Can Men and Women Be Platonic Friends?

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notonmywatch

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]I don't think Descartes had many friends.

He was the one who famously said 'I think, therefore I am'
A horse:

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Descartes:

download (67).jpg

Please don't ever put Descartes before the horse.
 

Lanolin

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The Friends tv show never had the three men and three women sit on couches discussing Greek philosophy, but they did stay friends...I think.

I dont know, do you discuss Greek philosophy with your friends?

I am sure I recall one poster on CC asked if anyone was an alpha or beta or omega.
 

MaryM

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Nov 25, 2022
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Most men say men and women can't be platonic friends. And most women say men and women can be platonic friends. How is each party defining 'friend', and why do they disagree?

Absolutely can. I have many dear male friends.
 

Lanolin

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Has anyone here read Symposium by Plato?

I would be interested to find out if anyone actually has. Otherwise I dont really know what people are talking about when they are using the term 'platonic'.

Its ok to confess your ignorance. You might learn something new.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Most men say men and women can't be platonic friends. And most women say men and women can be platonic friends. How is each party defining 'friend', and why do they disagree?
We are to view females believers as sisters in Christ and daughters of the King. Godly reverence and fear would be the appropriate response.
 

CharliRenee

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Sure possible, not always easy but absolutely yes. Some men and women don't care to keep the friendship going without benefits but those are not really friends then.

If a friendship is awesome and cared for, absolutely!!
 

Sculpt

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Apr 18, 2021
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Has anyone here read Symposium by Plato?

I would be interested to find out if anyone actually has. Otherwise I dont really know what people are talking about when they are using the term 'platonic'.

Its ok to confess your ignorance. You might learn something new.
I read a little Plato in my college Philosophy course. What I read was introducing 'the dialectic', and I'm not sure which work of Plato it was (that was a long time ago) but think it was Statesman.

I remember it was the first reading assignment and I had mismanaged my time. It was late evening the night before class, so I tried to just skip some introduction and jump right in to reading Plato... Oh my... it was by far the most difficult reading the entire semester. I found it very difficult to decipher. When you're trying to read dialectic from an ancient two thousand and half year-old foreign culture, you might need all of that schema to understand what you're reading.

It wasn't difficult to understand Plato's concepts when they're interpreted for you in textbooks, but reading the translation directly can be a different matter.

Since then I don't think I read anything from Symposium. What's your thoughts on it, Lanolin?
 

Lanolin

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I read a little Plato in my college Philosophy course. What I read was introducing 'the dialectic', and I'm not sure which work of Plato it was (that was a long time ago) but think it was Statesman.

I remember it was the first reading assignment and I had mismanaged my time. It was late evening the night before class, so I tried to just skip some introduction and jump right in to reading Plato... Oh my... it was by far the most difficult reading the entire semester. I found it very difficult to decipher. When you're trying to read dialectic from an ancient two thousand and half year-old foreign culture, you might need all of that schema to understand what you're reading.

It wasn't difficult to understand Plato's concepts when they're interpreted for you in textbooks, but reading the translation directly can be a different matter.

Since then I don't think I read anything from Symposium. What's your thoughts on it, Lanolin?
I've never read Plato

so, the term 'Platonic' I dont quite understand

I know what being a friend means but being a platonic friend? I dont think so. My friends have never discussed Greek philosophy with me and vice versa.

I do read an 2000 year plus old ancient text that was originally written in Greek though - its called the New Testament.

Jesus did say famously of friendship...when speaking to his disciples....I no longer call you my servants, I call you my friends

as for men and women, well the problem there is that men do treat women like (paid or unpaid) servants a lot of the time esp in marriage, and vice versa. Thats not really a friendship, thats kind of like using a person. I dont know, I guess on one hand some peeps feel the need to bribe others to be their friends.

I think friendship needs to a be a mutual thing rather than one sided. Friendship has is free though it might have obligations, I feel that men and women dont often communicate what that payment really is. Some call it love while for others its just code for s-e-x. Im sure Ive heardin christian literature people say of relationships (not friendships) that you have to fill up that 'emotional bank account' or 'tank'.

Then people talk about 'friends with benefits' well what exactly is the 'benefit' part of it.

if you watch the friends TV show 4 of the 6 friends lived together and they were always hanging out at each others apartments or coffeeshop ALL the time. No one I know really does that even when they are flatting unless they are part of a gang....!

I also feel that some people mistake people being nice or friendly for friendship. They could be polite but behind your back they only just tolerating you, like people do when they are in customer service roles. They want a customer to be happy and satsifed but not so needy that they always coming back and being too dependent on you...lol anyway

just my thoughts.
 

Lanolin

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I have observed that Quaker friends hang out together a lot and worship in silence, but they talk a lot at other times.

There is no mention of Plato.

I also observe that they can sometimes form cliques too, like friends who have known each other for a very long time talk about things that someone new has no idea about. But the whole thing about friendship is SPENDING TIME with that person.

You have to feel safe around your friends that they are NOT going to turn on you and throw you under the bus like an enemy would do. I guess thats the trust thing. Friends would give their lives for you, because they like you not for what they can get out of it.
 

Sculpt

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I've never read Plato

so, the term 'Platonic' I dont quite understand

I know what being a friend means but being a platonic friend? I dont think so. My friends have never discussed Greek philosophy with me and vice versa.
The way the author of this thread is using the term "platonic friends" means being, or having, a very supportive and close opposite sex friend. It implies that they are not just acquaintances, but rather devoted friends, but not meaning exclusive. It's used in contrast to a romantic or sexual relationship.

The modern use the term "platonic love" has only a partial connection to Plato's writings in Symposium. The term platonic love does not exist in Symposium. In Symposium, Socrates is quoted discussing how people should advance from love of sexualized body beauty to love of the divine beauty, that of essence, soul and wisdom.
 

Lanolin

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I think Sandy went backwards on this one then...

 

Golfball

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Feb 4, 2023
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Hmmmm...?

I'll try to answer this question as honestly as possible from one man's perspective.

First of all, I think that I can honestly say that I've had or still have two platonic female friends (one more so than the other, in my own estimation) that I met (not in person) on this very website.

One of them is married, and one of them is currently engaged to be married soon.

So, yeah, from that perspective, I'd say that it's possible for a man to have platonic female friends.

That said, I need to say quite a few more things as well in order to give you a fuller picture of what I truly believe or to better explain to you how I normally define the word "friend".

For starters, I absolutely HATE (I'm tempted to say ABHOR) communicating with people via written text alone. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I HATE IT WITH A PASSION. For me, it's one of the lowest forms of communication possible (with the obvious exception of God's word, the Bible), and I sometimes am even offended by being relegated solely to letters and symbols which appear on someone's computer screen or cellphone. If I want that type of "friendship", then I could always click on one of those artificial intelligence (AI) "friend" links that appear as ads on social media websites such as Facebook (FAKEbook). Not my cup of tea. Thanks, but no thanks.

For me, under normal circumstances, true friendship entails at least the following:

"And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend." (Exodus 33:11)

Personally, I don't mind initially "making a friend" via written text, BUT if they're truly a "friend", then I believe that there ought to be what I would call a "natural progression" after that. In other words, unless this "friend" is married or engaged and a "natural progression" might give the "appearance of evil" if we got closer, I believe that a true friendship should at least progress to the point where the two "friends" speak to each other on the phone. If that "natural progression" goes smoothly, then there quite possibly should/could be a further "natural progression" to where the two "friends" actually speak face to face...even as God and Moses did.

If such "natural progressions" don't exist, then I, personally, question whether or not someone is truly my "friend".

An acquaintance?

Sure.

A "friend"?

Highly doubtful...at least in my own mind (others are certainly free to disagree).

To be completely honest, I believe that one very real reason why such a "natural progression" doesn't take place is because one of the two parties doesn't want anything more than a platonic relationship, and they're therefore hesitant to even possibly give the wrong impression that they might be interested in anything more than just that.

Also, if someone is truly my "friend" and/or truly considers me to be their "friend", then we should actually care about each other, and even "faithfully wound" each other at times out of genuine concern for one another.

"Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." (Proverbs 27:6)

"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." (Proverbs 27:17)

If someone is truly my "friend", and if I'm truly somebody else's "friend", then we need to have real vested interests in each other's well-beings, and those interests may include us having to "faithfully wound" each other at times, or to address things in each other's lives which may need addressing for our own potential benefits.

Personally, I ABHOR "kiss ups" or "the deceitful kisses of an enemy". To me, that's superficiality and pretentiousness, and there's literally nothing that I ABHOR more than those two things.

As I said once before on a thread that I started here, "iron sharpens iron"...and cotton balls don't. Imagine a file with grates on it sliding roughly over another piece of iron in order to hopefully smooth out some rough spots. Yeah, those types of scenarios are often necessary, figuratively speaking, where two real "friends" are concerned.

Again, this is only my own life's experiences that I'm about to describe, but I can honestly say that 90 something percent of my alleged "friends" throughout my lifetime didn't give a rat's furry bottom about me in reality. Again, it was all superficiality and pretense, and I ABHOR those two things.

I must also add this:

"A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity." (Proverbs 17:17)

Do your "friends" truly love you at all times, or do they hide from you when you're in need?

I'll leave you all to answer that question on your own.

I'll end with this:

"A man that has friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother." (Proverbs 18:24)

A true friendship should be give and take on both ends.

If you're the only one giving, then, in my estimation, the other party isn't truly your "friend" (unless there's some sort of situation where they can only receive...like sickness, or a handicap, deep depression, etc., etc.).

Just my two cents worth.
What does it mean when a man wants to be just friends and starts seeing and being w another woman is it guilt?
 

Lanolin

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dont you know you can only be friends with ONE woman at a time, Its like a man breaks some unspoken rule if he has more than two women friends. ..?!

but women are allowed more than one woman friends, and I am sure they can have more than one man friend.

Just make sure that your friends are also friends with each other. If they dont like each other that much well thats just gonna be a problem.