Furtick Cultic Coloring Book: Elevation Church's Cult Like Coloring Book

[Keren]

That text I quoted was from the small catechism.

and?
what is your decision?
try harder?
work more?
believe you are not forgiven?
or have another christian remind you that you are?

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.

and in case you thought the apostles; prophets; teachers were just like us, and not special:

2 Corinthians 5:20
We [His CHOSEN] are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

 

[Keren]

[/B]It's by faith, not sight.
Should just take the Bible at its word.

And the catechism doesn't portray it as a simple "reminder".



I'm just quoting what the catechism says...

Lutheran's do this little side step where they make it sound like it's just a reminder.
But the catechism teaches that it's more than a weeeee lil reminder.

do you need a WEE reminder?
or do you need assurance from Christs under-shepherds?

do as you like.
every modern Christian does what is right in his own eyes.
most don't even believe in confession.
so what good is absolution?

zip.

 

[Keren]

That text I quoted was from the small catechism.

then why the Book of Concord cult thing?
post the whole cathechism and see if any christians object.
you'll have plenty. why i know not.

Because Law has nothing to do with Grace...right?

antinomianism in full bloom.

 

[Keren]

There is a fine line between biblical unity, and glazed eyed cult mentality.

Some critiquing the devotion to his vision, belong to churches that are just as dedicated to man made historical creeds and doctrinal statements.

Chris Rosebrough, one of my favorite podcasters rips on Furtick, and on the church growth/seeker sensitive movements. Yet Rosebrough attends an LCMS church, which is just as dedicated to the Book of Concord. If you don't agree to that vision, they get as "cultish" as those who may disagree with vision casting megachurch pastors.
.

Nonsense.
got a better solution?
doubt it.

 

[1still_waters]

and?
what is your decision?
try harder?
work more?
believe you are not forgiven?
or have another christian remind you that you are?

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction.

and in case you thought the apostles; prophets; teachers were just like us, and not special:

2 Corinthians 5:20
We [His CHOSEN] are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Sola Scriptura...

If the scripture says I'm forgiven, I believe it.

Wasn't the point of the reformation to make us rely on scripture and not the pronouncements of men? In this case relying on a man to forgive us.

 

[Tintin]

The Book of Concord isn't cultish material but some do seem to adhere to it more than they do the Bible. I think that's what Still was getting at. I hope that's what he was getting at.

 

[1still_waters]

[video=youtube;KLVdsUwFVQI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLVdsUwFVQI[/video]

..................

 

[Keren]

The Book of Concord isn't cultish material but some do seem to adhere to it more than they do the Bible. I think that's what Still was getting at. I hope that's what he was getting at.

no they dont.
most lutherans dont even know what it says.

 

[Keren]

[video=youtube;KLVdsUwFVQI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLVdsUwFVQI[/video]

..................

movies?
jokes?
conspiracy theories?

haven't you had enough of that?

WHAT IS THE GOSPEL MESSAGE?

believe?
repent and believe?
believe repent and be baptized?
what's baptism for?
to identify with christ?
make an announcement to the church?

or FOR REMISSION OF SINS?

what is it?

one sentence. or as many as you need.
careful you don't develop a creed.

 

[biscuit]

Annnnnd, WHY would these guys come & praise a guy they hardly know? Because someone at the top of the religious system told them to! Birds of a universal feather flock together, ya know.

Well, President Jimmy Carter & First Lady Roslind Carter gave high praises to Reverend Jim Jones (aka Kool-Aid master), and we know how that went.

 

[1still_waters]

Nonsense.
got a better solution?
doubt it.

So Furtick's followers go to him for vision, and LCMS members are encouraged by the LUTHER smaller catechism to go to their pastors to be granted forgiveness as if from God himself.

What is Confession?*
Confession embraces two parts: the one is, that we confess our sins; the other, that we receive absolution, or forgiveness, from the confessor, as from God Himself, and in no wise doubt, but firmly believe, that our sins are thereby forgiven before God in heaven.
What sins should we confess?
Before God we should plead guilty of all sins, even of those which we do not know, as we do in the Lord's Prayer. But before the confessor we should confess those sins alone which we know and feel in our hearts.
Which are these?
Here consider your station according to the Ten Commandments, whether you are a father, mother, son, daughter, master, mistress, a man-servant or maid-servant; whether you have been disobedient, unfaithful, slothful; whether you have grieved any one by words or deeds; whether you have stolen, neglected, or wasted aught, or done other injury.
Pray, Propose to Me a Brief Form of Confession.
Answer.
You should speak to the confessor thus: Reverend and dear sir, I beseech you to hear my confession, and to pronounce forgiveness to me for God's sake.

The Small Catechism - Book of Concord

 

[Keren]

Well, President Jimmy Carter & First Lady Roslind Carter gave high praises to Reverend Jim Jones (aka Kool-Aid master), and we know how that went.

this isn't that hard.
the NT spells out everything.
there is no excuse or being part of a cult- except indoctrination from a youth- There are exit ministries.

scripture is trustworthy historical narrative....confirming absolute truth and trustworthy promises for all.

 

[Keren]

So Furtick's followers go to him for vision, and LCMS members are encouraged by the LUTHER smaller catechism to go to their pastors to be granted forgiveness as if from God himself.


The Small Catechism - Book of Concord

SO WHAT?
If you counsel a distressed young brother do you ro do you not affirm Christ forgives?
and, do you do it in certainty and with conviction? - knowing its is true, because God said it?
If not, what do you say to the clearly penintent/contrite? - they have - DOUBT.

"Doubt" by Pastor Mark Jasa on Vimeo
"Doubt" by Pastor Mark Jasa 4:40. pause to let load.

Do you assure them they are forgiven if they confess their sins?......invoking the authority of God's Word (apparently you are ministering to these mystery ppl, whatever state the are in.

If you don't end up with the Gospel, for Christians....what do we have?

 

[1still_waters]

SO WHAT?
If you counsel a distressed young brother do you ro do you not affirm Christ forgives?
and, do you do it in certainty and with conviction? - knowing its is true, because God said it?
If not, what do you say to the clearly penintent/contrite? - they have - DOUBT.

"Doubt" by Pastor Mark Jasa on Vimeo
"Doubt" by Pastor Mark Jasa 4:40. pause to let load.

Do you assure them they are forgiven if they confess their sins?......invoking the authority of God's Word (apparently you are ministering to these mystery ppl, whatever state the are in.

If you don't end up with the Gospel, for Christians....what do we have?

If the catechism said...."Oh the pastor is just reminding us and affirming us that we're forgiven"...Then I wouldn't have an issue.
The catechism goes wayyyyyyy beyond that....

What is Confession?*
Confession embraces two parts: the one is, that we confess our sins; the other, that we receive absolution, or forgiveness, from the confessor, as from God Himself, and in no wise doubt, but firmly believe, that our sins are thereby forgiven before God in heaven.
What sins should we confess?
Before God we should plead guilty of all sins, even of those which we do not know, as we do in the Lord's Prayer. But before the confessor we should confess those sins alone which we know and feel in our hearts.
Which are these?
Here consider your station according to the Ten Commandments, whether you are a father, mother, son, daughter, master, mistress, a man-servant or maid-servant; whether you have been disobedient, unfaithful, slothful; whether you have grieved any one by words or deeds; whether you have stolen, neglected, or wasted aught, or done other injury.
Pray, Propose to Me a Brief Form of Confession.
Answer.
You should speak to the confessor thus: Reverend and dear sir, I beseech you to hear my confession, and to pronounce forgiveness to me for God's sake.

 

[Keren]

So Furtick's followers go to him for vision, and LCMS members are encouraged by the LUTHER smaller catechism to go to their pastors to be granted forgiveness as if from God himself.


The Small Catechism - Book of Concord

nobody thinks about a MAN being a mediator. I don't care what 1500 year old dogmatics say.
They were needed. If Luther struggled in one lifetime to 'reform' the RC church (the only thing he knew)...and made a ton of stuff about that time....GREAT - we get church history too - if we read and add knowledge to it.

Jesus Christ forgives sin.
No doubt in mind the Apostles told many people - your sins are forgiven. Not because the can forgive son, but because they have authority to declare it. And now so do we, because it is recorded. THE faith.

Why split hairs. Furtick is clearly a cult of personality, worsening daily.

 

[Tintin]

no they dont.
most lutherans dont even know what it says.

True. Not entire Lutheran denominations, but certainly some Lutheran individuals do. I'm Lutheran and I don't put The Book of Concord on a pedestal but it's a good, useful book.

 

[Keren]

If the catechism said...."Oh the pastor is just reminding us and affirming us that we're forgiven"...Then I wouldn't have an issue.

pp:

As a called and ordained servant, in my biblical office as pastor (the under-shepherds of our souls - for whom they will give account); UPON THE CONFESSIONS OF YOUR SINS; i hereby delcare - you are forgiven for all of your sins. Go in peace.

Absolution (when the congregant is troubled - and to all every sunday) is an impotant and forgotten or degraded part of the Christian life. Like baptism and Communion). These things are precious to me.

thanks for listening.

 

[Keren]

Sola Scriptura...

If the scripture says I'm forgiven, I believe it.

Wasn't the point of the reformation to make us rely on scripture and not the pronouncements of men? In this case relying on a man to forgive us.

one more time.
how many times per day would you say someone posts that they do not know if Christ died for THEIR sins.
and what does the evangelist say?
presumably with assurance and authority.
Because scripture declares it - but the crushed soul may not believe it.
enter - Good News - for christians.
I've never met a Lutheran pastor (servants) with a Narcissistic-Cult problem like Furtick.
But that is celebrity. nothing to do with historic christian faith, 1500 years ago or not.

anyways, thanks for the discussion.

<insert a Mighty Fortress is Our God>

 

[Keren]

[/B]It's by faith, not sight.
Should just take the Bible at its word.

And the catechism doesn't portray it as a simple "reminder".



I'm just quoting what the catechism says...


Lutheran's do this little side step where they make it sound like it's just a reminder.
But the catechism teaches that it's more than a weeeee lil reminder.

i suppose you are right.
old dogmatics and iron-clad creeds during the reformation were what they were.
Lutherans do side-step. Shouldn't that please you?
No cult here. Just understand Christ crucififed.
I guess of you go to Concordia you learn all that other stuff. That's great. I'm certain the bulk of it has merit. In fact I know i does.
You don't preserve the basica of your faith for 1500 years and actually lose much.
Bondage of the Will - example.

Too bad for Furticks's crew. Rock Star. they don't have a clue because they dont read the Bible (or have it read every weekly - full strength).
hey - nobodys perfect. haters gon hate

 

[Stephen63]

Well.... I've checked the 2 links out..... & it seems plain to me who Elevation's church is elevating(pun intended).
I guess this church doesn't need the Spirit's leading like others do......... just roll the dice & get your answer.
I'm curious about something...... what's the members gonna do when they roll their dice & crap out?