being married or marrying. We are SPIRITUAL beings first and formost. Our physical bodies are irrelevant as we will know each other by the Spirit.
Ez28:18. Thou has defiled thy sanctuarys by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy travick, therefore will i bring a fire from the mids of thee, it shall devour thee,and I WILL BRING THEE TO ASHES,UPON THE EARTH,in the sight of all them that behold thee.

''wakeup''.
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
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#57
Actually when I lost my faith, I consulted every pastor who would meet with me, desperately trying to hold onto my beliefs, get answers. The idea of losing my faith was absolutely horrifying to me because of the doctrine of hell. I'm not biased, I was biased towards it and I overcame that. Have you ever considered it is you that is biased towards it?
I'm sorry you lost your faith, maybe that was neccarsary for you to obtain a real faith given by God and not just a set of rules and beliefs taught by your parents and church :D I had a somewhat similiar situation to yours occur, i grew up a non practicing christian you might say and when i decided to become a practicing christian i noticed that alot of things in the bible offended me. If you would like to chat personally for a bit I would be happy to share some of my journey with you, perhaps you could take something from it. Now to answer your question, yes I am now baised to my faith, I did however go through a skeptic phase while searching for the truth.
 
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HeavenwithinYOU

Guest
#58
1 Timothy 4:10 - I PLACE my faith in the Living God who is the savior of ALL MEN, especially those who believe --- Preceded by: THIS IS A TRUSTWORTHY SAYING THAT IS worthy of FULL acceptance. THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH FEW BLOWS friends... believe it, GOD is LOVE, HE will give prizes to some, punish others, but have faith in God that HE will save HIS creation folks, think about it, HELL is for SATAN AND HIS ANGELS, SURE PEOPLE will go there, but where it says FOREVER AND EVER in English, the original says for AGES AND AGES... AS HARD AS LIFE for Christians are they will face that later and then some, but I doubt HE will leave them there permanently, they were born blind, Satan wasn't, God will show mercy and love to His own enemies as HE tells us to show to ours HE will surely come through for HE IS THE LOVING GOD that I know. THEY WILL SUFFER, for sure, but I know this to be true, that GOD will show mercy eventually for HE is mercy and LOVE and finds ZERO pleasure in eternally tormenting those SATAN blinded from birth. I AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE so don't bother, just pray, fast and seek the kingdom, hear me out too please -------- > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6FTS8G6ZAE
 
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MaggieMye

Guest
#59
Wakeup: I have no idea what it is that you are trying to say here with a quote of my post and that verse. Please explain
Maggie
 
Apr 24, 2011
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#60
So are you or are you not CHOOSING to NOT believe in him??? and by choosing to not believe in him and thus neither believe Jesus to be your savior, then YES my friend you ARE in fact CHOOSING HELL...do you not understand that??? I'm not sure how else to break that down....??
I can't just make myself believe in something. I can't make myself believe I have 12 fingers when I only have 10. There is no choice, there is simply what I have come to know and the honest conclusion that brings me to. No one chooses hell, not one. What don't you understand about lack of belief? There's no solid reasons to believe that the Bible is true over what Islam or Hinduism would tell people, there's no solid reason to believe in any religion... You're really saying that everyone who doesn't agree with you, is choosing to go to hell, and deserves it.

Wouldn't even matter if we were choosing it more directly, which we aren't. According to you we're still god's children, and he's still torturing the vast majority of us for all eternity. Child abuse makes me sick, there is no justification for harming a child. It's like a parent who beats their child saying the child was asking for it when the kid stole some cookies.

Obviously, not all of those things apply to everyone...those examples (idolizing people, tools of satan, etc...) were merely to encompass the different type of nonbelievers out there...i could have added many more...
You should add more types, I think some good ones would be, moral, compassionate, kind, peaceful non-believers. Because you clearly view non-believers negatively, as you choose to portray them all as possessing of terrible qualities... It's unfair.

I'm sorry you lost your faith, maybe that was neccarsary for you to obtain a real faith given by God and not just a set of rules and beliefs taught by your parents and church :D I had a somewhat similiar situation to yours occur, i grew up a non practicing christian you might say and when i decided to become a practicing christian i noticed that alot of things in the bible offended me. If you would like to chat personally for a bit I would be happy to share some of my journey with you, perhaps you could take something from it. Now to answer your question, yes I am now baised to my faith, I did however go through a skeptic phase while searching for the truth.
My home was extremely serious about practicing, church twice a week, prayer before every meal, prayer before sleep, everything they said or did revolved around their religious beliefs. And I did obtain a faith separate of that which my parents and church drilled into me as a child. Before I lost my faith, I had a faith that vastly differed from my parents, it was a better faith that did not believe in violence or bigotry. Please stop assuming that everyone who doesn't agree with you, didn't give what you believe a chance, or is biased against you...