Actually insulting someone's mother and getting punched for it is not assault in US law. In US legalism there is a thing called "fight words". Which is interpretted literally as any words that could make a reasonable person throw a punch. The "yo mama" scenario is actually used as an example of this funny enough.
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Islam has one goal, to make those who say anything negative about Islam illegal.
Now that is fine if there was nothing negative to say, but guess what they claim people only say negative things because they hate not because it is real. So the lie is planted, to speak openly is the sin, not the content.
But truth only works if you can discuss it, and lies only prosper when that discussion is stopped. So something more fundemental is going on, and it is very evil. The whole progress of the 20th and 21st century are based on this discussion principle, and if we give it up, we have given up the driver of life and love.
But the argument is it upsets people, because upsetting people is more important to stop than speaking the truth.
Again this is a lie, and it is what Jesus came to tell us about. The pharisees talked the talk but lived the lie.
Islam talks the talk but lives the lie. Their societies fail, abuse is rife, nothing works and motivation is gone. The culture is so bad, when they have wealth it simply is used to buy help in and they continually end in civil wars.
The other problem is the right wing, know this to be true, but equally are as extreme, though with a different agenda.
Now muslims always play the victim card, while victimising their own people and the host community they are part of. It is literally innate within their philosophy of life.
The argument is though, to seek justice in the muslim communities, equal rights for women, stopping abuse of children, dealing with the lack of true justice, land ownership, education, civil government that works and a hope for the people.
The faith is just an excuse feeding off the failure to fuel hatred of the west and the enemy, as the conspiracies are the cause of the failure, not the muslim societies themselves. So this whole mindset is so alien, so destructive, so subtle you have to be careful how you fight and how you win, because all the people from this community you are talking to do not understand you or your society as they are mainly from arranged marriages, to close relatives, with a system to leave is the death penalty, and total loss of family and nationhood.
Now that is fine if there was nothing negative to say, but guess what they claim people only say negative things because they hate not because it is real. So the lie is planted, to speak openly is the sin, not the content.
But truth only works if you can discuss it, and lies only prosper when that discussion is stopped. So something more fundemental is going on, and it is very evil. The whole progress of the 20th and 21st century are based on this discussion principle, and if we give it up, we have given up the driver of life and love.
But the argument is it upsets people, because upsetting people is more important to stop than speaking the truth.
Again this is a lie, and it is what Jesus came to tell us about. The pharisees talked the talk but lived the lie.
Islam talks the talk but lives the lie. Their societies fail, abuse is rife, nothing works and motivation is gone. The culture is so bad, when they have wealth it simply is used to buy help in and they continually end in civil wars.
The other problem is the right wing, know this to be true, but equally are as extreme, though with a different agenda.
Now muslims always play the victim card, while victimising their own people and the host community they are part of. It is literally innate within their philosophy of life.
The argument is though, to seek justice in the muslim communities, equal rights for women, stopping abuse of children, dealing with the lack of true justice, land ownership, education, civil government that works and a hope for the people.
The faith is just an excuse feeding off the failure to fuel hatred of the west and the enemy, as the conspiracies are the cause of the failure, not the muslim societies themselves. So this whole mindset is so alien, so destructive, so subtle you have to be careful how you fight and how you win, because all the people from this community you are talking to do not understand you or your society as they are mainly from arranged marriages, to close relatives, with a system to leave is the death penalty, and total loss of family and nationhood.
The reason for the Muhammed cartoons was to make fun of his hypocracy. To give you an illustration. Muhammed got fed up with muslims not coming to mosque so he said those that stay at home on friday should have their houses burnt down.
Now for a position that says there is no compulsion, that is very much compulsion.
Or another classic idea, you are not forced to believe, but if you are born into the faith, if you leave we will kill you. So 99% of muslims are caught and silenced
Or you can say anything bad about non-muslims but about Islam, or muslims that is blasphemy, and we will kill you.
So at what point do you respect these guys who say if you point out these truths, we will kill you.
It is like talking to a homicidal maniac and then saying, no he is a peaceful guy and all the murders and abuse he does is all fiction of the haters. Fat chance, that is just called lying and intimidation, the arsenal of dictators.
Now for a position that says there is no compulsion, that is very much compulsion.
Or another classic idea, you are not forced to believe, but if you are born into the faith, if you leave we will kill you. So 99% of muslims are caught and silenced
Or you can say anything bad about non-muslims but about Islam, or muslims that is blasphemy, and we will kill you.
So at what point do you respect these guys who say if you point out these truths, we will kill you.
It is like talking to a homicidal maniac and then saying, no he is a peaceful guy and all the murders and abuse he does is all fiction of the haters. Fat chance, that is just called lying and intimidation, the arsenal of dictators.
I know enough about Mahomet and about islam. I all ready know everything you've said and more.
I disagree. You look at some of these cartoons and they have no real point besides mockery.
I do not see how these cartoons serve to do anything to combat islam. It seems to me they rather provoke violence, easily avoidable violence at that. I don't think you'll find many former muslims that left the dark lie of islam because of some cartoons drawn by secularist/atheist mockers.
I disagree. You look at some of these cartoons and they have no real point besides mockery.
I do not see how these cartoons serve to do anything to combat islam. It seems to me they rather provoke violence, easily avoidable violence at that. I don't think you'll find many former muslims that left the dark lie of islam because of some cartoons drawn by secularist/atheist mockers.
Mockers will always be part of human expression, and sometimes it is important to show what is going on. In the west we laugh and then ignore. Sometimes it says something that jumps out, then you pay attention.
But these guys do not deserve to die, because they poke fun, or dis-respect. The Lord wants to have both sides represented so choices are real. Even King David was mocked but let them alone, saying God could even have sent this mocking.
It is important therefore to let this opportunity happen, so when there are real problems they can be expressed.
Unfortunately this is the price you pay for free expression, but it is worth it.
Have you ever thought God when he created us, accepted people will mock and kill him, but it is worth it, because he loves them. So if it is good enough for my Lord, it is good enough for me.
But these guys do not deserve to die, because they poke fun, or dis-respect. The Lord wants to have both sides represented so choices are real. Even King David was mocked but let them alone, saying God could even have sent this mocking.
It is important therefore to let this opportunity happen, so when there are real problems they can be expressed.
Unfortunately this is the price you pay for free expression, but it is worth it.
Have you ever thought God when he created us, accepted people will mock and kill him, but it is worth it, because he loves them. So if it is good enough for my Lord, it is good enough for me.
Aye it is true we forgive them and it is just to forgive. However, this doesn't mean we should be blind. The fact is this specific mockery here will lead to violence. I know enough about islam, and I assume you do also, to know that the slaves to the koran will react full koranically to such cartoons. Were it just the mockers themselves whose necks were on the line that be one thing, but by provoking islam to act islamically it puts many people at danger.
It's the bear analogy. It is no good to poke the bear. When you poke the bear it will arise and maul the poker and everyone in its path. Just don't poke the bear.
It's the bear analogy. It is no good to poke the bear. When you poke the bear it will arise and maul the poker and everyone in its path. Just don't poke the bear.
Free speach? Uh, in case you haven't noticed, CHRISTIAN values, morals, ideas and more have been under attack for decades, and slowly being eradicated as part of our American History. JESUS told us that the world will hate those that follow HIM, because it first hated HIM...I expect no gratitude or applause when I am campaigning against aborting babies, or speaking against same sex marriages, or having bible clubs in school, or addressing ISIS issues, etc. Do you?
There is no free speech to begin with if there are consequences. There's a difference between bowing to islam and inviting islam to massacre your people for vanity.
Again, what profit for the good is there with the Mahomet cartoons? There is none. It only profits the side of evil.
I've all ready watched and warned on this from when Charlie Hebdo reaped what he sowed. I told you this would happen again, and I tell you again now. So when this happens again, the blood is not my hands. I warned and I reasoned, but they would not listen.
Again, what profit for the good is there with the Mahomet cartoons? There is none. It only profits the side of evil.
I've all ready watched and warned on this from when Charlie Hebdo reaped what he sowed. I told you this would happen again, and I tell you again now. So when this happens again, the blood is not my hands. I warned and I reasoned, but they would not listen.
M
I can only speak of this from the perspective of the UK and my experiences, as I don't know
the current atmosphere in the US on this.
There is a fine line between free speech and deliberately going out of you way to
antagonise another person or group of people. If someone targets a group of people
under the disguise of free speech, then it's not right.
While a different matter (but not entirely), I am hearing a lot about Christians being
forced to bake cakes for gay marriages under discrimination laws. Obviously that
is one example of the discrimination laws being used by a group of people for their
own agenda. It feels as though the free speech laws are being used here in a similar
fashion.
Just on a separate issue the Muslim population are still sinners needing to be saved.
i have found there is a real hunger among individuals to know the truth, they have
got a bit of truth mixed with loads of lies and are trapped by satan in bondage.
Groups won't admit it, but get people on their own and speak to them as individuals
and there is the hunger beneath the surface.
i often get taxis especially to church. Most taxi drivers are Asian men. As soon as
I say I am going to church, most want to know if I go regulaly, what do I believe,
many start debating and asking questions.
i have had many astounding conversations while on my way to church.
i have prayed with several on the way and prayed Gods blessing in the name of
Jesus over them, they have openly received this and have agreed beforehand to
me praying for them.
There was one man who knew the Koran inside and out and was some sort of
leader at his local mosk. But he was so full of questions you could see the
hunger he had, he knew deep down that his faith was not providing the
answers to life. We ended up parked outside my church for 20 mins discusing
the gospel message! Then he asked me to pray for him!
As Christians we have to be very careful to be seen to be different from the
world, otherwise we can lose that right to speak about the gospel to
other religions, deliberately antagonising them under the disguise of
free speech definitely would not help.
There is nothing wrong with explaining what you believe, it's necessary to
do so to spread the gospel. Free speech is a blessing to the christian to
promote the gospel, it shouldn't be used as a weapon of war with ulterior motives.
Thats my thoughts anyway.
the current atmosphere in the US on this.
There is a fine line between free speech and deliberately going out of you way to
antagonise another person or group of people. If someone targets a group of people
under the disguise of free speech, then it's not right.
While a different matter (but not entirely), I am hearing a lot about Christians being
forced to bake cakes for gay marriages under discrimination laws. Obviously that
is one example of the discrimination laws being used by a group of people for their
own agenda. It feels as though the free speech laws are being used here in a similar
fashion.
Just on a separate issue the Muslim population are still sinners needing to be saved.
i have found there is a real hunger among individuals to know the truth, they have
got a bit of truth mixed with loads of lies and are trapped by satan in bondage.
Groups won't admit it, but get people on their own and speak to them as individuals
and there is the hunger beneath the surface.
i often get taxis especially to church. Most taxi drivers are Asian men. As soon as
I say I am going to church, most want to know if I go regulaly, what do I believe,
many start debating and asking questions.
i have had many astounding conversations while on my way to church.
i have prayed with several on the way and prayed Gods blessing in the name of
Jesus over them, they have openly received this and have agreed beforehand to
me praying for them.
There was one man who knew the Koran inside and out and was some sort of
leader at his local mosk. But he was so full of questions you could see the
hunger he had, he knew deep down that his faith was not providing the
answers to life. We ended up parked outside my church for 20 mins discusing
the gospel message! Then he asked me to pray for him!
As Christians we have to be very careful to be seen to be different from the
world, otherwise we can lose that right to speak about the gospel to
other religions, deliberately antagonising them under the disguise of
free speech definitely would not help.
There is nothing wrong with explaining what you believe, it's necessary to
do so to spread the gospel. Free speech is a blessing to the christian to
promote the gospel, it shouldn't be used as a weapon of war with ulterior motives.
Thats my thoughts anyway.
I can only repeat my previous post and would add the following:-
God bless
x
Galatians 1:13-17 NKJV
[13] For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted
the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. [14] And I advanced
in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being
more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. [15] But when
it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me
through His grace, [16] to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him
among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
[17] nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me;
but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Matthew 5:43-48 NKJV
[43] "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and
hate your enemy.' [44] But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those
who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who
spitefully use you and persecute you, [45] that you may be sons of your
Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good,
and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if you love those
who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do
the same? [47] And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do
more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? [48] Therefore
you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Proverbs 25:21-22 NKJV
[21] If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; And if he is thirsty,
give him water to drink; [22] For so you will heap coals of fire on his head,
And the LORD will reward you.
V
To whose way of thinking? The person who said it certainly didn't think it wrong. The only person who thought it was wrong was the person it offended. In the U.S., that's too bad. All speech is protected, even it if it stupid, vulgar, ethnically biased, or seditious (but only up to a point, with that last one).
You can even yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, according to some. There are laws to handle irresponsible uses of that right, however. If people are hurt or killed because of the false claim of a fire, they will be charged criminally, or at the very least taken to court civilly.
So while you may not like what is said, may think people should not have to hear what is said, that isn't your determination to make. Here in the U.S., the courts have protected the right to say or produce visually just about anything you can imagine. That's how highly valued our free speech rights are held.
And again, if some is offended, they can put their fingers in their ears or absent themselves from the scene. Silencing the speaker -- at least in this country -- is not an option.
Unfortunately, the liberal left is starting to convince people they do have that right. They would silence people who tell the truth about Islam. Hell, even the World Health Organization came out this weekend wanting to ban the terms "swine flu" and "bird flu" because "animals might be emotionally harmed and needless slaughter take place." Such is the ignorance of the Politically Correct Movement and the liberals who support it.
If they manage to violate our First Amendment with new laws, then the true end of our nation is near.
You can even yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, according to some. There are laws to handle irresponsible uses of that right, however. If people are hurt or killed because of the false claim of a fire, they will be charged criminally, or at the very least taken to court civilly.
So while you may not like what is said, may think people should not have to hear what is said, that isn't your determination to make. Here in the U.S., the courts have protected the right to say or produce visually just about anything you can imagine. That's how highly valued our free speech rights are held.
And again, if some is offended, they can put their fingers in their ears or absent themselves from the scene. Silencing the speaker -- at least in this country -- is not an option.
Unfortunately, the liberal left is starting to convince people they do have that right. They would silence people who tell the truth about Islam. Hell, even the World Health Organization came out this weekend wanting to ban the terms "swine flu" and "bird flu" because "animals might be emotionally harmed and needless slaughter take place." Such is the ignorance of the Politically Correct Movement and the liberals who support it.
If they manage to violate our First Amendment with new laws, then the true end of our nation is near.
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