Is marriage worth it?

[GaryA]

I'm not sure how you're coming to some of these conclusions, but I'll try to clarify.

When I say I think it's impossible for someone to self-service without sinning, I of course I believe that goes for all people, regardless of gender.

As for your belief of the exact opposite -- that one can do it without sinning...

Maybe it also has to do with each individual person's process as to how they get interested in the first place. Again, I'm trying to think of how to keep this family-friendly.

I don't know what it's like for other people, but with me, I'm a very emotional, relational person. In order to even have those feelings in the first place, I have to think of it in the context of an emotional, relational situation. I don't get those feelings just by looking at someone who's good-looking. Rather, maybe it's a situation in which a guy I've known for a bit says something especially understanding or comforting, etc. It's the fact that he took the extra time and effort to care that interests me.

So if the feelings are somehow activated for me, I can't just "think of nothing." But that's just me. I'm thinking about things like, "What if something worked out between me and this guy?" But then I'm leaning towards having inappropriate feelings about someone who isn't mine and I'm not married to, and I see that as being wrong.

Well, what to do next? Try to make up some fantasy scene about some make-believe character from a show or movie, or someone who doesn't exist? That doesn't seem right either, because then I'm attaching my feelings to someone who isn't even real and, in my mind, is saying all the right things and showering me with all the affection I could ever imagine.

Which also doesn't seem right to me either because then I'm attaching my feelings to something unrealistic, whereas in real life, a real person will have their own feelings and needs has to be considered. I can't just envision some guy heaping me with one-sided praise and adoration, because in real life, consideration needs to be reciprocated.

Yes, I know I overthink everything -- but that's just how I've always been. And I know that for me, thinking about such things results in me... Well, thinking about my own wants way too much, structuring all my thinking around me.

And if I give too much of a footing to my own thoughts, it gets harder to think about all the work that goes into caring for, and serving, someone else.

So for myself, I try not to think in those ways if I can avoid it, because for me, it just winds up in dead ends.

This is good - really good - because, it gets us to the real crux of the matter concerning the different ways that men and women approach this issue.

What you have said here is perfectly natural and normal - from a woman's perspective; however, from a man's perspective, it is quite different.

(I am assuming that, in every case, you are using the word 'feelings' in an emotional sense and not in any physical sense.)

In the context of what I have been talking about, "feelings" are non-existent - not in the picture.

And, this is one area where men are different than women.

Women, by necessity [it seems], cannot separate 'sex' from 'feelings' - which is understandable - that is the way God made her to be - to a woman, everything is-or-seems-to-be [automatically] associated with 'feelings'.

However, I am somewhat surprised if/that you cannot separate 'masturbation' from 'feelings'. In a way, it kind of "blows my mind"... (To me, it makes no sense.)

Why?

Because, from a man's perspective, 'masturbation' has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with 'feelings'.

I have 'feelings' for a woman within the context of having a relationship with her. And, if I have a wife - and, want to "make love to her" - then, there are 'feelings' associated with the 'sexual' and 'sensual' components of that - because, I love her and want to please her, etc.

But, where [mere] 'masturbation' is concerned - there are no 'feelings' associated with it at all.

I find it difficult to believe that you think that no woman ever masturbates just for pleasure or to simply relieve sexual tension - without any emotional attachments.

Or, are you saying that - yes, it happens - but, it is "by definition" a sin if she does so.

Let me explain something to you... (I copied the first part from a post I made in 2013)

The following are the characteristically distinguishable 'realms' of human existence - as determined by self-awareness:

~ Physical
~ Physiological
~ Psychological
~ Mental
~ Emotional
~ Spiritual

'Physical' is the realm of the passive components of the body.

'Physiological' is the realm of active processes of the body - where direct communication (electrical or chemical) occurs within a body component or between body components.

'Psychological' is the realm of active processes of the brain - where physical-reality perception-and-thought occur.

'Mental' is the realm of intellect - where the thought and reasoning of the mind occur.

'Emotional' is the realm of feelings/desires - where the thought and reasoning of the heart occur.

'Spiritual' is the realm of the living essence of the person.

What you are talking about and what I have been talking about are two different things - what you are talking about occurs in the 'Psychological', 'Mental', and 'Emotional' realms - and, what I am talking about occurs in the 'Physical', 'Physiological', and 'Psychological' realms.

('Psychological' is the only common realm.)

The source of "sexual tension" begins in the 'Physiological' realm - and "affects" other realms as a matter of course. The "process" of "relieving" that "sexual tension" also begins in the 'Physiological' realm - and "affects" other realms as a matter of course.

For a man, there are no 'feelings' attached to [the act of] 'masturbation'.

And, in truth, it is the same with women - only, women see everything through an 'Emotional' lens - so then - everything is interconnected with 'feelings'.

Therefore, when women think about 'sex' (or, anything 'sexual') - at least the first five realms are all included/interconnected.

Don't misunderstand what I am saying - if a man makes love to his wife - the same thing exists for him - all five realms have their part in it.

However, when we talk about [mere] 'masturbation' - that is not the case - because, it does not automatically mandate the inclusion of another.

And, this is the basis for saying that it can be accomplished without it being sin.

Now - I can agree that - in many-or-most cases - it probably does become sin - because, in the mind of the man/woman, there is the inclusion of another.

(And, there are more detailed questions that could be asked - but, I will not go into those.)

However, I am also saying that this is not always necessarily the case.

Do you understand what I am saying?

 

[GaryA]

I would not compare ejaculations natural part of life except within certain limits and context (marriage).

It is certainly [biologically] natural and normal - just not having a built-in "automatic" cycle like the menstrual cycle of a woman.

Otherwise, it is shameful and gross to imagine the man acting like a monkey just prior to the ejaculation.

I am curious - would you care to explain in more detail just exactly what you meant by 'acting like a monkey'?

 

[Lynx]

Quite frankly, there are some other things we need to watch, also...

I don't think I'm old enough to watch that show.

 

[seoulsearch]

Thank you for asking. He is still going through testing at this time. Tonight my father had to go to emergency because they thought he had a heart attack. My mother has let me know that he is ok and didn't have a heart attack. So I have had both of them sick and then they have tested my mother who is having issues with her heart. So we are all leaning on prayer and each other just now. It will be in the New Year I believe before they have an answer to my husbands health issues. I would appreciate your prayers for my family.

I'm very sorry to hear you're going through all of this, Rose, and will keep your family in prayer. ❤️❤️❤️

Please keep us posted on how everyone is doing.

 

[seoulsearch]

However, I am somewhat surprised if/that you cannot separate 'masturbation' from 'feelings'. In a way, it kind of "blows my mind"... (To me, it makes no sense.)

The fact that you say you CAN separate it from feelings and apparently do it mechanically, right before God, without a hint of sin, doesn't make sense to me either. But if you say you can and that's what you do, then I take you at your word, knowing that everyone is different.

Like I keep saying, that's between you and God.

But as I've also said in other posts, we very obviously disagree about this and that's just how it is.

The whole reason I spoke up was to demonstrate that these things (obviously) work very differently for different people.

I find it difficult to believe that you think that no woman ever masturbates just for pleasure or to simply relieve sexual tension - without any emotional attachments.

This is something that's making it incredible frustrating and discouraging for me to even try to have a conversation with you.

Go back and count the number of times I've said something to the tune of, "I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR ME."

Apparently you repeatedly keep trying to extrapolate what I'm saying onto entire groups of people. In one of your other posts you also asked me if I was saying that such and such applied to only just one gender and not the other.

Yet I have said this to the point of ad nauseum across my other posts that I can only explain from my own perspective, not for anyone else -- if you want to know how other women think about this, you'll have to ask them.

I can't continue to try to talk to you when you seem to be absolutely fixated on taking what I say and applying it to entire genders, which I have emphasized over and over cannot be done, because I'm just one person, speaking for myself.

The only reason I spoke up in the first place is because, as @TabinRivCA said in her very insightful post, both genders struggle with this subject and I thought it might be useful for some to read ONE woman's point of view.

Whether you understand or believe how I think or what I feel doesn't matter. I know my own convictions and try my best to go (or NOT go) where God leads me, and that's all that counts.

I shared all of this and included my own inner thought process only because I hoped it might help others who are going through their own conviction process as well.

When I was going through Lutheran school, I had some great pastors and teachers who really did try. But there was always this feeling that most people were unwilling to talk about any difficult subjects except at a surface level, which always included repeated the same Bible passages we've all heard hundreds of times. And in the meantime, kids I knew were contemplating suicide because no one was really talking to us about coping with our feelings.

Growing up, I always wished I had a big sister or cool aunt who knew a littile about life whom I could ask questions and have "real" talks with. I told God that when I grew up, if I could, and with His permission, I would try my best to be that for other people.

And that's why I've said as much as I have.

I might not know all that much about life, but that's why I'm here -- to learn from others and also share what little I do know.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

I believe in true love for everyone as well. I wish life happened that way. If I found a man that believes the same as I do I would marry him. Hard to find that special person. I'm not a romantic anymore, that burned out. And yes, unfortunately it's all gross. I feel like this is a thread introducing children to sex.

There's an age limit of no younger than 13 on this site. Not many 13 year olds that don't know about sex.
And this is a legitimate topic. On a site that is almost entirely made of adults. Nor is there any rule saying sexual topics can't be discussed in a respectful manner.
And if someone gets really inappropriate there's always the report button.

 

[HeIsHere]

This thread started with the OP questioning whether or not marriage was worthwhile for any reason other than sex - quickly spun off course down the gutter on the issue of a woman's menstruation cycle - jumped into another gutter regarding a man's ejaculation "shame" - and, right on into the question of whether or not masturbation is a sin - of course - the thread is "wrecked" - and "does not know" - the thread is highly-focused on bits-and-pieces - it is not looking at the whole picture.

I totally agree that it has crossed some lines where unnecessary "exposure" of the subject matter to children is concerned.

What exactly is it that you are trying to say?

(Other than the painfully obvious.)

My point is I am amazed that in this hyper-sexualized society we live in, some Christians are caught in the lowest point of Maslow's hierarchy of needs as the rest of the world.

God does not leave anybody struggling with sin unless that is where they want to be, isn't that the whole point of salvation to be saved from sin.

 

[HeIsHere]

There's an age limit of no younger than 13 on this site. Not many 13 year olds that don't know about sex.
And this is a legitimate topic. On a site that is almost entirely made of adults. Nor is there any rule saying sexual topics can't be discussed in a respectful manner.
And if someone gets really inappropriate there's always the report button.

Why does it need to be discussed if everybody knows about it by the time they are 13?

I think people just want to discuss it because they have issues about it, then go see your pastor or counsellor it is a private matter.
It should always be a private matter.

 

[NightTwister]

I'm just gonna say I'm probably not the best one to give marital advice...

 

[Cameron143]

I'm just gonna say I'm probably not the best one to give marital advice...

You're just a slow learner. You've got it down now.

 

[Godsgirl1983]

I sat beside my husband of ten years today as the doctor talked about a genetic issue he has with his heart. It's serious and may require major surgery. Before the doctor came in I took his hand and prayed over him. He still has more tests to go through. And as scary as it all is, I wish with all my heart I could take this burden for him and be the one to have the surgery in his place.

I said that to say this, please grow up. Your POV is extremely immature and I'm going to chalk it up to you possibly just being young and not understanding what's coming out of your own mouth. Marriage in no way is worth for just for the sex. You pay those type of women and send them home, that's called a prostitute. God honors marriage, He has blessed marriage. I thank God every day for my husband and now I pray He will grant me more time with him, the best thing that happened in my life aside from accepting the Lord into my heart.

Praying for you and your precious husband 🙏


Right now I wish my reaction emojis were working because I'd use the red X here:

So you have no selling point for marriage then. Other then you want companionship. It's like sex

@ThereRoseaLamb has no need to give you a "selling point", what she shares in her post here and throughout the site sums it all up.

 

[TabinRivCA]

Praying for you and your precious husband 🙏


Right now I wish my reaction emojis were working because I'd use the red X here:

@ThereRoseaLamb has no need to give you a "selling point", what she shares in her post here and throughout the site sums it all up.

Re the emoji issue, many of us switched to Firefox and now have no problem. It was discussed in the Tech Forum😊

 

[GaryA]

ThereRoseaLamb has no need to give you a "selling point", what she shares in her post here and throughout the site sums it all up.

I am pretty sure that is not what he means - I believe he means it in the sense of what "sells" [someone] on marriage - i.e., what makes marriage worthwhile to [them].

 

[GaryA]

There's an age limit of no younger than 13 on this site. Not many 13 year olds that don't know about sex.
And this is a legitimate topic. On a site that is almost entirely made of adults. Nor is there any rule saying sexual topics can't be discussed in a respectful manner.
And if someone gets really inappropriate there's always the report button.

What you have said here is a good practical answer - and, I have nothing against it - but, the "issue" she is referring to is more about what children - without logging in - or even being a member - may be exposed to.

It is about the children outside of the CC community.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Praying for you and your precious husband 🙏


Right now I wish my reaction emojis were working because I'd use the red X here:

@ThereRoseaLamb has no need to give you a "selling point", what she shares in her post here and throughout the site sums it all up.

Thank you so much for your prayers, we appreciate them so much. God is God in the valley as much as He is on the mountain. We are just leaning on Him.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I'm very sorry to hear you're going through all of this, Rose, and will keep your family in prayer. ❤️❤️❤️

Please keep us posted on how everyone is doing.

Thank you sister, I will drop in from time to time and let you know. Thank you so much for your prayers.

 

[MsMediator]

-

It is certainly [biologically] natural and normal - just not having a built-in "automatic" cycle like the menstrual cycle of a woman.

The menstrual cycle cannot be compared to an ejaculation. While there are hormones involved with menstrual cycle, a woman can have her menstruation regardless of whether she is sexual. What you are saying is that ejaculating is just as natural and uncontrollable as peeing or pooping. I disagree with that as there is more mind involvement with ejaculating.

 

[MsMediator]

I am curious - would you care to explain in more detail just exactly what you meant by 'acting like a monkey'?

Acting like a low-IQ primate/animal, with no sense of control or awareness. With sex within marriage, there is love and feelings involved.

 

[GaryA]

What you are saying is that ejaculating is just as natural and uncontrollable as peeing or pooping.

Absolutely not - I said no such thing.

Did you somehow miss the significance of the words 'biologically' and 'automatic' in my statement?

Did you not understand what "just not having" meant?

I said it was natural - as in - a part of the normal function of the body - the way God designed it.

I indicated that it was different than the mensrual cycle of a woman.

 

[MsMediator]

I indicated that it was different than the mensrual cycle of a woman.

Ok, I thought you were linking ejaculation to menstruation, saying that both are essentially the same (biological and natural) but menstruation is automatic (which made me infer that ejaculation is not automatic). I misinterpreted non-automatic to mean uncontrolled (meaning it can happen at any time).