Male and Female

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MissCris

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,599
255
83
#1
I was outside shoveling snow out of the driveway when my father-in-law pulled up. He got out and said, “What’s going on here? Don’t you have a husband?” He was joking- partly. I said, “He hates shoveling snow, and anyway he’s at work all night snow-plowing there.”

His response- “I just hate to see women doing man’s work. Doesn’t bother me for a guy to wash the dishes, he ought to, but girls should get to do girl stuff.”

Now...

Mostly he was just teasing me, but I come across this idea quite a bit around here; that women should do feminine things and look and act...feminine. And men should always look and act ultra-manly.

I don’t disagree, exactly- God made men and women different to fill different roles. Women are, Biblically, the weaker vessel. Men, Biblically, are providers and protectors. No issues there.

What I’m wondering is this-

What do you see as being ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’? Does it come down to how a person looks, if they fulfill typical stereotypes of their gender?

Does it boil down to the way they act? The way they speak? The jobs they do? The household tasks they perform?

In your opinion, what makes a man truly masculine? What makes a woman truly feminine?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,402
511
113
#2
There are several places in scripture where a man is told to "act like a man."

So although this might mean different things in different cultures, it certainly does not mean nothing.



There is such a thing as "acting like a man", and that's in the bible... so we'll have to start with the premise that it actually does mean something.




 

MissCris

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,599
255
83
#3
There are several places in scripture where a man is told to "act like a man."

So although this might mean different things in different cultures, it certainly does not mean nothing.



There is such a thing as "acting like a man", and that's in the bible... so we'll have to start with the premise that it actually does mean something.




I agree- It definitely means something. Hence, this thread ;)
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,402
511
113
#4
I agree- It definitely means something. Hence, this thread ;)


I was just showing masculinity was established in scripture to preempt the people who will argue to the contrary.
 

JonahLynx

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2014
1,016
25
0
#5
There are several places in scripture where a man is told to "act like a man."
"As opposed to what?" could be a good follow-up. Different connotations between acting like a boy/man or woman/man.
 

PeterJames

Senior Member
Feb 13, 2017
102
2
18
#6
I am not single, so maybe I should not be posting here.

But to me, a woman is the sister I never had, the friend I cannot have ... she who is tender and compassionate and really possesses the quality of God that males sometimes are so difficult in expressing.
 
Aug 2, 2009
20,309
556
113
52
#8
I was outside shoveling snow out of the driveway when my father-in-law pulled up. He got out and said, “What’s going on here? Don’t you have a husband?” He was joking- partly. I said, “He hates shoveling snow, and anyway he’s at work all night snow-plowing there.”

His response- “I just hate to see women doing man’s work. Doesn’t bother me for a guy to wash the dishes, he ought to, but girls should get to do girl stuff.”

Now...

Mostly he was just teasing me, but I come across this idea quite a bit around here; that women should do feminine things and look and act...feminine. And men should always look and act ultra-manly.

I don’t disagree, exactly- God made men and women different to fill different roles. Women are, Biblically, the weaker vessel. Men, Biblically, are providers and protectors. No issues there.

What I’m wondering is this-

What do you see as being ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’? Does it come down to how a person looks, if they fulfill typical stereotypes of their gender?

Does it boil down to the way they act? The way they speak? The jobs they do? The household tasks they perform?

In your opinion, what makes a man truly masculine? What makes a woman truly feminine?
In terms of physical strength, women are the weaker sex... But psychologically, a woman can destroy a man faster than a speeding bullet! :rolleyes:

 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,333
113
#9
In terms of physical strength, women are the weaker sex... But psychologically, a woman can destroy a man faster than a speeding bullet! :rolleyes:
My daughter weighed under a pound and a half when she was born almost thirty two years ago. The neo-natal specialist told me her chances for survival were better because she is a girl, since girls are physiologically stronger :) (Even at that, they were only 50/50.) Of course, this does not apply in all instances ;) Meaning, physically the males of the species are stronger, but the females can endure more, is what I think he meant :D
 

17Bees

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2016
289
26
28
#10
I hope there's some males that see these replies. It's an important topic. I think there are some distinctions that have lost their meaning in what is "masculine" and what is "feminine" for a variety of reasons. Nobody's going to read this because there is no short way to get a point across on this. I can't clickbait this thing. But manhood has lost its way. Manhood has been defined as bravado, by tattoos, body shape, or worse yet, a sexy cool gun, all fueled by testosterone. Defined to us by fakers and gamers and liars of all kind. Women, for God's sake, have no choice but to step up to the plate and do their best to assume a man's role. Take a look at the movies these days. Who's the hero? Who's carrying the weight of two roles for her family?

Bravado is mistaken for manhood. A man should welcome his judgement; a judgement that claims his honesty and fairness, stability and provision for his children. A judgement that affirms his devotion to God, his commitment to his wife or family or his task at hand. A man who seeks to know the heart of the one before hating the whole.

I was watching an episode of Goliath I was streaming tonight. There was this scene where it showed what looked like a night view overlook at Hollywood Hills to LA. It was fast motioned so the headlights/taillights formed a solid busy steaming red and white lights along the myriad of streets below. It reminded me of the power of worldly things. The extraordinary power of worldly movement. Not that it's all sinful or bad but that it's ever growing. Ever continuing.

Micah 6:8 - He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy. And to walk humbly with your God.

So it's up to men. They'll either step up or they won't and lose their selves to the busy street.
 

MissCris

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,599
255
83
#11
I am not single, so maybe I should not be posting here.

But to me, a woman is the sister I never had, the friend I cannot have ... she who is tender and compassionate and really possesses the quality of God that males sometimes are so difficult in expressing.
You don’t have to be single to post here :) I’m not single, and these poor souls can’t get rid of me :D

I like what you said- about a woman possessing the Godly qualities that men have trouble with. I think that’s a great description of how male and female are supposed to complement each other.
 

MissCris

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,599
255
83
#12
I hope there's some males that see these replies. It's an important topic. I think there are some distinctions that have lost their meaning in what is "masculine" and what is "feminine" for a variety of reasons. Nobody's going to read this because there is no short way to get a point across on this. I can't clickbait this thing. But manhood has lost its way. Manhood has been defined as bravado, by tattoos, body shape, or worse yet, a sexy cool gun, all fueled by testosterone. Defined to us by fakers and gamers and liars of all kind. Women, for God's sake, have no choice but to step up to the plate and do their best to assume a man's role. Take a look at the movies these days. Who's the hero? Who's carrying the weight of two roles for her family?

Bravado is mistaken for manhood. A man should welcome his judgement; a judgement that claims his honesty and fairness, stability and provision for his children. A judgement that affirms his devotion to God, his commitment to his wife or family or his task at hand. A man who seeks to know the heart of the one before hating the whole.

I was watching an episode of Goliath I was streaming tonight. There was this scene where it showed what looked like a night view overlook at Hollywood Hills to LA. It was fast motioned so the headlights/taillights formed a solid busy steaming red and white lights along the myriad of streets below. It reminded me of the power of worldly things. The extraordinary power of worldly movement. Not that it's all sinful or bad but that it's ever growing. Ever continuing.

Micah 6:8 - He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy. And to walk humbly with your God.

So it's up to men. They'll either step up or they won't and lose their selves to the busy street.
I can’t rep this so I hope someone else does-

Excellent post.
 

seoulsearch

Senior Member
May 23, 2009
10,773
353
83
#13
Hey MissCris,

This is a great topic. I often wonder what God would say about modern gender roles and what He still wants for us, because it seems that the lines are constantly being blurred, and in some ways, even merging.

I know that some of the most cited and seemingly argued passages in the Bible about gender have to do with the length of one's hair, but it's always been interesting to me that in many photos, Jesus is depicted with longer hair--not that this is accurate, of course, but I just find it interesting. And, the vast majority of women at the church I now attend are older and almost all of them have short hair.

Living in a sinful society also seems to have pushed gender roles aside, or put burdens onto both genders that were meant to be shared. For example, the single parent must act as both mother and father; the woman who never learned how to balance a checkbook because her husband did it all is going to be at a loss if something happens to him; the man who never learns to cook because it's "women's" work is likely either going to starve or most likely, rely on a lot of terribly unhealthy foods in order to get by.

I have also been thinking about the way society is encouraging/pushing women onto tougher and traditionally more "masculine" career paths--there is a big push now for women to go into fields like science, coding, and technology. It seems that very few families can afford to have only one parent working these days, and so I always felt that being prepared to work meant that I was doing my part to help support my family. I often wish I had a brain that was geared towards these more "masculine" fields.

I also read an article last week about the push for recruiting women into dangerous jobs such as working on border patrols. Part of the reason for this is because female detainees and young girls are often sexually abused, and so it's believed that one of the solutions to this is to recruit more female guards (not that such abuses can't be committed by both genders, of course.)

The article centered around two women who are working for the border patrol, and they emphasized that in order to fit in, you couldn't be seen hanging around the other female staff (if there was even any female staff to begin with) because you would be seen as "weak" and incapable of doing your job. In other words, if you were a woman and wanted to fit in, you had to act like a man and be accepted by the men.

Even if someone isn't working in a highly dangerous field, there are plenty of times when everyday situations seem to call for overstepping what might be seen as traditional gender roles.

If I were a parent (whether married, single, or widowed) and, let's say, was dealing with my child being bullied at school, any men I would have to confront in this situation (a male principal, the fathers of the bullies, etc.) would not be dealing with someone "softer" or "weaker". At least I hope not. Rather, I would dig my (loafered) heels in, be as prepared as possible, and would utilize whatever legal rights I knew I had in order to protect my child to their fullest extent.

If I perceive any threats or dangers to my loved ones or family, it will throw any of my notions of being "the weaker vessel" right out the window--and unfortunately, in today's world, there is a lot we have to protect our loved ones from. I'm not sure if God would agree with my feelings about trying to be the toughest of the tough when push comes to shove, but I'm sure He'll work with me on whatever He sees that needs correcting.

Likewise, I think many men in today's times are put into positions where someone (a child, spouse, or parent) needs for them to be show a more compassionate, encouraging, or loving side, which might seem very unfamiliar or socially unacceptable compared to the way they were raised. I know that I could not survive in a relationship in with someone who was not emotionally expressive, but that's just me.

I have always found it intriguing that as humans, we are all made in the image of God.

Although God refers to Himself with masculine pronouns, He modeled our creation after something within His own nature. If God possess all the attributes of both genders, I often wonder what He made our full capacities to be, and to what extend we are allowed to express them.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,450
350
83
25
#14
I hope there's some males that see these replies. It's an important topic. I think there are some distinctions that have lost their meaning in what is "masculine" and what is "feminine" for a variety of reasons. Nobody's going to read this because there is no short way to get a point across on this. I can't clickbait this thing. But manhood has lost its way. Manhood has been defined as bravado, by tattoos, body shape, or worse yet, a sexy cool gun, all fueled by testosterone. Defined to us by fakers and gamers and liars of all kind. Women, for God's sake, have no choice but to step up to the plate and do their best to assume a man's role. Take a look at the movies these days. Who's the hero? Who's carrying the weight of two roles for her family?

Bravado is mistaken for manhood. A man should welcome his judgement; a judgement that claims his honesty and fairness, stability and provision for his children. A judgement that affirms his devotion to God, his commitment to his wife or family or his task at hand. A man who seeks to know the heart of the one before hating the whole.

I was watching an episode of Goliath I was streaming tonight. There was this scene where it showed what looked like a night view overlook at Hollywood Hills to LA. It was fast motioned so the headlights/taillights formed a solid busy steaming red and white lights along the myriad of streets below. It reminded me of the power of worldly things. The extraordinary power of worldly movement. Not that it's all sinful or bad but that it's ever growing. Ever continuing.

Micah 6:8 - He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy. And to walk humbly with your God.

So it's up to men. They'll either step up or they won't and lose their selves to the busy street.
Yeah any guy can pick up a weapon or look repulsive or strong as an outward sign to intimidate but what a man does concerning "Truth" and "responsibilities" is so much more important to define than anything,pretty sad that the so called toughest men "cry" over a little responsibility nowadays.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
13,450
350
83
25
#15
I can’t rep this so I hope someone else does-

Excellent post.
I repped it since I agree with the post particularly concerning masculinity and bravado.
 
Apr 26, 2012
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#16
I was just thinking about this yesterday-- Everyone has influences of masculine and feminine, especially from parenting if they have a mother and father. How masculine or feminine a man is could be related to his relationship with his father, such as how masculine his father is. Did he take his son to watch boxing? Football? or did his son have a good relationship with his mother? It is one of the most complicated things about nature/nurture I think. Social standing is also an influence, was it an art family? sports family? white-collar? blue-collar? Church family? if so, what church? formal? social? once a month, easter bunnies? college family? authoritarian family? free-range chicken family!

social skills, character, participation in school? relationships growing up? friends with the girl next door?
Parenting plays a huge role in how kids turn out. If parents actively teach their children social skills, such as how a young man should treat a lady, or how a young lady should behave-- did they grow up in the country? city?
role models?

In the bible there are many examples of how men and women have lived their lives, from King David, who was a warrior with a heart for God, for romanced, for writing songs--love songs to God. And the Apostle Paul, who may have had a wife at some point, was very good about building relationships with communities. Peter had a leadership gift and commanded respect. John the Baptist lived apart from society and his role was not social but spiritual. the Apostle John was more emotionally sensitive, had the gift of prophecy, and very close to the loving heart of God, as would be seen more with women, and he was also an evangelist. His brother James seemed to have more of a teaching leadership.

My own view is that in general, women are much closer to God's heart, and God values our hearts above all, even though we as men have a vital role, at least in the stereotype view. One pastor said that "God came to save our hearts/souls, not our minds, which is one of the dangers of college, especially if kids are rushed into the college grind to perform, get ahead, make the most money you can!! If I had kids, I would have given them time to learn at their own pace, travel, learn in the world, not the textbook, and then finish a degree at their own pace, to make nurturing their hearts a priority.

The pace of this world can really trash hearts sadly, and we can seem to be becoming more like computers with each passing year. This does not please God. I think the Lord wants us to slowwwww downnnn....take a deeeeepppp breathhhhhhh...
take a break from fast-food and have one meal at the table with family, really spending quality time.

I think it comes down to a parent trying to see where their child is at from a nature view, and then nurture those God-given qualities. A parent has a VERY serious responsibility to ensure that their child understands that same-sex expression is not, nor will it ever be accepted in the true Christian community. The Bible is clear on this--crystal. From Sodom and Gomorrah, to the teachings of the Apostle Paul and all through the Bible. I was just reading today in fact in Leviticus I think that same-sex behavior is not allowed by God. Therefore, a parent must carefully help a child understand this, at least a Christian parent,and not set their child up for failure, unhappiness, anguish, and trauma, by teaching them that it is ok to sell-out to the worlds values and the "anything goes" mentality-- whatever makes you happy.

AT the same time, pressuring a child or young person, might lead them to rebel. Prayerful, careful guidance can save a child's future from the world's shipwrecks, and the devil's way of leading people astray, telling them to "eat, drink and be merry on board your ship--" and then leading their ship into a iceberg.

But, to me, Jesus is the perfect role-model for man. In this world, He was in touch with both his masculine side, and feminine side, perfectly. He was the gentle warrior, yet fearless, who stared down the creepiness of the devil and overthrew his schemes, yet He was in touch with His own heart, the hearts of all who He met and knew, and the women in His life adored Him because He was a powerful man, yet had a gentle heart for God and for people, and for life. He faced the powers of evil to save and redeem all that is good in the world, not just people.

There are many women in the bible, including Mary, who are good role-models for women. Others like Esther, and mary Magdalene, Sarah, female deacons in the New Testament, princesses, Queens, Mary is also known as the "daughter of Zion," and so it goes...

Over the centuries there have been famous Christian women such as Joan of Arc who challenged the traditional image norms, but not the sexuality norms and yet, remained faithful to God.
It's just a complicated question-- some women athletes like to be athletes in their private lives, and some like to put on a dress after the competition is over and have dinner in a romantic setting.

Same with men-- some football players have a sensitive side when they are off the field and with their wives and families.

I think I'm starting to ramble a bit. But, I saw this lady test-pilot once on TV who test flew a new huge plane. She is very capable, and not petite, and can handle the rigors of test-piloting. then there are the lady astronauts, men and women teachers-- this is an area where men and women are on an equal field maybe?

Christian pastoring remains a challenging area for women though--

Anyway, a few more examples from secular--
The movie, "First Knight," with Richard Gere as Lancelot-- I was talking with the daughter of a friend, and I think this is common with young women-- she was awed by the romantic scene with Lancelot where he directed rain-water with leaves to the escaping princess. She also showed duel roles as a Royal Lady, yet someone who knew how to survive.
How can we understand the power of a rose to a lady, also? The movie, "Fireproof," showed that God's power is behind loving relationships.

I think it's very important for parents to not allow their daughters to think of themselves in light of the world's standards and values that fall short. there are parents who dress their daughters in spandex since it's a popular way to dress. No daughter of mine would ever do that. Let them wear what they want, but, wear a skirt over it for Christian girls.

Anyway-- identity is very important. the most important part of identity is identity in Christ. Most women who become Christians keep a lid on their sexuality, or at least tame the horse-- and dress more modestly.
I just love the movie, "Pretty Woman," where both people matured into a more Christian character and identity, the business shark began to build things, instead of tear down communities for a buck, and the lady became a lady!

I think the answer is in getting closer to God's light--when we do this, our eyes are opened to areas where we might need to make changes in our lives....
soooo--- I guess I tried to answer your question!
:cool:

Here's a video of some guy/lady dynamics---

<font size="4">[video=youtube;f5MOgcpUdQI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5MOgcpUdQI[/video]
 

Deade

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2017
2,605
575
113
72
#17
There are several places in scripture where a man is told to "act like a man."

So although this might mean different things in different cultures, it certainly does not mean nothing.



There is such a thing as "acting like a man", and that's in the bible... so we'll have to start with the premise that it actually does mean something.




Where? I just did an eSword search on "Act like a man" & "acting like a man": both came up zilch. :cool:
 

MissCris

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,599
255
83
#18
Femininity is a bit of a mystery to me. I grew up around tough women who did hard jobs (my favorite aunt was a surveyor, a police officer, truck driver, and can hang drywall like nobody’s business. My mom used to work multiple jobs at once and then come home and do the work of two parents). There was little attention to or patience for traditionally girly things; makeup, fussy hair styles, girly clothes (my mom wore jeans, flannel shirts and work boots).

I was taught, basically, that being a woman meant doing what needs done, whether it’s tough or not. And I think this is good, but not gender specific.

After I left home and was married (the first time), my view of what feminine was expanded- from the way I was treated, and the way the women around me acted and were treated, I thought women had to be sexy. Easy. Up for anything. So I dressed a certain way, acted a certain way, and after a good long while got tired of being treated the way I was advertising that I wanted to be treated.

Fast forward through a lot of other hard lessons to now- Here’s what I personally think about femininity:

There is never going to be a one-size-fits-all answer like society tries to convince us there is. Traits that I admire and respect in other women are honesty, modesty, strength tempered with vulnerability, joy and contentment in where they are, respect for men, a gentle heart, an adventurous spirit, a desire to obey God...there are probably more I can’t think of. What I can think of though are several women on this forum who frequently display many of the traits I admire. In fact if you want to put together a picture of femininity in all its facets, the women on this forum are a great place to start-

curious minds
lively spirits
beauty
strength
wisdom
intelligence
compassion
empathy
hard work
respect
kindness
joy
patience
love for God

Just a few characteristics I’ve noticed in the ladies around here.
 

Deade

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2017
2,605
575
113
72
#19
curious minds
lively spirits
beauty
strength
wisdom
intelligence
compassion
empathy
hard work
respect
kindness
joy
patience
love for God

Just a few characteristics I’ve noticed in the ladies around here.
Well MissCris, seems these are favorable traits for the laddies also. I love to cook, and I am better at it then most women I know. I fostered troubled boys for a while. I still want to know where the scriptures for acting like a man are.

6167.gif
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
5,900
89
0
#20
I was told once that the reason women have smaller feet than men, is so that they can get closer to the kitchen sink when washing dishes....... So washing dishes must be a woman thing?? :cool::p