Zionist re-education programs (get them while their hot!!!)

[Ryan1976]

Might want to watch the documentary movie, Occupation 101. Especially if you live in the US and are protestant. If you are a conservative evangelical fundamentalist, you might want to watch the entire movie - the link is below.

God bless


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SbjAanvUqs[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV8N9J9gJ9c&feature[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM1ruYCS6JY&feature[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg0ql9tA1-I&feature[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ZHRPHrOsI&feature[/video]



You can watch the entire documentary here: (click) OCCUPATION 101

 

[Ryan1976]

I and many others (globally) would also like to hear a biblical response as to why many "christians" believe that they must back the nation of "Israel" and why they believe that God also backs "Israel".

Let me just put this out there as well. Let's say we use the argument that it was the Jews that first lived there and therefore are entitled to the "land". Why is it that Americans don't live on "American" Indian reservations and allow the Native "American" Indians to have our "lands"?


God bless

 

[watchmen]

I and many others (globally) would also like to hear a biblical response as to why many "christians" believe that they must back the nation of "Israel" and why they believe that God also backs "Israel".

Let me just put this out there as well. Let's say we use the argument that it was the Jews that first lived there and therefore are entitled to the "land". Why is it that Americans don't live on "American" Indian reservations and allow the Native "American" Indians to have our "lands"?


God bless

Is this a joke. Are you a Christian claiming that Israel should not possess the Land that God has promised them? I do not remember any where in scripture saying that God promised this land to the Indians?

 

[Ryan1976]

Is this a joke. Are you a Christian claiming that Israel should not possess the Land that God has promised them? I do not remember any where in scripture saying that God promised this land to the Indians?

Are the Jews that deny Christ, "saved"?

Are Christians, "true Christians", The Church -- the new Israel?

Is the promise land literally Jerusalem? Or is the "promised land" in a much more valuable place?

Has the Temple not already been "erected", ie, raised?

And why would God get behind a nation that is systematically trying to force out a Christian populace?

What verses does one use to feed this new idea of what Israel is? Are the majority of those verses found in the Old Testament?

Were not the first Christians, Jewish -- THE remnant everyone is so eagerly trying to weed out of histories?

And even if God promises Israel some land, does it mean that He will reward them regardless of how they treat others, especially Christians?

Why is it that there are devout Jews that aren't Zionists?

I only hope that this issue might lead people to question why many protestants have become "Zionists".

Where did it come from? How did it start? How did American Protestantism absorb this "view"?

Can we really arrive at this conclusion from the scriptures?


Seek


Not a bad place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism


God bless

 

[Ryan1976]

The rest of the movie.....


Please people. Educate yourselves. Deconstruct your doctrines and the traditions that you consider to be "Christian". This is one of the reasons why the world can no longer see God in the various bodies of His so-called "followers".


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agn1dHqQlzY&feature[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErOsqvO-qsQ&feature[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIh8Kky541g&feature[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWdwkmLIDfg&feature[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv8mA4yGwIk&feature[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqXwX9Fy9Uw&feature[/video]



The dispensationalist theology of John Nelson Darby which motivates one stream of American Christian Zionism is often claimed to be the foundation of American Christian Zionism. He first distinguished the hopes of the Jews and that of the church and gentiles in his ground-breaking series of 11 evening lectures in Geneva in 1840. His lectures were immediately published in French (L'Attente Actuelle de l'Eglise), English (1841), German and Dutch (1847) and so his teachings began their global journey. While there is no doubt that it had a great influence through the Scofield Bible, Christian support of the restoration of the Jews preceded the publication of the Scofield Reference Bible (first published by OUP, 1917) for nearly a century, and many prominent Christian Zionists and Christian Zionist organizations such as the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem do not subscribe to dispensationalism.[4]


Prominent Christian Zionists

• Arthur Balfour[16]
• John Nelson Darby
• William Blackstone
• Tom DeLay[17]
• Jerry Falwell[18]
• John Hagee[19]
• Alan Keyes[20]
• William Kelly of Guernsey and Blackheath
• Charles Henry Mackintosh
• Pat Robertson[21]
• David Pawson
• Orde Wingate

--- WIKI (for more detailed study, seek)



God bless

 

[Densetzu]

What I've never understood is why there needs to be a two-state solution? Why can there not be a single multi-ethnic state that incorporates Palestinians, Jews, and anyone else who wants to live there equally?

 

[Ryan1976]

What I've never understood is why there needs to be a two-state solution? Why can there not be a single multi-ethnic state that incorporates Palestinians, Jews, and anyone else who wants to live there equally?

Power, money and, errr, money. Power.


(insert Psalms numero 2)


I couldn't believe how much the US gives to Israel. Sick sad world. Still......


He is risen!

 

[watchmen]

What I've never understood is why there needs to be a two-state solution? Why can there not be a single multi-ethnic state that incorporates Palestinians, Jews, and anyone else who wants to live there equally?

Because the Palestinians will not go for that. They want all or nothing.

 

[Ryan1976]

Because the Palestinians will not go for that. They want all or nothing.

You should check out the movie, Watchmen. Oddly, the (pre-trib) rapture stuff has very similar roots to Christian Zionism.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Is this a joke. Are you a Christian claiming that Israel should not possess the Land that God has promised them? I do not remember any where in scripture saying that God promised this land to the Indians?

According to scripture, modern Israel is a corruption, a false state set up by the synagogue of Satan Rev. 2:9.

Israel was to have a new home and land other than Canaan land. 2 Samuel 7:10

Israel was to have a land of unwalled villages that were to be occuipied by a diverse group from many nations and ethnic groups (Modern Israel is a 'Jew-only' walled military state)

Israel's land is described as a 'camp of saints' Rev. 20:7-9. (Only a Christian can be a saint).

Israel was to be blind to her identity (recieve a new name - blind to their old identity) Isaiah 42:16-19.

Israel called by a new name. Isaiah 62:1-2.

Isarel to have a new religion (Christianity) to be saved by God (Jesus) Jeremiah 31:7, 31-7, Hebrews 8:8-12.


The modern geographical area of Israel is in a forced occupation by a non-Israelite Khazar Nation from Eastern Europe, the Military State of Israel under the Star of Rephraim Hex from Babylon is an abomination and will be destroyed. The formation of the false state of Israel was organized under the Balfour Agreement funded by Rothschilds Family Dynasty and Britain.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The Israelites deserve to be on that land, it is theirs. The alternative is Muslims and then we have another type of "Iran" or "Iraq" state in the middle east lead by Hezbollah. Besides, what they have is only a part of what God promised them in the bible. It is the land which Abraham dwelt in and was promised to him by God.

If you look at some articles at:
http://www.ariel.org/

by Dr A[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]rnold Fruchtenbaum a Jewish Christian it will change your incorrect perspectives.[/FONT]

Replacement theology is wrong. We need to understand God has not rejected His people or replaced them by Christians - they are under punishment/blindness until the rest of the world is saved. Read Romans 11. God's rejection of Israel is not permanent and complete but temporary and partial. God has not cast away His people. Verse 23 - God shall graft in the natural branches again.

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

If I was American I would hang my head in shame if my country stopped supporting Israel. Many arab countries sided or were with the Nazi's in the war.
The Jews have always been a persecuted minority in arab lands and you should be ashamed to call yourselves Americans with your rhetoric about freedom and justice and liberty if you don't stand for Israel.

 

[Densetzu]

Power, money and, errr, money. Power.
He is risen!

Indeed.

I couldn't believe how much the US gives to Israel. Sick sad world. Still......

Well I'm not against the US supporting Israel, but we can't support them indiscriminately.

We need to encourage the Palestinians to abandon violence, but we also have to insist that the Israelis stop acting as though they are somehow racially superior.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

The Israelites deserve to be on that land, it is theirs. The alternative is Muslims and then we have another type of "Iran" or "Iraq" state in the middle east lead by Hezbollah. Besides, what they have is only a part of what God promised them in the bible. It is the land which Abraham dwelt in and was promised to him by God.

If you look at some articles at:
http://www.ariel.org/

by Dr A[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]rnold Fruchtenbaum a Jewish Christian it will change your incorrect perspectives.[/FONT]

Replacement theology is wrong. We need to understand God has not rejected His people or replaced them by Christians - they are under punishment/blindness until the rest of the world is saved. Read Romans 11. God's rejection of Israel is not permanent and complete but temporary and partial. God has not cast away His people. Verse 23 - God shall graft in the natural branches again.

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

If I was American I would hang my head in shame if my country stopped supporting Israel. Many arab countries sided or were with the Nazi's in the war.
The Jews have always been a persecuted minority in arab lands and you should be ashamed to call yourselves Americans with your rhetoric about freedom and justice and liberty if you don't stand for Israel.

The problem is 'Snail that International Jewry is 92% Khazar from Eastern Europe, they never were the ancient Israelites, the idea that modern International Jewry which can be made up of enyone that converts to judaism or whose mother is a jew (as opposed to the patriachal system of the Israelites) is ancient Israel of the Bible is simply ridiculous and it is admitteb by the jewish rabbi's that indeed Jews are by majority of Khazar decent hence mainly Turko-mongoloid race of Gomer from Jahpeth, they are indeed Jahpethic and the minority Shemtic line is via Sephardic is from Esau rather than Jacob.

There is simply no connection that can be made with the ancient Israelites and the "Jews" of modern Israel, the "Jews" of modern Israel are a fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus Christ in Rev. 2:9 as 'the those who call themselves 'jews' but do lie and are the Synagogue of Satan'...

All Jews are anti-christ Satan worshippers under the curse of the Hexagram, All of the ancient Israelites became Christian as Jesus came for the lost sheep of israel and He got all that was given to Him, all Israel and all Judah became Christians under the confirmation of new covenant via the blood of Christ, Hebrews 8:8-12.

 

[MahogonySnail]

You're a white fella on a black man's land Cup of Ruin, as am I. You can't really raise the issue of Khazar's not being the original or ancient Israelites, without sounding like a hypocrite.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

You're a white fella on a black man's land Cup of Ruin, as am I. You can't really raise the issue of Khazar's not being the original or ancient Israelites, without sounding like a hypocrite.

LOL........I don't think so 'Snail.

 

[MahogonySnail]

The issue of racial origins of those who are Jewish today is a moot point. Because Judaism is not about race but about religion. Even in the old testament times a person could join God's people even if they were a foreigner.

Isaiah 56

Neither let the foreigner, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying, "Yahweh will surely separate me from his people;" neither let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree."

For thus says Yahweh, "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and hold fast my covenant:

To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial, And a name better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off.


So read Isaiah 56, get yourself an education, and stop spreading your anti-semetic white supremecist trash talk on here.

 

[Ryan1976]

The Israelites deserve to be on that land, it is theirs. The alternative is Muslims and then we have another type of "Iran" or "Iraq" state in the middle east lead by Hezbollah. Besides, what they have is only a part of what God promised them in the bible. It is the land which Abraham dwelt in and was promised to him by God.

If you look at some articles at:
http://www.ariel.org/

by Dr A[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]rnold Fruchtenbaum a Jewish Christian it will change your incorrect perspectives.[/FONT]

Replacement theology is wrong. We need to understand God has not rejected His people or replaced them by Christians - they are under punishment/blindness until the rest of the world is saved. Read Romans 11. God's rejection of Israel is not permanent and complete but temporary and partial. God has not cast away His people. Verse 23 - God shall graft in the natural branches again.

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

If I was American I would hang my head in shame if my country stopped supporting Israel. Many arab countries sided or were with the Nazi's in the war.
The Jews have always been a persecuted minority in arab lands and you should be ashamed to call yourselves Americans with your rhetoric about freedom and justice and liberty if you don't stand for Israel.

Of course I'm not saying that Christians (not necessarily America) shouldn't be supportive of all nations. However, when a country does wrong, the Christians should act. Instead, the protestant Christians have sought to air their voice using American politics. How backwards is that?

Israel is not just kicking Muslims out of the country but also Christians. Christians that have been there since Christ (though they fled around 70 AD but shortly returned). There's a fund raiser at my Church that sends money to Christians that have been "displaced" by the Israeli government. And there isn't a peep out the "christians" but praise for the Israelis.

In regards to replacement theology it's a nuanced topic because we get into time and space. Are all Jews saved or only those in the end that repent? Are all the promises to the Jews only for the Jews and then only some to the Christians? Which ones? This is also where all the "branch" theory folks start chiming in and then add prophecy to boot and it's a mess...

Bible also says something about them being our enemies on account of the gospel. Of course I don't mean we should treat them like military enemies but as those that reject the Lord. In other words, we should love them. Show them what the purest expression of Judaism should look like. Instead, we're paying them to build walls, giving them weapons and completely silent when it comes to the nukes. Doesn't sound like the Christianity that we all inherently know.

 

[thefightinglamb]

I have said before that I don't know what to think about 'Jews' or what people to consider the Jews...and yes, I lean towards what most people would negatively call replacement theology...because I think any Jew that truly worships God can only do it through Jesus Christ...and the ones who don't CANNOT get to God by any other means.

That being said, I do not think your arguments against Zionism make sense based on scripture...though I do not know what to think of ZIonism myself...

The Lord 'DROVE' out nations before the Jews in the promised land...and ordered that every man, woman, and child be slaughtered or else they would become a snare to them...you look at that in today's world and you have the reason why so many CHristian's give way before the wicked, they put up with wickedness in their midst...but anyway, if the Lord had told the Jews to slaughter everyone in the land that He was giving them again as an inheritance, THAN who is man to stand against that? Do you NOT remember what happened to the Jews who refused to enter the promised land after the dessert?

Therefore, perhaps the Lord did give them that land and if so, you cannot claim mercy or being 'more gentile/mor humane/more loving' than God...because the wicked perhaps cannot live in his promised land, and the wicked I am referrring to is anybody who does not worship the true God of heaven and earth, of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Of course I'm not saying that Christians (not necessarily America) shouldn't be supportive of all nations. However, when a country does wrong, the Christians should act. Instead, the protestant Christians have sought to air their voice using American politics. How backwards is that?

Israel is not just kicking Muslims out of the country but also Christians. Christians that have been there since Christ (though they fled around 70 AD but shortly returned). There's a fund raiser at my Church that sends money to Christians that have been "displaced" by the Israeli government. And there isn't a peep out the "christians" but praise for the Israelis.

Understood.

In regards to replacement theology it's a nuanced topic because we get into time and space. Are all Jews saved or only those in the end that repent? Are all the promises to the Jews only for the Jews and then only some to the Christians? Which ones? This is also where all the "branch" theory folks start chiming in and then add prophecy to boot and it's a mess...

It's not that hard to understand once it's explained properly. Recommend
A[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]rnold Fruchtenbaum or similar. [/FONT]I used to believe in replacement theology until I read his works. Then it all made sense.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]

Bible also says something about them being our enemies on account of the gospel. Of course I don't mean we should treat them like military enemies but as those that reject the Lord. In other words, we should love them. Show them what the purest expression of Judaism should look like. Instead, we're paying them to build walls, giving them weapons and completely silent when it comes to the nukes. Doesn't sound like the Christianity that we all inherently know.

Romans 11:28 says,
"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes."

They are enemies for our sakes means that if they never became God's enemy , we gentiles would never have become God's friends. So even them being enemies is to our benefit. It most certainly does not mean that we should treat them as our enemies. In Paul's writings in places he refers to his Israelite brethren and wishes they could be saved. He never talks about them as mortal enemies but considers them to be brethren, of sorts. The second thing it says is they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers/ancestors. So we shouldn't think they are rejected completely, hated, or "anti christ satan worshippers under the curse of a hexagram" as Cup of Ruin said. God loves them just as God loved us in Christ.

So the reason why many Christians support Israel is because the Israelites are our brethren and more like disobedient children to the same Father, temporarily placed to one side for punishment until the fullness of the gentiles come in. They are like the natural born child who rebels, we gentiles are like the adopted child who is faithful (through Christ).

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I have said before that I don't know what to think about 'Jews' or what people to consider the Jews...and yes, I lean towards what most people would negatively call replacement theology...because I think any Jew that truly worships God can only do it through Jesus Christ...and the ones who don't CANNOT get to God by any other means.

That being said, I do not think your arguments against Zionism make sense based on scripture...though I do not know what to think of ZIonism myself...

The Lord 'DROVE' out nations before the Jews in the promised land...and ordered that every man, woman, and child be slaughtered or else they would become a snare to them...you look at that in today's world and you have the reason why so many CHristian's give way before the wicked, they put up with wickedness in their midst...but anyway, if the Lord had told the Jews to slaughter everyone in the land that He was giving them again as an inheritance, THAN who is man to stand against that? Do you NOT remember what happened to the Jews who refused to enter the promised land after the dessert?
.

You are definitely confused on the 'Children of Israel', the 'House of Israel, the 'House of Judah' and the Yehuwdiy (Jews) all four are different, and the Bible names as such as a method of distinction, for example the House of Judah is not the House of Israel and the Jews introduced in II Kings 16:6 are conquered slaves of Judah, if you are a slave or subject of Judah's land than you were called by the dorogatory Chaldee name Yehuwdiy, so whenever in the Bible when the Babylonian Chaldee word for Judean slaves is stated it is translated into English "Jews" - jew has always been a dorogatory term, even taken as an insult, for example 'King of the Jews' is a Roman insult against a true Israelite. Not even the House of Judah are ever called 'Jews' in the Bible only the slaves of the House of judah so when the Judah was taken into captivity in Babylon it is recorded in the Bible that the 'Jews' stayed behind in Judea, because thay were not part of the actual tribe of Judah.

As I said Jews follow a matriachal system which is in keeping with the Caananite Edom tradition of their elders, being the decendants of Esau they were to be the slaves of Jacob, but they have rebelled from their slavery which also fulfills propecy as Esau would through off his yoke and try to usurp Jacob, which he currently has acheived and blindness comes upon Israel for this purpose until the 'Gentiles' or 'lost sheep' of Israel are all found, Gentile meaning genteel, gens, of high noble birth.