I've lost faith in the church

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Feb 20, 2016
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#1
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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#2
You see people by their fruits.
Stop always being soooo judgemental.
If your in a church covering up abuse, take it to the police and stand up. No one should stay in abuse. Not everyone of the church is that way.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#3
You see people by their fruits.
Stop always being soooo judgemental.
If your in a church covering up abuse, take it to the police and stand up. No one should stay in abuse. Not everyone of the church is that way.
I don't care. I'm sick of all this flippant denial of holding people accountable in the name of forgiveness.

To be honest, I am a Christian, but the doctrine of forgiveness is a big problem for me. Grace and forgiveness may seem good at first glance, but in the end it defies justice, minimizes the gravest of sins, and ignores the need for accountability.

Sometimes, people need the threat of hell looming over them if the are to change.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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#4
I don't care. I'm sick of all this flippant denial of holding people accountable in the name of forgiveness.

To be honest, I am a Christian, but the doctrine of forgiveness is a big problem for me. Grace and forgiveness may seem good at first glance, but in the end it defies justice, minimizes the gravest of sins, and ignores the need for accountability.

Sometimes, people need the threat of hell looming over them if the are to change.
I know the feeling.
Still it leaves it to us to stand up and bring justice or let God bring justice and expose what is happing. We aint supposed to run around like a headless chicken keeping silent. We need to step up. Why arent you stepping up in church
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#5
I know the feeling.
Still it leaves it to us to stand up and bring justice or let God bring justice and expose what is happing. We aint supposed to run around like a headless chicken keeping silent. We need to step up. Why arent you stepping up in church
I'm just one person, and half the church population won't listen to me because I'm a woman, and in the eyes of many church people, a woman's preaching is not legit.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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#6
I'm just one person, and half the church population won't listen to me because I'm a woman, and in the eyes of many church people, a woman's preaching is not legit.
Since when does that matter. If stand up boldly and pray in God and expose them they will listen. And then more people will take their responsibility with them
What do u have to loose? Getting kicked out? Jesus took a whip and turned the tables.
Theres more churches if they kick u out. You being silent is allowing it just as much as the rest.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#7
Since when does that matter. If stand up boldly and pray in God and expose them they will listen. And then more people will take their responsibility with them
What do u have to loose? Getting kicked out? Jesus took a whip and turned the tables.
Theres more churches if they kick u out. You being silent is allowing it just as much as the rest.
This hasn't happened at my church. But if it ever does, I can guarantee that there will be hell to pay.

I know, I sound cynical, but that sometimes happens when you accept things as they are rather than how you want them to be.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#8
I can understand
I don't care. I'm sick of all this flippant denial of holding people accountable in the name of forgiveness.

To be honest, I am a Christian, but the doctrine of forgiveness is a big problem for me. Grace and forgiveness may seem good at first glance, but in the end it defies justice, minimizes the gravest of sins, and ignores the need for accountability.

Sometimes, people need the threat of hell looming over them if the are to change.
If there is a crime commited the Cops aren't gonna "forgive" are they?
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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#9
This hasn't happened at my church. But if it ever does, I can guarantee that there will be hell to pay.

I know, I sound cynical, but that sometimes happens when you accept things as they are rather than how you want them to be.
I take them the way they are as well. Thats what brought me quite a name in some communities. But when bad happens I get in the gap and fight for the people in the dark place and bring change in Jesus name.I take things tehre where it hurts and not somewhere bringing judgement over people that arent even involved into this darkness such as abuse.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#10
I can understand


If there is a crime commited the Cops aren't gonna "forgive" are they?
Exactly. People need to be taught that if they mess up, it's on them. If they possess even an ounce of conscience, their missteps will haunt them. Their guilt will gnaw at them. No shortcuts to (self-)forgiveness exist.

I also have posted this once before, but I'll do it again here.

Someone answer this question for me. I will not accept platitudes or easy answers.

Of all the vile, despicable, wretched, evil acts that humankind can commit: murder, rape, torture, slavery, genocide, and child abuse, why exactly is blasphemy considered the ONLY unforgivable sin?

Why exactly is it that out of all the horrible ACTIONS that humans can commit, only WORDS are considered unforgivable?

Murder your fellow man? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Rape a woman? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Rape a child? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Torture a child? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Slaughter an entire people? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Enslave an entire population? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Deny God's existence? UNFORGIVABLE!!! YOU ARE DAMNED FOR ALL ETERNITY AND NO AMOUNT OF BELIEF OR PRAYER WILL SAVE YOU FROM GOD'S WRATH!!!

Why exactly is blasphemy the ONE unforgivable sin? I'm not asking the Bible, I'm asking YOU! I'm asking you reader, to THINK!
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#11
The reason why blasphemy is the one unforgivable sin is because you (general you) are completely denying that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit exist. For reasons that only He knows, God finds that unforgivable. Why wouldn't He? After all, it's the equivalent of saying F you to Him.

All the sins you mentioned are horrific, indeed. But God can forgive those. He cannot, and will not, forgive those who deny His/their existence..
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#12
The reason why blasphemy is the one unforgivable sin is because you (general you) are completely denying that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit exist. For reasons that only He knows, God finds that unforgivable. Why wouldn't He? After all, it's the equivalent of saying F you to Him.

All the sins you mentioned are horrific, indeed. But God can forgive those. He cannot, and will not, forgive those who deny His/their existence..
Yeah well, people tend to deny his existence by doing these things. Real Christians do not rape and murder.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#13
Yeah well, people tend to deny his existence by doing these things. Real Christians do not rape and murder.
Yes, indeed they do. Christians are not infallible or incapable of sin. Christians kill, rape, steal, have affairs, etc.. We can choose whether to sin or not. WHY some Christians choose to do the things I mentioned, is beyond my scope of understanding.

Blaspheming God is the ultimate "hell with you" to God. WHY He forgives such sins as rape, and murder, but not the awful sin of denying His existence is kind of obvious. Because it's denying that He exists, it's denying that Jesus lived and died for our sins, it's pretty much denying the good that God created.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#14
Yes, indeed they do. Christians are not infallible or incapable of sin. Christians kill, rape, steal, have affairs, etc.. We can choose whether to sin or not. WHY some Christians choose to do the things I mentioned, is beyond my scope of understanding.

Blaspheming God is the ultimate "hell with you" to God. WHY He forgives such sins as rape, and murder, but not the awful sin of denying His existence is kind of obvious. Because it's denying that He exists, it's denying that Jesus lived and died for our sins, it's pretty much denying the good that God created.
The Bible seriously disagrees with you. Jesus says we will know them by their fruit. They may say they're Christians, but their actions clearly indicate otherwise.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#15
There's a difference between acknowledging we're not fallible and using that as an excuse to minimize grave and serious sin.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
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#16
Church, is the body of Christ. If we all loved as we were called, we wouldn't need His Grace. I think humility and mercy are attributes of His that we, each and everyone of us, can all work more on.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#17
Exactly. People need to be taught that if they mess up, it's on them. If they possess even an ounce of conscience, their missteps will haunt them. Their guilt will gnaw at them. No shortcuts to (self-)forgiveness exist.

I also have posted this once before, but I'll do it again here.

Someone answer this question for me. I will not accept platitudes or easy answers.

Of all the vile, despicable, wretched, evil acts that humankind can commit: murder, rape, torture, slavery, genocide, and child abuse, why exactly is blasphemy considered the ONLY unforgivable sin?

Why exactly is it that out of all the horrible ACTIONS that humans can commit, only WORDS are considered unforgivable?

Murder your fellow man? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Rape a woman? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Rape a child? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Torture a child? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Slaughter an entire people? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Enslave an entire population? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Deny God's existence? UNFORGIVABLE!!! YOU ARE DAMNED FOR ALL ETERNITY AND NO AMOUNT OF BELIEF OR PRAYER WILL SAVE YOU FROM GOD'S WRATH!!!

Why exactly is blasphemy the ONE unforgivable sin? I'm not asking the Bible, I'm asking YOU! I'm asking you reader, to THINK!
You seem to think conversion is believe-ism, assent to facts &c. That and you're a tad out of control and have provided nothing but a huge jab at "the church."

Instead of a continued rant please provide a real example of your generalization. Documentation would be even better. Things are not quite what you make them out to be in your oversimplifications.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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#18
There's a difference between acknowledging we're not fallible and using that as an excuse to minimize grave and serious sin.
True.. But pride keeps many from admitting that they ARE fallible, and ARE sinful. But once the words "God you don't exist" have been uttered, they cannot be taken back. Nor forgiven.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#19
Church, is the body of Christ. If we all loved as we were called, we wouldn't need His Grace. I think humility and mercy are attributes of His that we, each and everyone of us, can all work more on.
Like I said, there's a difference between needing grace and being utterly depraved. Not all sin is equal.

And I'm tired of people telling other people that if we "bash" the church it's like "bashing" someone's wife. BS. I'm gonna tell a man if his wife is cheating on him and ruining other people's lives and prostituting herself.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#20
Church, is the body of Christ. If we all loved as we were called, we wouldn't need His Grace. I think humility and mercy are attributes of His that we, each and everyone of us, can all work more on.
Hmmmm..."If we all loved as we were called we wouldnt need His grace."

Gotta totally disagree with you on that one. Wow.