Religion and Morality = Political Prosperity

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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,792
3,364
113
#1
Some quotes will needs expanding to fully read in context.

Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens.

The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

Washington's Farewell Address, 1796

https://www.mountvernon.org/education/primary-sources-2/article/washingtons-farewell-address-1796
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During Washington's farewell address in 1796 he could see the ending results of the French Revolution that was becoming the aftermath of thevenlightenment ideals of secularism and liberalism. The people began to hate Christianity in total due to Roman Catholic corruption in the church and began to exile and kill anyone of the faith many without trials. It has been estimated 40,000 people died. The Government even going as far as to change the calendar to not be set on Christian beliefs.

But instead of suffocating the corruption they dropped Christianity all together for pagan or secular practices.

The French Revolution 5 May 1789 – 9 November 1799
  • Establishment of a secular and democratic republic that became increasingly authoritarian and militaristic
  • Radical social change based on liberalism and other Enlightenment principles
  • Rise of Napoleon Bonaparte ( back into tyranny)
1280px-Anonymous_-_Prise_de_la_Bastille.jpg

It ultimately led to a irreligious world under a tyrannical government. The biggest lesson to learn wasn't to completely abolish religion especially the Christian religion where morality is ultimately based.

"And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion
. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
John Adams equally agreed.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
-President John Adams to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, 1798.
Washington even makes the bold statement that it would be unpatriotic to try and demolish such pillars of political prosperity.

Noah Webster wrote in A Collection of Papers on Political, Literary and Moral Subjects (New York, 1843):

"The virtue which is necessary to preserve a just administration and render a government stable, is Christian virtue, which consists in the uniform practice of moral and religious duties, in conformity with the laws of both of God and man."
As Tacitus once predicted the more corrupt the people become in absence of morality. So begins the limiting of freedoms by Government to first control the immorality. But indirectly over time the corruption begins to take over the Government as well. And the people then begin to feel the full weight of their rebellion as tyranny begins to take away the last remaining freedoms.

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Aristotle also once warned on the affects of tolerance and apathy.

Tolerance is in the headlines all around us. We are being asked to tolerate everyone's beliefs except the Christians beliefs. Equality this and that in order to push religion into illegality.

Plato once explained the rise and fall of Civilizations.

"Democracy ... of which the insatiable desire brings her to dissolution ..."

"Their leaders deprive the rich of their estates and distribute them among the people; at the same time taking care to reserve the larger part for themselves ...

And the persons whose property is taken from them are compelled to defend themselves before the people as they best can ..."

"Insatiable desire ... and ... neglect ... introduces the change in democracy, which occasions a demand for tyranny."
Loss of virtue and the unrestrained desires that bring forth the apathy of the mind. No boundaries begins to darken the minds and the emotions become desensitized.

Jeremiah 6:15 (NIV)
15 Are they ashamed of their detestable conduct?
No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush.
So they will fall among the fallen;
they will be brought down when I punish them,”
says the Lord.

Society wastes its money on pleasure and selfish gains. Then once in debt they are forced to release more freedoms to the government hoping the government will fix their problems. More power to the government only leads to a tyrannical government.

"The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom."
John Locke (1821). “Two treatises of government”, p.234
We must remember that the intolerance that religion and morality uphold is absolutely crucial to liberty. The preservation of freedom is only achieved when structured on the foundation of religion and morality.

Jeremiah 9 (NIV)
1 Oh, that my head were a spring of water
and my eyes a fountain of tears!
I would weep day and night
for the slain of my people.

God judges nations for their sins and I feel terrible to see many people racing to such destruction. But we are not without hope as Jesus is still our Savior, God trains up new generations and

2 Chronicles 7:14 (NIV)
14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
 
Sep 29, 2019
394
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#2
Whilst not perfect I think the European countries and the anglosphere have largely got things right. However, there are worrying signs of new attacks on freedom of speech, conscience and thought however. A new "progressive", intolerant form of leftism seems to be gripping minds more and more. Particularly the young. As can be seen in universities that no longer allow people to speak with the "wrong" opinions. This must be resisted and not tolerated ( Aristotle was right). But still, these are the Countries that people from all over the world seem to want to flock to. I mean there is no stampede for people to get into Saudi Arabia, even by people of islamic faith!
 

morefaithrequired

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2019
2,194
1,264
113
#3
why do we have to frame everything in political paradigms. neither left nor right have all the answers. Then our Christian faith has to be labelled excusively right wing conservative.
I think we need to move past these limited structures. Jesus Christ did not hand out how to vote cards.
He was able to think outside the
square. Can we?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,792
3,364
113
#4
why do we have to frame everything in political paradigms. neither left nor right have all the answers. Then our Christian faith has to be labelled excusively right wing conservative.
I think we need to move past these limited structures. Jesus Christ did not hand out how to vote cards.
He was able to think outside the
square. Can we?
Not even what the post is about. The post is about how religion and morality is the only way to political prosperity. Any view that tries to undermine this is destructive.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,792
3,364
113
#5
Whilst not perfect I think the European countries and the anglosphere have largely got things right. However, there are worrying signs of new attacks on freedom of speech, conscience and thought however. A new "progressive", intolerant form of leftism seems to be gripping minds more and more. Particularly the young. As can be seen in universities that no longer allow people to speak with the "wrong" opinions. This must be resisted and not tolerated ( Aristotle was right). But still, these are the Countries that people from all over the world seem to want to flock to. I mean there is no stampede for people to get into Saudi Arabia, even by people of islamic faith!
Very true. The country's resistence to religion especially the Christian faith where the country's laws are founded in and absolute morality is held. Sets up a country without the absolute morality of God and without the universal observation of the moral laws then all we have is the opinions of man.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,642
7,717
113
#6
Whilst not perfect I think the European countries and the anglosphere have largely got things right.
And you should have added that were it not for the Bible and for Christianity, Europe and North America would not have got it right.

The influence of Christianity on Western culture, laws, and society is indisputable. It is also indisputable that Radical Islam (which is what is found in the Quran) is totally opposed to the West, to Christians and to Jews. But Western politicians and most people have not woken up to the fact that two evil systems -- Islam and Communism -- are presently working side by side to destroy America, Western societies, and Christianity.

Communism had a long range goal to undermine the freedoms and the prosperity of the West, and the universities and colleges of America are now hotbeds of Socialism and Communism, where free speech is being barred, while every perversion is being encouraged. And if the extreme Left-Liberal Socialists which have taken over the Democrat party are not stopped, they will indeed destroy America.

At the same time Radical Muslim Jihad in the West has not disappeared. But it has taken more insidious forms because of the ignorance and arrogance of Western politicians. Throwing open the doors to migrant invasion from Arab and Muslim lands was an open invitation to Islam to take over. and it is happening everywhere. A recent report stated that a Christian student was forced to say an Islamic prayer by his teacher. And this kind of thing is being repeated all over the Western lands. And terrorism will take many different forms in the future, including economic and cyber warfare.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,792
3,364
113
#7
And you should have added that were it not for the Bible and for Christianity, Europe and North America would not have got it right.

The influence of Christianity on Western culture, laws, and society is indisputable. It is also indisputable that Radical Islam (which is what is found in the Quran) is totally opposed to the West, to Christians and to Jews. But Western politicians and most people have not woken up to the fact that two evil systems -- Islam and Communism -- are presently working side by side to destroy America, Western societies, and Christianity.

Communism had a long range goal to undermine the freedoms and the prosperity of the West, and the universities and colleges of America are now hotbeds of Socialism and Communism, where free speech is being barred, while every perversion is being encouraged. And if the extreme Left-Liberal Socialists which have taken over the Democrat party are not stopped, they will indeed destroy America.

At the same time Radical Muslim Jihad in the West has not disappeared. But it has taken more insidious forms because of the ignorance and arrogance of Western politicians. Throwing open the doors to migrant invasion from Arab and Muslim lands was an open invitation to Islam to take over. and it is happening everywhere. A recent report stated that a Christian student was forced to say an Islamic prayer by his teacher. And this kind of thing is being repeated all over the Western lands. And terrorism will take many different forms in the future, including economic and cyber warfare.
Tolerance even though self defeating is a destructive belief. Two contradicting ideas cannot coexist. Here is a funny but not funny because it is true example.

CS-8RiYWEAAM07a.png
 

TM19782017

Active member
Dec 15, 2018
251
152
43
#10
This would solve most of our problems.
Not sure how other countries elect officials BUT, to echo your post.

Trump may appear to be the top of the food chain but he isn’t, the Supreme Court has the most power.
You and I know who the highest authority is.

Call it IRONIC that technically the #2 (president) gets a personal choice(Supreme Court nominee) of who has authority over himself.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,792
3,364
113
#11
Not sure how other countries elect officials BUT, to echo your post.

Trump may appear to be the top of the food chain but he isn’t, the Supreme Court has the most power.
You and I know who the highest authority is.

Call it IRONIC that technically the #2 (president) gets a personal choice(Supreme Court nominee) of who has authority over himself.
Correction. In a Constitutional Republic as the US, the People (State, Congress, the Individual) are at the top with the most power.

The executive branch is next with powers granted.

Third is the Judiciary including the Supreme court.

The main purpose for the Constitution and Bill of rights was to give more power to the people. The Supreme court has the least of powers.
.
I can understand your confusion because the judiciary branch is abusing its power by creating laws instead of just interpreting the law based on original meaning and past debates.

Congress (the people) should be the only ones changing laws like for example in the 1960s the Supreme court took prayer out of schools. Ignoring all past defenses for religion in school and even was taught in public school. Congress should of been the only one to vote on such matters. Plus the separation of powers gives each branch of government defensive measures and offensive measures to use on other branches.

Our Congress and Executive have failed to use these measures to keep the judiciary branch in its tiny box.

This was the exact thing our founding fathers feared because in Great Britain the judiciary branch was often like the supreme law of the land as judge and jury but of course they could judge based on their opinions and not some strict standard of law. Most common people couldn't even understand English law until only about the 1700s when William Blackstone wrote extensive commentaries on English law.

The founders used his writings to take the good from English law and tried to restrain the bad.
 

TM19782017

Active member
Dec 15, 2018
251
152
43
#12
Correction. In a Constitutional Republic as the US, the People (State, Congress, the Individual) are at the top with the most power.

The executive branch is next with powers granted.

Third is the Judiciary including the Supreme court.

The main purpose for the Constitution and Bill of rights was to give more power to the people. The Supreme court has the least of powers.
.
I can understand your confusion because the judiciary branch is abusing its power by creating laws instead of just interpreting the law based on original meaning and past debates.

Congress (the people) should be the only ones changing laws like for example in the 1960s the Supreme court took prayer out of schools. Ignoring all past defenses for religion in school and even was taught in public school. Congress should of been the only one to vote on such matters. Plus the separation of powers gives each branch of government defensive measures and offensive measures to use on other branches.

Our Congress and Executive have failed to use these measures to keep the judiciary branch in its tiny box.

This was the exact thing our founding fathers feared because in Great Britain the judiciary branch was often like the supreme law of the land as judge and jury but of course they could judge based on their opinions and not some strict standard of law. Most common people couldn't even understand English law until only about the 1700s when William Blackstone wrote extensive commentaries on English law.

The founders used his writings to take the good from English law and tried to restrain the bad.
Thanks! I like to learn something new everyday.
 

Atlantis88

New member
Nov 1, 2019
12
7
3
#13
I am so glad I found other Christians, for a while I felt I was all alone. living in Sodom. There are parades and protest for many unholy reasons but none for Jesus why? I cannot fight alone. We are the Gods Army but they are not afraid of us because we do not show our numbers and love for Christ. There should be Day for Him (not Christmas or Easter ) and one-day globally for LOVE . That is just my prayer that we all united in Jesus do his will and shine the light on the darkness.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,792
3,364
113
#14
I am so glad I found other Christians, for a while I felt I was all alone. living in Sodom. There are parades and protest for many unholy reasons but none for Jesus why? I cannot fight alone. We are the Gods Army but they are not afraid of us because we do not show our numbers and love for Christ. There should be Day for Him (not Christmas or Easter ) and one-day globally for LOVE . That is just my prayer that we all united in Jesus do his will and shine the light on the darkness.
If they wasn't afraid then they would perceive Christianity as a threat. Ironically they view us as evil, deplorable, bigoted etc. Christians all over the country are rising up to stand in the gap. You just dont hear about it because 95% of the mainstream media leans progressive liberalism.

Once you branch out and get connected to Christian news attire then you will start to hear and see the actual battlefield. The victories, the battles, and the losses. Often times you are definitely not alone but others are suffering in silence. Just waiting for the courage or event to move into action.

We must be active politically, apologetics and in evangelism. But not with the same battle tactics as our enemies but of the spiritual warfare that the Word teaches us to prepare and stand against.

You want a parade. Start a parade. You may begin as one but God can turn one into thousands. The actions of one has changed history in the past and it could easily if God willed be repeated again.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,943
10,452
113
#16
I have found that anything with "Must watch!" in the tag line isn't worth watching.