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iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
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Sad the mentality some Christians have adopted....

I agree, I think that they may not have thought through the things me and you have discussed about cellular immunity and the other matters involved. I don't see as to how anything would change with the Great Barrington Declaration because it goes against their oath https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=20909 to prevent disease first.

Secondly if it made any sense that no mitigation were to ever be beneficial then by now it would be apparent because the masses have gathered at every event possible against advice to not do so all along and provided an study of it's own self, that is this is eleven months into an pandemic and their defiance has not brought about the results the petition suggest.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
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All pandemics of the past came to an end when herd immunity was achieved. With the Spanish flu this caused over 50 millions deads.
Not sure on those damage inflected to the organs. What does keep coming back is some people complaining about a strong fatigue.
But I don’t find that much on organ damage but some pictures of the lungs.

Here's something interesting to read about the swine flu in that it is "the mother" to the many different strains that mutated from it https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291398/ which may help you to understand that herd immunity was never achieved but rather it "mutated" into different strains from an "mother" and is still present today in one form or another. Because of this it is deadly at different ratios but as well as it mutated and became less lethal on it's own it can mutate and appear again which is why scientist give it the respect they do each year.

Covid 19 is not a mutated strain of H1N1 it is "novel" meaning novelty,as in no one has ever had it so I would not compare it to H1N1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1 https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...MIrYSUleiq7AIVCo7ICh2nhAs3EAAYASAAEgJgp_D_BwE
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,024
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In Canada it was horrible, elderly people died alone, in their beds uncared for for days.......... because the workers were sick and they had no one to take care of the patients.... they had to send in the military to the nursing homes to care for them but by then it was a disaster.
:cry::cry::cry::cry: It is so sad and I feel for all the families across the globe who have lost their loved ones.
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
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Here's something interesting to read about the swine flu in that it is "the mother" to the many different strains that mutated from it https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291398/ which may help you to understand that herd immunity was never achieved but rather it "mutated" into different strains from an "mother" and is still present today in one form or another. Because of this it is deadly at different ratios but as well as it mutated and became less lethal on it's own it can mutate and appear again which is why scientist give it the respect they do each year.

Covid 19 is not a mutated strain of H1N1 it is "novel" meaning novelty,as in no one has ever had it so I would not compare it to H1N1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1 https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...MIrYSUleiq7AIVCo7ICh2nhAs3EAAYASAAEgJgp_D_BwE
But infection happens the same ways. So anyone having been responsible with the flu can do that with corona too.
Covid19 is a mutated coronavirus. When scientists can’t call a civetcat a civetcat they should not be doing science. If this virus was caused in China it is time to hold them accountable.
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
43
Your saying both things then. At first you give a media(NBC) poll of mask wearers as proof but then at the end of your post you say that you prefer data but unfortunately it's inflated,misleading,bias ect.

Lets see this simple...

Your saying that those most at risk "should wear mask" and that the rest should go on as normal and let it run its coarse. This C-19 began in Wuhan around December of 2019, It spread around the earth by early 2020 and has infected millions that they know of. Now from the beginning(first few months) there was no mask mandates as we remember from the news in that they wanted to save the n95 mask for medical,first responders ect.

So no one wore mask up to this point in time during the C-19 pandemic because the government said don't do it because of shortage https://www.businessinsider.com/fau...cause-doctors-shortages-from-the-start-2020-6 So then by early July they began suggesting wearing mask https://www.wired.com/story/how-masks-went-from-dont-wear-to-must-have/

So by late June/early July we began wearing mask as the date on the poll in your post (July 20-26,2020). Now this is 10th of October of 2020 and so we have worn them somewhere around 90 days. That is according to the NBC poll you gave not everyone was wearing them.

In the early Spring(spring break) we all saw on the news the young gathering at the lakes and beaches in large groups. When the protest began(multiple times) we all saw in the news large groups gathered not wearing mask/social distancing ect. As the election campaigns ramped up the same none social distancing ect.

So then in review of this from December of 2019 when this began no one wore mask or social distanced except those that chose to do so up till early July. After that the government suggested we wear mask along with other mitigation. Now this is October 10th 2020 and so for all but a little over 3 months people have done exactly what you are suggesting about not wearing them and letting it run it's coarse. So in the last 11 months no one wore mask(as you endorse) for 8(eight) of the eleven months and for 3(three) months some of the people wore them.

So what you are suggesting is exactly what has been going on(no mask,mitigation) and it has not brought herd immunity at this point in time. So then if what your suggesting from the petition is what the majority of the US has been already doing for this eleven months and it hasn't worked why do you think we should think it ever will? You have to remember what your suggesting is exactly what the majority are doing and have done anyway.
Do you know the virus was circulating the world up to a year before it was officially recognized?
When doctors from China warned the world, western politicians choose to ignore and sided with the fascist regime of China.
Why would anyone take their instructions serious today?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
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But infection happens the same ways. So anyone having been responsible with the flu can do that with corona too.
Covid19 is a mutated coronavirus. When scientists can’t call a civetcat a civetcat they should not be doing science. If this virus was caused in China it is time to hold them accountable.

By way of explanation,,, COPD is "chronic obstructive pulmonary disease" but one person may have emphysema another might have asthma(but rare) chronic bronchitis,inhalation of chemicals ect. the point is though that all though all of these fall under the heading COPD there are different approaches to treating them because they are caused by different things.

And in the same thought "influenza" (Flu) in one thing while Corona-virus is another "thing". Both of the two attack the respiratory system and have some similar symptoms but also different symptoms because they are different "things". Because they are different "things/disease's" they are treated differently and are mitigated differently.

You have caught the seasonal flu probably multiple times without having longtime damage to your organs here is a link to what they are finding in patients who from C-19 (first one I grabbed there are others if you do a search on www) https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/07/14/covid-autopsies In C-19 patients one of the symptoms that stands out differently from the common flu is the "blood clotting".

Now if you read the link and others you find then you'll realize that whats happening to those who become infected with C-19 is that their blood begins to "clot" in their veins as it's circulating through their circulatory system. These clots then become lodged in different places, lungs,brain,kidney,liver ect. and since the blood flow then is restricted to that "spot" it no longer receives oxygen/nutrition and so that "spot" dies.

Some people recover from C-19 without any problems because the clotting did not advance as much or at all. In others when they recover they may have holes where the clots killed spots in their lungs or maybe kidney,liver brain ect... So sometimes they may recover and have respiratory damage or not or only slight damage(100 percent lung function reduced to 80 percent) or worse. Some may have kidney damage others neurological damage but everyone's a little different in degree of damage.

So then unlike the seasonal flu where you catch it and this isn't the issue catching C-19 multiple times will/could "create it's own preexisting health conditions". So if you catch it and you recover but have 10 percent organ damage then since your body has preexisting health conditions caused by a prior infection with C-19 when you recover again it will cause more organ damage. So catching it over and over will eventually do the same thing it does to those with compromised health issues(fatal) but some people will catch it multiple times before their organs are that compromised.
 

Fundamental

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
540
226
43
By way of explanation,,, COPD is "chronic obstructive pulmonary disease" but one person may have emphysema another might have asthma(but rare) chronic bronchitis,inhalation of chemicals ect. the point is though that all though all of these fall under the heading COPD there are different approaches to treating them because they are caused by different things.

And in the same thought "influenza" (Flu) in one thing while Corona-virus is another "thing". Both of the two attack the respiratory system and have some similar symptoms but also different symptoms because they are different "things". Because they are different "things/disease's" they are treated differently and are mitigated differently.

You have caught the seasonal flu probably multiple times without having longtime damage to your organs here is a link to what they are finding in patients who from C-19 (first one I grabbed there are others if you do a search on www) https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/07/14/covid-autopsies In C-19 patients one of the symptoms that stands out differently from the common flu is the "blood clotting".

Now if you read the link and others you find then you'll realize that whats happening to those who become infected with C-19 is that their blood begins to "clot" in their veins as it's circulating through their circulatory system. These clots then become lodged in different places, lungs,brain,kidney,liver ect. and since the blood flow then is restricted to that "spot" it no longer receives oxygen/nutrition and so that "spot" dies.

Some people recover from C-19 without any problems because the clotting did not advance as much or at all. In others when they recover they may have holes where the clots killed spots in their lungs or maybe kidney,liver brain ect... So sometimes they may recover and have respiratory damage or not or only slight damage(100 percent lung function reduced to 80 percent) or worse. Some may have kidney damage others neurological damage but everyone's a little different in degree of damage.

So then unlike the seasonal flu where you catch it and this isn't the issue catching C-19 multiple times will/could "create it's own preexisting health conditions". So if you catch it and you recover but have 10 percent organ damage then since your body has preexisting health conditions caused by a prior infection with C-19 when you recover again it will cause more organ damage. So catching it over and over will eventually do the same thing it does to those with compromised health issues(fatal) but some people will catch it multiple times before their organs are that compromised.
Seems you know your stuff.
Thanks for your time and sharing the information with me.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
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Seems you know your stuff.
Thanks for your time and sharing the information with me.

Your welcome, at the moment I think the best thing to do is to try your best to not to catch it until they/we know more about it, I think that's the best advice at this moment in time,,,buy yourself and your loved ones time.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Your welcome, at the moment I think the best thing to do is to try your best to not to catch it until they/we know more about it, I think that's the best advice at this moment in time,,,buy yourself and your loved ones time.
Just an fyi..

This is the first time someone is reported to have died from a second spell of coronavirus. However there have been some reported cases of reinfection worldwide, most recently a 25-year-old resident of Washoe County in Nevada in the United States.
.....
The man had no underlying health conditions but similarly to the Dutch woman, suffered a more severe episode the second time.

n The Lancet Infectious Diseases, researchers said: "Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 has been reported in at least four individuals worldwide. Thus, previous exposure to SARS-CoV-2 does not necessarily translate to guaranteed total immunity.


Link

There are cases of reinfection, this is not good news.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
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Just an fyi..

This is the first time someone is reported to have died from a second spell of coronavirus. However there have been some reported cases of reinfection worldwide, most recently a 25-year-old resident of Washoe County in Nevada in the United States.
.....
The man had no underlying health conditions but similarly to the Dutch woman, suffered a more severe episode the second time.


n The Lancet Infectious Diseases, researchers said: "Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 has been reported in at least four individuals worldwide. Thus, previous exposure to SARS-CoV-2 does not necessarily translate to guaranteed total immunity.

Link

There are cases of reinfection, this is not good news.

Yes the reinfections are not good news it reminds me of the worst case scenario we discussed in another thread. I don't think very many realize what that could mean ten years down the road so I tip e toe around it but You seem to understand what it could mean.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Yes the reinfections are not good news it reminds me of the worst case scenario we discussed in another thread. I don't think very many realize what that could mean ten years down the road so I tip e toe around it but You seem to understand what it could mean.
Yes I do

I recently read an article about the effect of reading sources that only confirm what one already believes.... not good!!
And seriously it does not help when certain high profile pastors add fuel to the flame who have no background in science.

...and other people that think we have some kind of supernatural immune system... smh
.... and some other people who keep stating the elderly and unhealthy as being most at risk as though their lives do not matter..more smh
.. and no one knows the strength of their own immune system under different pathogens... it is very complex

Very frustrating.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
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Yes I do

I recently read an article about the effect of reading sources that only confirm what one already believes.... not good!!
And seriously it does not help when certain high profile pastors add fuel to the flame who have no background in science.

...and other people that think we have some kind of supernatural immune system... smh
.... and some other people who keep stating the elderly and unhealthy as being most at risk as though their lives do not matter..more smh
.. and no one knows the strength of their own immune system under different pathogens... it is very complex

Very frustrating.

It is very frustrating but I remind myself that words like IGg, t cells,cellular immunity,herd immunity or how long blood cells live may not be understood by everyone which gives me an amount of patience with them. I have things to do for a while be back later.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,362
113
Yes the reinfections are not good news it reminds me of the worst case scenario we discussed in another thread. I don't think very many realize what that could mean ten years down the road so I tip e toe around it but You seem to understand what it could mean.
If Gate is still here it could mean even more bad news.
I have friends doing their part to help that go viral. Masterpiece!
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,565
4,502
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He never denied it existed...
not talking about one person just people in general.

you go back and look at some threads on here back in Feb and there were people on CC denying it and saying virus was a hoax.

I mean really. Short memories!
and nobody was taking any measures to contain it, even when people were dying, and you were being warned.

People werent even taking it seriously.

Its a kindness that you were being warned about it and your leaders and govt were urged to take action.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,196
4,928
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not talking about one person just people in general.

you go back and look at some threads on here back in Feb and there were people on CC denying it and saying virus was a hoax.

I mean really. Short memories!
and nobody was taking any measures to contain it, even when people were dying, and you were being warned.

People werent even taking it seriously.

Its a kindness that you were being warned about it and your leaders and govt were urged to take action.

it was not kindness to ruin people's businesses for a model made by a scientist who later admitted the models were way off...
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,107
1,048
113
not talking about one person just people in general.

you go back and look at some threads on here back in Feb and there were people on CC denying it and saying virus was a hoax.

I mean really. Short memories!
and nobody was taking any measures to contain it, even when people were dying, and you were being warned.

People werent even taking it seriously.

Its a kindness that you were being warned about it and your leaders and govt were urged to take action.

If they build a tower after a flood comes and their language is confused then they will invent an language that will enable all of mankind to overcome the confusion. In the day the door was shut and and the flood came those forty of rains prevailed on those men then. As if forty feet of water seeping under their door is only an hurdle they will mount up an tower against it but to him and his grains forty will prevail again against it.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
it was not kindness to ruin people's businesses for a model made by a scientist who later admitted the models were way off...
No one believed those models.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Correct. This is the important point to note. It seems that almost all those associated with Trump were infected in Cleveland. One has to wonder what actually happened to bring this about. Was there a deliberate attempt to sabotage the Trump administration. In any event, he has recovered and is back in the White House.
That is hilarious, why does it matter, the economy is all that matters right?
He flaunts himself with no mask what do you expect, the virus is airborne
This virus is blown way out of proportion right?
"Sabotage" haha with a virus no worse than the seasonal flu.

When: Thursday, February 27
The claim: The outbreak would be temporary: “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”

The problem here is people cannot accept their idol, their man, "God sent man" has flaws and make mistakes .. so they blame the science.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
it was not kindness to ruin people's businesses for a model made by a scientist who later admitted the models were way off...
Is it an act of kindness to not be prepared, one of the wealthiest countries on the planet less prepared than countries in Africa, to what everyone knew was coming........ even George Bush Jr. made a speech about it?

So much of the what happened was due to lack of preparation, the lock down was the result of lack of preparation.

When: Thursday, February 27
The claim: The outbreak would be temporary: “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle—it will disappear.”

This is not how a country prepares.