58 Palestinians Shot Dead By Israeli Troops.

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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#2
Parroting mainstream British media? Must we have the terrorist-loving anti-Israel bias represented on a Christian website?
The Guardian is an extremist rag.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
541
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#3
I'm no expert on this event, and I don't believe Israel is incapable of wrongdoing, but in any event there is usually more than one point of view to consider.

We should all be aware that Israel is always crucified in the world media, no matter what they do.
We should also be aware that the Israeli government, like all governments, is prone to justify whatever they do.

So what's going on?
I don't know.
But it's usually prudent to consider different points of view.
Here's another point of view.

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Rules-of-engagement-view-from-the-Gaza-front-556435






 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,946
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#4
58 Palestinians Shot Dead By Israeli Troops, many more injured.
1. Please note that the media has a built-in anti-Israel bias, as does the EU, the UN, and the whole Muslim world.

2. Hamas has been deliberately provoking Israel by getting people to try and breach the fence and the border in order to create chaos in Israel. This has been going on over the recent past.

3. Every country in the world has a right to protect its borders and to deal severely with insurgents -- this is war (jihad).

4. Israel has warned Hamas that it will begin assassinating their leaders if this nonsense does not stop.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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#5
Yes, nothing 'new', it's ALL already been done in our Bibles...
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Florida
#6

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
7,520
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#7
They ought to change governors. Pilate is letting things get out of hand.
 

John_agape

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2014
187
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#8
The Guardian has its political bias, but knowing that we should be able to read it with a filter. There is news as fact, then there is slanted news, and then there is opinion. Sure it sensationalizes and slants news, using loaded words, but knowing that we should be able to interpret the news it gives.

I read The Guardian as well as the Jerusalem Post, Drudgereport for up-to-date headlines, the Daily Caller and Breibart. The Guardian does give news - as well as slanted biased opinion.

All news media are biased to some degree. Unless we are able to separate fact from opinion, then no news is safe to for us read, whether conservative or liberal.

That Israeli seurity forces killed more than 60 Palestinians and wounded over 2,000 is fact. Even if it was published in The Guardian. The issue should not be disputing fact, but discussing the "why?"

An 8-month-old Palestinian child died of tear gas inhalation. That is a fact. That the tear gas came from Israeli troops is a fact.

The moral question to ask is what was an 8-month-old child doing in the tear gas zone? What kind of parent goes to such a demonstration/riot with an 8-month-old child?

So who is to blame for the death of that child, Israeli security forces firing tear gas through the smoke of burning tires at a violent crowd, or an irresponsible Palestinian parent?

The violent demonstrators were demonstrating that their grandparents left Israeli territory 70 years ago and lost their land. That is fact.

The question to ask is, since most, if not all, of those demonstators were not born then, how vital is that piece of land their grandparents/parents lost? As one young demonstrator said, "My family lost our land in Ashkalon. We want it back." That was the young lad's grandparents land. he has never seen it.

That was traumatic for the grandparents, but shouldn't the second generation have moved on? Millions of people lose their homes and land, even ancestral land every year, through no fault of their own.

People in Hawaii had their homes and land buried under 20 feet of lava this last week. They can't demonstrate to get it back. It is traumatic, but they must come to accept it happened, grieve, and then move on.

Millions of ordinary normal people who want nothing more than to provide for their families and live their lives peacefully have been brutally uprooted and lost their homes and land this last year. From Syria, through Yemen, Iraq, Myanmar, Indonesia, Congo, South Africa, Venezuela, etc.

The young people in Gaza and the West Bank can get jobs in the Middle East. There are guest workers in Saudi Arabia, Dubai and Qatar. Can't they go there where they can find work and in basically the same culture they come from?
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,946
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#9
That Israeli security forces killed more than 60 Palestinians and wounded over 2,000 is fact.
And what the Left-Liberal media will never tell you is that those were actually members of TERRORIST ORGANIZATION HAMAS.

[h=1]Hamas Leader: 50 of 62 Gazans Killed During Border Riots Were Our Members[/h]http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2018/05/16/hamas-leader-50-of-62-gazans-killed-during-border-riots-were-our-members/

So if terrorists try to breach your borders, what should be your response?

As to the 8 month old child, that was probably a put up job by Hamas to garner worldwide sympathy and fool the Liberal Westerners. Hamas pays the parents of young children to have them slaughtered in the name of Jihad. It is time to wake up people and understand that Jihad has no bounds, and the next target will be the USA or Canada. Iran once again declared "Death to America", and Turkey has called for worldwide Jihad against the infidels because of Jerusalem.
 

John_agape

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2014
187
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#10
And what the Left-Liberal media will never tell you is that those were actually members of TERRORIST ORGANIZATION HAMAS.

Hamas Leader: 50 of 62 Gazans Killed During Border Riots Were Our Members

Hamas Leader: 50 of 62 Gazans Killed During Border Riots Were Our Members

So if terrorists try to breach your borders, what should be your response?

As to the 8 month old child, that was probably a put up job by Hamas to garner worldwide sympathy and fool the Liberal Westerners. Hamas pays the parents of young children to have them slaughtered in the name of Jihad. It is time to wake up people and understand that Jihad has no bounds, and the next target will be the USA or Canada. Iran once again declared "Death to America", and Turkey has called for worldwide Jihad against the infidels because of Jerusalem.
In that Breitbart article there is a quote: “In the last rounds of confrontations, if 62 people were martyred, 50 of them were Hamas,” said Hamas official Salah Bardawil.

The "IF" in the quote shows that the Hamas official does not know how many Hamas members were killed. He is just throwing out a number. Hamas wants "martyrs" and Hamas want many people killed. Where were the older hardcore Hamas members during the violence? Probably out of harm's way. Just because it is reported in Breitbart does not make it a fact. Fact is that Breitbart in this instance published Hamas terrorist propaganda.

It could be 50, or it could be 10. Whatever the number, nearly all the other violent demonstrators were young Palestinians who had been wound up by older Hamas members the real hardcore terrorists, to be cannon fodder. The older Hamas members knew there were going to be deaths, so they used tried and true rabble-rousing tactics to get as many expendable young people to be killed for Hamas propaganda.

These violent Palestinians wanted to break through the border fence and attack Israeli citizens in Israel. Ther was little else that the Israeli security forces could do. I did not criticize the Israeli forces for killing those violent Palestinians. those violent Palestinians were hellbent on causing mayhem in Israel.

As for the 8-month-old child. I prefer to believe the most plausible scenario. Your scenario is not plausible: "probably a put up job by Hamas to garner worldwide sympathy and fool the Liberal Westerners. Hamas pays the parents of young children to have them slaughtered in the name of Jihad." Paying a family for some family member to become a suicide bomber is a known practice used by Hamas. Sometimes they try something more cost-effective, like strapping a bomb belt on a mentally retarded 8-year-old and telling the child to go and talk to some Israeli soldiers and then blow up the child with remote control. In that case, they wouldn't need to pay the family.

But an 8-month-old baby? No way.

To me the most plausible explanation for the 8-month-old is that the child's mother took the baby to the violent demonstration and was in a place she should not be with her child. The Israeli forces did not target the child. They were unaware of the child's presence. Tear gas canisters were shot through the smoke of burning tires at a chaotic mob. If the mother wanted to see the action, she should have kept a distance, away from the smoke.

Martyring an 8-month-old by tear gas is a bit weird even for Hamas.
 
Last edited:
Dec 23, 2012
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In that Breitbart article there is a quote: “In the last rounds of confrontations, if 62 people were martyred, 50 of them were Hamas,” said Hamas official Salah Bardawil.

The "IF" in the quote shows that the Hamas official does not know how many Hamas members were killed. He is just throwing out a number. Hamas wants "martyrs" and Hamas want many people killed. Where were the older hardcore Hamas members during the violence? Probably out of harm's way. Just because it is reported in Breitbart does not make it a fact. Fact is that Breitbart in this instance published Hamas terrorist propaganda.

It could be 50, or it could be 10. Whatever the number, nearly all the other violent demonstrators were young Palestinians who had been wound up by older Hamas members the real hardcore terrorists, to be cannon fodder. The older Hamas members knew there were going to be deaths, so they used tried and true rabble-rousing tactics to get as many expendable young people to be killed for Hamas propaganda.

These violent Palestinians wanted to break through the border fence and attack Israeli citizens in Israel. Ther was little else that the Israeli security forces could do. I did not criticize the Israeli forces for killing those violent Palestinians. those violent Palestinians were hellbent on causing mayhem in Israel.

As for the 8-month-old child. I prefer to believe the most plausible scenario. Your scenario is not plausible: "probably a put up job by Hamas to garner worldwide sympathy and fool the Liberal Westerners. Hamas pays the parents of young children to have them slaughtered in the name of Jihad." Paying a family for some family member to become a suicide bomber is a known practice used by Hamas. Sometimes they try something more cost-effective, like strapping a bomb belt on a mentally retarded 8-year-old and telling the child to go and talk to some Israeli soldiers and then blow up the child with remote control. In that case, they wouldn't need to pay the family.

But an 8-month-old baby? No way.

To me the most plausible explanation for the 8-month-old is that the child's mother took the baby to the violent demonstration and was in a place she should not be with her child. The Israeli forces did not target the child. They were unaware of the child's presence. Tear gas canisters were shot through the smoke of burning tires at a chaotic mob. If the mother wanted to see the action, she should have kept a distance, away from the smoke.

Martyring an 8-month-old by tear gas is a bit weird even for Hamas.
tottally non factual opinionated piece of warmongering i seen in a long while, there plenty of evidence of people no where near the fence being shot, and medic going to help shot also. Theres palestinian christians in the march to, even before you look at any evidence your mind is made up. is it ok for Palestinians to shoot people on their side of the fence. somehow instead of blessing our enemies you changed it to shoot em, Jesus the same yesterday today and tomorrow turns into a war lord somehow, i really dont get it. how you support Jesus hating people above christian brothers and sisters. do you think if anyone receives a future messiah without accepting the work of christ, is going to be saved. Only 1 way, only 1 bride.
 

John_agape

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2014
187
7
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#12
tottally non factual opinionated piece of warmongering i seen in a long while, there plenty of evidence of people no where near the fence being shot, and medic going to help shot also. Theres palestinian christians in the march to, even before you look at any evidence your mind is made up. is it ok for Palestinians to shoot people on their side of the fence. somehow instead of blessing our enemies you changed it to shoot em, Jesus the same yesterday today and tomorrow turns into a war lord somehow, i really dont get it. how you support Jesus hating people above christian brothers and sisters. do you think if anyone receives a future messiah without accepting the work of christ, is going to be saved. Only 1 way, only 1 bride.
I am fascinated by how some people read into what I wrote, things that I never wrote. And assume I have taken sides in this issue. There are lear problems on both sides. What I initially reacted to was comments that news reported in The Guardian cannot be factual because The Guardian is a left leaning liberal newspaper. Breitbart repeated Hamas terrorist propaganda, but The Guardian did not. What a confusing world we live in.

This is the first time I heard about Christian Palestinians marching. Why were the Christians mixing in with the Muslim Hamas? There are less Christians in Gaza than there were people wounded in one day (Tuesday).

"People no where near the fence being shot," sure that could happen, it was chaotic, Hamas were burning tires to create a smoke screen. It was not an open-air Nobel Peace Prize committee meeting going on there. And, "medic going to help shot also," now that is a problem in the chaos. How clearly was the medic marked as a medic?

I am confused. I have tried to find reports on the Palestinian Christians demonstrating with Hamas, but with no success.

Christians in Gaza are a persecuted minority. About 10 years ago there were about 3,000, now there are less than 1,000 Christians in Gaza. They need our prayers, as do Christians in Syria, Iraq and Iran.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
3,467
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#13
I am fascinated by how some people read into what I wrote, things that I never wrote. And assume I have taken sides in this issue. There are lear problems on both sides. What I initially reacted to was comments that news reported in The Guardian cannot be factual because The Guardian is a left leaning liberal newspaper. Breitbart repeated Hamas terrorist propaganda, but The Guardian did not. What a confusing world we live in.

This is the first time I heard about Christian Palestinians marching. Why were the Christians mixing in with the Muslim Hamas? There are less Christians in Gaza than there were people wounded in one day (Tuesday).

"People no where near the fence being shot," sure that could happen, it was chaotic, Hamas were burning tires to create a smoke screen. It was not an open-air Nobel Peace Prize committee meeting going on there. And, "medic going to help shot also," now that is a problem in the chaos. How clearly was the medic marked as a medic?

I am confused. I have tried to find reports on the Palestinian Christians demonstrating with Hamas, but with no success.

Christians in Gaza are a persecuted minority. About 10 years ago there were about 3,000, now there are less than 1,000 Christians in Gaza. They need our prayers, as do Christians in Syria, Iraq and Iran.
Prayers for peace and reconciliation are needed for all people in the conflict
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,588
46
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#14
tottally non factual opinionated piece of warmongering i seen in a long while, there plenty of evidence of people no where near the fence being shot, and medic going to help shot also. Theres palestinian christians in the march to, even before you look at any evidence your mind is made up. is it ok for Palestinians to shoot people on their side of the fence. somehow instead of blessing our enemies you changed it to shoot em, Jesus the same yesterday today and tomorrow turns into a war lord somehow, i really dont get it. how you support Jesus hating people above christian brothers and sisters. do you think if anyone receives a future messiah without accepting the work of christ, is going to be saved. Only 1 way, only 1 bride.
Did you read the post? Hardly warmongering and its based on facts you can find in all media outlets.
I am struggling to find anything about Christians trying to breach the border or just turning up to support the attempt.

As for distances from fence does it matter? Stray bullets can travel some distances for example. Reminds me of all the Lefties bleating on how evil the British government was during the Falklands War to order the General Belgrano to sunk even though it was out of the exculsion zone. So what.

You do realise that the object of the exercise was to breech the fence and go and kill Jews? Not that difficult as its only half a mile from the fence to the nearest Israeli homes.
 

Dem

Member
Mar 7, 2018
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#15
All this death just so Trump could win over the evangelistic right wing. Just a political move by Trump. sad who cares where the US embassy is.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
7,520
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#16
Yes. Hamas, their political acolytes, and the people dumb enough to show up to a riot involving Israeli soldiers bore noooooo responsibility whatsoever.

All this death just so Trump could win over the evangelistic right wing. Just a political move by Trump. sad who cares where the US embassy is.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#17
Iran and the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas have decided to renew their partnership
after five years of cold relations. On Tuesday, the London daily Asharq al-Awsat
announced that several weeks of negotiations based in Lebanon between Hamas,
Hezbollah and Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (irgc) culminated with Iran
agreeing to once again fund the group.
-

Iran extends hand to new Hamas leader Haniyeh
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4966871,00.html

A senior leader of the Iranian army congratulated Ismail Haniyeh on his nomination as
the New Hamas leader, saying that Iran hopes to strengthen relations with the terror
group turned political party, renew resistance against the Zionists and retake Jerusalem
—seeking an invigoration of the 'holy war' against Israel.

Iran is funding Hamas’s violent campaign at Gaza border, Shin Bet says Captured terror
operatives say Hamas sends civilians to the fence, keeps its own gunmen back -- ready
to enter Israel if fence is breached to carry out terror attacks
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-funding-hamas-efforts-to-foment-border-violence-shin-bet-says/

14 May 2018 Monday’s report stated:

"
From the information we have, it appears Hamas is encouraging and sending protesters
to the border fence in order to carry out violent acts and damage security infrastructure.

In addition, it was found that Iran is providing funding to Hamas in order for it to carry
out these violent activities along the Gaza Strip’s border fence.
"
-

While the report did not elaborate further about Iran’s specific contributions, the fact that
its fingerprints are all over the March of Return is not surprising given Hamas’s renewed
relationship with Tehran. The recently installed Hamas chief in Gaza, Yahywa Sinwa, is
known for his strong ties to the Islamic regime. Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (irgc)
Quds Force leader Qassem Suleimani has praised him.
-

Suleimani’s public statement in support of Hamas during the 2014 war with Israel.
https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/or...commander-none-can-disarm-gazaresistance.html

At the time it was published, Al-Monitor stated how rare it was for Suleimani to release
such a letter, saying it reflected “a personal and emotional commitment to Palestine that
Suleimani has not expressed before.” Here is part of his letter:

"Palestine is a beating heart whose blood runs through the veins of mankind to present a new
humanity at any time. The painful scenes of Palestine breaks our heart and covers our chests
with grief—a grief that in its essence has a deep wrath—a wrath that at the appropriate time
will be poured on the heads of the criminal Zionists.

Before the Almighty God, we take an oath with the martyrs that we will remain bound to
and not change. Just like we are and have been in doing our religious duty in supporting
the resistance. We emphasize that we continue to insist on the victory of the resistance
… until the ground, the sky, the sea for the Zionists turns into hell."


More than just following orders from the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei,
this Quds force leader has a passionate personal desire to destroy and eradicate the Jews.