The Trump Phenomenon: Dry Run for the Antichrist

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M

Mitspa

Guest
#21
You had seven years to post this about obama.
Yea..my thoughts exactly where is the outrage against the real enemies of the conservative cause and Christian liberty... ?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#22
Let me explain this to you folks..folks are sick of both parties, open borders, free trade that cost americans everything and the PC insanity that has taken over our country ... If you don't like Trump? Vote for Hillary ..your probably a lib anyway?
 
J

JeniBean

Guest
#23
It is from an article by Mychal Massie on January 19, 2016 in Daily Rant, Race & Politics. Agree or disagree, it is a good, worthwhile read; regardless of which side of the aisle you sit on; or if you don't sit on either side of the aisle at all. I submit it only as information.








Trump Is Not a Liberal or Conservative, He’s A Pragmatist.










We recently enjoyed a belated holiday dinner with friends at the home of other friends. The dinner conversation was jocund, ranging from discussions about antique glass and china to theology and politics. At one point reference was made to Donald Trump being a conservative to which I responded that Trump is not a conservative.





I said that I neither view nor do I believe Trump views himself as a conservative. I stated it was my opinion that Trump is a pragmatist. He sees a problem and understands it must be fixed. He doesn't see the problem as liberal or conservative, he sees it only as a problem. That is a quality that should be admired and applauded, not condemned. But I get ahead of myself.





Viewing problems from a liberal perspective has resulted in the creation of more problems, more entitlement programs, more victims, more government, more political correctness, and more attacks on the working class in all economic strata.




Viewing things according to the so-called Republican conservative perspective has brought continued spending, globalism to the detriment of American interests and wellbeing, denial of what the real problems are, weak, ineffective, milquetoast, leadership that amounts to Barney Fife Deputy Sheriff, appeasement oriented and afraid of its own shadow. In brief, it has brought liberal ideology with a pachyderm as a mascot juxtaposed to the ass of the Democrat Party.




Immigration isn't a Republican problem – it isn't a liberal problem – it is a problem that threatens the very fabric and infrastructure of America. It demands a pragmatic approach not an approach that is intended to appease one group or another.





The impending collapse of the economy isn't a liberal or conservative problem, it is an American problem. That said, until it is viewed as a problem that demands a common sense approach to resolution, it will never be fixed because the Democrats and Republicans know only one way to fix things and the longevity of their impracticality has proven to have no lasting effect. Successful businessmen like Donald Trump find ways to make things work, they do not promise to accommodate.





Trump uniquely understands that China’s manipulation of currency is not a Republican problem or a Democrat problem. It is a problem that threatens our financial stability and he understands the proper balance needed to fix it. Here again successful businessmen like Trump who have weathered the changing tides of economic reality understand what is necessary to make business work and they, unlike both sides of the political aisle, know that if something doesn't work, you don't continue trying to make it work hoping that at some point it will.




As a pragmatist Donald Trump hasn't made wild pie-in-the-sky promises of a cell phone in every pocket, free college tuition, and a $15 hour minimum wage for working the drive-through at a Carl’s Hamburgers.




I argue that America needs pragmatists because pragmatists see a problem and find ways to fix them. They do not see a problem and compound it by creating more problems.




You may not like Donald Trump, but I suspect that the reason people do not like him is because:




(1) he is antithetical to the “good old boy” method of brokering backroom deals that fatten the coffers of politicians;




(2) they are unaccustomed to hearing a candidate speak who is unencumbered by the financial shackles of those who own them vis-a`-vis donations;




(3) he is someone who is free of idiomatic political ideology; and




(4) he is someone who understands that it takes more than hollow promises and political correctness to make America great again.





Listening to Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders talk about fixing America is like listening to two lunatics trying to “out crazy” one another. Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio are owned lock, stock, and barrel by the bankers, corporations, and big dollar donors funding their campaigns. Bush can deny it but common sense tells anyone willing to face facts is that people don't give tens of millions without expecting something in return.




We have had Democrats and Republican ideologues and what has it brought us? Are we better off today or worse off? Has it happened overnight or has it been a steady decline brought on by both parties?





I submit that a pragmatist might be just what America needs right now. And as I said earlier, a pragmatist sees a problem and understands that the solution to fix same is not about a party, but a willingness and boldness to get it done.



People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance, but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives, and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#24
Unless the GOPers quickly coalesce behind Kasich, the only competent GOP alternative left, then you might as well prepare for Trump. I don't blame the Trump supporters at all, they know what they want. I blame the anti-Trump people, they offer no viable alternative. Trump shouldn't even be that hard to beat, the GOP doesn't seem to have the will to do it though, and the longer they tarry in their indecisiveness the more the window closes.
Kasich will not even win Ohio
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
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#25
Im honestly confused as to why Kasich hasnt conceded already the man has less of a chance than a snowball in hades.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,932
8,662
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#27
Why do you feel he appeals to the darker nature? Righteous indignation is not dark at all. People have had enough. He gives people hope of making things right again, beginning with respecting the Constitution and our sovereignty.
You know I love you brother so I hope you won't get upset with me saying this Trump guy is reeeeally bad news. I fully understand his appeal and am as angry as anybody that the GOP has lied over and over with promises of stopping the current wicked occupant of the White House. But step back a sec and truly look at Trump. I don't need to chronicle his record. It speaks for itself. "make America great again" might as well be obama's "hope and change".
I used to think the only GOP lever I couldn't pull in the general was Bush, but I don't see me voting for this guy. Of course my arm has already told me it would fall off if I pulled a Democrat lever, so it's write in, or stay home for me.

If you wanna get crazy with the end times stuff, maybe "at the sound of the last TRUMP" has something to do with this guy! LOL
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,195
6,536
113
#28
I AM NOT a Trump fan...........believe I've made this quite clear for some time now.......... :)

However, the idea of comparing him to THE Antichrist doesn't work. Simply because (as I understand Scripture) THE Antichrist will be loved and respected by the World. He will be a UNITER of the Worlds people.

Trump is ANYTHING BUT a uniter........so I can't see comparing him to THE Antichrist.

Now............small "a" antichrist? Sure, anyone who is NOT FOR Christ is anti-Christ by definition.

:)
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
1,039
113
#29
The Antichrist will most likely be a pope
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#30
dry run - noun - a rehearsal of a performance or procedure before the real one (Oxford Dictionaries)

the hallmark of the trump campaign up until now has been deception...deceiving around a third of republicans into believing that this big government minded left of obamacare planned parenthood defending democrat campaign donor is somehow a conservative...

scripture tells us that the rise of the antichrist is likewise accompanied by deception...for example 2 thessalonians 2:10 indicates that the lawless one will come "with all the deception of wickedness"... paul also explains in 2 thessalonians 2:3 that "the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed"

unlike God satan is of course not an omniscient actor... his schemes to deceive christians into apostasy...no matter how well laid out...must be understood by him to be subject to possible failure due to unforeseen or underestimated factors... therefore it would be only logical for him to first undertake one or more 'dry runs' to determine if his plans to deceive christians and lead the church into apostasy are ironclad enough to guarantee success...

the following are examples of ways in which donald trump has already led numerous christians not only into political madness but also into spiritual deception and apostasy...

first i will address the claimed 'christian' credentials of trump himself to demonstrate that he has deceived his followers into thinking that he is a christian or at least that a trump presidency would be beneficial to christianity...


  • trump claims to attend marble collegiate church in manhattan...the church reports that he is not an active member
  • trump refers to a late pastor of marble collegiate church...norman vincent peale...as his pastor... peale is best known for his pop psychology self help book 'the power of positive thinking'...a forerunner of the modern 'word of faith' error...that among other things blended the repetition of confident mantras with the new age 'law of attraction' as a guarantor of success in life
  • trump associates primarily with prosperity preachers such as paula white and kenneth copeland
  • trump has made a considerable amount of money from casinos...essentially profiting from the losses of others...and taking advantage of gambling addicts...enriching himself at their expense
  • some of trump's casinos contain strip clubs
  • trump has been featured in playboy magazine and posed on a cover with a woman in the process of undressing
  • trump stated at the family leadership summit that he has never asked God for forgiveness...he said that when he does something wrong he doesn't 'bring God into that picture'
  • trump is a proud serial adulterer who has cheated on at least two wives and brags about sleeping with 'very happily married and important women' in his book 'the art of the comeback'...before anyone responds with 'david was an adulterer too'...rethink trump's behavior in light of his statements that he has never asked God for forgiveness...unlike real christians trump is an unrepentant person living in willful sin
  • on numerous occasions trump was given the opportunity to quote his favorite scriptures and declined...when he finally attempted to do so in a CBN interview...he quoted a 'chapter' from proverbs called 'never bend to envy' that doesn't actually exist
  • in a speech at liberty university trump falsely associated 2 corinthians 3:17 which states "where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" with political liberty and american style government...when in fact the verse is clearly referring to spiritual freedom from jewish style legalism in christ
  • in a rally in fort george iowa trump publicly ridiculed fellow candidate ben carson's claim to have experienced a radically changed life after just a few hours of surrender...arguing that 'it doesn't happen that way'... trump clearly does not understand the christian's new birth or the power of the holy spirit to produce a changed life...and evidently he doesn't know much about the apostle paul
  • when pope francis implied during his visit to mexico that donald trump isn't christian...trump's response only revealed his ignorance of basic christianity...as well as a liberal tendency towards religious political correctness...stating that 'no leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man's religion or faith'... in addition to being hypocritical given trump's previous questioning of carson's faith...this response demonstrates an unawareness of the role of christians and christian leaders in identifying wolves in sheep's clothing...and implies a deeply liberal religious mentality in which everyone is entitled to being accepted as a christian simply because they say they are...

in spite of these and other disqualifiers...trump's 'christian' supporters still insist that he is a christian...or at least buy into his promise to protect christians...but how can trump protect christianity when he doesn't even know what it is? how can trump's supporters be deceived into regarding this unrepentant twister of scripture and denier of christian doctrine and hero of false teachers as a christian or even a potential friend of true christians?

next i will take up some of the behaviors that trump provokes in his followers in the context of the statement in matthew 7:16 that "by their fruit you will recognize them"

multiple videos of the treatment of protesters at trump rallies show that trump encourages his followers in acts of violence and gratuitious abuse of other people...for example...


  • almost routine videos of trump supporters assaulting protesters at rallies
  • an interview with trump after a 'black lives matter' protester was pushed to the ground at a rally in which trump remarked that 'maybe he should have been roughed up'
  • a rally in vermont in which trump encouraged his security staff to confiscate a protester's coat...remarking on the sub zero temperatures just outside
  • a rally in nevada just this monday where trump said of a protester...'You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They'd be carried out on a stretcher.'...and then added 'I'd like to punch him in the face.'

when confronted with these episodes trump's 'christian' supporters vary between making excuses or even encouraging the behavior themselves...clearly trump has produced rotten fruit even in his 'christian' followers...

one of trump's most reconizable characteristics is his extreme pride...scripture has many things to say about prideful people...things trump's 'christian' supporters are apparently content to disregard...for example...

proverbs 8:13..."The fear of the LORD is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate."
proverbs 16:5..."Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD; Assuredly, he will not be unpunished."
proverbs 16:18..."Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before stumbling."
proverbs 21:4..."Haughty eyes and a proud heart, The lamp of the wicked, is sin."
proverbs 29:23..."A man's pride will bring him low, But a humble spirit will obtain honor."

wait...i thought trump loved proverbs?

pride is also included in a number of scripture's lists of the primary sins of the wicked...such as the ones in proverbs 6...mark 7...romans 1...2 timothy 3...

why any 'christian' would support someone whose character is so closely aligned with the bible's description of wickedness...why any 'christian' would want such a person to lead their nation...can only be explained by deception and apostasy...

finally i come to the attributes of donald trump that align with the attributes of the antichrist and associated end time prophecies...a series of 'near misses' that should prove unsettling to anyone not already held in the grip of this apostasy...


  • 2 thessalonians 2:4 describes the man of lawlessness as one "who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God." while trump has not yet claimed to be God...he most certainly 'exalts himself' on a regular basis...
  • daniel 7:8 speaks of a 'little horn' that daniel witnessed in a vision..."While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts." while i don't believe this verse is actually a future prophecy of the antichrist...many other christians do...and some of them are completely unphased by trump's suspicious habit of 'uttering great boasts'
  • daniel 11 describes an evil "king of the north" who may play a role either directly or through an imitator "at the end time" according to verse 40... verse 21 calls him and "despicable person"...much like trump...and indicates that he will "seize the kingdom by intrigue"...a hostile takeover much like what is going on in the republican party today...while verse 23 states that he will "practice deception" and "gain power with a small force of people"...trump of course has the support of only around a third of republicans...whose allegiance he has secured through deception... verse 30 says that he will "show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant"...as trump has shown regard for false prosperity preachers...and verse 32 says that "by smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant"...just as trump has turned his supporters to godless behaviors such as mobbing and assulting protesters... verse 36 states that he "will do as he pleases"...just as trump does and brags that he can do...and repeats the familiar description of trump as a person who "will exalt and magnify himself"... verse 37 which describes him to "show no regard...for the desire of women" may reveal in this king the same sort of misogyny displayed by trump in his clashes with megyn kelly...his leadership of the sexist and immodest miss america competition...his cavalier 'trophy' attitude towards the women he has had affairs with...and his sins of adultery against his wives...the verse states that he will "show no regard...for the desire of women"... finally verse 39 indicates that "he will give great honor to those who acknowledge him"...reminiscent of how friendly trump was with fellow candidate ted cruz so long as cruz 'acknowledged' his 'greatness'...
  • trump has suggested that due to his ability to 'make great deals'...he might be able to negotiate a peace between israel and the palestinians... optimistically supposing that in spite of the apparent intractability of this conflict trump is able to conclude such a peace treaty within a year...that leaves seven years left of two presidential terms in which a hypothetical 'president trump' could serve as guarantor of the deal... while i don't agree with that particular interpretation of daniel 9:27...many other christians do believe this prophecy refers to a future seven year peace treaty involving israel...yet trump's 'christian' supporters again don't seem phased in the least by this
  • revelation 13:5 states that there was given to the first beast "a mouth speaking arrogant words"...at this point i should barely have to point out the similarity to trump... also verse 3 tells how many people are "amazed" when the beast's "fatal wound was healed"...trump has survived numerous political 'wounds' that would have been...and in fact -have- been...'fatal' to other political candidates...the political equivalent of a 'false sign and wonder'

not only are trump's 'christian' supporters embracing a wicked deceiver...they are embracing someone whose characteristics and habits appear numerous times in end time prophecy as being those of satan's human lieutenants...

the extent of trump's control over his followers is evidenced by their enthusiastically joining him in a 'turn off the lights' chant when a saboteur cut his stage lights at a rally in georgia... it is clear that trump could get this crowd...which presumably included professing 'christians'...to compliantly repeat just about any silly thing he wants...

all he has to do now is tell them to take his 'mark' on their foreheads as in revelation 13:16...

"And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead"

oh wait...
View attachment 144833

the purpose of this thread...in case anyone deliberately misunderstands...has not been to argue that donald trump is the antichrist...

however if satan truly is either by design or by opportunity utilizing the trump phenomenon as a 'dry run' to find out how many professing 'christians' he can deceive and lead into apostasy in the end time...he can only be coming to one conclusion...

'this is going to be easy'

If there ever was a dry run for the anti- Christ it was Obama. He came out of nowhere,there is still hardly anything we know for sure about his background. He was called a messiah by some in the media. He turned the country upside down. He promised hope and change and everyone fell for it,twice. Even Christians,so called. The man mocks the Bible, said he was against abortion and gay marriage before he was elected,in a church,before the whole country and lied like a rug. Yet he was still elected again! I wont even go into his support of Muslims and his disdain for Israel and what I really think about him.But if there ever was a dry run for the anti-Christ it was definitely Obama. Already been done. The man has single handedly knocked America off its feet. The world no longer respects her, patriotism is basically dead,especially with the youth. We were told we are "not exceptional" and thanks to Obama the world believes it and so does most of the country. Obama is the worst president in history and went a long way to further satans agenda. Forget Trump, Obama already tore the country wide open and set us back 50 yrs.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#31
in anticipation of trump supporters posting any iteration of the following in response to my points exposing trump as a phony christian...

'well obama is a muslim'
'carson is a seventh day adventist'
'romney was a mormon'
'sanders is a jew'
'hillary is asdfsgjhhsg'
'we are electing a president not a pastor'

my reply is that the crime isn't being non christian...the crime is lying about it...that is what makes him a deceiver...

I cant prove Obama is a Muslim but I can sure prove he isn't a Christian. He was the first liar in chief, Utah is right.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#32
Let us go back to logic 101.

Saying that Trump is bad does not exclude the possibility that Obama is just as evil. It does not exclude the possibility that Hillary or Bernie would be worse.

Throwing gasoline on a fire created by the establishment we (but not Rachel as I understand it) so revile does not solve the problem. This is the problem with the Trump supporter.

I understand the sentiment and I've understood it since he's come on the scene. But it's time for conservatives to grow up and rediscover what is most important to us.

Oh wow,if you want to talk liar Hillary takes the cake!!! The woman is horrible and wicked and goes hand in hand with Obama.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#33
She does have a point in that a raging populist businessman appeals more to the darker nature of evangelical voters than a crazed liberation-theology, Saul Alinsky-addled former community organizer. We're pre-programmed to think Commies are bad, but a successful businessman presents more of a conundrum.

Quote "appeals more to the darker nature of evangelical voters

Can you explain this to me? What do you mean,dark nature?
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
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#34
You know I love you brother so I hope you won't get upset with me saying this Trump guy is reeeeally bad news. I fully understand his appeal and am as angry as anybody that the GOP has lied over and over with promises of stopping the current wicked occupant of the White House. But step back a sec and truly look at Trump. I don't need to chronicle his record. It speaks for itself. "make America great again" might as well be obama's "hope and change".
I used to think the only GOP lever I couldn't pull in the general was Bush, but I don't see me voting for this guy. Of course my arm has already told me it would fall off if I pulled a Democrat lever, so it's write in, or stay home for me.

If you wanna get crazy with the end times stuff, maybe "at the sound of the last TRUMP" has something to do with this guy! LOL
My Brother, I enjoy living and learning and I would never be angry with you for sharing valuable insight. Same with our brother Desdichado, I love what he brings to the table, and like you, he has integrity.

This may be a surprise to everyone here, but I'm not on the Trump bandwagon, I am however on the wagon of slaying these leftwing turds that come around here to vilify non-democrat candidates. The democrat party is evil and its destructive nature has blasted us back into the immoral stone age, and yet leftwingers come around here preaching false righteousness and I won't allow it to go unchecked.

If God said to me, "Utah, whoever you want to be the next President will in fact be the next President," my response to God would be immediate: John Kasich. I believe he would share too much milk-toast for my liking, but he is a man who truly loves God in Jesus Christ, and he has more integrity in his right pinky than all of Washington DC.

Thanks for watching out for me bro and having my best interest at heart. I'm always grateful!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#35
righteous indignation?

is that what you call beating up protesters? stealing their coats and sending them out into below zero winter temperatures?

is wanting to waterboard someone just because 'they deserve it' dark enough for you? what about applauding the thought of protesters leaving a rally on a stretcher?

more like unrighteous indignation...


Quote "is wanting to waterboard someone just because 'they deserve it' dark enough for you?"

I can't speak to the rest,I don't know about it. Waterboarding people because they deserve it, do you know what they did to the men in Benghazi? Do you know what they do to Americans they capture over there?! Waterboarding is nothing!! If we can protect our citizens here and abroad and get info why would we not do it? They aren't holding Sunday school teachers at Gitmo,these are terrorists,of the worst kind. They release them and they go back out and kill more Americans! More innocent people! Beheading Christians. Waterboard them because they deserve it? You better believe it!!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#36
You know I love you brother so I hope you won't get upset with me saying this Trump guy is reeeeally bad news. I fully understand his appeal and am as angry as anybody that the GOP has lied over and over with promises of stopping the current wicked occupant of the White House. But step back a sec and truly look at Trump. I don't need to chronicle his record. It speaks for itself. "make America great again" might as well be obama's "hope and change".
I used to think the only GOP lever I couldn't pull in the general was Bush, but I don't see me voting for this guy. Of course my arm has already told me it would fall off if I pulled a Democrat lever, so it's write in, or stay home for me.

If you wanna get crazy with the end times stuff, maybe "at the sound of the last TRUMP" has something to do with this guy! LOL


If it comes down to Hill or Trump what else can we do? Thats where it is headed. If people think Trump lies put her up against Hill, she is evil. If evangelicals sit down and dont vote again we get Hill. Look up liar in the dictionary and you'll see Hill,Bill and Obama hand in hand singing Kumbaya.
 
B

BradC

Guest
#37
Concerning waterboarding and any other form of torture to acquire information whether it be good or bad, these are individual terrorists that would strap a bomb to their bodies or to another device and we should be concerned about waterboarding. These terrorist have evil hearts and are motivated by evil period. They can not be trusted at any time or in any venue period. Many of you have the wrong idea about Donald Trump, but nothing could be said to convince you otherwise. You will have to see him as our active President and see what he is able to do. None of you can say that you know what the other candidate would do once they get in office and more than what Trump would do. So don't parade around in your pseudo-ego making all these claims about a man you simple have no affections for.
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
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#38
Quote "is wanting to waterboard someone just because 'they deserve it' dark enough for you?"

I can't speak to the rest,I don't know about it. Waterboarding people because they deserve it, do you know what they did to the men in Benghazi? Do you know what they do to Americans they capture over there?! Waterboarding is nothing!! If we can protect our citizens here and abroad and get info why would we not do it? They aren't holding Sunday school teachers at Gitmo,these are terrorists,of the worst kind. They release them and they go back out and kill more Americans! More innocent people! Beheading Christians. Waterboard them because they deserve it? You better believe it!!
Amen to this, Sister. These anti-water-boarding folks are hypocrites to the very core. Waterboarding is not good enough to save the lives of patriots that they themselves do not know, but if their kids were in harms way, you know full well they'd use any means necessary to save their children. Total, unmitigated hypocrisy at its finest. I have more respect for mosquitos than hypocrites. At least mosquitos make no bones about their intentions. That's integrity. Hypocrites can learn a thing or two about integrity from mosquitoes for sure.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#39
Concerning waterboarding and any other form of torture to acquire information whether it be good or bad, these are individual terrorists that would strap a bomb to their bodies or to another device and we should be concerned about waterboarding. These terrorist have evil hearts and are motivated by evil period. They can not be trusted at any time or in any venue period. Many of you have the wrong idea about Donald Trump, but nothing could be said to convince you otherwise. You will have to see him as our active President and see what he is able to do. None of you can say that you know what the other candidate would do once they get in office and more than what Trump would do. So don't parade around in your pseudo-ego making all these claims about a man you simple have no affections for.
I haven't made up my mind about Trump yet. But it may come down to that choice and thats how it seems to be shaping up. But as far as the terrorists,you are 100% right. Like the two in CA.Leave their child behind and kill coworkers that threw a party for them. smh Waterboarding is the least that should be done. That is why I love Israel. They know how to deal with terrorists,like the Munich Olympics. US could learn something from them.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#40
Amen to this, Sister. These anti-water-boarding folks are hypocrites to the very core. Waterboarding is not good enough to save the lives of patriots that they themselves do not know, but if their kids were in harms way, you know full well they'd use any means necessary to save their children. Total, unmitigated hypocrisy at its finest. I have more respect for mosquitos than hypocrites. At least mosquitos make no bones about their intentions. That's integrity. Hypocrites can learn a thing or two about integrity from mosquitoes for sure.

Shoot I recall one of my older cousins telling me a story. He had real bad temper tantrums when he was a kid. His mother talked to her doctor and said she was at wits end to know what to do. He would hold his breath till he turned blue.So the doc said "the next time he takes a fit and holds his breath hold his head under the sink with freezing cold water,that'll break him" So waterboarding is just a good old fashioned disciplining.If kids can handle it,terrorists can handle it. Now I don't think it should be used on children,Im just saying it was done. Used on a terrorist,you bet your behind!