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kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,296
4,749
113
the first time i saw that in the small country church that my 35+ year pastor friend teaches at, i had no idea how to open it, did not notice the wafer in the top.

luckily, i did not break it, took it, now i know!!
I know! It's funny, every Sunday everyone trying to open them and not spill them. I do mine before the pastor starts so I can have it ready. But the first time I was looking for the wafer. Someone smarter than me pointed it out. rofl
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I am truly sorry for your friends and the losses they have had. I just hurt when I think of people not being able to breathe and dying alone except for a Dr. or nurse at their side but no family members allowed to be with them... what a sad way to die without your family to comfort you. God please be with all those families and the people who suffered and died.
In Canada it was horrible, elderly people died alone, in their beds uncared for for days.......... because the workers were sick and they had no one to take care of the patients.... they had to send in the military to the nursing homes to care for them but by then it was a disaster.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
113
here in the u.s., there are more guns than people .

we will only be controlled to the level that we put up with....
That will end up meaning that we will be a large nation with firearms "hanging on the walls of our homes as decorations" after HR 5717 passes through. When I first saw this I thought it was just another democratic push to take away our guns, but no the more you examine it it is supported by both Democrats and Republicans, The "war times act" from Trump(signed because of C-19) not only controls n-95 mask but also who firearm/ammo manufacturers can sell to.

In the news certain things dominate the headlines and other things just never make the headlines so it's important to look at the things being passed that never make the major headlines. If you look close at these you will notice the tabs,,as you click on them you will see who sponsored this and it's cosponsors. As you examine this tab by tab notice the D or R (democrats or Republicans) who are promoting this it will shock you to realize that both sides do I think.

Here is the links to it one is a summery but you can read it's entire text(click that tab) or view it's co-sponsors ext to find who and from which party support it. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/5717 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5717/cosponsors?q={%22party%22:%22Republican%22}&searchResultViewType=expanded

What this bill will end up doing is removing firearms from who they choose and licensing who they choose while limiting the ammo you can purchase for the firearms you are licensed to posses. If you have a hunting license then you will be permitted to buy ammo for your hunting rifle but with a limit. If you do not have a license for a 12 gauge(example) then if you go to a sporting goods store and ask for a box of shells they will ask for your license(hunting and firearms possession) and run it and decide if you can purchase them or not. If you do not have a firearms license then you will not be permitted to buy ammo for another person and transfer it to them. If you have a license for an firearm you cannot sell it to another person unless it is transferred from one license holder to another license holder.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,204
4,939
113
That will end up meaning that we will be a large nation with firearms "hanging on the walls of our homes as decorations" after HR 5717 passes through. When I first saw this I thought it was just another democratic push to take away our guns, but no the more you examine it it is supported by both Democrats and Republicans, The "war times act" from Trump(signed because of C-19) not only controls n-95 mask but also who firearm/ammo manufacturers can sell to.

In the news certain things dominate the headlines and other things just never make the headlines so it's important to look at the things being passed that never make the major headlines. If you look close at these you will notice the tabs,,as you click on them you will see who sponsored this and it's cosponsors. As you examine this tab by tab notice the D or R (democrats or Republicans) who are promoting this it will shock you to realize that both sides do I think.

Here is the links to it one is a summery but you can read it's entire text(click that tab) or view it's co-sponsors ext to find who and from which party support it. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/5717 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5717/cosponsors?q={%22party%22:%22Republican%22}&searchResultViewType=expanded

What this bill will end up doing is removing firearms from who they choose and licensing who they choose while limiting the ammo you can purchase for the firearms you are licensed to posses. If you have a hunting license then you will be permitted to buy ammo for your hunting rifle but with a limit. If you do not have a license for a 12 gauge(example) then if you go to a sporting goods store and ask for a box of shells they will ask for your license(hunting and firearms possession) and run it and decide if you can purchase them or not. If you do not have a firearms license then you will not be permitted to buy ammo for another person and transfer it to them. If you have a license for an firearm you cannot sell it to another person unless it is transferred from one license holder to another license holder.
the bill was introduced by hank johnson, from ga. ( my state).

no surprise that a dude that thinks islands are floating ( look up hank johnson guam floating ) wants to control firearms.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
113
the bill was introduced by hank johnson, from ga. ( my state).

no surprise that a dude that thinks islands are floating ( look up hank johnson guam floating ) wants to control firearms.

lol, yes I keep looking at the "stimulus bill" because there is a lot of rumors(?) over Pelosi adding it or portions into it(one their arguing over now). In the second link I gave(same post,there are two) is a portion of HR5717 but same bill it's a little confusing as to the "R" because it abbreviated different ways, sometimes as "R" sometimes "Rep.", as in "Representative".

In the second link https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5717/cosponsors?q={%22party%22:%22Republican%22}&searchResultViewType=expanded it uses "Rep" to abbreviate "Representative" and then gives their names and in brackets say things like (R-MI-6) if you click on their names they are "Republicans" who also endorse HR 5717.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,790
3,362
113
Has any one seen this https://gbdeclaration.org/

The Great Barrington Declaration is a proposal, written and signed at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, Massachusetts on 4 October 2020 addressing the response to the COVID-19 epidemic. The declaration advocates an approach the authors refer to as "Focused Protection", based on statistical levels of risk, as opposed to blanket lockdowns. It asserts that such restrictions have attendant adverse affects on public physical and mental health, manifesting an especial burden for the underprivileged, and that the focus should instead be on "shielding" those most at risk, with fewer restrictions placed on the remainder of the population in order to "reduce the herd immunity threshold."

The declaration was authored by Sunetra Gupta of the University of Oxford, Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, and Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University. Cosignatories, across disciplines ranging from epidemiology, biostatistics, and public health, through psychiatry and self-harm, to finance and human geography, include Sucharit Bhakdi, Angus Dalgleish, Mike Hulme, Michael Levitt, Jonas Ludvigsson, Yaz Gülnur Muradoğlu, David Katz, and Karol Sikora.

Signed by
Medical & Public
Health Scientists
5,924

Medical
Practitioners
12,104

General
Public
166,275
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
43
Perhaps. But if the minions were really any good at creating viruses, they wouldn't need the vaccines to poison us with, now would they? :)
Well, they must be careful not to kill their own too.
Vaccines will serve a total different purpose imho. Already serve a total different purpose. And I am not speaking about those oldskool vaccines, which came with the best intentions.
I’m talking about vaccination programs of today and last decades where human beings turned into guinea pigs. Now it’s time to chip each pet with a unique code and link that to a system beyond our current understanding.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Just so ya know.......stats came from WHO, the CDC homepage, local news reports and national news reports.
......but hey, Snowflake.....don't forget to lock your doors, a virus might get in.

Local news report......it was reported by a city official that all hospital beds were occupied...we were at critical mass. Local reporter called several of those hospitals and was told they had plenty of beds. Was it the Dim that lied or the Hospital manager?

Don't forget to turn on CNN or MSNBC for your daily dose of misinformation and scare mongering.
You make assumptions about me ... so we know you are not objective so facts presented selectively cannot be considered.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
113
Has any one seen this https://gbdeclaration.org/

The Great Barrington Declaration is a proposal, written and signed at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, Massachusetts on 4 October 2020 addressing the response to the COVID-19 epidemic. The declaration advocates an approach the authors refer to as "Focused Protection", based on statistical levels of risk, as opposed to blanket lockdowns. It asserts that such restrictions have attendant adverse affects on public physical and mental health, manifesting an especial burden for the underprivileged, and that the focus should instead be on "shielding" those most at risk, with fewer restrictions placed on the remainder of the population in order to "reduce the herd immunity threshold."

The declaration was authored by Sunetra Gupta of the University of Oxford, Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford University, and Martin Kulldorff of Harvard University. Cosignatories, across disciplines ranging from epidemiology, biostatistics, and public health, through psychiatry and self-harm, to finance and human geography, include Sucharit Bhakdi, Angus Dalgleish, Mike Hulme, Michael Levitt, Jonas Ludvigsson, Yaz Gülnur Muradoğlu, David Katz, and Karol Sikora.

Signed by
Medical & Public
Health Scientists
5,924

Medical
Practitioners
12,104

General
Public
166,275

In post #169 in the link Penned gave, it has a link in the article he posted about it. Herd immunity would be good but many other doctors are not sure how many millions would die before the whole population caught it over and over until they developed herd immunity,or if we would.

So I suppose that's one approach to this,,, if there's some one in your family who might not survive it though because of age,health ect. letting it run it's coarse until there is herd immunity might not be good. I think that's the issue of mask/no mask,,no mitigation ect. verses mitigation mandates. It seems one is all for mitigation(probably has loved ones they think cant survive it) and those against it do not have family members in ill health/age to worry about.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,790
3,362
113
In post #169 in the link Penned gave, it has a link in the article he posted about it. Herd immunity would be good but many other doctors are not sure how many millions would die before the whole population caught it over and over until they developed herd immunity,or if we would.

So I suppose that's one approach to this,,, if there's some one in your family who might not survive it though because of age,health ect. letting it run it's coarse until there is herd immunity might not be good. I think that's the issue of mask/no mask,,no mitigation ect. verses mitigation mandates. It seems one is all for mitigation(probably has loved ones they think cant survive it) and those against it do not have family members in ill health/age to worry about.

Let us imagine a general who has been updated with all the known intelligence about the enemy. Your major objective is of course to win the war. But the current mission has many unknown variables. Take the invasion of Normandy for instance. The threat of the Axis powers we're threatening the last parts of Europe yet to be taken by the Socialist NAZI regime. Western civilization was in the balance including all people of faith. Variables like weather, secrecy, supply support, and a quick operation before reinforcements of Hitler's army.

America knew the loss of life would be great but failure meant the loss of life would be greater as Europe would of fell and eventually Hitler would focus on the East side of America. While the Japanese focused on the West side.

General Eisenhower on issuing the order to go ahead he drafted a statement accepting full blame in the event of failure.

He wrote: "Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based upon the best information available. The troops, the air and the navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault is attached to the attempt it is mine alone."

Gen. Sir Richard Dannatt
“Had D-Day failed, with a costly loss of men and equipment, it would have taken years not months to gather the strength for another attempt at invasion. The Russians would probably have continued their advance towards Western Europe, but at a slower pace due to more German reserves being available to be deployed against them. I don't think strategic bombing would have brought a solution, and the U.S would have switched its main effort to the Pacific.

Our current information is showing yes the virus is real and has a targeted group of people it mainly affects. If we fail in our attack plan now then we may see a greater loss of life and take years to recover. While our enemies who have no morals could care less about life. They will be busy planning evil while we recover both economically, physically, and mentally.

Lockdowns have seen suicide spikes, job loss, depression, and tyrannical behavior. If the economy goes into a depression then you will see more deaths. Keep in mind our enemies like China are increasing in size and some experts have said they in the number of ships have surpassed the US. They are focused on taking control of the South China sea including threatening American Allies. Beijing has been taken control and they are testing the forces on the India border.

A general must make a hard decision. Both involve the loss of life. But which one wins the war? Because losing the war could be detrimental to society.

Most of us have families who are battling cancer, elderly, or just sickly. I know I do. My parents are in their mid-sixties with health issues. They have made peace with life. Death is part of life and history has shown only a century ago you were lucky to live past 50. Your wife could die in childbirth. Your kid could die of diarrhea. And you could be cut by a rusty object and die from an infection.

The General knows that the individual he orders to go to battle may not return. Sometimes the odds of living were 4 to 5. Meaning 4 would die while 1 would live. He would have to know that some mothers will be without a son, a wife without a husband, or a child without a parent. It emotionally is hard but the mission has even greater problems if we never went to battle.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
113
Let us imagine a general who has been updated with all the known intelligence about the enemy. Your major objective is of course to win the war. But the current mission has many unknown variables. Take the invasion of Normandy for instance. The threat of the Axis powers we're threatening the last parts of Europe yet to be taken by the Socialist NAZI regime. Western civilization was in the balance including all people of faith. Variables like weather, secrecy, supply support, and a quick operation before reinforcements of Hitler's army.

America knew the loss of life would be great but failure meant the loss of life would be greater as Europe would of fell and eventually Hitler would focus on the East side of America. While the Japanese focused on the West side.

General Eisenhower on issuing the order to go ahead he drafted a statement accepting full blame in the event of failure.

He wrote: "Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based upon the best information available. The troops, the air and the navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault is attached to the attempt it is mine alone."

Gen. Sir Richard Dannatt
“Had D-Day failed, with a costly loss of men and equipment, it would have taken years not months to gather the strength for another attempt at invasion. The Russians would probably have continued their advance towards Western Europe, but at a slower pace due to more German reserves being available to be deployed against them. I don't think strategic bombing would have brought a solution, and the U.S would have switched its main effort to the Pacific.

Our current information is showing yes the virus is real and has a targeted group of people it mainly affects. If we fail in our attack plan now then we may see a greater loss of life and take years to recover. While our enemies who have no morals could care less about life. They will be busy planning evil while we recover both economically, physically, and mentally.

Lockdowns have seen suicide spikes, job loss, depression, and tyrannical behavior. If the economy goes into a depression then you will see more deaths. Keep in mind our enemies like China are increasing in size and some experts have said they in the number of ships have surpassed the US. They are focused on taking control of the South China sea including threatening American Allies. Beijing has been taken control and they are testing the forces on the India border.

A general must make a hard decision. Both involve the loss of life. But which one wins the war? Because losing the war could be detrimental to society.

Most of us have families who are battling cancer, elderly, or just sickly. I know I do. My parents are in their mid-sixties with health issues. They have made peace with life. Death is part of life and history has shown only a century ago you were lucky to live past 50. Your wife could die in childbirth. Your kid could die of diarrhea. And you could be cut by a rusty object and die from an infection.

The General knows that the individual he orders to go to battle may not return. Sometimes the odds of living were 4 to 5. Meaning 4 would die while 1 would live. He would have to know that some mothers will be without a son, a wife without a husband, or a child without a parent. It emotionally is hard but the mission has even greater problems if we never went to battle.

I dunno General I'm in my 80's and most of my children are in their 60's and so it's as if your asking me/us to let you guys keep the riches of Babylon afloat by laying down our lives. Do the precious things in Babylons economy mean so much to you that you will not endure wearing a mask for your family members that you spoke of and mine?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,790
3,362
113
I dunno General I'm in my 80's and most of my children are in their 60's and so it's as if your asking me/us to let you guys keep the riches of Babylon afloat by laying down our lives. Do the precious things in Babylons economy mean so much to you that you will not endure wearing a mask for your family members that you spoke of and mine?
The high risk people are exactly who people should be worried about. Meaning let herd immunity run through the younger or healthier population. The virus will spread at a slower rate once the majority of the population grows antibodies. We should only be wearing PPE (Personal protective equipment) in nursing homes, hospitals, or your elderly/ immune comprised family members. And they can choose to take extra precautions or not. My grandmother is in her 90s and she basically has the mindset if it is her time then so be it. We should only be focused on protecting these groups not locking up all groups. This is exactly what other experts have been saying. For example,

The Great Barrington Declaration is a proposal, written and signed at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, Massachusetts on 4 October 2020 addressing the response to the COVID-19 epidemic. The declaration advocates an approach the authors refer to as "Focused Protection", based on statistical levels of risk, as opposed to blanket lockdowns. It asserts that such restrictions have attendant adverse affects on public physical and mental health, manifesting an especial burden for the underprivileged, and that the focus should instead be on "shielding" those most at risk, with fewer restrictions placed on the remainder of the population in order to "reduce the herd immunity threshold."
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
113
The high risk people are exactly who people should be worried about. Meaning let herd immunity run through the younger or healthier population. The virus will spread at a slower rate once the majority of the population grows antibodies. We should only be wearing PPE (Personal protective equipment) in nursing homes, hospitals, or your elderly/ immune comprised family members. And they can choose to take extra precautions or not. My grandmother is in her 90s and she basically has the mindset if it is her time then so be it. We should only be focused on protecting these groups not locking up all groups. This is exactly what other experts have been saying. For example,

The Great Barrington Declaration is a proposal, written and signed at the American Institute for Economic Research in Great Barrington, Massachusetts on 4 October 2020 addressing the response to the COVID-19 epidemic. The declaration advocates an approach the authors refer to as "Focused Protection", based on statistical levels of risk, as opposed to blanket lockdowns. It asserts that such restrictions have attendant adverse affects on public physical and mental health, manifesting an especial burden for the underprivileged, and that the focus should instead be on "shielding" those most at risk, with fewer restrictions placed on the remainder of the population in order to "reduce the herd immunity threshold."

Isn't that what the vast majority have been doing including Trump,,refusing to wear mask and live as though it was nothing? If those who are petitioning for this are correct then why don't the masses already have herd immunity? You have to remember that doctors are trained to wear PPE's and take every precaution to not spread germs from themselves to their patients and to give themselves protection against infections from their patients.

So there are all these on this list of signers telling us not to wear the mask and stuff which is in disregard of how they were taught and there are the doctors and nurses who have been treating the C-19 patients all along. The doctors and nurses in the hospitals keep screaming "we need more PPE"s" and they seem to be really scared to catch it and take it home. That is now the doctors and nurses at the actual hospitals doing the actual treatment of C-19, some of which have died already from this.

The two of us are just people on the www anyway if you think about it and so what ever the government decides to do is what me and you both are going to be faced with anyway right? So if they decide to make everyone wear mask then they will and if they decide to let it run it's coarse that's what they'll do. lol, I don't think you really understand enough about herd immunity,or if it can be achieved with C-19 at all(too many reinfections) to decide to agree or disagree.

C-19 damages your internal organs each time your reinfected with it . After you catch it over and over you place yourself in the "compromised health" category because your organ function will degrade/diminish each time you catch it. So catch it, recover,,,catch it again(with damaged organs) and maybe recover a second time. Then if you catch it a third time and C-19 has done small amounts of damage to your organs twice,will you recover a third time? Their not only asking you to take it as the inevitable to watch the elderly die to gain herd immunity,,,their asking you to also catch it over and over and count yourself in the death toll.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,790
3,362
113
Isn't that what the vast majority have been doing including Trump,,refusing to wear mask and live as though it was nothing? If those who are petitioning for this are correct then why don't the masses already have herd immunity? You have to remember that doctors are trained to wear PPE's and take every precaution to not spread germs from themselves to their patients and to give themselves protection against infections from their patients.

So there are all these on this list of signers telling us not to wear the mask and stuff which is in disregard of how they were taught and there are the doctors and nurses who have been treating the C-19 patients all along. The doctors and nurses in the hospitals keep screaming "we need more PPE"s" and they seem to be really scared to catch it and take it home. That is now the doctors and nurses at the actual hospitals doing the actual treatment of C-19, some of which have died already from this.

The two of us are just people on the www anyway if you think about it and so what ever the government decides to do is what me and you both are going to be faced with anyway right? So if they decide to make everyone wear mask then they will and if they decide to let it run it's coarse that's what they'll do. lol, I don't think you really understand enough about herd immunity,or if it can be achieved with C-19 at all(too many reinfections) to decide to agree or disagree.

C-19 damages your internal organs each time your reinfected with it . After you catch it over and over you place yourself in the "compromised health" category because your organ function will degrade/diminish each time you catch it. So catch it, recover,,,catch it again(with damaged organs) and maybe recover a second time. Then if you catch it a third time and C-19 has done small amounts of damage to your organs twice,will you recover a third time? Their not only asking you to take it as the inevitable to watch the elderly die to gain herd immunity,,,their asking you to also catch it over and over and count yourself in the death toll.
Isn't that what the vast majority have been doing including Trump,,refusing to wear mask and live as though it was nothing? If those who are petitioning for this are correct then why don't the masses already have herd immunity? You have to remember that doctors are trained to wear PPE's and take every precaution to not spread germs from themselves to their patients and to give themselves protection against infections from their patients.
The vast majority would need a number. I'm not sure how many people are not wearing masks. I see more people wearing masks than not and I live in a very conservative state. Actually just found a poll.

image001_eb579df04824a2ddf28ce580470f6afc.fit-1520w.png
So you have 13% who are never masked.

Age 60+ of the population is the minority of the US population according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/

So if we take the 13% and switch it around to 87% while protecting the minority percentage of the population then herd immunity would spread faster in the younger population age groups that by all current data respond safely to Covid. Even the elderly are responding better due to better medical care.

As for Trump not caring. I suppose that is a matter of opinion. He supports masks but he also doesn't wear them if he isn't close to the public as in 6ft of more. He knew the risks but decided he would rather risk death than to be kept safe while the American people have to work, shop, and live in covid.

Masks do no good in less they are the N95 or air fed. They did a study on this. What do we see worn? Scarfs, neck guards, masks with vents, homemade cloth masks that are not 2 layers or more, etc. Pointless. Especially if you do not sanitize or discard it frequently.


So there are all these on this list of signers telling us not to wear the mask and stuff which is in disregard of how they were taught and there are the doctors and nurses who have been treating the C-19 patients all along. The doctors and nurses in the hospitals keep screaming "we need more PPE"s" and they seem to be really scared to catch it and take it home. That is now the doctors and nurses at the actual hospitals doing the actual treatment of C-19, some of which have died already from this.
Yes because they are working around immune comprised victims. As for really scared, I'm sure there are some in a localized setting or hot spots but what of those who are not scared and fear-mongering? Who do you choose to believe? Many experts believe C19 had mutated from the strand in March. As in it grew weaker. As to why that may be contributing to the higher survivability rate.

The two of us are just people on the www anyway if you think about it and so what ever the government decides to do is what me and you both are going to be faced with anyway right? So if they decide to make everyone wear mask then they will and if they decide to let it run it's coarse that's what they'll do. lol, I don't think you really understand enough about herd immunity,or if it can be achieved with C-19 at all(too many reinfections) to decide to agree or disagree.
If the government does something unconstitutional then no we do not have to obey. It is our inalienable God-given rights. No man can take or oppress them. Trying to prevent people from worshipping God goes against federal and state law.

As for understanding. I read a lot and research a lot. But no I am not a doctor. I just listen to doctors.

C-19 damages your internal organs each time your reinfected with it .
Can you be reinfected with covid 19?

-The immune response, including duration of immunity, to SARS-CoV-2 infection is not yet understood. Patients infected with other betacoronaviruses (MERS-CoV, HCoV-OC43), the genus to which SARS-CoV-2 belongs, are unlikely to be re-infected shortly (e.g., 3 months or more) after they recover. However, more information is needed to know whether similar immune protection will be observed for patients with COVID-19. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html

Basically, we do not know yet. The 6 people I personally know have only gotten it once. And recovered just nicely. 3 had it in the early months.

their asking you to also catch it over and over and count yourself in the death toll.
If true, well, this world isn't my home. I'm simply passing through.

I prefer data but unfortunately, this virus has had inflated data, misleading data, bias media news, testing problems, and polarization in the field of experts.
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
43
Isn't that what the vast majority have been doing including Trump,,refusing to wear mask and live as though it was nothing? If those who are petitioning for this are correct then why don't the masses already have herd immunity? You have to remember that doctors are trained to wear PPE's and take every precaution to not spread germs from themselves to their patients and to give themselves protection against infections from their patients.

So there are all these on this list of signers telling us not to wear the mask and stuff which is in disregard of how they were taught and there are the doctors and nurses who have been treating the C-19 patients all along. The doctors and nurses in the hospitals keep screaming "we need more PPE"s" and they seem to be really scared to catch it and take it home. That is now the doctors and nurses at the actual hospitals doing the actual treatment of C-19, some of which have died already from this.

The two of us are just people on the www anyway if you think about it and so what ever the government decides to do is what me and you both are going to be faced with anyway right? So if they decide to make everyone wear mask then they will and if they decide to let it run it's coarse that's what they'll do. lol, I don't think you really understand enough about herd immunity,or if it can be achieved with C-19 at all(too many reinfections) to decide to agree or disagree.

C-19 damages your internal organs each time your reinfected with it . After you catch it over and over you place yourself in the "compromised health" category because your organ function will degrade/diminish each time you catch it. So catch it, recover,,,catch it again(with damaged organs) and maybe recover a second time. Then if you catch it a third time and C-19 has done small amounts of damage to your organs twice,will you recover a third time? Their not only asking you to take it as the inevitable to watch the elderly die to gain herd immunity,,,their asking you to also catch it over and over and count yourself in the death toll.
All pandemics of the past came to an end when herd immunity was achieved. With the Spanish flu this caused over 50 millions deads.
Not sure on those damage inflected to the organs. What does keep coming back is some people complaining about a strong fatigue.
But I don’t find that much on organ damage but some pictures of the lungs.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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The vast majority would need a number. I'm not sure how many people are not wearing masks. I see more people wearing masks than not and I live in a very conservative state. Actually just found a poll.

View attachment 221753
So you have 13% who are never masked.

Age 60+ of the population is the minority of the US population according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/

So if we take the 13% and switch it around to 87% while protecting the minority percentage of the population then herd immunity would spread faster in the younger population age groups that by all current data respond safely to Covid. Even the elderly are responding better due to better medical care.

As for Trump not caring. I suppose that is a matter of opinion. He supports masks but he also doesn't wear them if he isn't close to the public as in 6ft of more. He knew the risks but decided he would rather risk death than to be kept safe while the American people have to work, shop, and live in covid.

Masks do no good in less they are the N95 or air fed. They did a study on this. What do we see worn? Scarfs, neck guards, masks with vents, homemade cloth masks that are not 2 layers or more, etc. Pointless. Especially if you do not sanitize or discard it frequently.




Yes because they are working around immune comprised victims. As for really scared, I'm sure there are some in a localized setting or hot spots but what of those who are not scared and fear-mongering? Who do you choose to believe? Many experts believe C19 had mutated from the strand in March. As in it grew weaker. As to why that may be contributing to the higher survivability rate.



If the government does something unconstitutional then no we do not have to obey. It is our inalienable God-given rights. No man can take or oppress them. Trying to prevent people from worshipping God goes against federal and state law.

As for understanding. I read a lot and research a lot. But no I am not a doctor. I just listen to doctors.



Can you be reinfected with covid 19?

-The immune response, including duration of immunity, to SARS-CoV-2 infection is not yet understood. Patients infected with other betacoronaviruses (MERS-CoV, HCoV-OC43), the genus to which SARS-CoV-2 belongs, are unlikely to be re-infected shortly (e.g., 3 months or more) after they recover. However, more information is needed to know whether similar immune protection will be observed for patients with COVID-19. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html

Basically, we do not know yet. The 6 people I personally know have only gotten it once. And recovered just nicely. 3 had it in the early months.



If true, well, this world isn't my home. I'm simply passing through.

I prefer data but unfortunately, this virus has had inflated data, misleading data, bias media news, testing problems, and polarization in the field of experts.

Your saying both things then. At first you give a media(NBC) poll of mask wearers as proof but then at the end of your post you say that you prefer data but unfortunately it's inflated,misleading,bias ect.

Lets see this simple...

Your saying that those most at risk "should wear mask" and that the rest should go on as normal and let it run its coarse. This C-19 began in Wuhan around December of 2019, It spread around the earth by early 2020 and has infected millions that they know of. Now from the beginning(first few months) there was no mask mandates as we remember from the news in that they wanted to save the n95 mask for medical,first responders ect.

So no one wore mask up to this point in time during the C-19 pandemic because the government said don't do it because of shortage https://www.businessinsider.com/fau...cause-doctors-shortages-from-the-start-2020-6 So then by early July they began suggesting wearing mask https://www.wired.com/story/how-masks-went-from-dont-wear-to-must-have/

So by late June/early July we began wearing mask as the date on the poll in your post (July 20-26,2020). Now this is 10th of October of 2020 and so we have worn them somewhere around 90 days. That is according to the NBC poll you gave not everyone was wearing them.

In the early Spring(spring break) we all saw on the news the young gathering at the lakes and beaches in large groups. When the protest began(multiple times) we all saw in the news large groups gathered not wearing mask/social distancing ect. As the election campaigns ramped up the same none social distancing ect.

So then in review of this from December of 2019 when this began no one wore mask or social distanced except those that chose to do so up till early July. After that the government suggested we wear mask along with other mitigation. Now this is October 10th 2020 and so for all but a little over 3 months people have done exactly what you are suggesting about not wearing them and letting it run it's coarse. So in the last 11 months no one wore mask(as you endorse) for 8(eight) of the eleven months and for 3(three) months some of the people wore them.

So what you are suggesting is exactly what has been going on(no mask,mitigation) and it has not brought herd immunity at this point in time. So then if what your suggesting from the petition is what the majority of the US has been already doing for this eleven months and it hasn't worked why do you think we should think it ever will? You have to remember what your suggesting is exactly what the majority are doing and have done anyway.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I don't think you really understand enough about herd immunity,
Agree, and we do not know yet if this is even possible with this virus.
Herd immunity does not happen without huge consequences to the economy and society .... people think life can just go on as normal .. it does not work like that
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I dunno General I'm in my 80's and most of my children are in their 60's and so it's as if your asking me/us to let you guys keep the riches of Babylon afloat by laying down our lives. Do the precious things in Babylons economy mean so much to you that you will not endure wearing a mask for your family members that you spoke of and mine?
Sad the mentality some Christians have adopted....