Street Preachers At Our Doors

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#21
.
HO THEÓS

Q: Why does the Watchtower Society translate the Word in John 1:1 as a
god in lower case instead of God in upper case?

A: The Watchtower Society's translation is based upon an imaginary
grammatical technicality.

The common Greek word for "god" is theós. When it's modified by the little
Greek definite article ho the Society translates theós in upper case, viz: in
the Society's theological thinking; ho theós pertains to the one true God,
while theós by itself is somewhat flexible, for example John 1:18 and John
20:17 where theós is translated in upper case though it isn't modified by ho.

However, according to Dr. Archibald T. Robertson's Grammar Of The Greek
New Testament, page 767: in regards to nouns in the predicate; the article
is not essential to speech. In other words: when theόs is in the predicate,
ho can be either used, or not used, without making any real difference.

So then; a translator's decision whether to capitalize either of the two theόs
in John1:1 or not to capitalize them, is entirely arbitrary rather than dictated
by a strict rule of Greek grammar.

The Society prefers "a god" because lower case is agreeable with their
opinion of Christ's celestial status.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#22
.
THE FIG TREE

Mark 11:12-13 . .The next day, when they had come out from Bethany, he
became hungry. And from a distance he caught sight of a fig tree that had
leaves, and he went to see whether he would perhaps find something on it.
But, on coming to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season
of figs.

Q: If Jehovah really was in the world as the man Jesus, then why didn't He
know by omniscience that the fig tree would have no fruit? Why was it
necessary for Him to examine it up close in person?

A: Jehovah's conduct in that matter would've been unusual but by no means
uncharacteristic.

In the 11th chapter of Genesis, the people built themselves a tower. Jehovah
came down to see the tower. Now, if Jehovah is omnipresent and
omniscient, then why bother coming down out of heaven to inspect the
tower in person?

In the 18th chapter of Genesis, Jehovah announced to Abraham that He was
on a journey to visit Sodom in order to determine whether the reports He
was hearing about the city were true or not. Again: if Jehovah is
omnipresent and omniscient, why bother coming down out of heaven to visit
Sodom in person?

In the 22nd chapter of Genesis, Jehovah had Abraham offer his son as a
sacrifice made with fire. At the conclusion of the event; a celestial being--
speaking for Jehovah and speaking as Jehovah --said: "Now I do know that
you are God-fearing in that you have not withheld your son, your only one,
from Me."

It goes without saying that Jehovah knows every man's thoughts, and He
also knows the future, viz: nothing we do, say, or think catches Jehovah by
surprise; He sees everything. So then, if Jehovah already knew in advance
that Abraham would offer Isaac, and already knew in advance that Abraham
was God-fearing, then why did He say "now I know"? Shouldn't Jehovah
have already known?

The only sensible answer to those questions, including the question about
the fig tree, is that there is a humanness to God that began subtly unveiling
itself all the way back in the very beginning of the Bible; but the New
Testament is where we see God's humanness on display even more.

John 1:18 . . No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god,
who is in the bosom position with the Father, is the one that has explained
him.

"explained him" is accurate enough but doesn't really say it right-- "revealed
him" is much better.

John 14:7 . . . If you men had known me, you would have known my
Father also; from this moment on you know him and have seen him. Philip
said to him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said
to him: "Have I been with you men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have
not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father also.

Q: Well then, why didn't Jesus use his divine powers to make that tree
produce fruit for him to eat right then and there on the spot instead of
cursing the poor thing?

A: Isn't that similar to the Devil's reasoning in the 4th chapter of Matthew?

The fact of the matter is: Jesus was micro-managed. He cursed that fig tree
in compliance with his Father's wishes to do so.

John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the
will of him that sent me.

John 8:28 . . I do nothing of my own initiative

John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me; He did not abandon me to
myself, because I always do the things pleasing to Him.

John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified

John 14:10 . . Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father, and
the Father is in union with me?
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#23
.
THOMAS' GOD(S)

John 20:28 . . Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"

"God" is from the Greek word theós

Many moons ago; I asked some Watchtower Society missionaries to explain
to me why the Society translated theós in upper case in Thomas' statement
seeing as how in Watchtower theology; only Jehovah should be referred to
with capital letters. Well; they were too inexperienced to explain and my
question left them stumped.

The fact of the matter is: in John 20:28, theós is modified by the Greek
definite article "ho". So by the Society's own rules; its translators had to use
upper case because it is their practice that whenever theós is modified by
the Greek definite article, then the upper case is required.

For argument's sake; let's remove the upper cases and translate the
passage like this:

Thomas said to him: "my lord and my god!"

We could tolerate a lower case lord because that was a common way to
address just about any superior back in those days, whether divine or
otherwise; for example 1Pet 3:6.

However; we would have difficulty with a lower case god because the
passage is possessive. In other words: the apostle Thomas didn't just
declare that Jesus was a god. No, Thomas clearly declared that Jesus was
his god.

The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with Jehovah in the books of
Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy forbids them to possess more
than one god.

"And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying: I am Jehovah your
God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of
slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face." (Ex 20:1-30

"against my face" is a combination of two Hebrew words that essentially
refer to God's competitors. In other words: it is not Jehovah's wishes to
have a market share of His people's affections; no, He'll settle for nothing
less than 100%. (cf. Mark 12:28-30)

If the apostle Thomas was a Torah-trained Jew, then he was fully aware that
possessing any other god but Jehovah would incur the covenant's curse
upon himself.

Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the one who will not put the words of this law in
force by doing them.

The way I see it: the Society has two options. Either the apostle Thomas
knew what he was doing when he addressed Jesus as his god, or he meant
to say something else.

Now, if the apostle Thomas knew what he was doing when he addressed
Jesus as his god, then John Q and Jane Doe JWs need to ask around and find
out why it is that Jesus Christ was the apostle Thomas' god but he isn't the
Watchtower Society's god.

Plus: I would really like to know how it is that the apostle Thomas and the
Watchtower Society are poles apart in their opinions of Christ's divine status
when Thomas actually associated with Christ and was one of his close
personal friends.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#24
.
CHRIST'S GOD

John 20:17 . . Be on your way to my brothers and say to them; "I am
ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God."

Q: If Jesus is God, as classical Christianity claims, then how can he have a
god? Does God worship Himself?

A: I have yet to encounter the language of John 20:17 in reverse, viz: I
have yet to see a passage in the Bible where the Father refers to His son as
"my God".

For simplicity's sake; it helps to think of the true God as a species; viz: if
indeed a true God were to beget a child, He would beget a child of like
species; i.e. a true God would beget a true divine being like Himself because
that's the only kind of offspring that a true God could engender; just as
when a true human begets a child, they beget a child of like species i.e. they
beget a true human being like themselves because that's the only kind of
offspring that a true human can engender.

There is a hierarchy in the divine relationship just as there is a hierarchy in
human relationships. Though all members of a human family are equally
human, they are not all equal in rank and privilege; some are superior and
some are subordinate. (cf. John 14:28, 1Cor 15:28)

Now, we can volley back and forth with JWs, countering each other's verses
with more verses: verse upon verse; but I can just about guarantee that us
and they will both be chasing our tails and getting nowhere unless we
approach the Son's relationship to his Father from a biological perspective;
which is a perspective that just about anybody with even a cursory
knowledge of the birds and the bees can understand with ease.

The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society calls Jesus "the only-begotten son
from a Father" and also "the only-begotten god". Well, don't let that mislead
you. The Society dare not accept Christ's status as God's literal offspring
because the ramifications would force them to revise their theology.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#25
.
LEARNING OBEDIENCE

Heb 5:7-9 . . In the days of his flesh Christ offered up supplications and
also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong
outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. Although
he was a Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered; and after
he had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to
all those obeying him

The "perfection" Jesus Christ obtained by means of his suffering is directly
related to his priesthood rather than his personal conduct.

Heb 5:10 . . Because he has been specifically called by God a high priest
according to the manner of Melchizedek.

In order for a priest to be effective, he has to be capable of empathy.

Heb 5:1-3 . . For every high priest taken from among men is appointed in
behalf of men over the things pertaining to God, that he may offer gifts and
sacrifices for sins. He is able to deal moderately with the ignorant and erring
ones since he also is surrounded with his own weakness, and on its account
he is obliged to make offerings for sins as much for himself as for the
people.

Jesus Christ of course could do no wrong of his own; but he was put through
the wringer so he'd have a taste of what us mere mortals face every day of
our lives.

Heb 4:15 . . For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize
with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like
ourselves, but without sin.

Hence, the purpose of the suffering that the Son endured was for a far
different purpose than the chastisement which the Father's lesser sons are
put through at Heb 12:5-11 since according to 1John 3:9 and Col 2:9 it was,
and it still is, impossible for God's son to ever be unholy, or unrighteous, or
disobedient.

In other words; the Son wasn't obedient by means of training and discipline;
rather, he experienced what it's like to obey as a human being. As the Word
in heaven, obedience is his way of life because according to John 1:1-14, the
Word is a god; but the rest of us are mere mortals. Obedience isn't a piece
of cake for those of us who are only human.

It's one thing to empathize and say you feel your fellow man's pain; but in
order to truly sympathize with his pain; you've got to go through it yourself.
It's exactly that which makes Jesus the perfect choice for high priesthood in
heaven because the things he suffered made him a "merciful" high priest; in
other words: sensitive—an high priest that's truly one of us instead of a
disconnected jurist from another world.

During America's dust bowl era in the 1930's, the Federal Farm Security
Administration sent out an educated young lady named Sonora Babb to
counsel migrant farm workers out west. Nobody trusted her until they found
out she grew up in the so-called No Man's Land of the southern great plains.
Sonora wasn't just another indifferent stuffed-shirt bureaucrat. She was one
of them and it made all the difference in the quality of her rapport with
migrant farm workers.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#26
.
I'm not in the habit of offering unsolicited spiritual counseling on internet
forums; but today I probably should.

Post No.25 addressed Christ's high priesthood. Non-anointed Jehovah's
Witnesses-- a.k.a. the earthly class; viz: the hewers of wood and haulers of
water, the great crowd ---do not have direct access to it, rather, they have
indirect access to Christ's high priesthood via their affiliation with the
Watchtower Society. (See post No.10)

May I suggest to any and/or all JWs hereabout that they take advantage of
whatever degree of access they have for now and speak up candidly and
forthrightly with Christ, asking him if there isn't some way to take advantage
of his high priesthood's services without having to be affiliated with the
Watchtower Society; i.e. as a free moral agent rather than slave to a
hierarchy.

That's a sensible question. I have reason to believe if it's asked in all
honesty and sincerity that Christ will get back to its inquirer with a response.

John 6:37-28 . . Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and the
one that comes to me I will by no means drive away; because I have come
down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.

Heb 4:16 . . Let us, therefore, approach with freeness of speech to the
throne of undeserved kindness, that we may obtain mercy and find
undeserved kindness for help at the right time.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#27
.
THE PARAKLETOS

John 14:16-17 . . I will request the Father and he will give you another
helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot
receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it, because it
remains with you and is in you.

John 14:26 . .The helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my
name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the
things I told you.

John Q and Jane Doe non-anointed Watchtower Society missionaries are
taught to believe that God's spirit is alongside assisting them to identify, and
to understand, the correct interpretations of the Bible. However, the
Society's missionaries are also taught that only a special guild of 144,000
anointed Jehovah's Witnesses actually have the spirit "inside" them rather
than only alongside and that is very serious. Here's why:

Rom 8:9 . .You are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if
God's spirit truly dwells in you.

Seeing as how God's spirit does not truly dwell in John Q and Jane Doe
missionaries, then they are, by default, in harmony with the flesh. That only
makes things worse. Here's why:

Rom 8:5-8 . . For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on
the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of
the spirit. For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the
spirit means life and peace; because the minding of the flesh means enmity
with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it
be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.

The situation is just too ironic for words: John Q and Jane Doe missionaries
displease God, and He displeases them; yet they go door-to-door sincerely
believing themselves Jehovah's friends and allies.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#28
.
THE LAST ADAM

1Cor 15:45a . . The first man Adam became a living soul.

1Cor 15:47 . .The first man is out of the earth and made of dust

Those verses are references to Gen 2:7, which reads like this:

"Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and
to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living
soul."

The Watchtower Society alleges that Jehovah God wasn't directly involved in
creating the first man, rather, His involvement was indirect. According to
them, the actual work was done by the hand of a divine being called the
Word.

"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into
existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into
existence." (John 1:1-3)

Seeing as that's the case; then the breath of life spoken of in Gen 2:7 was
blown into the first man's nostrils by the Word. In all respects then, we owe
the beginning of the original human race to the Word just as much as we
owe it to Jehovah God because both are given credit for its origin.

1Cor 15:45b . .The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

That verse speaks of the origin of yet another human race. This second
human race wasn't made of dust from the ground, nor was it given
consciousness by blowing into its nostrils the breath of life, nor did it come
to be a living soul.

Up to this point; I'm told of only two life-giving spirits in the Bible: the Word
and Jehovah God. So unless there is now three life-giving spirits, I feel safe
to conclude that the last Adam is one of the two; i.e. he's either the Word or
he's Jehovah God. Well; it's easy to show by John 1:14 that the last Adam
and the Word are one and the same person.

"So the Word became flesh and resided among us"

Q: When did this last Adam become a life-giving spirit? At his birth or at his
resurrection?

A: According to 1John 1:1-2, the Word is an everlasting life which, according
to Gen 21:33 and Rom 16:26, is an indestructible category of life that's
impervious to death.

So the Word didn't go out of existence when he came into the world as an
h.sapiens; which means of course that Jesus Christ was a life-giving spirit
right from the moment of his conception rather than at his resurrection.

Q: So you're saying Adam pioneered the original human race; and the Word
pioneered the second human race?

A: Yes.

1Cor 15:47 . .The second man is out of heaven.

The dual nature of Christ's existence is a serious hang-up for the
Watchtower Society due to its faulty premise that it's impossible for
someone to exist as a physical being and a non physical being
simultaneously. But the evidence is very difficult to refute.

It ain't what you know that gets you into trouble.
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

(Mark Twain)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#29
.
THE ANOINTING

1John 2:26-27 . .These things I write you about those who are trying to
mislead you. And as for you, the anointing that you received from him
remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the
anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie,
and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him.

The anointing provides people with some valuable advantages to which
people who lack it of course have no access.

1• Protects people from deception

2• Enables people to grasp Jesus Christ's teachings the way he wants them
grasped

3• Makes it possible for people to remain in union with him.

According to Watchtower Society theology, only 144,000 special Jehovah's
Witnesses have the anointing. There aren't that many living Witnesses who
have the anointing though because when anointed Witnesses die, their
passing doesn't create vacancies; viz: 144,000 is the maximum unless an
anointed JW either apostatizes or is ousted via the process of disfellowship.

What that means is: the vast majority of today's living JWs don't have the
anointing. We're talking about some serious numbers here. Currently, there
are approximately 8.2 million living Witnesses. Even if all 144,000 anointed
Witnesses were alive today, that would leave 8,056,000 JWs roaming the
earth in our day who 1) have no protection from deception, 2) are unable to
grasp Jesus Christ's teachings the way he wants them grasped, and 3) not in
union with him.

Doubtless there are numbers of ordinary Witnesses who sincerely believe
that their association with the Watchtower Society keeps them in union with
Jesus Christ; but according to 1John 2:26-27, union with Jesus Christ isn't
accomplished on the coattails of an organization; it's accomplished by means
of the anointing.

Watchtower Society missionaries sincerely believing themselves in union
with Jesus Christ without the anointing are each themselves "one of those
who are trying to mislead you".
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#30
.
MATTERS OF CONSCIENCE

Some of the Watchtower Society's ethics rub people the wrong way. For
example they don't celebrate birthdays, observe Christmas, participate in
Halloween, serve in the military, nor allow blood transfusions.

Their feelings about special days are protected by the fourteenth chapter of
Romans so it would be extremely unchristian to criticize them on that front.

Their feelings about blood transfusions appear tenable from the passages
below.

Gen 9:3-4 . . Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you.
As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to you. Only flesh with its
soul-- its blood --you must not eat.

Lev 7:26-27 . .You must not eat any blood in any places where you dwell,
whether that of fowl or that of beast. Any soul who eats any blood, that soul
must be cut off from his people.

Lev 17:10-As for any man of the house of Israel or some alien resident
who is residing as an alien in your midst who eats any sort of blood, I shall
certainly set my face against the soul that is eating the blood, and I shall
indeed cut him off from among his people.

Acts 15:19-20 . . Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the
nations who are turning to God, but to write them to abstain . . from blood.

The Society construes those passages to imply that transfusing blood is all
the same as using it for food.

Rather than get into a semantic quarrel with the Society over its
interpretation of those passages; I suggest another tact. And our purpose is
not to win a debate; only to offer a second opinion.

The Jews' sabbath law is very narrow. In point of fact, the covenant that
Moses' people agreed upon with God imposes capital punishment for sabbath
violators. (Ex 31:14-15)

Now, that is very interesting because Jesus broke the sabbath on a number
of occasions, and when doing so based his actions upon the principle that
human life, safety, and welfare trump strict observance of religious law.

One of the best illustrations I've seen of a die-hard legalist was a cartoon
showing a man behind the wheel of his car stopped at a red light while huge
landslide boulders are within seconds of crushing to death him, his family,
and the family dog. While his wife and children shriek in mortal panic, the
legalist calmly points out that he can't move the car until the light turns
green.

Legalists typically refuse to accept the possibility of extenuating
circumstances, which Webster's defines as: to lessen, or to try to lessen, the
seriousness or extent of by making partial excuses; viz: mitigate.

Although it's illegal to run red lights, those boulders rumbling down the hill
to crush the man's family to death unless he moves the car, are an
acceptable excuse to go before the light turns green. In those kinds of
cases, human life, safety, and welfare trump strict conformity to the law.

Compare Ex 1:15-21 where Jewish midwives lied through their teeth in order
to save the lives of little Jewish boys. Did God punish the midwives for the
sin of lying? No, on the contrary; He overlooked their dishonesty and instead
rewarded the midwives' actions with families of their own. In point of fact,
their actions were adjudged as fearing the true God. (Ex 1:21)

Should someone reading this section chance to discuss blood transfusions
with a JW from Christ's sabbath perspective; I urge them to go about it with
the utmost in civility because this is an emotional issue. Should your JW
audience come to the realization that they've made a monstrous mistake,
they will be overwhelmed with guilt, disappointment, and humiliation; not to
mention fear of the organizational tsunami that'll come their way should
they dare to question the Society's stance on blood transfusions.

Col 3:12 . . Accordingly, as God’s chosen ones, holy and loved: clothe
yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of
mind, and mildness.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#32
.
UNAPPROACHABLE LIGHT

POSIT: It is impossible for Jesus Christ to be in heaven as a human being in
the presence of God because 1Tim 6:16 says that the king of all kings dwells
in an unapproachable light, whom "not one of men" has seen or can see.

RESPONSE: The Greek word translated "unapproachable" also means
inaccessible; which right there attests that humanity needs a mediator
between itself and the light to provide them at least an indirect access.

Note that the passage below is misquoted. Watch for the revision.

"There is one God, and one mediator between God and men; an angel:
Christ Michael." (1Tim 2:5)

No, that passage doesn't actually say "an angel" nor does it actually say
"Christ Michael". Here it is for real.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men; a man:
Christ Jesus."

The Greek word for men, as well as the word for man, is derived from
anthropos (anth'-ro-pos) --a common koiné Greek word for human beings in
the New Testament; in other words:

"There is one God, and one mediator between God and anthroópoon; an
ánthroopos: Christ Jesus."

So it's readily seen from a cursory examination of the Greek that the
mediator spoken of in 1Tim 2:5 is a human being rather than an angel.

Seeing as how Christ Jesus is allowed access to the inaccessible light as a
human being, then it's safe to conclude that there has to be something very
unusual about him.

Well; for one thing, his body is no longer that of mortal men. When he went
up to heaven, Christ Jesus' body underwent a miraculous transformation. It's
still human, that we know, but its chemistry is unlike any human body on
Earth. (1Cor 15:50-53)

For another, Christ Jesus is not only human, but also divine (John 1:1, John
1:18, and Col 2:9). That alone would surely be enough to grant him some
special privileges, and it does. For example: the angel Gabriel stands in the
presence of God (Luke 1:19) while Christ Jesus the man is seated. (Col 3:1)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#33
.
UNDESERVED KINDNESS

John 1:14 . . So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we
had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son
from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.

The ancient Greek word from which "undeserved kindness" is derived is
charitos; which itself is derived from charis.

"undeserved kindness" isn't a translation of the word charis; it's the
Watchtower Society's own opinion of what they think that word ought to
mean. It's literal meaning is graciousness.

John Q and Jane Doe Witness are being deprived of viewing some very
pleasant aspects of the only-begotten son's personality by interpreting charis
to mean undeserved kindness because graciousness says some wonderful
things about not only the flesh that the Word became; but also about the
Father from whom the Word came.

To begin with; Webster's defines "graciousness" as; kind, courteous, inclined
to good will, generous, charitable, merciful, altruistic, compassionate,
thoughtful, cordial, affable, genial, sociable, cheerful, warm, sensitive,
considerate, and tactful.

Cordial stresses warmth and heartiness

Affable implies easy approachability and readiness to respond pleasantly to
conversation or requests or proposals

Genial stresses cheerfulness and even joviality

Sociable suggests a genuine liking for the companionship of others

Generous is characterized by a noble or forbearing spirit; viz: magnanimous,
kindly, and liberal in giving

Charitable means full of love for, and goodwill toward, others; viz:
benevolent, tolerant, and lenient.

Altruistic means unselfish regard for, or devotion to, the welfare of others;
viz: a desire to be of service to others for no other reason than it just feels
good to do so.

Tactful indicates a keen sense of what to do, or say, in order to maintain
good relations with others in order to resolve and/or avoid unnecessary
conflict.

Here's a couple of passages from the NWT where the Society's translation
committee had the decency to let charis speak for itself instead of butting in
to tell people what they think it ought to mean.

"Keep on teaching and admonishing one another with psalms, praises to
God, spiritual songs with graciousness" (Col 3:16)

"Let your utterance be always with graciousness." (Col 4:6)

NOTE: The claim that the only begotten son is somehow undeserving of
kindness is of course 110% false. Worthiness is in every fiber of Christ's
being. (Dan 7:13-14, Phil 2:8-11, Rev 5:1-14, Rev 19:11)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#34
.
SHEOL / HADES

Jonah 1:17 . . Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, so that
Jonah came to be in the inward parts of the fish three days and three nights.

Q: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

A: Yes. (Jonah 2:1)

Q: The whole time?

A: No.

At some point in his nautical adventure Jonah went to a place called sheol
(Jonah 2:2) which he sited at the bottoms of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

Well; the bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located down deep in the Earth. So, the only way that Jonah could
possibly be at the bottoms of the mountains while in the belly of a fish at the
same time was for the man and his body to part company and go their
separate ways.

Christ paralleled his own afterlife journey with Jonah's.

Matt 12:39-40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the
heart of the Earth.

Now when you think about it; Jesus' corpse was never in the heart of the
Earth. It wasn't even in the Earth's soil. His corpse was laid to rest on the
surface of the Earth in a rock-hewn tomb.

So, the only way that Jesus could possibly be in a tomb on the surface of
that Earth while in the heart of the Earth at the same time; was for the man
and his body to part company and go their separate ways.

Just before being cast ashore, Jonah prayed thus:

Jonah 2:6 . . But out of the pit you proceeded to bring up my life, O
Jehovah my God.

The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse is the very same word for pit in Ps
16:8-10; which Acts 2:25-31 verifies is speaking of putrefaction. In other
words: Jonah 2:6 tells of the prophet's flesh just as Ps 16:8-10 and Acts
2:25-31 tell of Christ's flesh.

"My own flesh will reside in security. For you will not leave my soul in Sheol.
You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit." (Ps 16:9-10)

"you will not leave my soul in Sheol" speaks of the bottoms of the
mountains, a.k.a. the heart of the Earth.

"You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit" speaks of putrefaction; viz:
Christ's flesh was restored to life before nature's processes could dissolve it.

Q: What does the story of Jonah have to do with Jehovah's Witnesses?

A: JWs are taught to believe that human life is entirely physical; viz: when
people die they cease to exist. Well; were that belief a reality; then Jesus
would've ceased to exist when he passed away on the cross.

Jonah's experience is handy for illustrating Jesus' experience; viz: if Jonah
existed at the bottoms so the mountains while his flesh was deceased in the
tummy of a fish, then Jesus existed in the heart of the Earth while his flesh
was deceased in a tomb.

Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites and also a sign to Jesus' generation (Matt
13:39-40, Luke 11:29-30). The word "sign" is translated from a koiné Greek
word that's sometimes used in the gospels to indicate miracles.

Had Jonah stayed alive in the fish's tummy, that would not be the kind of
sign that Jesus had in mind. He needed a miraculous event that would
adequately depict his own; the reason being that Jesus' flesh was on track to
be returned to life. (John 2:19-21)

Jonah's experience, coupled with Ps 16:8-10, Acts 2:25-31, and Matt 12:39
40 proves that Jesus continued to exist out of body when he passed away;
and if he and Jonah did, then there's reason to expect that everyone else
does too.

My only question is: How was Jonah a sign to the people of Nineveh? The
city was located up around northern Iraq; approximately 400 miles from the
Mediterranean Sea. It's my guess travelers on their way to Nineveh
witnessed Jonah exit the fish, and upon arrival in the city spread their
amazing tale far and wide. If so, that would help explain why the people
took Jonah's message to heart instead of mocking him as just another kooky
itinerant preacher.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#35
.
THE BREATH OF LIFE

Human existence is thought by some to be entirely organic. It's not. There's
a non-organic element to human existence called the breath of life.

Gen 2:7a . . And Jehovah God formed a man's body

Mankind's creator didn't give birth to humanity like women give birth to
children, or baby chicks hatch from eggs; no, humans aren't God's biological
progeny --humans are God's handiwork like the glass products
manufactured by craftsmen in Murano; where they make things from scratch
using mostly sand for their base material.

Gen 2:7b . . from the dust of the ground

The Hebrew word for "dust" is a bit ambiguous. It essentially refers to
powder, but can also be translated clay, earth, mud, mortar, ashes, and/or
rubbish.

Gen 2:7c . . and breathed into it the breath of life

The word for "breathed" is from naphach (naw-fakh') and means; among
other things: to kindle; which Webster's defines as (1) to start (a fire)
burning: light, (2) to stir up: arouse, (3) to bring into being: start, and (4)
to animate.

Naphach is sort of like what Indy Car drivers do when they're given the
order to start their engines-- they light 'em up, so to speak: for example:

"What has come into existence by means of him was life, and the life was
the light of men." (John 1:3-4)

The word for "breath" is neshamah (nesh-aw-maw') which means: a puff.
Neshamah is a bit ambiguous and has been variously translated air, soul,
spirit, blast, and inspiration.

What we're looking at here is a kind of artificial respiration, but not the
regular kind because it doesn't do a bit of good pumping air into the lungs of
a corpse. They won't come alive like that; it's been tried.

However, there's evidence in the Bible, starting in Genesis, indicating that
it's possible to pump life into a corpse: in point of fact into anything, even
stones (Matt 3:9, Luke 19:40).

Gen 2:7c . . and man became a living soul.

The Hebrew word for "soul" is nephesh (neh'-fesh). Its first appearance is at
Gen 1:20-21 in reference to aqua creatures and winged creatures; again at
Gen 1:24 as terra creatures; viz: cattle, creepy crawlies, and wild beasts;
and again in Gen 2:7 as the human creature.

Creatures within whom is the breath of life are perishable (e.g. Gen 7:21
22) but I have yet to encounter a passage in the Bible clearly stating that
the breath of life itself is perishable. In point of fact, I think it is very easy to
prove that the human creature's breath of life is not only a permanent
feature of their existence; but also prevents them from going out of
existence.

For example: when Abraham, Lazarus, and the rich man of Luke 16:19-31
passed away, they all left the organic portion of their existence behind-- viz:
their bodies --yet on the other side they are perceptive; fully conscious, and
fully sentient.

I don't know for sure in what form they exist on the other side, but one
thing I do know is that they have not ceased to exist as individuals, nor have
they lost their identities-- Abraham is still Abraham, Lazarus is still Lazarus,
and the rich man is still the rich man; and that has to be because they
retained their breath of life when they crossed over to the other side.

For example; in Watchtower theology, Michael the arch angel had to die in
order to become a human being. Now, the amazing part of the story is that
Michael didn't go completely out of existence when he died.

"He had to become a perfect man and yet not lose his continuity of life. His
life-force was not to be extinguished but would be transferred to the ovum
of the virgin girl, Mary." (Watchtower magazine, 2-15-82, p.7)

So, if it's possible for God to transfer the life force of a dead spirit being into
a human body in order to preserve its continuity of life, then I see no reason
to question whether God can do the very same thing in reverse; viz: transfer
the life force of dead human beings into spirit bodies; thus preserving their
continuity of life.

Heb 12:22-23 . . But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the
living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, in general assembly,
and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the
heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones
who have been made perfect,

The words "spiritual lives" are a construed interpretation of the Greek word
pneúmasi which actually means spirits rather than spiritual lives; and is so
translated in something like 32 verses in regular Bibles, including, but not
limited to, the spirits in prison. (1Pet 3:19)

NOTE: The Watchtower Society's Bible contains quite a few places where
Greek words are construed rather than translated. For example Rev 16:13
14 where pneúmasi is said to be "inspired expressions" instead of spirits.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#36
.
OF MICE AND MEN

Luke 12:16-20 . . He spoke an illustration to them, saying: The land of a
certain rich man produced well. Consequently he began reasoning within
himself, saying, "What shall I do, now that I have nowhere to gather my
crops?"

. . . So he said, "I will do this: I will tear down my storehouses and build
bigger ones, and there I will gather all my grain and all my good things; and
I will say to my soul: Soul, you have many good things laid up for many
years; take your ease, eat, drink, enjoy yourself."

. . . But God said to him, "Unreasonable one; this night they are demanding
your soul from you. Who, then, is to have the things you stored up?"

I suppose there's any number of ways to interpret that illustration; but I am
impressed by the fact that man's plan failed to take into account the fragility
of life.

Ps 146:3-4 . . Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling
man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his
ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.

The Hebrew word for "thoughts" in that passage is 'eshtonah (esh-to naw')
which means: thinking.

Unfortunately, Ps 146:4 is the only place in the entire Old Testament where
'eshtonah appears so we can't compare its uses in other contexts.

According to Webster's the word "thinking" is ambiguous with quite a variety
of meanings to choose from; including, but not limited to: concerns,
anticipations, conceptions, opinions, imaginations, visualizations, ideas,
epiphanies, plans, schemes, fantasies, arguments, aspirations, deliberations,
and the like.

For the rich man in Jesus' illustration; I would choose ideas, plans, and
schemes.

For example: consider all those people who perished in the World Trade
Center, and in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake.
None of them woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on
the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but
before the day ended; whatever was on their itinerary lost its importance--
their priorities went right out the window and became no more significant
than green cheese on the moon.

All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their
schemes, their problems, their ambitions, their loves, and their aspirations
went right down the tubes as they were suddenly confronted with a whole
new reality to cope with.

So then, an alternative to the Watchtower Society's interpretation is that
people don't cease to exist when they die nor do their cognitive processes
stop working; no, Ps 146:4 only means that whatever was on their minds
before they passed away is now null and void.

Take for example Michael Jackson. While working on a new world tour,
Jackson died in his sleep. As a result; his tour wrapped on the spot.

When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison, he quit drinking, and
began going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½
years all went well. His parole officer was happy, and he was on track and
getting good grades. My nephew's future looked assured. And then on the
morning of Sept 25, 2015, he dropped dead to the floor of natural causes.

My nephew's passing was a terrible disappointment to everybody; but
actually we all kind of expected it. He was grossly overweight, had high
blood pressure and high cholesterol, rarely exercised, and smoked. But the
point is; my nephew's dream ended just as abruptly as flipping a light
switch. And all of our hopes for his success ended the same way.

Death is the mortal enemy of human ambitions. It often casts its long
shadow when they set about planning their lives. The Scottish poet Robert
Burns noticed that life sometimes throws a curve ball that makes all your
careful preparations strike out instead of getting you on base.

He was out one day plowing in the field and uprooted a mouse's
underground nest who was all set for the oncoming winter. The mouse had
picked a fallow field as the site for its winter retreat thinking it would be safe
and snug; unmolested during the cold. But it didn't (or maybe we should say
it couldn't) know the workings of powers higher than itself-- in this case,
farmers and their machinery.

Mousie, you are not alone in proving foresight may be vain.
The best laid schemes of mice and men go often askew,
And leave us naught but grief and pain for promised joy.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#37
.
GHOST RIDERS IN THE SKY

1Thess 4:16-17 . .The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a
commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and
those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

I'm going to revise a portion of that passage slightly in order to bring out a
point.

"with the archangel's voice"

No, it doesn't say the archangel's voice, rather, it says "an" archangel's
voice; so I think it would be a mistake to assume that 1Thss 4:16-17 is
referring to the archangel Michael spoken of in Jude 1:9 when, in point of
fact, according to Dan 10:13, there's more than one archangel.

Archangels are very high ranking, but there is another personage even
higher in rank than they spoken of in Josh 5:13-15; a being whose rank is
described as captain of Jehovah's forces; and in the captain's presence,
Joshua was required to remove his shoes; same as Moses at the burning
bush. (Ex 3:1-5)

NOTE: The title "Son of Man" in Matt 24:30-31 alerts us to the fact that the
Lord himself spoken of in 1Thess 4:16-17 will be a human being rather than
a spirit being.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#38
.
SOLOMON vs JESUS

2Tim 3:16 . . All scripture is inspired of God

Followers of Islam claim that the entirety of the Koran was given to
Muhammad word for word via voice dictation; but Christians dare not make
the same claim for the Old Testament, viz: though it's all inspired, it was not
all given word for word via voice dictation.

Bible students are often baffled as to why Solomon's remarks in the book of
Ecclesiastes sometimes contradict Jesus' teachings in the New Testament.
Well; the answer to that is actually pretty simple.

Solomon wasn't inspired to record his observations from the perspective of
an enlightened man who's privy to knowledge beyond the scope of empirical
evidence and human experience; rather, from the perspective of a man
under the sun; viz: a down to earth thinking man whose perception of reality
is moderated by what he can see for himself going on around him in the
physical universe; which of course results in an evaluation of life on earth as
seen from the earth rather than an evaluation of life on earth as seen from
heaven.

In other words: Ecclesiastes is one man's world view-- his personal
philosophy of life --rather than a book of either history, revelation, or
prophecy; and it's loaded with pessimism; which is basically a mindset
inclined to dwell on the negative in human experience rather than the
positive. For example:

"You only go around once, so do it with all the gusto you can get!"

That was a Schlitz beer advertisement some years ago. It's worldly wisdom
thru and thru rather than heavenly. Compare it to a couple of Solomon's
remarks:

Ecc 9:5 . . The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead,
they are conscious of nothing at all

Ecc 9:10 . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for
there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place
to which you are going.

That's the same wisdom as Schlitz beer wisdom.

Solomon was a very wise man; in point of fact, he was the brightest
intellectual of his day. But Solomon's knowledge and experience were
limited. He didn't know everything there is to know, nor had he seen
everything there is to see, nor been everywhere there is to go.

Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
with this generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of
the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than
Solomon is here.

In other words; Jesus' wisdom trumps Solomon's.

John 1:1-3 . . In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. All things
came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing
came into existence.

Col 2:3 . . Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and
of knowledge.

And Jesus' comes highly recommended too.

Matt 12:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to
him.

So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out
of step with Jesus' teachings in the New Testament, my unsolicited spiritual
counseling is: go with "my Son".

John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no
means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#39
.
CHRIST'S PARABLES

Fiction can be defined as stories about people, places, and events that,
though untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people, places, and events that are
not only untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a wooden boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while
a story about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio
and the autistic boy is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while
the other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly
be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- banquets,
stewards, weddings, farmers sowing seed, pearls, lost sheep, fish nets,
women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares among the
wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the blind, et al.

Now; if Christ had told one that alleged the moon was made of green
cheese; we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was
fantasy; but none of them are like that. No; there's nothing out of the
ordinary in his parables. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction;
but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from the normal
round of human experience that they have no basis in reality whatsoever.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life
man; the father of the Hebrew people, held in very high esteem by at least
three of the world's prominent religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
And he's also the friend of God (Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus
Christ-- a man famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity
--would say something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially
about one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
managed.

John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.

John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as
the Father taught me.

John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

So, by alleging that Luke 16:19-31 is fiction/fantasy, the parable
theory slanders God by insinuating that He's a person of marginal integrity
who can't be trusted to tell the truth about people, not even about His own
friends, which is ridiculous seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that
God cannot lie.

God's impeccable character is what makes that narrative all the more
terrifying. Unless somebody can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that
Christ's Father is a tale-spinner; I pretty much have to assume the narrative
was drawn from real-life; and if not drawn from real life, then at least based
upon real life.

In other words: there really is an afterlife place of conscious suffering where
people endure unbearable anxiety worrying their loved ones are on a road to
where they are and there is no way to warn them; similar to the survivors of
the Titanic watching their loved ones go to Davy Jones while utterly helpless
to do anything about it.

People for whom I feel the most pity are parents that brought up their
children in a religion whose pot at the end of the rainbow is filled with
molten sulfur instead of gold. How do people bear up under something like
that on their conscience?
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,182
972
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#40
.
AT THE DOOR

Should you decide to go head to head with Watchtower Society missionaries,
here's some useful tips passed on by Pete, the ex Jehovah's Witness
mentioned at the first.

1• Round up a copy of the Watchtower Society's New World Translation of
the Bible, and its Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.
Sometimes these are available in thrift stores like Good Will and Salvation
Army. Both are available online from amazon dot com.

For some useful insights into a variety of Jehovah's Witness teachings, the
little brown book titled Reasoning From The Scriptures is a must-have. It's
available online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead
of another book by the same name authored by a different agency.

2• Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever
assume they are your friends because first and foremost their primary
interest is in making you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You
can be courteous and you can be civil, but it's highly recommended that you
not let them into your life.

3• Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and
discuss it with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the
meeting.

4• Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity
begin introducing your own questions; thus denying them complete control
of the conversation.

5• Do not debate. You're not a salesman pushing a product, nor a recruiter,
nor a candidate running for an elected office: you're not on a quota, you're
not out to win anything, nor are you required to win-- you're a herald; viz: a
messenger. Your information is best presented as a second opinion for them
to think about; and that's all. No hammering and no pressuring.

The goal is to show missionaries that the Society's isn't the only expert
opinion out there. In other words: the Watchtower Society's interpretations
aren't the only option; nor are theirs eo ipso the right interpretations just
because the Governing Body says so.

6• Avoid getting embroiled in trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas,
Christmas trees, the design and construction of the wooden device upon
which Christ was crucified, saluting the flag, service in the military, and that
sort of thing. There are much bigger fish to fry than those.

The No.1 issue on their minds when they come to your door will likely be
Jehovah's kingdom, in particular, the portion of His kingdom to be on Earth.

7• Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have
to repeat yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise
your voice. Do not let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent,
nor get distracted and/or turn their attention elsewhere while you're
speaking. If they start digging through their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering
with their tablets, or looking up a reference; call them on it because there is no
use in speaking when their minds are elsewhere occupied.

8• Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but
firmly, insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.

9• Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more
knowledgeable. When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely
for their time and then ask them to leave and come back when they have
the information. Do not let them stay and start a new topic of their own.

10• Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as a
logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character,
motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons
associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the
argument itself.

11• These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute standard
Christian doctrines, so it's very important to show them the Bible not in
ways they've already seen, but in ways they've never imagined.
_