Aww... Michelle 'O Catering to the Christians

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TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#81
Im actually not terribly concerned about the candidates religion...it seems a moot point since you know foreign policy, the economy, and equal rights really shouldnt rely on it at all...especially considering in modern times the less christian people are the MORE they support civil foreign plicy(not war), a fairer economy(not the huge rich-poor gap we have now), and equal rights(for ALL citizens) compared to believers.
I wish I could have clicked "LOVE" instead of "Like."

This is what I've been trying to say for months on this site, and haven't been eloquent enough to get my point across in a way that others have understood me. Maybe, Nautilus, they'll understand you.

To me, "Christian" issues are as follows:
Foreign policy: war is a last resort only. Jesus said turn the other cheek. I don't think Jesus would approve of re-naming anyone over the age of 18 "potential militants" so that when your drone wipes out a village, you can say "no civilians were killed."
Equal rights: Jesus said love your enemy. Yes, he told the woman guilty of adultery to go and sin no more, but he forgave her first, loved her first. I don't think Jesus would approve of treating some sinners like second-class citizens, denying their rights just because their sin is more "icky" than the sins we are all guilty of.
Economic justice: I've already pounded this one.

Yes, I agree ... why is it that these values seem to be embraced by non-Christians while most "Christians" I meet tend to embrace the opposite side of the issue?
 
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Liz01

Guest
#82
I wish I could have clicked "LOVE" instead of "Like."

This is what I've been trying to say for months on this site, and haven't been eloquent enough to get my point across in a way that others have understood me. Maybe, Nautilus, they'll understand you.

To me, "Christian" issues are as follows:
Foreign policy: war is a last resort only. Jesus said turn the other cheek. I don't think Jesus would approve of re-naming anyone over the age of 18 "potential militants" so that when your drone wipes out a village, you can say "no civilians were killed."
Equal rights: Jesus said love your enemy. Yes, he told the woman guilty of adultery to go and sin no more, but he forgave her first, loved her first. I don't think Jesus would approve of treating some sinners like second-class citizens, denying their rights just because their sin is more "icky" than the sins we are all guilty of.
Economic justice: I've already pounded this one.

Yes, I agree ... why is it that these values seem to be embraced by non-Christians while most "Christians" I meet tend to embrace the opposite side of the issue?
we understand you TheGrungeDiva, its just that we wont agree with you
 
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TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#83
we understand you TheGrungeDiva, its just that we wont agree with you
So if you understand, which part(s) do you disagree with?

Do you disagree that Jesus would be against war? Or do you agree that Jesus would be against it but figure it's not realistic to want that in a presidential candidate?

Do you disagree that Jesus said, "If you have two shirts, and your neighbor has none, give him one of yours"? Or do you just disagree with Jesus on that part?

Do you disagree with Jesus and the prophets who said we should care for the poor, the aliens in our land, and love even those who hate us?

I understand if you want to "pick and choose" which parts of the Bible to go with. I guess I'm just looking for a reason why you reject these particular parts of the Bible.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#84
Aw, c'mon, fellow Americans!
First: the debates? Scrpited affairs where each candidate tries to do better than the other in terms of reducing whole ideas to sound bites?
And, as if we have much choice in the first place.
(sorry- I'm feeling pessimistic, and rather feel as though we have a choice between "A" and "A" a lot of the time)
But to narrow the actual choice to two people is sad sometimes. It's the system, and we have to work with it and are fortunate to have it. Yet it frustrates me at times.

Basically, it's a party. Or rather, two parties. Candidates, and then the elected, pretty much are bound to the ideologies of their affiliated party, Elephant or Donkey, right? I think candidates probably DO lie about what they think and believe. (in defense of Mr. No New Taxes, though, gotta look at that whole thing in context. Not saying it was right...just difficult.)

Isn't it just a power thing, when it comes right down to it? I mean, do our elected actually serve we the people anymore?
Or is it the PTB, the lobbyists and the folks they work for, and their own ideas of the way things should be?
The Federal Gov't has become massively huge beyond what the founders expected or wanted. Bureaucrats have the power to make law, and do not have to answer to us. The Constitution is hardly considered by some, if not most. And what's saddest is that most of us don't even know what it says!

Hmm..looking over this, I think I need a prayer walk. Exercise and Jesus to restore perspective. :)
 
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TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#85
Aw, c'mon, fellow Americans!
First: the debates? Scrpited affairs where each candidate tries to do better than the other in terms of reducing whole ideas to sound bites?
And, as if we have much choice in the first place.
(sorry- I'm feeling pessimistic, and rather feel as though we have a choice between "A" and "A" a lot of the time)
But to narrow the actual choice to two people is sad sometimes. It's the system, and we have to work with it and are fortunate to have it. Yet it frustrates me at times.

Basically, it's a party. Or rather, two parties. Candidates, and then the elected, pretty much are bound to the ideologies of their affiliated party, Elephant or Donkey, right? I think candidates probably DO lie about what they think and believe. (in defense of Mr. No New Taxes, though, gotta look at that whole thing in context. Not saying it was right...just difficult.)

Isn't it just a power thing, when it comes right down to it? I mean, do our elected actually serve we the people anymore?
Or is it the PTB, the lobbyists and the folks they work for, and their own ideas of the way things should be?
The Federal Gov't has become massively huge beyond what the founders expected or wanted. Bureaucrats have the power to make law, and do not have to answer to us. The Constitution is hardly considered by some, if not most. And what's saddest is that most of us don't even know what it says!

Hmm..looking over this, I think I need a prayer walk. Exercise and Jesus to restore perspective. :)
Attitude aside, you're actually correct. As my mom would say, "You've hit the nail on the thumb."

This is exactly what the Tea Party was initially talking about, though it was quickly "usurped" by the Republican Party and manipulated to serve the purposes of the PTB, as you say. Then the Occupy movement started up the cause -- from the other side, but basically saying the exact same thing. Like the Tea Party, they attracted a lot of crazies, and got some bad press because of it, but the kernel was there. We (Americans) are getting tired of being manipulated. Like you said, every election is a choice between "A" and "A." (I like to say "Brand X" and "Brand X.")

Maybe this is why Jesus said leave this all to Cesar.

Hope you enjoyed your Jesus Walk :)
 
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Liz01

Guest
#86
So if you understand, which part(s) do you disagree with?

Do you disagree that Jesus would be against war? Or do you agree that Jesus would be against it but figure it's not realistic to want that in a presidential candidate?

Do you disagree that Jesus said, "If you have two shirts, and your neighbor has none, give him one of yours"? Or do you just disagree with Jesus on that part?

Do you disagree with Jesus and the prophets who said we should care for the poor, the aliens in our land, and love even those who hate us?

I understand if you want to "pick and choose" which parts of the Bible to go with. I guess I'm just looking for a reason why you reject these particular parts of the Bible.
I disagree with you in to blame christians for the bad things.
And i disagree in what you said about seeing the bible as something separated from our actions as i told you before, bible is not a theory but something that we need to practice.

As i see it, there is a wrong idea about christian life, to be a christian doesnt mean to force someone to believe what we believe and doesnt mean either to discriminate someone or taking away their rights , Jesus himself ate with publicans and was with rich and poor ppl. But that doesnt mean that we should change our beliefs, the sin is a sin and we must not justify it.
 

Spartacus1122

Banned [Reason: insulting CC admin in previous pos
Jun 9, 2012
276
1
0
#87
Hmm..looking over this, I think I need a prayer walk. Exercise and Jesus to restore perspective.
While you're at it go register as a Repub, hahahaha :D
 
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TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#88
I disagree with you in to blame christians for the bad things.
I have never blamed Christians for "the bad things." I would say all Christians have sinned, just as all non-Christians have sinned, and the cause of sin is "bad things," as you say. But Christians don't get all the blame -- there's plenty to go around.

Where did you get the idea that I "blame Christians for the bad things?"

And i disagree in what you said about seeing the bible as something separated from our actions as i told you before, bible is not a theory but something that we need to practice.
I did respond to that. I don't know if you read my response yet. If you read it and did not understand, let me know, and I'll be happy to try to explain it another way. If you did not read it, then please do not accuse me of things that I have not said or done.

As i see it, there is a wrong idea about christian life, to be a christian doesnt mean to force someone to believe what we believe and doesnt mean either to discriminate someone or taking away their rights ,
In this we agree 100%.

Jesus himself ate with publicans and was with rich and poor ppl. But that doesnt mean that we should change our beliefs, the sin is a sin and we must not justify it.
Once again, I have never suggested anything to the contrary.

As with many other people on this board, you assume you know what I think, and you have judged me based on those assumptions, but you are wrong and wrong again. I find it more than a little disconcerting that so many here who claim to be Christian are quick to judge and slow to ask forgiveness. I have not received an apology from anyone on these boards for lying about me, for bearing false witness against me, or generally for misjudging me, even though I have shown ample evidence of those wrongs. I'm also disappointed that the very people who say we should hold our sisters and brothers accountable don't seem to be doing that when it comes to sins against people they just disagree with. A sin is a sin, even if the sin is against someone you don't like. Sinning against a sinner doesn't absolve you from having to ask forgiveness.