"Love" Prophecies Within the Church - Have You Found Them to Be Victorious - or Victimization?

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
#1
Hey Everyone,

Some discussions in the threads got me thinking about something I've personally gone through and have wondered if anyone else has experienced this as well.

I grew up in a very conservative Lutheran church that did not believe in things like personal prophecy (in fact, they bordered on saying tha such things were downright Satanic.) In my early adult years, I wound up attending an Assemblies of God church that basically offered an opportunity to hear a "personal prophecy" after every service or meeting you went to. It wasn't advertised this way, nor was it guaranteed. You simply went up to have someone pray with/for you, and in your heart, you would hope that they would drop a "word of knowledge" - presumed to be something from the Lord - during that time.

I went through a devastating time in my life in which I was desperate to hear any kind of good news I could get. I found myself clinging to even the slightest morsels of hope than anyone would give me. And a few times, I was even thrown an entire cracker - or all-out banquet - that I took hold of for years.

To make a long story short, I have had people in the church "tell" me that I was going to meet my husband in a certain amount of time (obvious, that didn't happen, as I am still single,) that I would have 4 children by a certain age (from not just one, but three well-meaning Christians who had no association with each other regarding me,) and that I would meet someone who would "make up for all the love in your life you've been missing, and have felt you've never had."

This was the ONE word of knowledge I "think" "might" have been fulfilled, BUT, it definitely wasn't the all-encompassing romance I had envisioned it to be. Rather, it was through a strictly PLATONIC friendship only (to emphasize this, he is seeing someone else) with a long-term inmate in a prison listened to, and prayed with me, through the toughest time I was going through at that stage in my life.

I have also been on the "receiving" end of this, with two guys at different times being "convinced" that God had put me into their lives because I was surely meant to marry them (thank you, but no - we were not right for each other at all.)

And I know people are going to immediately say, "But Seoul, it's not too late to have a family - think of Abraham and Sarah!!" Yes, I am aware of their story, and people have pointed it out to me my entire life. But at this stage of the game, due to a myriad of personal reasons, I no longer believe this is possible. First of all, my Mom (who has been married for over 50 years) always told me to put off having kids after I got married for at least 2-5 years, because, she told me, "You'll never get that time for just the two of of you back until the kids are all grown." It always seemed like sensible advice and I told God that if it was all right, this was what I planned to do.

In the years it would take me to meet, date, and be married to someone for this "grace" period (and at this age, most people already have kids as it is,) I would be well over 50 years old by then.

So how many of you out there (especially the ladies) would want to be giving birth to your first child well after the age of 50? Praise God to all of you who say yes, but for me, I've told God that I believe that for me, that time frame has passed.

People also seem to forget that Sarah and Abraham were extremely wealthy, and, unlike most of us, could afford any and every kind of help an advanced in age Sarah might have needed when raising Isaac. I'm not a Hollywood celebrity - if I had a baby in my 50's, I would have to raise him or her by myself, without a nanny or entourage.

I have a friend who was given a "prophecy" about her "future husband" that was so specific, the person even gave an estimation of his height (saying he would be "tall" - how tall is tall?!), an approximate hair and eye color (dark), and even hair texture (curly - but how curly is curly? What if he only had slightly wavy hair - and it happened to look straight on the day she met him?) to the point where my friend turned down any dates from any guy who did not meet these "descriptions" because she "wanted to be obedient and wait for the one the Lord had for her." In fact, she was partly afraid that if she DID go out with anyone else, she was actually DISOBEYING the Lord. This was YEARS ago (10 at least)... and she is still waiting.

These examples are only meant to give you an idea of things I've seen myself - so the point of discussion here is NOT these stories, but rather what YOU all have learned, seen, and experienced yourself or with others.

* Do you believe in "personal prophecies" about a future spouse? Have you had one come true, or saw it come true for someone else? How did it turn out?

* If someone specifically told you God "has someone for you," how long are you willing to wait until you start to think that maybe they were wrong?

* What about cases in which two people are supposedly "brought together by the Lord" - both the couple and everyone around them is certain - and yet they wind up getting divorced? (I've seen this happen several times in the churches I've been part of.)

* Have YOU ever given a "love prophecy" to someone else? (Told someone you believed God had someone for them?) How did it turn out?

* Do you believe that people should even be saying such things or making such "predictions" - under the guise of prophecy - to each other in the church?


I personally feel that I was a victim of well-meaning people - who, in the end, REALLY wanted to help, but wound up causing my heart a whole lot more damage than edification.

And because God has pulled me along and is getting me through it, I always pray very hard that He will not let me turn around and do this to anyone else.

It's a struggle because as a long-time Christian single, I want to be encouraging to others, but also not plant false hopes that I have watched people throw years of their life away over because they wanted so badly to believe. If a person received a word from the Lord, then I am 100% behind that. But if a person receives an empty pep talk with no substance but makes it SOUND legit ("I believe that the Lord is saying that you..."), I want to persistently learn how to weed out the true words from the false, and hopefully, help others do the same and spare them the grief.

No more wasted lives on false prophecies that were never even from God!

And for all of those who HAVE been given personal prophecies (they don't even have to be about love,) I would love to hear your story, and how it all turned out.

Thank you in advance for sharing!
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
916
632
93
#2
I have not been given a love prophecy, or prophecies in general, by anyone. The closest experience I had was when a devout prayerful woman told me that I will get married before this other person, which was not fulfilled because the other person is now married.

I would be leary of someone who gave me specifics such as who I will marry, when, etc.

I was prayed for with annointing oil by several pastors for a medical condition and was told that I will be cured. I guess this can count as a prophecy. One basically said if I'm not cured it is due to unbelief. Another Christian lady who was praying for me later told me to see a psychologist (it is a physical issue but was causing mental stress). She said I am cured if I believe it. My point is if the prophecy is unfulfilled, the person giving the prophecy can turn it around and say it is due to unbelief.
 

cinder

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2014
3,584
1,668
113
#3
When I was in churches that did the personal prophecy thing, I received a few (not about spouses or romance) but for the most part they tended to be generic encouragement along the lines of God is for you and is going to do awesome things in your life than full of specifics. Then again the prayer training I went through in that environment also included the saying "no names, mates, dates, or fates" mainly to protect everyone from an active imagination with a drive to be super spiritual because as others have pointed out too many specifics that aren't from God can really cause someone to live like they're being held hostage to that prophecy. As to the legitimacy of it I can only think of a handful of occasions in scripture where any sort of personal future telling happened through an intermediary so it doesn't seem to be something God does very often.

Personally I would have to be about 200% sure that something was God and exactly what God was saying before I told another person that this is what God was saying. I've never been that sure and so the times I've engaged in that direction it's always been asking people questions about impressions I have that might be from God or saying something to the effect of, this idea is in my head, might be God, might not but I'm just going to throw it out there for your consideration. Basically I'm ok with people disagreeing with me and my thoughts and don't need to make them feel like they're going against God by disagreeing with me.

And don't even get me started on the telling people if God doesn't do what I said or what you want then it's your fault for not believing enough thing. All I have to say about that is if God is so dependent on our co-operation to do what he says, then we have no guarantee about anything and he certainly isn't omnipotent enough. (Not saying that unbelief is never a factor in God moving, but I think that might be more along the lines of we don't ask or look for it because of unbelief rather than God is incapable of doing it).
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
#4
I want to thank you ladies for your heartfelt, informative, and relatable replies. I hope others will share their stories as well. It truly pains me to see other singles falling into these traps, especially since they are usually given by church people who sincerely think that they are helping.

You're both hitting on something that I've wanted to write about in another thread as well, maybe in the near future -- when people tell us that the reason such and such isn't happening in our lives, or that we're not healed, or we haven't met the right person, is because we're not doing enough. We don't have enough faith. We don't read our Bibles enough. We don't pray enough. We're not out there serving and witnessing NEARLY ENOUGH, and if we could just figure out what the actual quantitative value of "ENOUGH" really is (and then do it!!!,) God would finally heal us or send us the thing we're lacking.

I admit that sometimes I get so bitter over people handing out "personal prophecies" right and left that I want to give a tiny reminder that seems to be forgotten in modern times -- in the days of the Old Testament, if a prophecy was given that didn't come true, the "prophet" was deemed false -- and put to death.

I'm sure a lot of people would brush it off or excuse themselves as the exception to the rule for whatever reason, but it kills me that they will tell others how to be better Christians and strengthen their relationship with God when their own "words of knowledge" are falling to the ground like lead weights. Would they be as free and eager to give them if they took the penalty for false prophecy seriously? And I have to think about that for myself as well, because there are plenty of times when I want to give a person an overeager word of hope myself -- especially to younger singles, as time marches on for all of us.

One of my most favorite passages in the Bible is 1 Samuel 3:19, which states that absolutely everyone in the land knew that Samuel was a prophet, and that the Lord "let none of his words fall to the ground."

If this is true, why aren't the people who tell us these things being held responsible for every "prophetic word" they speak that doesn't come true?

(This is a bit of a rhetoric question - I know God holds us all responsible for our every word and action, but I wonder why there is little to no discipline for people who give others false hope while passing it off as a word from the Lord.)
 
Sep 5, 2018
90
38
18
#5
I think one has to be EXTREMELY careful when it comes to the idea of modern day prophecy. I've known many a person that claims to be a prophet simply to push their own agenda onto other Christian people.

I will be open in saying I have not studied nor have I bore much witness to "spirit gifts". However, I think that in todays world, there are many more things we need to concentrate on; Such as dealing with sin vs who's going to get married before whom.
 

cinder

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2014
3,584
1,668
113
#6
You're both hitting on something that I've wanted to write about in another thread as well, maybe in the near future -- when people tell us that the reason such and such isn't happening in our lives, or that we're not healed, or we haven't met the right person, is because we're not doing enough. We don't have enough faith. We don't read our Bibles enough. We don't pray enough. We're not out there serving and witnessing NEARLY ENOUGH, and if we could just figure out what the actual quantitative value of "ENOUGH" really is (and then do it!!!,) God would finally heal us or send us the thing we're lacking.
The really short answer, is because its so much easier to blame and believe that a person failed than it is to reckon with the idea that God is different than you thought and you're disappointed (or confused or angry or any other combination of a whole slew of emotions that you don't want to feel towards God) with who God has shown himself to be right now.

Not sure if I've told this story here before but sometime in 2019 I found out that a friend I had fallen out of touch with had passed away from cancer. And the thing that makes the circumstances of this death much more confusing for faith than most is 1) it was just tragic as she wasn't even 30 yet and left behind a husband and 4 year old son 2) back when we all knew each other (I co-led the outreach team where she and her husband got to know each other) her husband was miraculously healed of a deathly severe egg allergy.

So I can't help thinking that there's no one on the planet who is more convinced that God can and does heal than her husband. So more so in this situation than most others it's unreasonable to assume that there was lack of faith in God's power to heal the unhealable. And God had shown himself willing to do such for this man before. And I don't have an intellectual logical answer about how faith can survive what I expect feels like a betrayal under those circumstances (and God finally kinda told me to shutup because it wasn't my hurt so i didn't deserve the answer and the only satisfactory answer was not a logical one anyway) (hmmm, am I allowed to talk about God talking to me in a thread about do we hear from God for other people). What I'm left with as a result of being loosely connected with these circumstances is a great big question mark in my conception of God. And less certainty that he is going to exercise his power for me to magically make everything better (which is a huge selling point of our consumer churchianity) when I really need him to.

And I want to follow that up with something hopeful and brilliant, but mostly as I think back through the Bible, there are plenty of circumstances where God didn't stop the bad things from happening and didn't try to explain or defend himself (even the end of the book of Job, God never explains to Job why he had to suffer all that crap). It's just really hard to accept that God isn't answerable and accountable to us, he's God after all.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
#7
I think one has to be EXTREMELY careful when it comes to the idea of modern day prophecy. I've known many a person that claims to be a prophet simply to push their own agenda onto other Christian people.
Thank you for this, SigP226 -- EXCELLENT point.

I have noticed this as well, and it's something I've been wanting to write about in a thread but just never got around to it -- the subject of spiritual manipulation.

Although I was raised in church, I didn't find it to be particularly helpful when dealing with my own life traumas, though I went through a long period of following all the "good Christian advice." I studied the Bible, participated in everything I could cram into my schedule (including choir, which is pretty much a travesty -- or tragedy -- because I am NOT a singer,) worked in the kid's rooms, etc, because I was DESPERATE to get "closer to God" like everyone told me. But the more I did, the further I often felt from Him. (And you can't win for losing -- if I tried to tell anyone that, they would THEN do a 180 and instead of saying I wasn't doing enough, they would then say I was making it all about works and no wonder I wasn't getting closer to the Lord.) :rolleyes:

One of the most important things I learned during that time is that some, not all, but it seems like many, Christian leader's biggest concern isn't your spiritual growth.

What they actually desire most is to make you more like them, or to recruit you into promoting or donating to the work that THEY may be called for and you are not, or a belief system that they have made into their own personal idol, all the while saying or believing that they are doing the Lord's work.

Having been through this more than once in my own single spiritual journey, I feel extremely protective of other singles and do not want to see them fall into this same trap, if at all possible.

I always feel this urge to warn them of those who use passages such as 1 Samuel 15:23 to "keep you in line" when you don't automatically agree with what they say, scolding you with "For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry." I worry for newer Christians especially who are vulnerable to those who use legit-sounding "spiritual talk" and Bible passages in the wrong context and with the wrong intention, just to get them to do what they want.

Now granted, there are most certainly time when I can be rebellious and stubborn (aren't we all?)

But one of the most important questions I've learned to ask God when considering spiritual leadership is, "Does this person(s) want me to be more like You... or more like themselves?"
 
Mar 21, 2009
3,972
1,536
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New York
#8
That is not the gift of prophecy according to the examples we see in the New Testament.

That sounds more like someone trying to mimic the physic hotline fakers or the tarot card readers or horoscope writers.

People need to be taught what the scriptures show as examples of prophecy and then they will easily recognize the difference.

I believe in the gift of prophesy and the gifts of the word of knowledge and the word of wisdom.

And yet I also know that there are many who think they know what they are doing and they attempt to do this out of there own minds because they listened to some bad teaching about how to do it.

They do things like announce it. "this is a word of knowledge..." before they say it. Well it probably won't be.
Or "God told me to tell you..." and He probably didn't.
The ones about God giving you a beautiful woman to marry are always suspect since Paul said marriage was a choice. And prophesies about how your going to be some great one or accomplish great things is always suspect.

Prophecies that glorify Christ and call one to give up a sin they are hiding are probably legit. When the secrets of a mans heart is exposed and he falls on his face in repentance you know that you are probably dealing with the real deal. (1 Cor 14:25)

But avoid those who boast of there abilities to give you a word upon demand. I once had a man ask me "was it alright if he read my mail?" In hindsight I should have said "I am pretty sure that's a federal offence"

Needless to say he was way off. He missed it by a country mile. But I did not have the heart to tell him at the time. I figured he would mature as he kept growing and look back in embarrassment soon enough without me needing to make him aware of it at the moment.

Why do people do this sort of thing in the Pentecostal churches? Because of many reasons, just like in the church at Corinth there will be people who don't know what they are doing. The gift of prophesy is real and they see it manifest, then they want to do it also and they try to copy what they have seen when the Spirit is not speaking.

Knowing when the Spirit is speaking takes much prayer, and communing with the Spirit over time and learning His voice. How do these things get corrected in a Pentecostal church and the people become more mature in the manifestation of these gifts? The same way the Corinthians did, through paying attention to the scriptures about how to operate in these gifts and avoid confusion.

Many Assemblies of God churches have matured past the flakey, weird, prophesies and have taught their people how to speak only when the Spirit is speaking and to keep their mouths shut when the Spirit is not speaking. These churches are an awesome example of the gifts of the spirit operating in decency and in order and not as personal fortune tellers which never was the real gift.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
#9
True confession: I myself, of course, am guilty as charged, too.

Not long after I was given my own "Love Prophecy" (I was young, new to this belief, and very excited at the thought of the hope it could bring people,) I in turn prayed for a co-worker and told them that I believed "God was going to send them someone in the next few months."

Well, that co-worker DID meet someone within that time frame.

And while it took some time to show, this person they met wound up being a terrible partner -- selfish, high critical, and borderline emotionally abusive.

I'm sure I probably foolishly gave others "words of knowledge" as well over the years, because I was so enthused at what a word of "hope" could do for someone's spirit.

I can't remember exaclty when the light finally "clicked" for me, but I always remember this co-worker -- and have asked God to NEVER let me give such a (false) word like that to anyone else ever again.

I would rather say NO such thing for the rest of my life than raise someone's hopes, then watch them fall into complete and utter despair when it came "true."
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
#10
That is not the gift of prophecy according to the examples we see in the New Testament.

That sounds more like someone trying to mimic the physic hotline fakers or the tarot card readers or horoscope writers.

People need to be taught what the scriptures show as examples of prophecy and then they will easily recognize the difference.

I believe in the gift of prophesy and the gifts of the word of knowledge and the word of wisdom.

And yet I also know that there are many who think they know what they are doing and they attempt to do this out of there own minds because they listened to some bad teaching about how to do it.

They do things like announce it. "this is a word of knowledge..." before they say it. Well it probably won't be.
Or "God told me to tell you..." and He probably didn't.
The ones about God giving you a beautiful woman to marry are always suspect since Paul said marriage was a choice. And prophesies about how your going to be some great one or accomplish great things is always suspect.

Prophecies that glorify Christ and call one to give up a sin they are hiding are probably legit. When the secrets of a mans heart is exposed and he falls on his face in repentance you know that you are probably dealing with the real deal. (1 Cor 14:25)

But avoid those who boast of there abilities to give you a word upon demand. I once had a man ask me "was it alright if he read my mail?" In hindsight I should have said "I am pretty sure that's a federal offence"

Needless to say he was way off. He missed it by a country mile. But I did not have the heart to tell him at the time. I figured he would mature as he kept growing and look back in embarrassment soon enough without me needing to make him aware of it at the moment.

Why do people do this sort of thing in the Pentecostal churches? Because of many reasons, just like in the church at Corinth there will be people who don't know what they are doing. The gift of prophesy is real and they see it manifest, then they want to do it also and they try to copy what they have seen when the Spirit is not speaking.

Knowing when the Spirit is speaking takes much prayer, and communing with the Spirit over time and learning His voice. How do these things get corrected in a Pentecostal church and the people become more mature in the manifestation of these gifts? The same way the Corinthians did, through paying attention to the scriptures about how to operate in these gifts and avoid confusion.

Many Assemblies of God churches have matured past the flakey, weird, prophesies and have taught their people how to speak only when the Spirit is speaking and to keep their mouths shut when the Spirit is not speaking. These churches are an awesome example of the gifts of the spirit operating in decency and in order and not as personal fortune tellers which never was the real gift.

Thank you for this extremely interesting and helpful post, Scribe.

I loved what you said about wanting to tell the guy that "reading your mail" would be a federal offense, lol.

Since I had grown up in a church that utterly shunned such things, it was all very new to me and after all, I wanted to be "open to the Spirit" as I was being told to do. My old Lutheran church also believed in the cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, which I no longer believe (I personally believe all of the gifts are active today,) but I also completely agree that they are easily misused and misinterpreted.

Thank you very much for giving us some practical advice when trying to discern between Spirit-given and man-made. :)
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
16,971
4,152
113
#11
I'm reminded of something I read somewhere in the Bible... something about if somebody has dreamed a dream, let him tell a dream. What is the chaff to the wheat?
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,404
1,980
113
#12
I was saved into an AoG church and received at least one personal prophecy (probably more but this one stood out for some reason). He was a guest speaker at our youth group. He was basically calling up anyone who wanted to be prophesied over, so I went up.
It became clear, quickly, his "prophecies" were based on appearance and not substance. Me having a more rough around the edges look than most anyone else in the group was told I would "work with my hands, such as a mechanic, or something like that".
Weird since none of that sounded like anything I had an interest in, yet could see how I may look like the type.
And I noticed similar prophecies over others that seemed to be based around how they looked.
Needless to say such a thing never came to pass, and I didn't need to be a prophet to know it never would.

Also due to being a younger teen and very active in my faith and bold about it I was often told how i would do "great things for God one day" (always by Charismatics). I heard it so often that I began to believe it. But by the time I was 18 what turned out to be more of a novelty of being young and on fire faded away and I suddenly was just another Christian and no longer heard about the "great things" I would do.
Nor did these things ever happen. Or even come close. Quite the opposite I'd say, actually.

I also knew someone who was prophesied over that she would marry Carman (yes the 80s singer) despite never even having met him. She refused to date, convinced she was set to marry this famous, good looking, rich celebrity. She actually "met" him once, going to a place she knew he'd be. He shook her hand and moved on and shook others. She took that as a confirmation. I believe he was already married at the time as well.
10 years later she finally admitted to it not being real and gave up on the false prophecy. But 10 years of her life was wasted.

I witnessed many in such groups clinging desperately to prophecies or things they were convinced God told them, only to see, one by one, these things never come to pass.
One friend was convinced he and his ex wife were going to get back together despite her already having remarried.
After years he gave that up and married someone new. They went to a "prophetess" who told them lies about the pastor of my church. So they stood up in the middle of the service and began throwing accusations out against the pastor in front of the whole congregation, that this "prophetess" had told them.
It ended up nearly ruining the church and half the congregation left afterwards. People who had even helped build the building with their own hands turned on the pastor after 10+ years of going there.

So many in this forum push that these "prophecies" over people must be true yet I spent years watching myself and others, be let down again and again by these lies.
And no matter how many times they come up false you're expected to continue believing each new one.

And we've seen many come to this site who believe either through prophecy or self delusion, who God wants them to be with only to wonder what went wrong.

So I believe this culture of fortune telling disguised as prophecy so prominent among Christians is among the most destructive things happening among Christians today.

"Sometimes what we believe to be true from our supernatural pursuits is actually a fluke
A series of events that's used to distract you from the truth" ~Beautiful Eulogy
 
Mar 21, 2009
3,972
1,536
113
New York
#13
I was saved into an AoG church and received at least one personal prophecy (probably more but this one stood out for some reason). He was a guest speaker at our youth group. He was basically calling up anyone who wanted to be prophesied over, so I went up.
It became clear, quickly, his "prophecies" were based on appearance and not substance. Me having a more rough around the edges look than most anyone else in the group was told I would "work with my hands, such as a mechanic, or something like that".
Weird since none of that sounded like anything I had an interest in, yet could see how I may look like the type.
And I noticed similar prophecies over others that seemed to be based around how they looked.
Needless to say such a thing never came to pass, and I didn't need to be a prophet to know it never would.

Also due to being a younger teen and very active in my faith and bold about it I was often told how i would do "great things for God one day" (always by Charismatics). I heard it so often that I began to believe it. But by the time I was 18 what turned out to be more of a novelty of being young and on fire faded away and I suddenly was just another Christian and no longer heard about the "great things" I would do.
Nor did these things ever happen. Or even come close. Quite the opposite I'd say, actually.

I also knew someone who was prophesied over that she would marry Carman (yes the 80s singer) despite never even having met him. She refused to date, convinced she was set to marry this famous, good looking, rich celebrity. She actually "met" him once, going to a place she knew he'd be. He shook her hand and moved on and shook others. She took that as a confirmation. I believe he was already married at the time as well.
10 years later she finally admitted to it not being real and gave up on the false prophecy. But 10 years of her life was wasted.

I witnessed many in such groups clinging desperately to prophecies or things they were convinced God told them, only to see, one by one, these things never come to pass.
One friend was convinced he and his ex wife were going to get back together despite her already having remarried.
After years he gave that up and married someone new. They went to a "prophetess" who told them lies about the pastor of my church. So they stood up in the middle of the service and began throwing accusations out against the pastor in front of the whole congregation, that this "prophetess" had told them.
It ended up nearly ruining the church and half the congregation left afterwards. People who had even helped build the building with their own hands turned on the pastor after 10+ years of going there.

So many in this forum push that these "prophecies" over people must be true yet I spent years watching myself and others, be let down again and again by these lies.
And no matter how many times they come up false you're expected to continue believing each new one.

And we've seen many come to this site who believe either through prophecy or self delusion, who God wants them to be with only to wonder what went wrong.

So I believe this culture of fortune telling disguised as prophecy so prominent among Christians is among the most destructive things happening among Christians today.

"Sometimes what we believe to be true from our supernatural pursuits is actually a fluke
A series of events that's used to distract you from the truth" ~Beautiful Eulogy
Was her name Diane? Did she live in Dallas and have blonde hair? I knew her. She said she was going to marry Carmen. Went to Word of Faith.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
#14
I was saved into an AoG church and received at least one personal prophecy (probably more but this one stood out for some reason). He was a guest speaker at our youth group. He was basically calling up anyone who wanted to be prophesied over, so I went up.
It became clear, quickly, his "prophecies" were based on appearance and not substance. Me having a more rough around the edges look than most anyone else in the group was told I would "work with my hands, such as a mechanic, or something like that".
Weird since none of that sounded like anything I had an interest in, yet could see how I may look like the type.
And I noticed similar prophecies over others that seemed to be based around how they looked.
Needless to say such a thing never came to pass, and I didn't need to be a prophet to know it never would.

Also due to being a younger teen and very active in my faith and bold about it I was often told how i would do "great things for God one day" (always by Charismatics). I heard it so often that I began to believe it. But by the time I was 18 what turned out to be more of a novelty of being young and on fire faded away and I suddenly was just another Christian and no longer heard about the "great things" I would do.
Nor did these things ever happen. Or even come close. Quite the opposite I'd say, actually.

I also knew someone who was prophesied over that she would marry Carman (yes the 80s singer) despite never even having met him. She refused to date, convinced she was set to marry this famous, good looking, rich celebrity. She actually "met" him once, going to a place she knew he'd be. He shook her hand and moved on and shook others. She took that as a confirmation. I believe he was already married at the time as well.
10 years later she finally admitted to it not being real and gave up on the false prophecy. But 10 years of her life was wasted.

I witnessed many in such groups clinging desperately to prophecies or things they were convinced God told them, only to see, one by one, these things never come to pass.
One friend was convinced he and his ex wife were going to get back together despite her already having remarried.
After years he gave that up and married someone new. They went to a "prophetess" who told them lies about the pastor of my church. So they stood up in the middle of the service and began throwing accusations out against the pastor in front of the whole congregation, that this "prophetess" had told them.
It ended up nearly ruining the church and half the congregation left afterwards. People who had even helped build the building with their own hands turned on the pastor after 10+ years of going there.

So many in this forum push that these "prophecies" over people must be true yet I spent years watching myself and others, be let down again and again by these lies.
And no matter how many times they come up false you're expected to continue believing each new one.

And we've seen many come to this site who believe either through prophecy or self delusion, who God wants them to be with only to wonder what went wrong.

So I believe this culture of fortune telling disguised as prophecy so prominent among Christians is among the most destructive things happening among Christians today.

"Sometimes what we believe to be true from our supernatural pursuits is actually a fluke
A series of events that's used to distract you from the truth" ~Beautiful Eulogy
Thank you so much for sharing this, Sub.

Things like this are exactly what I've been thinking about when writing this thread and I think it's VERY important for people to talk about. There is so little knowledge of the Bible now days that most Christians, especially those who are new to what's taught as modern faith, just won't know any better.

I understand completely regarding "prophecies" being made to one's appearance.

I had a wonderful mentor once who told me about a woman she knew who was running late to a big church conference, and had been caught in a heavy rain storm. Not wanting to attend the meeting soaking wet, she changed into the only clothes she had in her car, which happened to belong to her teenage daughter, so naturally, they had a more juvenile style.

She was very excited when she was able to receive prayer from the conference leaders, but to her utter dismay, the woman leading the conference "prayed" over her and said, "God is telling you that it's time to grow up, dress and act more mature, and fully walk into the things of God as a grown woman... Stop dressing in these childish, girlish clothes, and start being a real adult if you are to fulfill your calling in the Lord."

OH MY GOODNESS. My blood was boiling just hearing that story. And I asked God to please, please, not ever let me forget that story -- judging solely based on appearance -- and to correct me whenever I slipped (which I have.)

Two of my most favorite stories in the Bible are when Samuel goes to the house of Jesse to anoint David as king. Samuel sees David's older brother and thinks, "Surely this is the Lord's anointed!", but God firmly tells Samuel NO, and that He looks at the heart rather than outer appearance.

I also love the story of Jeremiah in which God specifically told him, "Your family and friends might be smiling and embracing you, but I can tell you, in their hearts, they are planning to kill you."

Talk about cutting STRAIGHT to the heart.

Another excellent point you brought up Sub is the fact that I think almost EVERY Christian, at least those who have been part of the faith for a while, have had someone tell them in some way, shape, or form, that they are "special" and are going to "do great things for God" -- firmly planting visions of parting the Red Sea, commanding the dead to get up and walk, performing miracles no one has ever seen before (seeing as the Bible says we will do even greater things,) and converting hundreds, if not thousands of faithful new followers to the Lord.

All these grandiose scenes flash right before our ego-driven minds -- in the very same way that images of the latest Netflix movie are whirring across the screen as we're pondering these things, and the only bodies of water we're parting is the stream of water with which we're washing our hands for the 20th time that day.

While I know that most of the people who say these things have the best of intentions, I wish they would also think of the needless burden and stress they are placing onto other people and be held responsible for them.

Of course, we don't want to be lazy in our Christian walk, but on the other hand, what if we never fulfill this suppose "great calling" that people try to tell us we have -- not because we failed, or didn't do enough -- but because what we were told never actually came from God to begin with?
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
#15
Was her name Diane? Did she live in Dallas and have blonde hair? I knew her. She said she was going to marry Carmen. Went to Word of Faith.
Also @Subhumanoidal -

Was it by any chance, Prophetess Dianne Palmer?

I attended her services a couple of times when she visited a former church I was part of.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
10,036
3,651
113
#16
wow
no
I dont go in for that sort of thing. Some churches do and I think its very phony. I can mock those false prophecies as obviously something people want to hear that have itching ears.

All the prophesying Ive done has come from the Bible and its almost always to do with what God wants for His kingdom and His people (often in Revelation or Isaiah, the most prophetic books) and relates to Jesus - not ever so and so is going to marry so and so!
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,073
794
113
#17
I am not single, and I don't usually read this forum, but I decided to see what was posted in here yesterday, and saw this message.

Back when I was single, in my mid 20's, living overseas in a very marriage-minded culture, I started talking on the phone with a female friend from church I'd made who was several years older. She was very pretty, and at first I was kind of interested. But, probably to prevent me being interested and because we were getting close, she told me God had showed her who she was going to marry, and it was some preacher I knew of. She asked me if God had shown me who I was supposed to marry, saying it as if that were a very typical thing.

She had a vision about my brother, she said, which seemed to describe his situation when I talked to him. Then she said she had a vision of my future describing a certain hairdo and certain looks, and said that the Lord did not want me to date until I met her. I did feel kind of obligated to follow that.

So I started praying for the Lord to show me who I'd marry. I had what I think was a vision-- not a 3D experience where I was in the visionary experience, but a kind of picture dropped into my mind. I have great difficulty thinking in pictures (I think in words), so this stood out to me. The vision zoomed in on a young woman's face around her eye. There were a couple of characteristics that stood out to me that would be helpful later, but I didn't memorize the face.

This female friend and I kind of had a falling out. I tried to make up, and we sort of did, but she did not pick up the phone when I called, and this was before everyone had a cell phone.

So life went on. I met a young woman during a certain month. It seemed to me the Lord was speaking to my heart that this was the woman to marry, and there were a lot of things that pointed in that direction. She was also single, had the kind of looks that appealed to me, loved the Lord, and was what I was looking for. I didn't know it, but when she saw me (that time, we'd actually been introduced briefly before and figured that out later), she said the Lord told her I was the one she would marry. That information did not come out until after we were engaged. She'd prayed about us getting married and wrote it in our prayer journal after meeting me. When we first met, though, I didn't want to date without knowing for sure, so I said we could just be friends. I took her out somewhere just about every day for months until I felt like I was lying by not calling her my girlfriend. So eventually, she agreed that I was her boyfriend. I didn't realize at the time, but people there introduced each other as 'my friend' until they get engaged, so I didn't have to have the girlfriend conversation.

I was nearly 100% sure I wanted to marry this woman, but I'd hoped to get some 'confirmation' through this friend's vision a year or two before. I finally spoke to her briefly when I brought this young woman I was seeing to church, but she said that this woman looked different from the woman she saw in the vision.

I went back to the church meeting. I mentioned that to the girl I was dating. She was very upset by it and even refused to see me briefly. She got some advice from a common friend of ours who calmed her down. We got past that rather quickly.

I got some advice from this same friend and a missionary about trusting God to make decisions. Later, a married couple who were friends with the woman who told me about the vision about my future wife said she had questioned whether the Lord wanted them to be married. I remember this friend of ours had also made a comment about a dating couple who had visited our church and said she did not know if they had been together. During our conversation, she'd told stories about married couples in the network of churches of the one we attended in which they said God had told one of the other of them they were to marry each other. At one point in the conversation, she said it was important to marry who God wanted you to or you might have to get a divorce and marry the right one. It was hard to get a word in edgewise with her in a conversation, and I do not remember if I got a chance to correct her on that. God telling you who to marry isn't presented as a typical thing in scripture. (I can think of Joseph and Mary, but they were already betrothed, apparently.) But the Bible has some heavy things to say about divorce and remarriage, adultery and such.

Anyway, when I heard that about this other couple, that helped take a load off emotionally.

The experience helped me trust God to make my own decisions. I believe in the gift of prophecy, and a lot of words hit the nail on the head. This is the only real experience I've had like this. It's possible she had a genuine vision and forgot the pictures she saw a year later. I couldn't remember the face from my vision, but I remembered a couple of details that served as confirmation with my wife. One came in the form of seeing a picture of my wife before she'd plucked her eyebrows. But the vision was not what I based my decision to marry on.

I took my friend and the missionary's advice and I prayed about making the decision to marry my wife. I listed all the reasons why I believed it was a wise decision and why I believed it was the Lord's will. I told the Lord I had decided to propose and if He did not want me to do it, to show me or stop me. My girlfriend was out of town doing some ministry-related stuff. I asked an older friend from church to go with me to find an engagement ring a day after my girlfriend arrived. After praying that particular time where I made the decision and told the Lord my plans, I was 100% convinced of my decision. Not 95% sure about marrying her or 99%. It was a settled issue for me.

So I pick my wife up and we ended up going to a church meeting that night. There was a preacher I actually knew from before I was dating who had just come back into the country. At the end of the meeting, he called my girlfriend and me up to the front and prophesied over us. They blasted the music so load we had to struggle to hear, but I recall we were to go to may places together and minister to many people. We have done that. The implication was that we would be together for a long time, which I took as a confirmation for us to marry.

I asked him afterward if he were nervous about giving prophecies like that. He said he used to be but wasn't anymore. I also told him I was preparing to buy her a ring. He said it is about time.

Within a few days of that I'd proposed and she said yes. I learned about trusting God to make decisions. I do not have a problem with God using a prophecy to help someone make a decision. I'd made my mind up and was secure in my decision before I got this prophetic word, instead of it helping me get past doubt to make decision.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,073
794
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#18
Btw, I believe churches should follow what the Bible teaches about prophesying, to 'let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge.' It also says 'For ye may all prophesy.' Prophesying is encouraged. Paul says to 'despise not prophesyings' and to 'prove all things.

One of the temptations is if we hear a false prophecy or hear about them, we might have a negative attitude toward prophesying. I am not sure if the bad eschatology the Thessalonians were hearing came in the form of prophetic words or not, but it might have been. Paul corrected some false ideas about eschatology in I Thessalonians, and then warns them not to despise prophesyings.

I believe false prophecy given in the name of the LORD is a grave sin. It can also confuse people. Some churches treat it as no big deal, which might actually encourage false prophesying. Teaching that it is no big deal to prophesy falsely because prophesying is 'in part' may actually be something that leads to false prophecy, IMO.

Since prophesying is speaking under the moving of the Spirit and God has _not_ promised that he won't talk about jobs, babies, and marriages, it isn't Biblical to put those restrictions on prophetic words. God is sovereign. I Corinthians 14 which encourages believers to prophesy also indicates that prophecies can make manifest the secrets of one's heart. Acts shows prophecies can be about the future, someone's future persecution or a coming famine.

Some prophecies are conditional. One might argue from Jeremiah 18 that prophecies, in general, are conditional, at least those given to nations or kingdoms. If a nation or kingdom repents, God may repent of the evil decreed for that nation or kingdom. If the nation does evil, God may repent of the good decreed for that nation or kingdom.

Some prophecies are commands or instructions. You shall do such and such. We see those in the Old Testament. If the one hearing the prophecy did not obey, we should not assume that makes the one who gave it a a false prophet.

Isaiah prophesied Hezekiah's death, but Hezekiah wept and prayed and Isaiah went back there with a prophecy about Hezekiah's life being extended, so God may respond to intercession.

We should take all of scripture into account before accusing someone of a false prophecy. Some of these things in scripture do not fit well with the heavy determinism some Calvinists and other Christians have, and we need to realize that. Some people think God is just a set of 'omnis'-- including a certain idea of 'omniscient' that there cannot be any response to intercession or supplication. I do not see how that is consistent with the story about Isaiah and Hezekiah mentioned earlier.

False prophecies can put people into bondage, for example not to date or make other decisions. Rather than making man-made rules that say the Holy Spirit is not allowed to speak through you to others about marriage, babies, jobs, etc., IMO, it makes more sense to teach people that if they listen to a false prophecy and make a decision based on it, they are responsible before God for it. If they listen to a true prophecy and do not heed it, they are responsible before God for it. Some people want to hear a prophecy to alleviate them of making their own decisions.

In my own experience and to my understanding most prophecies do not give people a specific directive that narrows their decision making options beyond what scripture does. Some do, but that is a rarer situation. Of course, some churches may have a 'culture' that allows for false prophecy without accountability.

My wife got word back from a man on social media who told her that years before, she had given him a prophecy about this future ministry he would do. It was quite detailed. At the time, he was a janitor, and she had a prophecy about him being a leader of a ministry ministering to church leaders. Now, he is the head of a Christian organization and does just that and he wrote to encourage her about the word being fulfilled.

A lot of prophecies also tell very specific details about another person's situation that the one getting the prophecy doesn't actually know. I've gotten what I would classify as 'words of knowledge' like that, or maybe some of it was a kind of prophetic prayer. I'm not sure what category to put it in.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,073
794
113
#19
As far as waiting two or two and a half years before having a baby goes, my wife and I did that. We lived in a culture where people were trying to have a baby in the first year of marriage and the guy who made photocopies at work asked me constantly if my wife was pregnant for a while. After they stopped asking, for the most part, she got pregnant. Maybe they thought we were infertile. We were trying to hold off on babies to enjoy being together.

As far as spending romantic time together, both emotionally and the physical component, not having kids allowed for a lot more of that. It was a unique time in our marriage. We were in our 20's. But if we'd married when she was 30+, especially 35+ and we wanted kids, that doesn't make sense. You just go ahead and try to make the baby when you can. If you are older it may take a while anyway.

Couples with children statistically have a much lower divorce rate. It can be a signal of commitment.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,073
794
113
#20
wow
no
I dont go in for that sort of thing. Some churches do and I think its very phony. I can mock those false prophecies as obviously something people want to hear that have itching ears.

All the prophesying Ive done has come from the Bible and its almost always to do with what God wants for His kingdom and His people (often in Revelation or Isaiah, the most prophetic books) and relates to Jesus - not ever so and so is going to marry so and so!
There is 'take unto thee Mary thy wife' message from the angel in the dream. They were already betrothed, apparently, but still, it was a marriage-related issue. Prophecies can be about minutia of life, too. Saul and his servant went to Samuel the prophet to inquire of the LORD where their lost donkeys were. They were allowed to do that. Deuteronomy 18 forbade going to soothsayers but allowed them to hear a prophet of the Lord. A king who fell and injured himself as rebuked for sending messengers to inquire of Baalzebub, the god of Ekron as to whether he would survive. Elijah asked 'Is there not a God in Israel...?' He should have inquired of the LORD.

I Corinthians 14 also indicates that prophecies can make manifest the secrets of one's heart. So that can be personal stuff that isn't necessary one of the big COGs in the system of God's plan of salvation for the universe.