I've lost faith in the church

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Dec 28, 2016
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#61
I believe that I am certainly as much biblically sound as any member on this site.

What exactly qualifies as a legit church and who is the arbiter that decides this? Yes, the answer is provided in scripture, as in other answers as well, but the problem is that in the CC community, or even a church, legit or otherwise, any particular view is based on a human interpretation of scripture.

In my opinion, based on attending many Sabbath services, the SDA is a scripturally sound church and is not a sect or cult. Based on the many posts on this subject I could also say that most churches that are promoted based on the criteria provided, could also be considered sects or cults. The SDA doctrine on salvation is sound and based on that alone I would say that qualifies this organization as a Christian church. There are many other legit churches as well when considering a church to attend besides SDA.

Any opinion offered by anyone on any topic based on experience and observation is in itself biased. If someone is seeking an opinion from a particular matter or concerned from another the opinion is sought because of such bias as it would be pointless to ask a question from someone who has absolutely no knowledge or experience in what is being asked.

The OP was in regards to women being treated unfairly in a particular church. I offered my opinion on a possible church to consider based on my exposure to such a church. Other members have offered opinions as well to consider.

Based on reading countless posts on this site there are many that consider yourself and your perceptions not to be biblically sound but I beg to differ. Thank you for saying I am kind but even then that is only your opinion, but regardless, I respect that because you are generally biblically sound and this is not your first time around. For that matter, this is not my first time around either.
I'm sorry sir, but no, you're not biblical or sound in Scripture or doctrine. I really like you a lot, but you're on the wrong path.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#62
I'm sorry sir, but no, you're not biblical or sound in Scripture or doctrine. I really like you a lot, but you're on the wrong path.
I will inquire of the Holy Spirit why He has led me astray. By the way, I like you a lot too and find your percepts and estimations to be fascinating and worth considering in order to be a more humble servant to the Lord. :)
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#63
You're still going? Paul wrote Corinthians and Timothy, not satan trying to keep the church ineffective as you said. And you are right "not anymore". And look how its turned out? APOSTASY. Yeah, have fun with that "not anymore".

How arrogant of you to dismiss scripture, while claiming to accept it, indeed. How arrogant of you to think you know better than the ESV NASB KJV NIV etc. translators who have actually studied greek.

i am always open to be proven wrong with scripture and have changed my mind and apologized RIGHT HERE on this forum. You on the other hand, just a few posts ago said this:


yeah..... yet im arrogant? pot meet kettle.


More falsehoods and wild theories with no biblical support, and strange idea of "following God" rather than Peter and Paul, who were writing under the INSPIRATION of the Holy Spirit. Which God exactly are we talking about? Yeah.... Not the biblical one thats for sure, all you see is hierarchy in the Bible, not only men and women but within men, you have different levels of people, just like you do at your job, you have the people above you, and below you. I know reality is tough to deal with.

Go get your last word in, I wont be participating in this twilight-zone 21st century theology circus babble no more. its unproductive and im just getting mean the more i read this weird stuff.
Enjoy your burger king religion, have it your way! *ignore*
A job and hierarchy are not the same thing. Our employers have their own master in Heaven.

I never said Satan wrote those Scriptures, but he knows his bible too, as evidenced during his tempting Jesus in the desert. He knows how to use Scripture against people and how to twist it for his own use. As I said before, he knows the church will only be half as effective as it should be when only half of its people are out preaching.

I have studied the Greek and Hebrew too, and the CONTEXT!

God gave both Adam and Eve the mandate to rule the world. This was before sin entered the world. Are we seriously going to believe that a hierarchy is something God wants when it wasn't part of the original state of the world to begin with? I thought Jesus wanted us to restore all things. Guess I was mistaken.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#64
Go get your last word in, I wont be participating in this twilight-zone 21st century theology circus babble no more. its unproductive and im just getting mean the more i read this weird stuff.
Enjoy your burger king religion, have it your way! *ignore*
Actually, I prefer McDonald's but that's just me.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#66
History princess.

I can understand your frustration, but Jesus got there first. See the first
few chapters of revelations and the letters to the churches.

Incidentally if your own church has murderers and rapists and abusers.
Then call the police and leave the church .... if they are going
unchallenged.

Also I’m afraid you can’t cop of out going to church and calling yourself a
Christian, just because you are offended by news items about so called
Christians.

The church is the bride of Christ. It’s not your place to give up on church
even Jesus didn’t and hasn’t gone that far - are you wiser and better than Jesus?

Rather than suggesting you are not bothering any more, if it bothers you so
much why not do something about it.
Preach the gospel, set up a mission, support a mission. Hey why not even
Support a prison ministry.

Whether you like it or not, the church is the bride of Christ.

Revelation 22:16-17 NKJV
[16] "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.
I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."
[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears
say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him
take the water of life freely.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#67
History princess.

I can understand your frustration, but Jesus got there first. See the first
few chapters of revelations and the letters to the churches.

Incidentally if your own church has murderers and rapists and abusers.
Then call the police and leave the church .... if they are going
unchallenged.

Also I’m afraid you can’t cop of out going to church and calling yourself a
Christian, just because you are offended by news items about so called
Christians.

The church is the bride of Christ. It’s not your place to give up on church
even Jesus didn’t and hasn’t gone that far - are you wiser and better than Jesus?

Rather than suggesting you are not bothering any more, if it bothers you so
much why not do something about it.
Preach the gospel, set up a mission, support a mission. Hey why not even
Support a prison ministry.

Whether you like it or not, the church is the bride of Christ.

Revelation 22:16-17 NKJV
[16] "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.
I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."
[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears
say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him
take the water of life freely.
The Israelites were God's wife. They used the exact same excuse to do a million times worse.
And what did God do? He sent the Assyrians to enslave them and burn their beloved Jerusalem to the ground.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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#68
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.
The Bible seriously disagrees with you. Jesus says we will know them by their fruit. They may say they're Christians, but their actions clearly indicate otherwise.


Anyone committing the crimes and abuses you mentioned is not a Christian. NOT a Christian,from the pope/pastor on down. God will hold these people accountable if they do not repent. IF they do it's more than just saying "I'm sorry." Paul mourned for his sins and called himself the greatest of all sinners. He was broken and God saw his heart and forgave him.

If your church doesn't hold people accountable, find one that does. Our small church had a couple in it that were sleeping together while not being married and bragging that they were living off the gov't. Our pastor took them aside and told them they needed to get married and he needed to get a job and look after his new baby. They got offended and left. One of their family members that was on the board left a few months later. The pastor got up and addressed the church. He said what he told them, and that according to the Bible they were wrong. He said he would always preach according to the Bible and those that disagreed could feel free to leave. He's a quiet person,he's not one for drama,very steady man. But he stands his ground when it counts. Find a church with a pastor that stands for the truth no matter what.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#69
Anyone committing the crimes and abuses you mentioned is not a Christian. NOT a Christian,from the pope/pastor on down. God will hold these people accountable if they do not repent. IF they do it's more than just saying "I'm sorry." Paul mourned for his sins and called himself the greatest of all sinners. He was broken and God saw his heart and forgave him.

If your church doesn't hold people accountable, find one that does. Our small church had a couple in it that were sleeping together while not being married and bragging that they were living off the gov't. Our pastor took them aside and told them they needed to get married and he needed to get a job and look after his new baby. They got offended and left. One of their family members that was on the board left a few months later. The pastor got up and addressed the church. He said what he told them, and that according to the Bible they were wrong. He said he would always preach according to the Bible and those that disagreed could feel free to leave. He's a quiet person,he's not one for drama,very steady man. But he stands his ground when it counts. Find a church with a pastor that stands for the truth no matter what.
Sleeping together and living off the government isn't on the same level as taking advantage of women and children and enjoying it.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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#70
Glad I'm not the only one. It's safer to go to a bar than to a church. Sociopaths are protected because they are so pitiful and they can make victim after victim and the victim shouldn't gossip and just forgive. I will try one other church with only women and 3 married men. If that's no good either, you won't see me in church again.
It's safer to go to a bar? I don't know your area or what churches you've been attending but I've never heard such a thing. To compare the church to a bar... You must have a talent for picking bad places. This is not what is happening in the majority of churches today.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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#71
Sleeping together and living off the government isn't on the same level as taking advantage of women and children and enjoying it.
It's wrong and my point was not to compare but to say there are pastors that stand up and call sin sin. My pastor did and does. Find one who does the same.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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#72
Exactly. People need to be taught that if they mess up, it's on them. If they possess even an ounce of conscience, their missteps will haunt them. Their guilt will gnaw at them. No shortcuts to (self-)forgiveness exist.

I also have posted this once before, but I'll do it again here.

Someone answer this question for me. I will not accept platitudes or easy answers.

Of all the vile, despicable, wretched, evil acts that humankind can commit: murder, rape, torture, slavery, genocide, and child abuse, why exactly is blasphemy considered the ONLY unforgivable sin?

Why exactly is it that out of all the horrible ACTIONS that humans can commit, only WORDS are considered unforgivable?

Murder your fellow man? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Rape a woman? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Rape a child? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Torture a child? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Slaughter an entire people? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Enslave an entire population? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Deny God's existence? UNFORGIVABLE!!! YOU ARE DAMNED FOR ALL ETERNITY AND NO AMOUNT OF BELIEF OR PRAYER WILL SAVE YOU FROM GOD'S WRATH!!!

Why exactly is blasphemy the ONE unforgivable sin? I'm not asking the Bible, I'm asking YOU! I'm asking you reader, to THINK!
Well, do we trust that God is love and also righteousness?
It doesnt matter what people teach.
Our father is looking in our hearts and he knows who we are really. Which motives are behind our sayings an actings.
We should let him judge!
And for him every little sin is the same like a "big" sin. We all need forgiveness.
And we have to recognize, that the world already has taken place in our churches. It is difficult to find a church with sound doctrine.
And to trust in. Because often I realized if somebody confesses sin in the church, and get forgiveness. That he still will treat as sinner.
No love, no new chance.
I suppose this will become more worse in future.
So I trust only in God, but to no church.
 
Feb 20, 2016
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#73
All sin may be sin. But some are definitely worse than others.
 
Jul 9, 2017
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#74
How arrogant of someone like you to think you are absolutely right, never once thinking you could be wrong. How else do we learn?

I do accept these scriptures, and I do believe they were written under the Holy Spirit's inspiration. But the Catholic church taught salvation by works rather than faith for 1200 years until Martin Luther showed them to their faces how wrong they were, from the Bible itself. Just because something is tradition doesn't mean it's right.

I could do the same, but clearly I would be wasting my time with you.

Still, allow me to say that it is the Holy Spirit himself who prompted me to investigate the Scriptures for myself. He's opened my eyes, and now he's opening the eyes of many in the church to this complementarian nonsense that continues to plague churches with abuse. When certain people are allowed to have power over other kinds of people, be they different genders, races, whatever, with power that only belongs to God, disastrous consequences always follow.

Moreover, Satan knows that he can keep the church only half as effective as it should be, by keeping half of its population silent. Well, not anymore.

I pray that the Holy Spirit will open up your eyes as well.
Actually the Catholic Church taught that we are saved by the grace of God and that we are justified by faith and good works. Luther taught, as opposed to what the Bible teaches, that we are justified by faith alone. If Luther would have said that we are justified by faith then there would not have been a problem with the Catholic Church but he decided to use "alone" in regards to faith.
 
Jul 9, 2017
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#75
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.
I totally agree with the fact that, as Christians, we are called to e different than the world but I also know that people are sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God. With that said, I also know that Our Lord promised not to leave His Church and that He sent the Holy Ghost to guide the Church. I do not know what "type" of Christian you are but I'm a Catholic Christian. Over the past few years the Catholic Church has been rocked by scandals but that does not mean that I want to leave the Church. The Church is bigger than the Pope or other Bishops and priests. Our Lord promised that He would be with her and sent the Holy Ghost to guide her. As the late Catholic apologist Frank Sheed said, " I was baptized into Christ, not the Pope."
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#76
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.

 
Dec 9, 2011
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#77
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.
When you say they don't even try I assume you are talking about those that call themselves believers, I would tell you to find another church If you don't feel strong enough to effect a change and If you don't want to find another church then I would wonder.

When you say "try" the bible says to the believer that we are GODs workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works that was preordained before the foundation of the world that we should walk In them and every man that has this hope In them purifies themselves even as they are pure.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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#78
When you say they don't even try I assume you are talking about those that call themselves believers, I would tell you to find another church If you don't feel strong enough to effect a change and If you don't want to find another church then I would wonder.

When you say "try" the bible says to the believer that we are GODs workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works that was preordained before the foundation of the world that we should walk In them and every man that has this hope In them purifies themselves even as they are pure.
There is at least 33,000 Christian denominations in the world not counting non denominational christian churches and organizations. According to Bing today.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
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#79
There is at least 33,000 Christian denominations in the world not counting non denominational christian churches and organizations. According to Bing today.
You've got to remember that the number is smaller than that. Invariably the JW's, numerous sects of the LDS and tons of other cults that claim to be "Christian" are included in that number.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
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Anaheim, Cali.
#80
You've got to remember that the number is smaller than that. Invariably the JW's, numerous sects of the LDS and tons of other cults that claim to be "Christian" are included in that number.
Oh, yes but the point is to have faith in the Lord and his word above all else. If we have the comprehension and discernment put that above man made versions and opinions.
New International Version
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,