The Invention of Homosexuality

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#41
I know the voice of the Shepherd. I have not written anything contrary to Scripture. What I have stated opposes understanding.
People like angelica zambrano and peniel ngonde who see visions of hell (which goes against what Jesus told us in the parable of Dives and Lazarus) will probably tell you they hear God's voice....this is why we need to test the spirits.
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#42
I know the voice of the Shepherd. I have not written anything contrary to Scripture. What I have stated opposes understanding.
Well maybe you're right but like @PenEd said, God never said in scripture that we have to keep the population down. He is fine with married couples having babies if they can and wish to
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#43
Agree


All sickness is from living in a fallen world. There were exceptional cases in the bible where sicknesses were sent (Like with Job) but for most of us God didn't send sickness . It's a result of living in a fallen world.

A loving God doesn't give His beloved creation hormone disorders. Think of those poor women with PCOS. They have too many male hormones and become covered with excess body and face hair, start growing beards, they are prone to diabetes, sleep apnea, vitamin d deficiencies, brittle bones, insulin resistance and mental health issues also infertility. Many of them have to spend decades on birth control to control out of control bleeding lasting months. Those who are "lucky" enough to fall pregnant often find their much wanted babies don't carry full term of they may survive and grow up with a much higher chance of autism.

Your God caused that?.he desires that for His children?

He sounds like a monster!
I’m missing your point. Either you are saying those people don’t exist or you are calling God a monster. Please reread what you wrote and specify, do you think God is a monster?
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#44
People like angelica zambrano and peniel ngonde who see visions of hell (which goes against what Jesus told us in the parable of Dives and Lazarus) will probably tell you they hear God's voice....this is why we need to test the spirits.
Explain to me in facts what makes my statements inaccurate. All opposition has clearly stated their opinions.
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#45
I’m missing your point. Either you are saying those people don’t exist or you are calling God a monster. Please reread what you wrote and specify, do you think God is a monster?

I never said people with hormone diseases didn't exist

But they are not linked to homosexuality

There is no link

And yes your God is a monster if he deliberately creates people with hormone or chromosome issues.

I worship a God who heals and is a kind father to His children
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#46
Explain to me in facts what makes my statements inaccurate. All opposition has clearly stated their opinions.

I already did

I told you that young children do not have a sexual orientation. There are no documented cases of gay in babies or any child younger than 8. So not born gay

God in His word said children are a blessing and actually said through Paul that motherhood is a good thing as women were.saved by childbearing (Jesus was born of Mary and He saved us). Nowhere in God's word does He say the population needs to be kept low.
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#47
your friend with the hormone issue likely.developed those gay tendencies in his teens or young adulthood. If he had been born with them he would have been feminine as a baby. Yet there aren't effeminate toddlers running round
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#49
I already did

I told you that young children do not have a sexual orientation. There are no documented cases of gay in babies or any child younger than 8. So not born gay
God in His word said children are a blessing and actually said through Paul that motherhood is a good thing as women were.saved by childbearing (Jesus was born of Mary and He saved us). Nowhere in God's word does He say the population needs to be kept low.
What do you think saved by childbearing literally means, especially in the context about being quiet in church as it was delivered? I agree children aren’t born gay. That’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning it anyone cared to read the OP before they allowed their prejudices cloud their understanding.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#50
I already did

I told you that young children do not have a sexual orientation. There are no documented cases of gay in babies or any child younger than 8. So not born gay
God in His word said children are a blessing and actually said through Paul that motherhood is a good thing as women were.saved by childbearing (Jesus was born of Mary and He saved us). Nowhere in God's word does He say the population needs to be kept low.
What do you think saved by childbearing literally means, especially in the context about being quiet in church as it was delivered? I agree children aren’t born gay. That’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning it anyone cared to read the OP before they allowed their prejudices cloud their understanding.
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#51
What do you think saved by childbearing literally means, especially in the context about being quiet in church as it was delivered? I agree children aren’t born gay. That’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning it anyone cared to read the OP before they allowed their prejudices cloud their understanding.
I have No prejudice against gay people I was bisexual myself until God set me free.

Saved b childbearing meant that women should be encouraged to stop going from house to house gossiping and being idle and tend to their husbands and children. Because Mary modelled to them how good women should be.bear in mind this was before women had option of having careers . Being childfree is not a sin. But in Pauls day most women were mothers and Paul was.saying "it's your job to be married and have babies, your role as a woman is a good one. So he was saying a good thing

It isn't talking about salvation as in saved from sin or hell because salvation only comes through the finished work of Jesus , His atonement for sins. Men and women are saved the same way. Not by any work but faith
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
1,015
857
113
#52
Seeker47 if you have time to potentially clarify some of your beliefs perhaps we can see where we differ. I too am a seeker, Hungry was chosen because of my insatiable appetite for knowledge and truth. I sought and found, asked and was answered. If I am delusional please enlighten me.
Delusional is not my word and I reject that thought absolutely. You are indeed a seeker and that is both our benefit and our curse. Seekers travel their own roads, bumps and all.

I will try to make a response. These are my thoughts and I make no claim on wisdom. If I have misunderstood any of these comments, and I probably did; please grant me a grace.


"why would He judge people for being homosexual when they were born that way?"

I think we confuse pre-destination with tendency. I agree some are born with traits, such as effeminate males, that can lead to poor choices, but it is ultimately a choice.

"All creation is balanced, or created to be balanced."

While ecological processes may attempt to return to their previous state of balance, creation progresses. The history of creation does not revert or we would have dinosaur neighbors. The second law of thermodynamics established not balance but entropy in creation.

"Top predator populations are controlled by hormones."

If you are talking animal predators, I do not believe there is evidence to support your conclusion. Animal predators are controlled by their nature (instinct) which were God created. If you are talking about “alpha males” then, much like the homosexual issue, it comes down to choice. If not choice, then any crime of an alpha male would have to be excused.


"Females determine which suitors get to pass on their genes."

In our culture this may be true, but in others this is far from the norm. Throughout history the choices of female humans have been limited, or worse, absolutely controlled by others. We may see greater choices in the animal world for some females but should not assume this for humans.

"God invented sex but He didn’t invent sexuality,"

Sexuality is the expression of our sex and was absolutely created by God. I am not sure how you can make this point without dismissing the story of creation.

"When He sent Israel on military campaigns to destroy populations, it was to maintain balance."

This is a tough one. I think it is a misinterpretation to say God sent the Israelites on campaigns to destroy populations. He did send them on campaigns to destroy some populations who had abandoned their beliefs and engaged if sin. The goal appears to be to be the creation of a land for His people where they could live in peace under His rule. There are also examples in the Bible where he cautioned the Israelites to leave certain populations alone and to pass through their land in peace.


"Too many alphas may cause battles to force natural selection."

Too many alphas will cause them to battle each other. That always happens when cultures encounter change.


"humans glorify sex and celebrate it and allow it to define them"

Most people do not let sex define them. We are husbands, wives, parents, children, Christians, cub fans, and bad golfers. Sex is only a wee piece of a greater human picture.


"sexuality, how one defines their expression of hormonal urges."

Sexuality is much more than that. I have been married 53 years, if urges controlled my sexuality, I probably would not have survived the very first one.


"Sexuality is psychological."

Yes, and physical, and emotional, and spiritual. Jesus repeatedly used marriage as the clearest example of his relationship with us. He is the Bridegroom and we are his bride. This is much more than a psychological expression.


"Sex wasn’t designed to define us and make us whole? Nope."

Sex does make us whole; we are designed to experience all the benefits of sex as long as we do so appropriately. It is satisfying, fulfilling and answers some very deep needs we have besides just urges. This is why it is so central to humans.


"It’s not some sacred gift we give to another, making us one with them? Not exactly."

It is. Husband and wife become one, totally and exclusively. One flesh, one mind, one body, one in spirit. We are one in every way as we shall someday be one in Christ.

Finally, about Darwin. His theories have been discounted among scientists and are now only promulgated by the anti-Christian media. He correctly described processes that generate changes in populations but then tried to expand those processes to explain the Origin of Species. It doesn’t work. This is a very simple explanation and you will need to explore the truth on your own.

Please know this is written with all honor and respect.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#53
your friend with the hormone issue likely.developed those gay tendencies in his teens or young adulthood. If he had been born with them he would have been feminine as a baby. Yet there aren't effeminate toddlers running round
Until functioning testicles turn it up a notch at puberty, there is less difference between boys and girls but still a noticeable difference. I can see why the Lord led me to write this. Clearly the bigotry among Christians towards homosexuals is evident. If I had said physically retarded people are born that way, there is no argument. Had I said mentally retarded people are born and again, a resounding YES! I suggest sexually retarded people are born and nothing but accusations of demonic heresy. However, physically retarded people get sympathy, mentally retarded people get sympathy and sexually retarded people get teased, told they are destined for Hell and accepted only by sinners who manipulate their less than normal traits and give them a false hope that they too can find happiness. If I have seen a group of Christians who honour the Lord by loving sinners as He did, it is not in this forum.
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#54
Until functioning testicles turn it up a notch at puberty, there is less difference between boys and girls but still a noticeable difference. I can see why the Lord led me to write this. Clearly the bigotry among Christians towards homosexuals is evident. If I had said physically retarded people are born that way, there is no argument. Had I said mentally retarded people are born and again, a resounding YES! I suggest sexually retarded people are born and nothing but accusations of demonic heresy. However, physically retarded people get sympathy, mentally retarded people get sympathy and sexually retarded people get teased, told they are destined for Hell and accepted only by sinners who manipulate their less than normal traits and give them a false hope that they too can find happiness. If I have seen a group of Christians who honour the Lord by loving sinners as He did, it is not in this forum.
I am not.homophobic as I was bisexual myself as I mentioned in and earlier post.

And some of my closest Christian friends are gay or trans . I love them.and have no issue with them. But I know children have no concept.of being attracted to anybody sexually. They are at home.in their own bodies at that age. The insecurity and feeling confused comes later usually
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#55
Until functioning testicles turn it up a notch at puberty, there is less difference between boys and girls but still a noticeable difference. I can see why the Lord led me to write this. Clearly the bigotry among Christians towards homosexuals is evident. If I had said physically retarded people are born that way, there is no argument. Had I said mentally retarded people are born and again, a resounding YES! I suggest sexually retarded people are born and nothing but accusations of demonic heresy. However, physically retarded people get sympathy, mentally retarded people get sympathy and sexually retarded people get teased, told they are destined for Hell and accepted only by sinners who manipulate their less than normal traits and give them a false hope that they too can find happiness. If I have seen a group of Christians who honour the Lord by loving sinners as He did, it is not in this forum.
Well you have found one. You've found me. A Godly ex bisexual Christian

Who is also disabled so yeah I understand about learning disabilities I suffer myself. I wouldn't be prejudiced against the retarded for that reason
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#56
Homosexuality has been and remains to be a topic of strong opinion. One of the reasons many object to God being loving and merciful is, why would He judge people for being homosexual when they were born that way? Those who defend God’s character suggest homosexuality is a choice. That is the only way that they can justify it. However, it is clear that some dudes are just born feminine. They don’t act the same or think the same as those born masculine and vice versa for women. So, did He in fact create homosexuality? I asked Him. This is how He explained it to me.

All creation is balanced, or created to be balanced. When there is imbalance, the scales tip and something gets triggered to bring it back. Populations are controlled by food in general. There is natural thinning of the herds. Top predator populations are controlled by hormones. Alphas procreate. Females determine which suitors get to pass on their genes. When human populations increase too rapidly for an area the scales tip. First food shortages may cause the group to divide in search for greener pastures. Too many alphas may cause battles to force natural selection. When neither happens then stress and poor nutrition cause testosterone levels to drop in populations. This causes females to find less suitable men to pass on their genes, creating less birth to death ratio. Since humans glorify sex and celebrate it and allow it to define them, it becomes problematic. Rather than a dude following instincts and being celibate, he adopts the taught programming that all people will be unfulfilled if they don’t find the love of their life. God invented sex but He didn’t invent sexuality, how one defines their expression of hormonal urges. Sex is the procreative mechanism designed to perpetuate humanity so strong healthy populations survive while weak ones thin. It’s a mercy. It’s balance. When He sent Israel on military campaigns to destroy populations, it was to maintain balance. Who knows what might have happened if He didn’t? He does. Anyways, the point is this. Sexuality is psychological. It is how one formulates input, emotions and programming to compute a rationale regardless of logic. He did design a system that causes some men to be less manly and some women to be less feminine. It was man however that interpreted that input incorrectly. What?! Sex wasn’t designed to define us and make us whole? Nope. It’s not some sacred gift we give to another, making us one with them? Not exactly. Eliminate the programming from your thoughts, all of it. Allow He who designed us renew your mind. Don’t even listen to me. Listen to Him who told me.
So "God" gave you a different answer than what he had written in his book to us. So what he had written to us in our Bible is this. "For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
"
Romans 1:21‭-‬27 ESV

So do we believe the bible or your over active imagination?

What you need to understand is that when you say that God said a thing that he did not say, you have made yourself a false prophet. While I don't believe you want to be a false prophet, I suggest you repent.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#57
Delusional is not my word and I reject that thought absolutely. You are indeed a seeker and that is both our benefit and our curse. Seekers travel their own roads, bumps and all.

I will try to make a response. These are my thoughts and I make no claim on wisdom. If I have misunderstood any of these comments, and I probably did; please grant me a grace.


"why would He judge people for being homosexual when they were born that way?"

I think we confuse pre-destination with tendency. I agree some are born with traits, such as effeminate males, that can lead to poor choices, but it is ultimately a choice.

"All creation is balanced, or created to be balanced."

While ecological processes may attempt to return to their previous state of balance, creation progresses. The history of creation does not revert or we would have dinosaur neighbors. The second law of thermodynamics established not balance but entropy in creation.

"Top predator populations are controlled by hormones."

If you are talking animal predators, I do not believe there is evidence to support your conclusion. Animal predators are controlled by their nature (instinct) which were God created. If you are talking about “alpha males” then, much like the homosexual issue, it comes down to choice. If not choice, then any crime of an alpha male would have to be excused.


"Females determine which suitors get to pass on their genes."

In our culture this may be true, but in others this is far from the norm. Throughout history the choices of female humans have been limited, or worse, absolutely controlled by others. We may see greater choices in the animal world for some females but should not assume this for humans.

"God invented sex but He didn’t invent sexuality,"

Sexuality is the expression of our sex and was absolutely created by God. I am not sure how you can make this point without dismissing the story of creation.

"When He sent Israel on military campaigns to destroy populations, it was to maintain balance."

This is a tough one. I think it is a misinterpretation to say God sent the Israelites on campaigns to destroy populations. He did send them on campaigns to destroy some populations who had abandoned their beliefs and engaged if sin. The goal appears to be to be the creation of a land for His people where they could live in peace under His rule. There are also examples in the Bible where he cautioned the Israelites to leave certain populations alone and to pass through their land in peace.


"Too many alphas may cause battles to force natural selection."

Too many alphas will cause them to battle each other. That always happens when cultures encounter change.


"humans glorify sex and celebrate it and allow it to define them"

Most people do not let sex define them. We are husbands, wives, parents, children, Christians, cub fans, and bad golfers. Sex is only a wee piece of a greater human picture.


"sexuality, how one defines their expression of hormonal urges."

Sexuality is much more than that. I have been married 53 years, if urges controlled my sexuality, I probably would not have survived the very first one.


"Sexuality is psychological."

Yes, and physical, and emotional, and spiritual. Jesus repeatedly used marriage as the clearest example of his relationship with us. He is the Bridegroom and we are his bride. This is much more than a psychological expression.


"Sex wasn’t designed to define us and make us whole? Nope."

Sex does make us whole; we are designed to experience all the benefits of sex as long as we do so appropriately. It is satisfying, fulfilling and answers some very deep needs we have besides just urges. This is why it is so central to humans.


"It’s not some sacred gift we give to another, making us one with them? Not exactly."

It is. Husband and wife become one, totally and exclusively. One flesh, one mind, one body, one in spirit. We are one in every way as we shall someday be one in Christ.

Finally, about Darwin. His theories have been discounted among scientists and are now only promulgated by the anti-Christian media. He correctly described processes that generate changes in populations but then tried to expand those processes to explain the Origin of Species. It doesn’t work. This is a very simple explanation and you will need to explore the truth on your own.

Please know this is written with all honor and respect.
I appreciate that you have taken the time to expand on your answers. I feel confident calling you bother in the Lord. I won’t disagree with what you stated. There are some areas that are true because humans make them true by way of societal programming and conditioning. I am not special. All I did was believe the Word is true. I followed the Scriptures like a treasure map. I searched them exhaustively for knowledge and understanding. It wasn’t until I put the book down and reached out calling His name relentlessly, fasting and praying, abandoning all pleasure until one day He answered. He explained all things in ways I hadn’t imagined or ever been taught. However each time I researched what He told me, there it was in His book. If you are truly a seeker message me and I will share or better yet ask Him yourself. I know why the religious minded people scoffed at Christ. When you think you have all of the answers it’s easy to determine someone is wrong. I didn’t scoff at anyone here (nor did you) and clearly invited their correction. I’m not claiming to be a “prophet”. The Lord knows I love Him and talks to me because I know how to shut up and listen. Be blessed and congratulations on 53 years of marriage.

-Steve
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#58
So "God" gave you a different answer than what he had written in his book to us. So what he had written to us in our Bible is this. "For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
"
Romans 1:21‭-‬27 ESV

So do we believe the bible or your over active imagination?

What you need to understand is that when you say that God said a thing that he did not say, you have made yourself a false prophet. While I don't believe you want to be a false prophet, I suggest you repent.
All that you stated I agree with. This has nothing to do with how population naturally effects testosterone levels in males. It is the human retrobate mind that translates sub-male traits to represent that your femininity must be made manifested as a gay male. A male born feminine who accepted Christ completely wouldn’t feel the need to express himself sexually at all, let alone as a homosexual. He would just live for God asexually as did many of the Jewish males who were castrated when they were captured. That is the difference of being spiritually born. The flesh and its carnality are no longer masters to us. Man was made to serve God, not the flesh. Everything you posted is an example of people who live to satisfy the flesh.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#59
I am not.homophobic as I was bisexual myself as I mentioned in and earlier post.

And some of my closest Christian friends are gay or trans . I love them.and have no issue with them. But I know children have no concept.of being attracted to anybody sexually. They are at home.in their own bodies at that age. The insecurity and feeling confused comes later usually
Agreed
 

EnglishChick

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2021
673
349
63
42
England UK
#60
All that you stated I agree with. This has nothing to do with how population naturally effects testosterone levels in males. It is the human retrobate mind that translates sub-male traits to represent that your femininity must be made manifested as a gay male. A male born feminine who accepted Christ completely wouldn’t feel the need to express himself sexually at all, let alone as a homosexual. He would just live for God asexually as did many of the Jewish males who were castrated when they were captured. That is the difference of being spiritually born. The flesh and its carnality are no longer masters to us. Man was made to serve God, not the flesh. Everything you posted is an example of people who live to satisfy the flesh.
That does make sense

Celibacy is a good thing

What people.call a man being feminine is called Klinefelter symptom. It means having an extra x.chromosone. It is not linked to bring homosexual as.far.as I know because you are born with klinefelter. Whereas homosexual traits are.learned later.in life