Gay Marriage; Now comes the battle...

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Mar 21, 2015
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So you attain equality by redefining the game?
Absolutely !
Take suffrage as an example :-
initially, only white male property owners could vote
then all white males
then women as long as they were property owners
then freed slaves
then all women etc etc etc etc


Marriage ? - same thing
the age of consent has varied.
Since the founding of the country, marriage between whites and persons of color was seen as immoral and unnatural.
In 1948, the
California Supreme Court became the first state high court to declare a ban on interracial marriage unconstitutional.

In 2015, we "redefine the game" again to remove even more irrational prejudice and discrimination.
Great stuff !


I have no doubt that those who are weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth over the current change are today's equivalents of the Luddites of yore who opposed fairness and equity then.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
93
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To Elizabeth, I ask only this.
If the business owner's religion held that blacks bore the mark of Cain or that women should not buy some particular item .....
would it be OK for that owner to refuse service to someone who had the misfortune to be born black or (shock, horror) to be born female ?

Why then would it be OK to discriminate against someone who was born gay ?

And don't let's kid ourselves that gays are not born with that orientation.
(Some might argue that God made them that way - or at least condoned it).
I've known quite a few over the years and certainly never met one who chose to be gay.
It is not an easy path - forever facing bigotry and prejudice particularly from the religious right.
You're comparing what the bible calls a sin to made up situations.
What if I was a magical elf and I was denied the right to perform magic in shopping malls?
Thats about as much sense as you're making.
 

ORly

Member
Jun 26, 2015
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Orly sorely needs help.
Most of us know what an "adult" is - and most of us can define "informed consent".
Quite obviously, ewe cannot get consent from your pet sheep, no matter how pretty she might be.
And most dead bodies could have trouble saying "yes".

Incest ... hmmm not quite so sure. After all, there's heaps of that sort of hanky-panky amongst God's 'good guys'.
With whom did Cain get up close and personal ?
We're told that Abraham and Sara had more than the odd frolic.
And then there's Lot and his daughters ....................................
You didnt answer the questions, all you did was act like it is obvious. What defines an adult? Who defines it? What stops the definition of adult from becoming a 5 year old?
 

Humiliatus

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2015
242
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Absolutely !
Take suffrage as an example :-
initially, only white male property owners could vote
then all white males
then women as long as they were property owners
then freed slaves
then all women etc etc etc etc


Marriage ? - same thing
the age of consent has varied.
Since the founding of the country, marriage between whites and persons of color was seen as immoral and unnatural.
In 1948, the
California Supreme Court became the first state high court to declare a ban on interracial marriage unconstitutional.

In 2015, we "redefine the game" again to remove even more irrational prejudice and discrimination.
Great stuff !


I have no doubt that those who are weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth over the current change are today's equivalents of the Luddites of yore who opposed fairness and equity then.

Wow! really riding in there with guns blazing ain't we... Yeh Haw!
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,128
144
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Well, they were still having homosexual relations before they were married, it's not like they were waiting.
They were sinning before and their still sinning after.
Go and have your way and words with people who have sex out of wedlock, why arn't we bouncing around like apes over that?
 

Mitspa

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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Well, they were still having homosexual relations before they were married, it's not like they were waiting.
They were sinning before and their still sinning after.
Go and have your way and words with people who have sex out of wedlock, why arn't we bouncing around like apes over that?
its not about sinners, who are sinning...its about our society approving sexual perversion and making a deviant group a protected class of people who now have to power of the government to enforce that others approve and accept this deviant lifestyle.
 

ORly

Member
Jun 26, 2015
56
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Wow! really riding in there with guns blazing ain't we... Yeh Haw!
I wonder if he realizes that his subjective morality could easily redefine the game to become accepting Hitler's final solution, or the Great Purge, or the Holodomor, or the Khmer Rouge, or the Cultural Revolution, etc.
 
Mar 21, 2015
643
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Too silly for words.
I'm talking about love and tolerance and fairness and equality

and you're comparing it to genocide, slaughter, torture and mass murder ?!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,018
420
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Absolutely !
Take suffrage as an example :-
initially, only white male property owners could vote
then all white males
then women as long as they were property owners
then freed slaves
then all women etc etc etc etc


Marriage ? - same thing
the age of consent has varied.
Since the founding of the country, marriage between whites and persons of color was seen as immoral and unnatural.
In 1948, the
California Supreme Court became the first state high court to declare a ban on interracial marriage unconstitutional.

In 2015, we "redefine the game" again to remove even more irrational prejudice and discrimination.
Great stuff !


I have no doubt that those who are weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth over the current change are today's equivalents of the Luddites of yore who opposed fairness and equity then.
Woman's rights and ethnic/race rights are in accord with Scripture...no redefinition needed.
Gay marriage, totally different and requires changing what Scripture defines as marriage.
 

Mitspa

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
16,040
119
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Too silly for words.
I'm talking about love and tolerance and fairness and equality

and you're comparing it to genocide, slaughter, torture and mass murder ?!
Love is not condoning and promoting sin...tolerance is allowing the truth to be heard even when folks don't like it...fairness is that we all need to turn from sin and accept the saving grace of Jesus Christ....and equality is to not make sexual perversion and special right forced upon those who reject such immoral behavior.
 
Mar 21, 2015
643
4
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Woman's rights and ethnic/race rights are in accord with Scripture...no redefinition needed.
Not entirely sure about that, Cross.
The Old Testament is awash with what most of us would call sexism or racism today.
"Saint" Paul seems to have had a fairly negative thing about women.
And even Yeshua doesn't look too good in the Racism Stakes Matthew 15:22-8.

Fundie Christians pick and choose which biblical stuff they like. We don't stone too many adulterers these days or sacrifice thousands of sheep or doves.
And puleeeeese, don't give me that Old Covenant / New Covenant stuff.
Are the 'Ten Commandments now invalid ? Remember the 'jot and tittle' ?

I prefer to go with the bible bits which speak of love and tolerance and justice.

But in any case, in a modern democracy, the majority rules and no minority should be disadvantaged because of the religious beliefs of another minority.
The government and the courts have spoken.
" Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."
 

Mitspa

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
16,040
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Not entirely sure about that, Cross.
The Old Testament is awash with what most of us would call sexism or racism today.
"Saint" Paul seems to have had a fairly negative thing about women.
And even Yeshua doesn't look too good in the Racism Stakes Matthew 15:22-8.

Fundie Christians pick and choose which biblical stuff they like. We don't stone too many adulterers these days or sacrifice thousands of sheep or doves.
And puleeeeese, don't give me that Old Covenant / New Covenant stuff.
Are the 'Ten Commandments now invalid ? Remember the 'jot and tittle' ?

I prefer to go with the bible bits which speak of love and tolerance and justice.

But in any case, in a modern democracy, the majority rules and no minority should be disadvantaged because of the religious beliefs of another minority.
The government and the courts have spoken.
" Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."
So you are willing to even try find fault with Jesus to attempt to justify sin?
 
Mar 21, 2015
643
4
0
I wonder if he realizes that his subjective morality could easily redefine the game to become accepting Hitler's final solution, or the Great Purge, or the Holodomor, or the Khmer Rouge, or the Cultural Revolution, etc.
Perhaps there is a parallel, Orly.
Hitler, Chairman Mao and fundie Christians all target homosexuals.
 

Mitspa

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
16,040
119
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Perhaps there is a parallel, Orly.
Hitler, Chairman Mao and fundie Christians all target homosexuals.
Hitler was a homosexual... and the Nazis was basically a homosexual cult
 
Mar 21, 2015
643
4
0
So you are willing to even try find fault with Jesus to attempt to justify sin?
“And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word.
And his disciples came and besought him, saying; Send her away; for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said,
It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.” Matthew 15:22-8


" ... he initially refuses to even speak to her merely because she is different.
He then declares that he only cares about Israelis, only they will be saved. He then compares her to a dog.
It is only after she is forced to beg, grovel and compare herself to a dog eating crumbs that Jesus decides to help her.
If that’s not racist then I don’t know what is.(Mark 7:25-30 tells the same story except the woman is Greek according to him.)"


Terrible Parts Of The Bible: Part 5 – Racism | Whistling In The Wind





 

Mitspa

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
16,040
119
0
“And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word.
And his disciples came and besought him, saying; Send her away; for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said,
It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.” Matthew 15:22-8


" ... he initially refuses to even speak to her merely because she is different.
He then declares that he only cares about Israelis, only they will be saved. He then compares her to a dog.
It is only after she is forced to beg, grovel and compare herself to a dog eating crumbs that Jesus decides to help her.
If that’s not racist then I don’t know what is.(Mark 7:25-30 tells the same story except the woman is Greek according to him.)"


Terrible Parts Of The Bible: Part 5 – Racism | Whistling In The Wind





SO? what He said and done was perfect and right...are you a Christian?
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Well, thriftshopop is back spewing nonsense. No surprise as he always seems to spawn whenever the issue of homosexuality arises. I got my eye on you now. You know the drill. We've been through it all before.
 

kapahawk

Junior Member
Jul 2, 2015
1
0
0
I saw on the news feed that the Episcopal Church has approved Clergy performing LGBT (GAY) weddings. I am also aware this denomination has a long time openness to Gay clergymen. Aren't these things in direct conflict with the Word of God? Isn't this a public display of a complete disregard for the desires of our creator? I do not wish to single out a denomination, there are others out there as well.
 

Humiliatus

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2015
242
2
0
Episcopal Church approves gay marriage: What it means in Alabama | AL.com



The Episcopal Church on Tuesday voted to allow religious weddings for gay couples, joining the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the United Church of Christ in allowing same-sex marriages in all their congregations.
The decision by the House of Deputies – which includes lay people and clergy – came at the Episcopalian General Convention in Salt Lake City, Utah, when delegates voted overwhelmingly in favor of amending canon law so that instead of marriage being defined as between "a man and a woman" or "husband and wife", it is now gender-neutral and between “these persons” or “the couple”.
The resolutions, which will take effect after November 1, follow last Friday’s US Supreme Court’s landmark ruling to legalize same-sex marriages across the country....







Jeremiah 50:6- "My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray They have made them turn aside on the mountains; They have gone along from mountain to hill And have forgotten their resting place.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,018
420
83
Not entirely sure about that, Cross.
The Old Testament is awash with what most of us would call sexism or racism today.
"Saint" Paul seems to have had a fairly negative thing about women.
And even Yeshua doesn't look too good in the Racism Stakes Matthew 15:22-8.

Fundie Christians pick and choose which biblical stuff they like. We don't stone too many adulterers these days or sacrifice thousands of sheep or doves.
And puleeeeese, don't give me that Old Covenant / New Covenant stuff.
Are the 'Ten Commandments now invalid ? Remember the 'jot and tittle' ?
All unsubstantiated mumbo jumbo
I prefer to go with the bible bits which speak of love and tolerance and justice.

But in any case, in a modern democracy, the majority rules and no minority should be disadvantaged because of the religious beliefs of another minority.
The government and the courts have spoken.
" Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."
Right, 'bible bits' as if God speaks in bits and bytes.
When man's law flatly contradicts God's Law we are to obey God rather than man.