Is Ron Paul Christian?

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M

meecha

Guest
#21
I know you asked Nautilus, but I would like to answer each of these. Naut's answers were fine, but incomplete.

1. Audit of the Federal Government:
Every program of the Federal Government is ALREADY audited on a regular basis, based on its budget size. Findings of these audits are published and available to the public. What a brilliant campaign policy, to say "I think we should..." and then list something that's already in place. There's one promise you know you can keep
oh pleaaaseee!!!you are apologizing for the political class.



ron paul said:
Understand that last week's historic vote never would have taken place without the efforts of millions of Americans like you, ordinary citizens concerned about liberty and the integrity of our currency. Political elites respond to political pressure, pure and simple. They follow rather than lead. If all 100 Senators feel enough grassroots pressure, they will respond and force Senate leadership to hold what will be a very popular vote.
In fact, "Audit the Fed" is so popular that 75% of all Americans support it according to this Rasmussen poll. We are making progress.
Of course Fed apologists-- including Mr. Bernanke-- frequently insist that the Fed already is audited.
But this is true only in the sense that it produces annual financial statements. It provides the public with its balance sheet as a fait accompli: we see only the net results of its financial transactions from the previous fiscal year in broad categories, and only after the fact.
We're also told that the Dodd-Frank bill passed in 2010 mandates an audit. But it provides for only a limited audit of certain Fed credit facilities surrounding the crisis period of 2008. It is backward looking, which frankly is of limited benefit.
The Fed also claims it wants to be "independent" from Congress so that politics don't interfere with monetary policy. This is absurd for two reasons.
First, the Fed already is inherently and unavoidably political. It made a political decision when it chose not to rescue Lehman Brothers in 2008, just as it made a political decision to provide liquidity for AIG in the same time period. These are just two obvious examples. Also Fed member banks and the Treasury Department are full of former-- and future-- Goldman Sachs officials. Are we really to believe that the interests of Goldman Sachs have absolutely no effect on Fed decisions? Clearly it's naïve to think the Fed somehow is above political or financial influence.
Second, it's important to remember that Congress created the Fed by statute. Congress therefore has the full, inherent authority to regulate the Fed in any way-- up to and including abolishing it altogether.
My bill provides for an ongoing, thorough audit of what the Fed really does in secret, which is make decisions about the money supply, interest rates, and bailouts of favored banks, financial firms, and companies. In other words, I want the Government Accountability Office to examine the Fed's actual monetary policy operations and make them public.
It is precisely this information that must be made public because it so profoundly affects everyone who holds, saves, or uses US dollars.
Dr. Ron Paul
 
M

meecha

Guest
#22
I know you asked Nautilus, but I would like to answer each of these. Naut's answers were fine, but incomplete.


2. Abortion on Demand
Abortion is a horrible answer to a tragic question, and sometimes a necessity. The only person who can decide when it is necessary is the woman, in consultation with her doctor. I can hope and pray that she would also ask God for guidance, but we cannot make that a national law, as we have a separation of Church and State.

And I can tell you from first-hand experience, that women who do ask God that question, sometimes God's answer is "yes." If God's answer is "yes," who are you to say "no?"

You, nor any government official, has any right to step into that decision.


Ron Paul argues for a constitutional ammendment declaring that " Life begins at conception". ...with the states free to interpret that as they see fit.
 
M

meecha

Guest
#23
1. Auditing the Fed costs money. And unless he has a plan on what to do after the audit is really pointless. Besides do you honestly believe congress would allow that?


you have side stepped the question. Audits have to do with public accountability. Do you believ ethe Fed is accountable to the US public?


2. While I don't support all cases of abortion I do believe it is a necessary evil in society and removing it would cause more harm than good. Not all abortions are reasonable i.e., you got drunk and didn't use protection, while other abortions I feel are while unfortunate, understandable such as in the cases of rape/incest or harm to the mother.
Abortion is the taking of life.That is the Christian view. The circumstances around this or that case may well be tragic but Ron Paul is saying that a constitutional ammendment stating that Life begins at conception is his stated policy. That imo is the most that any Christian politician can reasonably be expected to advocate. It allows the states to interpret the Constitution and removes it from the arena of politicized federal judges. State judges can look at individual cases but with the general principle in mind that the baby is a human being with the right to life.



4. Not as informed on the last one, but also not as concerned.

you need to be. Inflation has occurred when the price of your shopping rises but your wages have not. It means someone profited from an increase in the money supply at your expense. the Bible calls this an abomination. It violates the principle of just weights and measures.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
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#24
you have side stepped the question. Audits have to do with public accountability. Do you believ ethe Fed is accountable to the US public?


You do realize there is already a yearly federal audit at least here in the states for the government right? So him getting approval on an additional audit would be nigh impossible.

Abortion is the taking of life.That is the Christian view. The circumstances around this or that case may well be tragic but Ron Paul is saying that a constitutional ammendment stating that Life begins at conception is his stated policy. That imo is the most that any Christian politician can reasonably be expected to advocate. It allows the states to interpret the Constitution and removes it from the arena of politicized federal judges. State judges can look at individual cases but with the general principle in mind that the baby is a human being with the right to life.

You realize Christians all have differing views on this one right? Im not going to say life begins at conception. Life begins to me when they are born. I dont support abortion up to birth but have no issue if someone wanted to abort a baby caused by rape or incest, and I definitely would never force a woman to risk her life for an unborn child. Not even if it were my own.



you need to be. Inflation has occurred when the price of your shopping rises but your wages have not. It means someone profited from an increase in the money supply at your expense. the Bible calls this an abomination. It violates the principle of just weights and measures.

Well my lifestyle has stayed level even through the inflation. I guess if you live within your means this isnt much of a problem.
Apparently I need ten characters outside of the quote box...
 
Jan 24, 2012
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#25
I'm looking at who is running..

Mit Romney is Mormon. (Mormonism is part of the freemasonry/all seeing eye cult from Egypt)

Gary Johnson - unknown

Ron Paul - says online he's a Christian. Is this true?
freemasonry =bad?

Wow someone listens to internet rumors.
My dad is the highest rank you can get, a good Christian man, and laughs when I bring up different internet rumors about the freemasons
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#26
freemasonry =bad?

Wow someone listens to internet rumors.
My dad is the highest rank you can get, a good Christian man, and laughs when I bring up different internet rumors about the freemasons
Interesting. Have you ever asked him what it's about?
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
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#27
I mean my dad is a freemason too, and was highly involved in church when i went with him, I would assume he still is, but we go to different churches now
 
M

meecha

Guest
#28
.


This is a far more complex issue than you're making it seem
funny...that's what the politicians always say

The fact is, we are in an economic crisis. You can assign blame if you like, but that won't get you out of the crisis.
ok ...lets not blame anyone then?


I'm not sure if you've ever taken a course in economics.
that is not an argument...it is an ad hom attack. I'm not sure if you have ever taken a course in Logical Fallacies but you just commited one.


Economics is a branch of mathematics. There are formulas and proofs and statements as easily verified as "3x3=9" or debunked as "2+2=5."
Adam Smith defined Economics thus....
"an inquiry into the nature and causes of the wealth of nations"....a bit more to it than simple equations

Among Economists, there are VERY few who don't agree that the Keynesian model is one of the best ways to respond to a recession
more logical fallacies. This one is known as "appeal to authority". Most scientists believe the theory of evolution explainsthe origin of life but most scientists have never really examined the subject. An appeal to authority is NOT an argument.


It worked in the 1930s, the last time the US faced a similar crisis
nonsense


And it's working now
Lol!

Part of Keynesian economics includes "stimulus spending." Bush was doing this before Obama became president, and Obama has continued the trend. Now, there are smart ways to stimulate the economy, and then there are less smart ways to do it. Generally, the two parties (dems and reps) disagree about which stimuli are best. But both parties agree that stimulating the economy is necessary
whicjh is why the two party system is not working. The money is not sound and the stimuli are the result of a flawed philosophy....namely Keysianism.




Your guy Paul is the lone wolf who says the way to get out of debt is to stop paying your bills

you are surely joking or you are incredibly ignorant. Paul is the only guy who is saying to pay the debt. Please provide quotes to back up your assertions.
 
M

meecha

Guest
#29
nautilus said:
You realize Christians all have differing views on this one right? Im not going to say life begins at conception. Life begins to me when they are born. I dont support abortion up to birth but have no issue if someone wanted to abort a baby caused by rape or incest, and I definitely would never force a woman to risk her life for an unborn child. Not even if it were my own.



No...I didn't realise Christians had different views on this.
 
O

OFM

Guest
#30
HE IS A LIBERTIAN NOT A REPUBLICAN HE SHOULD NOT BE RUNNING AS ONE THEN THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG THEN HE SAID AT A REBUBLICAN DEDATE HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE COUNSTINTIONIST PARTY HE IS POLITICALLY COUNFUSED HE CAN NOT BE TRUSTED POLITICALLY AT ALL IF HE DOES NOT KNOW WANT PARTTY HE BELONGS TOO OR WHAT HE TRUELY BELIEVES THEN HE COULD BE A SOCIAL/COMMUNIST.HE SON SUPPORTS THE NAZI's and said so in an interview.he said his son would be in the administation with him and FREE MASONS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS AT ALL.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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#31


No...I didn't realise Christians had different views on this.
Oh well then they do. Not every christian supports a total ban on abortion. I certainly dont want to leave it to the states to decide individually. Because you would just havepeople going to whatever state its legal or engaging in back alley abortions which is worse. Besides I refuse to see the good side to forcing a girl or woman to suffer for nine months with somethign that wasnt her choice or fault, or to have another woman risk her life just to bring a child into the world who might then not have a mother. Call it what you will but taking this choice away is a terrible idea. Especially in southern states where people dont understand the concept of separation of church and state and would enforce their religious morals on everyone if this issue was left to them.
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#32
funny...that's what the politicians always say
Sometimes. More often, I hear them trying to simplify complex problems rather than complicate simple ones, but I suppose sometimes it goes both ways. That doesn't mean it isn't true sometimes.

ok ...lets not blame anyone then?
You can blame the Queen of England for all the good it will do. My point was (and still is) that assigning blame is not going to solve the problem. You can sit in the corner with your thumb in your mouth and cry, or you can get up and do something. People who sit in the corner and assign blame without doing anything about it are part of the problem, not the solution.

that is not an argument...it is an ad hom attack. I'm not sure if you have ever taken a course in Logical Fallacies but you just commited one.
I have taken several courses in Logic, and I did not commit one. Actually, yours above is a better example, though still not really "ad hominem."

If I had made that one sentence alone, ("I'm not sure if...") and not followed it up with WHY I was making that sentence, that could qualify as ad hominem. A better example of ad hominem would be "you obviously haven't taken a course in logic, because you can't tell the difference between an introductory sentence and an ad hominem attack." Now, even that example isn't perfect, because it does make a point germane to the the discussion ... if the discussion is logic and fallacies. Logic is a fascinating subject indeed. But it is not on-topic, so bringing it up is, well, off-topic. One of the greatest fallacies is taking one quote of another person's argument out of context and destroying the logic that might have been there within its context. A lot of rookies make that mistake, though it's also a tool for the more advanced debate. Kind of a cheap play, but there it is. And still off-topic.

Adam Smith defined Economics thus....
"an inquiry into the nature and causes of the wealth of nations"....a bit more to it than simple equations
Ah, yes, once again, it is more complex than I was making it sound. Yes, I totally agree it is more complex than "simple equations." I'm sorry if my statement made it sound as though I was implying the economics was just "simple equations." You are right to call me on that one. It is far more complex than that. But there is a lot of math in it, and many (most?) economic can be reduced to mathematical equations. The complexity comes from predicting the outcome: as soon as you add humans to an equation, it becomes unpredictable.

Mr. Smith's definition is an excellent one. It does not change my point. If anything, it underscores my point.

more logical fallacies. This one is known as "appeal to authority".
Indeed, like quoting Adam Smith as if what he said contradicted what I said. Yes, that would indeed be a fallacy.

Most scientists believe the theory of evolution explainsthe origin of life but most scientists have never really examined the subject. An appeal to authority is NOT an argument.
Again, we're WAY off-topic. If we were discussing evolution, this could be a valid point ONLY IF you could provide any evidence for the above sentence. Since it's completely off-topic, I will give you the opportunity to withdraw it from this argument -- the only thing it does in this particular debate is provide some straws really far away for you to reach at.

whicjh is why the two party system is not working.
Actually, I agree with this statement. We need to move away from the 2-party system.

you are surely joking or you are incredibly ignorant. Paul is the only guy who is saying to pay the debt. Please provide quotes to back up your assertions.
The portion you referred to was not really a "joke" but was intended as a humorous analogy, so I guess that could be seen as "joking." And it's not really an assertion, but a commentary, a parable if you will. You can't really provide quotes to back up an analogy.

Now, if you think Paul wants to pay the debt, you could certainly provide quotes to back that statement up. The only way to reduce the debt is to raise taxes, since the current MINIMUM expenditures of the US government, taking out ALL federal spending that is allowed to be touched, is more than the current income. My understanding is that Paul is against raising taxes, so that means he cannot reduce the debt, by definition. If you have something that says otherwise, by all means, post it! I'd like to see that.
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#33


No...I didn't realise Christians had different views on this.
A lot of Christians believe that life begins at birth. I think most Christians would agree that abortion is a sin, and is immoral, but a lot of Christians do not believe that it is equivalent to murder. There is some Scriptural support for this view.

I see it akin to smoking and other destructive behavior. It is absolutely sinful, and God does not like it. However, we cannot just make every thing that is sin illegal in the U.S., because we have something here called "separation of church and state." That means that laws cannot be based on the moral code of any particular religion.

Laws are intended to protect people. I understand that those who believe life begins at conception say abortion is equivalent to killing, and in order to protect the unborn, abortion must be made illegal, just as murder is illegal (in most cases). However, the scientific community -- including many Christians -- have proved that life does not begin until birth. Yes, I know that we are not bound by science. A lot of Christians don't accept evolution, which is just as "proven" scientifically, so it is no surprise that some Christians don't accept science's definition of when life starts. But for a nation who takes separation of Church and State seriously, laws much be based on facts alone, not on faith.

(I'm trying to say this without offending anyone ... hope I've succeeded.)
 
M

meecha

Guest
#34
You can blame the Queen of England for all the good it will do.
lol...I wouldn't dare...don't you know I could lose my head;)


but seriously you are suggesting that assigning blame is pointless. Ok lets call it finding out who is responsible. In any anaylisis of human failure the point of an enquiry is to understand how the circumstances arose. The cause of the current western crisis is the debt culture that has been encouraged by banks and governments in collusion with one another most noticably and popularly expressed in the sub prime housing fiasco which effected the poor and the middle classes on both sides of the Atlantic. Banks and governments are responsible for this but individuals also need to take responsibility for listening to the devil. You made the connection between economics and maths and rightly so...at the basic level economics IS simply figures and to suggest that we can obtain limitless money from holes in the wall is really a no brainer for any sensible person....we simply can not take unlimited funds from holes in walls. The UK government rubbished people like myself who argued for 12 years that unlimited credit was absurd and unsustainable. You don't need to do a course in economics to understand such a basic fact. You simply need to read the Bible. God says in His words that unjust weights and measures are an abomination. Banks and governments have fuelled a system of unjust weights and measures and by Biblical standards they should be punished...and that is exactly what IS happening now. God is not mocked.


Now, if you think Paul wants to pay the debt, you could certainly provide quotes to back that statement up. The only way to reduce the debt is to raise taxes, since the current MINIMUM expenditures of the US government, taking out ALL federal spending that is allowed to be touched, is more than the current income. My understanding is that Paul is against raising taxes, so that means he cannot reduce the debt, by definition. If you have something that says otherwise, by all means, post it! I'd like to see that.

it isn't taxes that need raising..it's spending that needs cutting... and the first place to start is government....increasing taxes decreases the circulation of money. Cutting government reduces spending of tax payers money. Cutting tax payers taxes increases their spending power and this is what "stimulates" the economy. Paul advocates bringing America's troops home to
A; Cut government spending ( the military budget)
B; Defend America's borders rather than violating other peoples ( not strictly an economic issue )
C; Increasing the circulation of money....soldiers and sailors spend money...lots of them spend lots of money.NOw they spend it in the US rather than abroad.

Paul advocates the abolition of various government bureacracies such as the Dept of Education...I mention that one because I work in it and have children....
Such departments are totally parasitic in nature. They exist to regulate production and they tend to continue to exist because their workers support big government for obvious selfish reasons. They produce NOTHING!!!this is really important to understand. They regulate and ultimately DISRUPT production. They are forever telling producers what they CAN NOT do. Under the last labour government the UK created 3000 new criminal offences that are primarilly infringements of regulation. That is a load of work for bureacrats at massive cost to the tax payer.It also recruits thousands of workers into it's cause. Christians need to understand that Obama/Bush style politics is Messianic in character. It advocates salvation through politics. It is anti Christ because it denies the Lordship of Jesus and it is idolotorous because it claims to save. Christians should reject it's "solutions"

Ask a teacher what the point of the Dept of Education is. Those who know what it is will answer...."to make my life a misery". Ron Paul wants to blow such dinosaurs out of the water. That is a step towards eradicating the dept...ie stop spending on things that are wasteful.
Now I havn't done a course on Economics. If I had I suspect I'd be well and truly brainwashed by Keynsian apologists and be chanting the mantra that "it's so much more complicated than that" a la Krugman. I am a complete amateur but I understand Ron Paul. I don't understand Krugman because Krugman does not make sense when compared to my world. In other words the figures do not add up. Just as most scientists don't actually understand evolution but accept it as orthodoxy....so most economists do the same thing with Keynes
 
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OFM

Guest
#35
ron [puke] paul wants us to have no schooling education so we ill be uneducated and he can rule as a bad evil hafeful mean cold hearted cruel dictatior.
 
M

meecha

Guest
#36
However, the scientific community -- including many Christians -- have proved that life does not begin until birth.
they must have proved the Bible wrong then.


Gen 25.23
The LORD said to her, “Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”


Job 31.15
Did not he who made me in the womb make them?

Ps 51.6
Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

IS 49.1
Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations: Before I was born the LORD called me; from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name.


Mary declares that the "baby " in her womb leaps for joy. Perhaps you will argue that a baby is not a person?

lUKE 1.44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.




There is some Scriptural support for this view
.


please show me
 
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M

meecha

Guest
#37
on inflation and debt


ronpaul.com said:
What, then, is fiat money? It’s exactly what we just talked about: money that can be inflated or increased at the push of a button at the say-so of a powerful person or organization. Nowadays most dollars are just blips on a computer screen and it’s extremely easy for the Federal Reserve to create money out of thin air whenever they want to.
If our money were backed by gold and silver, people couldn’t just sit in some fancy building and push a button to create new money. They would have to engage in honest trade with another party that already has some gold in their possession. Alternatively, they would have to risk their lives and assets to find a suitable spot to build a gold mine, then get dirty and sweaty and actually dig up the gold. Not something I can imagine our “money elves” at the Fed getting down to whenever they feel like playing God with the economy.
As you can see, inflation and fiat money are very seductive and beneficial to those at the top, and very dangerous to everyone else and the nation as a whole. That’s exactly what Henry Ford was talking about. He knew that every country that relies too much on fiat money is ruined sooner rather than later.
There is only one possible solution to the inflation problem: Stop creating money out of thin air. But we’re already in such a mess that the only way to have a real impact on the money supply is to increase interest rates so that people pay back their loans and borrow less money from the banks, which decreases the amount of money in circulation. However, higher interest rates might very well crash the economy. So the Fed’s current “solution” to overcoming inflation is… creating even more of it.
Fiat money is a dangerous addiction. Even if the Fed found a way to stop inflation, as long as the current system persists the temptation will always be there to resume pushing the easy money button. That’s why we need to get back on the gold standard and eliminate the Federal Reserve altogether.
But that won’t happen “before tomorrow morning”, as Henry Ford said, or even this year. Ron Paul believes that the first step towards monetary freedom is to allow open competition in currencies. Once gold and silver are allowed as legal tender and can be sold without sales tax, everyone can use them to store their wealth and to pay for the things they want to buy. The Federal Reserve will finally have a very compelling motivation to stay honest and maintain the value of the dollar because if they don’t, they will simply lose all their customers.
 
T

TheGrungeDiva

Guest
#38
they must have proved the Bible wrong then.... {snip}
We are all impressed that you know how to use an on-line concordance. Anyone can look up the word "womb" and quote all the verses where that word shows up. One doesn't even have to be a Christian to quote Scripture. Understand Scripture is another matter.

please show me
There have been several discussions in this forum about the issue. You may be new, so I will try to summarize.

The best example is in the Torah (I'm sorry, I don't remember the exact BCV, but I'm sure with your superior internet skills you can find it as easily as anyone else can). There is a passage about what to do in the following situation: Two men are fighting, and in the midst of this, a pregnant woman is accidentally hurt. The penalty is as follows: If the woman is killed, then the man who caused it is to be put to death, for "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" is justice. If the woman miscarries, but no further harm follows (than the death of the unborn), then the father charges a fine to the man who caused it, in whatever amount he feels is fair for the loss of his unborn child.

Clearly, the loss of an unborn child is a terrible thing. It is a sin when it is done, even accidentally. But it is not the equivalent of murder. If it were, then, as the passage says, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," the death of the pre-born would require the death of the man who caused it. It is clear that death is the penalty for murder, and since death is NOT the penalty for causing the death of an unborn child, that means that, at least according to Old Testament law, the death of an unborn child is not the same as murder.

Now, I really don't want our penal system to be based on Old Testament law. There are some disturbing laws in the Old Testament that I don't think anyone today would be able to follow. I am certainly not suggesting that, because of the above Scripture, we should allow for abortion, and simply charge the doctor a fee as the would-be father exacts.

However, the Bible IS a good guide to understanding God, when taken as a whole, understanding ALL of Scripture in light of itself, not taking one verse out of context and holding it up while ignoring other verses.

And ultimately, the abortion question in the U.S. has nothing to do with "what the Bible says." The Bible could have an eleventh commandment that said, "Thou Shalt Not Allow Abortions." That doesn't mean the U.S. can or should follow that law. Rejecting Jesus is also a sin -- at least as much as abortion, homosexuality, or anything else you want to pick on -- and yet the U.S. Constitution doesn't make that illegal.

If you want to live in a country whose laws are based on religious standards, there are several in the Middle East I can recommend. The U.S. from it's foundation is NOT such a country, and as long as I have blood in me, I will fight for it to remain that way.
 
M

meecha

Guest
#39
We are all impressed that you know how to use an on-line concordance. Anyone can look up the word "womb" and quote all the verses where that word shows up. One doesn't even have to be a Christian to quote Scripture. Understand Scripture is another matter.

sure they can....so why don't you do so to find said passage and stop trying to score points and make yourself look morally superior...and who the heck is "we".


The best example is in the Torah (I'm sorry, I don't remember the exact BCV, but I'm sure with your superior internet skills you can find it as easily as anyone else can).
sure...I type in "pregnant woman" and low and behold;)

the passage is in Exodus 21 and it does not say what you say it says....go read it again and get back to me. If it DID say what you said it said the case would not be murder but manslaughter.





Now, I really don't want our penal system to be based on Old Testament law. There are some disturbing laws in the Old Testament that I don't think anyone today would be able to follow
I do sympathise with that sentiment but the word of God is my authority....if we have a problem with His word the problem is us.I can show that the OT says big government is morally insupportable. The Republicans and Democrats apparently know better:eek:

However, the Bible IS a good guide to understanding God, when taken as a whole, understanding ALL of Scripture in light of itself, not taking one verse out of context and holding it up while ignoring other verses.
and who did that? and what other verses other than Ex 21 ( which it turns out you didn't actually know) do you have in mind. If you want the US Constitution to trump the Bible that's your right ....I happen to think the US Constitution is a wonderful document but not as wonderful as God's Word.



And ultimately, the abortion question in the U.S. has nothing to do with "what the Bible says
:eek:



The Bible could have an eleventh commandment that said, "Thou Shalt Not Allow Abortions." That doesn't mean the U.S. can or should follow that law.
:rolleyes:

Rejecting Jesus is also a sin
Yes:cool: you just commited it


If you want to live in a country whose laws are based on religious standards, there are several in the Middle East I can recommend.
there is only one I would recommend:D

Heb 12
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
 
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Feb 11, 2012
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#40
Any one can call themselves a Christian, most people in America profess to be a Christian, but the real test is are they following Jesus Christ on the narrow path? Luke 9-23.

Most who profess Christ are not saved, they think they are because they said the sinners prayer made famous by Billy Graham, now they are saved because they accepted the package deal from the substitution lie!

Quote:

Statement of Faith


“I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.”
-Ron Paul
My faith is a deeply private issue to me, and I don’t speak on it in great detail during my speeches because I want to avoid any appearance of exploiting it for political gain. Let me be very clear here: I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.

Where in the the gospel does it say just accept Jesus then you are saved? If he was a real follower of Christ, he would be preaching the truth from his platform, and then would loose his head as John the Baptist did, he would be thrown our of the race and abandoned by all the other professing Christians who do not fear God, and will not preach Christ crucified and sin subdued!

He says his faith is private, and again where did Jesus say to keep silent, and not rock the boat?

Jesus is calling the lost to repent, stop sinning, and follow Him on the narrow road,not accept, then trust He did it all for them.

You cannot be a politician and a real follower of Christ, its like saying you can be a bar tender and a follower of Christ at the same time they don't mix!

Follow the example of the early saints, they preached repentance, and faith, walking a holy seperate life, loving not the world, and spoke the truth as the spirit led, which usually ended in thier demise and torture!

I pray for our leaders, as we are commanded to do, but to say these men are real followers of Christ, is a big stretch, but most believe you just accept Christ, then you are saved, so would have no problem thinking Ron is a real follower of Christ.

Remember, its not did I accept Jesus as my savior, but has Jesus accepted me?

Through real repentance and faith proven by deeds? 2 Cor 7-10-11!