Child poverty

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#61
This is too general to respobd to with one answer there are lots of reasons.

I read in in the US real income for the poorest part of tge population has gone up by $8000 in real dollars since 1970. That sounds good. It has gone up for the rich. That fits with Rawlsian ethics.
I dont think that even means anything because of inflation.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#63
I assumed 'real' means inflation-adjusted as it does in finance.
oh ok well I dont know what rawlsian ethics are.
But I do know people can make statistics mean anything. according to the book I read there isnt enough research or records to say conclusively whether times are better or worse for children, or what impact poverty has on their later lives.

I do know that if you are abused or neglected when you are in your first years of life, you are not going to grow as well as other children who had everything they needed. Having a good start in life does makes a difference, but think it varies even amongst families, for example, the firstborn might be better off than the second or third born. Or vice versa. what age children are when parents abandon them or split up also affects their development.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,807
1,043
113
#64
One aspect of Rawls' view of the subject is that is okay to live in a society where the rich get a lot richer if the bottom rung are somewhat better off for it. I would imagine a college education could have gone up by more than $8000 'real' since 1970 too.

I do not know that kids tend to go hungry more now than in the past, at least in the developed world, but divorce has gone up. It seems like society is getting more wicked when it comes to porn and homosexuality. I would notbe surprised if sexual abuse is on the rise.
 
Dec 23, 2019
87
56
18
godfoundme.weebly.com
#65
While in some cases poverty could be the result of personal choices, sometimes it's due to sociological, institutional, political, or uncontrolled reasons or circumstances. If you haven't read it, I remember Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich was pretty interesting. It was about the working poor in America and some reasons why they might have trouble making ends meet. A person can be working full time or even 2 part time jobs and not have enough for rent, food, etc. A child could have come from a well-off middle class family only to suddenly be thrown into poverty when their dad is laid off. The economic recession caused many families to lose their homes. Outsourcing jobs to other countries has also shut down many factories here resulting in many layoffs and sudden poverty. Whole towns have been abandoned when they used to be thriving. Corporate and political greed and corruption exists. Look up the Flint Michigan water crisis where people endured lead poisoned drinking water just because of a city's greed.

Poverty is complicated and there are many reasons for it individually, locally, nationally, and globally. The Bible says how we should respond. God says to care for the poor, orphans, and widows. Deuteronomy 15:7-11 is about the poor and says, "there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, you shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy, and to the poor in your land." In those days, God commanded people with fields and vineyards not to harvest everything but to leave some for the soujouner, fatherless , and widows (Deuteronomy 24:17-21). Today we could volunteer and contribute to food banks, homeless shelters, vote for more efficient policies to help people in poverty, or even buy a hungry person you see on a street corner a meal. Don't tell your brother to go in peace, be warm and well-fed but not give them what they need (James 2:16). When people are hungry, thirsty, sick, unclothed, in prison, strangers etc we are to attend to their needs. Whatever you do (or do not do) "for the least of these" you do (or don't do) for Jesus (see Matthew 25:31-46). He then rightly judges and separates the goats and sheep. We will all be held accountable for our own actions. Don't bury the talents God gave you to use (see Matthew 25:14-30). We are to be good stewards of the things God has given us. Share and don't just store up goods for yourself like the foolish man who unknowingly was going to die that night (Luke 12:13-21).

Remember the parable about the hired men who worked from dawn complaining that the ones hired in the evening for paid the same wages as them (see Matthew 20:1-16)? The full-day workers were mad and wanted more than the denarius they'd agreed to, but he said he had the right to do what he wanted with his own money. God knows we humans often look for things to be "fair" with earthly eyes , but His ways are higher. God sees and knows everything and everyone. The last shall be first, whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and where your treasure is there will your heart be also. If you have little, God values even the little the poor widow gave, but expects more from the rich who only give a little from their surplus. "For the love of money is the root of all evil" (1 Timothy 6:10).
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#66
I often wonder if the whole mortgage system is geared towards those who have land and those who havent. I also find it quite sad that people dont live in multigenerational homes. the nuclear suburban family home cant really sustain itself when children move out and start their own families because they arent large enough or able to be subdivided so families can live near each other. Instead what happens is people just sell and buy and flip properties. The land isnt really given any value in itself, its just sold to the highest bidder.

An inheritance is given, its never bought nor sold. But it seems many well off boomers are just spending their kids inheritance, and they arent even thinking of the welfare of the next generation, who are going to be in huge debt. While that is the big picture and not much people can do about it, as everyone has their own lot in life and has to make do with what they have got, some arent even given anything or its stolen from them which is really hard.

Nz had a very good welfare system for the post war boomer generation up until the 1980s when it was slowly dismantled. People were pretty much taken care of by the govt from cradle to grave, by virtue of just being born in the country.
Now its user pays in many aspects of life, and everyone has to make their own way. The concept of sharing and community is lost on many people.

Just my thoughts. I think if you happen to be well off, be a blessing and share as much as you can, dont hoard stuff.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#67
i finished reading the book on child poverty in nz.

Just wanted to get my thoughts together on this after reading it.

The book suggested a few things but I found it actually a bit wishy washy on defining exactly what child poverty was.

the living wage is apparently based upon what you could live on one income if you had 2.5 children ie. an average family but that is based on averages, not reality, when families come in all shapes and sizes.

The other thing was to improve the economy so people had more steady jobs.

in times of recession, children are adversely affected. then it was suggested that there be a universal income for children, like how theres a superannuation for everyone aged 65 or older regardless of their income.

I dont know how that could work, or where that money would come from as taxpayers are already supporting the older population, which is much bigger than the current working population, the debt for that is just passed on to the workers.

the other thing was to make the tax system fairer and more equitable, currently its penalises poor people and gives to the rich. when it should be the other way round.

oh one more thing have a dedicated minstry for children, although I thought we already had one (used to be called CYFS.) although that seems to be only for children who are being made wards of the state. the authors seem to think wealthy children with two parents live in proverty when its just they cant afford a computer one year or shoes. maybe they went to a school where there were some really well off children and they were relatively poorer. well you are always going to get that where ever you go. If everyone is poor then nobody feels richer than anyone else I guess.
i finished reading the book on child poverty in nz.

Just wanted to get my thoughts together on this after reading it.

The book suggested a few things but I found it actually a bit wishy washy on defining exactly what child poverty was.

the living wage is apparently based upon what you could live on one income if you had 2.5 children ie. an average family but that is based on averages, not reality, when families come in all shapes and sizes.

The other thing was to improve the economy so people had more steady jobs.

in times of recession, children are adversely affected. then it was suggested that there be a universal income for children, like how theres a superannuation for everyone aged 65 or older regardless of their income.

I dont know how that could work, or where that money would come from as taxpayers are already supporting the older population, which is much bigger than the current working population, the debt for that is just passed on to the workers.

the other thing was to make the tax system fairer and more equitable, currently its penalises poor people and gives to the rich. when it should be the other way round.

oh one more thing have a dedicated minstry for children, although I thought we already had one (used to be called CYFS.) although that seems to be only for children who are being made wards of the state. the authors seem to think wealthy children with two parents live in proverty when its just they cant afford a computer one year or shoes. maybe they went to a school where there were some really well off children and they were relatively poorer. well you are always going to get that where ever you go. If everyone is poor then nobody feels richer than anyone else I guess.

We should always strive to mister to the poor. Given the heart of Jesus we are compelled to do so.With that being said we should always remember there will always be those who are poor we cannot reach. The poor are always destined to be with us. The point here being that we should always be at peace with ourselves knowing that our ministry comes from the heart of the Master and with this ministry comes the opportunity to ministry. Therefore we must not let the thought of those who we cannot reach deter us from those we can reach. Its a heart wrenching thought knowing that no matter how determined you are children will go to bed hungry tonight. I know because I was one of these. There will come a time when hunger will be no more until that time comes we must be determined to take advantage of the opportunity Christ brings our way to give bread to those who are hungry.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#68
I was thinking on this lately how some rich people live in this bubble just completely unaware how those across the tracks live...its like 'how the other half live' but in reverse.

This brought home to me because a lot of people in govt, supposedly reperesenting the people, seem unaware that not everyone has a device for online learning, because schools are saying well if we close everyone has to learn online.

and not everyone has access to books either. which is why we have public libraries. In libraries we were well aware that the new technology was going to cost a lot to set up and get people using, that there would be a thing called 'the digital divide' between rich and poor.

People that are well off kind of assume that everyone is just going to learn online when, for the most part, children actually associate technology with video games rather than learning. video games are actually rather expesnive but some wont think anything of dropping $100 bucks on the latest game.

anyway. whats been happening is people are looking for low tech things to do for those who dont have a lot of resources. for many families they are paying week by week to afford those smart tvs. and thats the only kind of digital activity that they have in their living rooms.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,125
1,588
113
#69
Maybe they understand this in Kentucky. My mom is a teacher and they are offering school work online but also making hard copy packets for children who do not have access to the internet, and delivering it as well as school lunches to those who are in need.

Not sure if they are doing this elsewhere, but that is what is happening in KY, anyhow.
I was thinking on this lately how some rich people live in this bubble just completely unaware how those across the tracks live...its like 'how the other half live' but in reverse.

This brought home to me because a lot of people in govt, supposedly reperesenting the people, seem unaware that not everyone has a device for online learning, because schools are saying well if we close everyone has to learn online.

and not everyone has access to books either. which is why we have public libraries. In libraries we were well aware that the new technology was going to cost a lot to set up and get people using, that there would be a thing called 'the digital divide' between rich and poor.

People that are well off kind of assume that everyone is just going to learn online when, for the most part, children actually associate technology with video games rather than learning. video games are actually rather expesnive but some wont think anything of dropping $100 bucks on the latest game.

anyway. whats been happening is people are looking for low tech things to do for those who dont have a lot of resources. for many families they are paying week by week to afford those smart tvs. and thats the only kind of digital activity that they have in their living rooms.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,202
909
113
#70
I was thinking on this lately how some rich people live in this bubble just completely unaware how those across the tracks live...its like 'how the other half live' but in reverse.

This brought home to me because a lot of people in govt, supposedly reperesenting the people, seem unaware that not everyone has a device for online learning, because schools are saying well if we close everyone has to learn online.

and not everyone has access to books either. which is why we have public libraries. In libraries we were well aware that the new technology was going to cost a lot to set up and get people using, that there would be a thing called 'the digital divide' between rich and poor.

People that are well off kind of assume that everyone is just going to learn online when, for the most part, children actually associate technology with video games rather than learning. video games are actually rather expesnive but some wont think anything of dropping $100 bucks on the latest game.

anyway. whats been happening is people are looking for low tech things to do for those who dont have a lot of resources. for many families they are paying week by week to afford those smart tvs. and thats the only kind of digital activity that they have in their living rooms.
My school district provides every student a tablet that has all books required for the school year. Each tablet connects to school's web site, where students access all homework, classwork, and test. They started this about 10 years ago.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#71
My school district provides every student a tablet that has all books required for the school year. Each tablet connects to school's web site, where students access all homework, classwork, and test. They started this about 10 years ago.
and how rich is your school district? How much fees do you pay each year?

do they provide stationery as well? we have to pay for ours. there are no free pens or pencils.
 

Mikhal

Active member
Nov 15, 2019
166
119
43
47
#72
Depends on the Demographic. To say Parents starve their children deliberately, if they live in a 3rd world country is ridiculous.
GOD has blessed me with the opportunity to help further his kingdom on missions in such places and my experience is that, if parents have an opportunity to feed their children, they jump on it.
GOD has me working on a refugee mission project right now, which will allow families an opportunity to work to feed, house and finance themselves until they get established (Down side is, they will have to listen to me preach 😂😂😂).
If all Christians came together IN CHRIST, living by GODs word, we could destroy poverty.
Just my 2 cents 😊❤... Peace and Love.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,202
909
113
#73
and how rich is your school district? How much fees do you pay each year?

do they provide stationery as well? we have to pay for ours. there are no free pens or pencils.
We're not a rich school system at all. We found that we could save enough on electronic school books to provide the tablets. Infrastructure for the system was developed over a period of six years, using public and private grants. Tablet's use touch screens, so no paper and pencils are needed.

Great side effect. No backpacks.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#74
but do your children actually learn how to write with a pen or pencil. How old are they or are you talking secondary education?


We have a different system in nz where rich schools get funded privately and poorer schools get bulk funded by the govt, but I dont think any computer companies actually fund the distribution of tablets or chromebooks. also, the stationery providers dont grant the schools anything unless they buy from them.

some schools need to raise funds and they do it by using their road frontage for advertising billboards.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#75
wow no backpacks. also in nz you need to bring your own lunch. Lunch is not provided.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,202
909
113
#76
but do your children actually learn how to write with a pen or pencil. How old are they or are you talking secondary education?


We have a different system in nz where rich schools get funded privately and poorer schools get bulk funded by the govt, but I dont think any computer companies actually fund the distribution of tablets or chromebooks. also, the stationery providers dont grant the schools anything unless they buy from them.

some schools need to raise funds and they do it by using their road frontage for advertising billboards.
Why doesn't your country place more emphasis on education?

Our children learn to write with pens using tablets. They also learn keyboarding on tablets. Most of them are proficient keyboarders when they enter kindergarten.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,202
909
113
#77
wow no backpacks. also in nz you need to bring your own lunch. Lunch is not provided.
All of our students are provided free breakfast, and most are provided free lunch. Lunch price is based on family income. Those who can afford the price of lunch, pay for it weekly or monthly.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#78
I dont know sorry education just isnt given a high priority here, people would much rather play sports.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,886
4,592
113
#79
we are a backwards country sorry. our infrastructure is way behind others and we have a really high youth suicide rate. I dont know why but it could be 'tall poppy syndrome' I dont know. the culture is its cool to be dumb. and stupid to be smart. Yea makes no sense.
 

Mikhal

Active member
Nov 15, 2019
166
119
43
47
#80
we are a backwards country sorry. our infrastructure is way behind others and we have a really high youth suicide rate. I dont know why but it could be 'tall poppy syndrome' I dont know. the culture is its cool to be dumb. and stupid to be smart. Yea makes no sense.
Sounds very much like the U.S., to be honest.