Male and Female

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seoulsearch

Senior Member
May 23, 2009
10,773
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#41
When I was married, I felt a particular "burden" to provide for my family. While I usually enjoyed my work, in the times that income was scarce, I felt that obtaining it was "on me". Similarly, if there was a physical threat, I felt called to step in between it and her/the kids.

With this in mind, I suggest that "male" is (or at least includes as a significant portion) protector/provider.

I'd offer complementary thoughts regarding "female" but as I'm not one, I don't know what "burdens" females. So, ladies, especially those who are/have been married, I welcome your perspectives.
I know that some will disagree with me about this, and that's just fine, but the viewpoints expressed here are exactly why I've always put high priorities on learning to try my best to be prepared, stand my ground, and pay my own way.

I guess this how I personally interpret the definition of being a "helpmate"--she is strong, so that he doesn't always have to be, because as much as they might like to believe it :))), men are not Terminators and have moments where they need to rest, step back, or recharge. And I believe that a woman has to have enough skill and backbone to step in during those times.

I see a marriage as two partners back-to-back against world, not one cowering behind the other, or constantly relying on someone to save them. I would rather be an assistant like Sarah Connor to Arnold's Terminator than a damsel trapped in a tower waiting for a knight, but again, that's just me. If I have my way, I'm going to find my own way out of the tower and hopefully, meet him halfway.

I believe in working, because, while a one-person income would certainly be nice (especially with children), it isn't always possible, and I believe a helpmate should be prepared to do her part, including being able to earn an income if and when needed (after all, what if her husband gets sick, or the Lord calls him home?)

There are also too many factors in life that just one person can't fight off all alone--what if a family member gets sick, becomes disabled, is no longer able to work, etc.? These days, even a few weeks out with the flu can have devastating financial repercussions on families.

I have often wondered if many men feel burdened and overwhelmed at the thought of having to provide for and protect a not just a wife, but also an entire family.

I know I sure would.
 
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JonahLynx

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2014
1,016
25
0
#42
I have often wondered if many men feel burdened and overwhelmed at the thought of having to provide for and protect a not just a wife, but also an entire family.
I was paralyzed by this for awhile, not knowing what a sufficient income is in order to be able to start dating properly. I decided I wouldn't entertain the idea until I could theoretically support 3 people. My perspective has shifted slightly as God brought to mind the verse where Jesus says He provides for the birds even though they do no work. So perhaps to think that we are the providers is a fault of pride, and instead it should be a reliance on God through whatever means He has placed us in. Still doesn't help with the expectations of society.
 
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Apr 26, 2012
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#43
With the exception of adjectives specifically identifying gender, such as "masculine" or "ladylike", I can't think offhand of any that apply exclusively to either gender. There seem to be exceptions for everything, even without entertaining aberrations such as the stereotypical "sensitive" gay male or "butchy" gay female.

There are broad generalizations. Don't shoot me for mentioning these... women (generally) are more compassionate, encouraging, expressive with all emotions, and relationally-oriented, while men (again, generally) are more directive, assertive, expressive only with anger or frustration, and task-oriented. Men seem better able to focus on a single task, even to the exclusion of important stimuli around them, while women seem better able to integrate sensory information concurrently. As has been noted, men generally are much stronger physically. That said, women tend to be better at "toughing out" internal discomfort, while men are better at toughing out external discomfort.

What does this all mean to defining what it means to be "male" or "female"? Still thinking on that. I will say only that God designed us, and He thought His creation was "very good". I ain't gonna argue with the Potter. :)
+

Dino-- you hit it home on that last one, but, just a word of advice from an older guy--

that last paragraph sounds brilliant! and probably right-- but, I think it's an example of how not to talk to a lady...
I mean outside an academic setting, at least. if you sit down to dinner and hand her a rose, and say, something like,

"to the exclusion of important stimuli around us, I'd like to better integrate the sensory information of this date, concurrently--"

it's too stereotypically male-- women want real in the moment; they are closer to God's heart in that way--
it's sad, but, that's what too much education can do-- wayyy back when I took a beginning English class, the teacher said the same thing-- after people graduate, they usually have to learn how to unspeak techno-jingo, and it's much worse nowadays.

see?? now I'm doing it-- analyzing the roses....
that's what music is all about--
"slow dancin', swayin' to the music... slow dancin' just me and myy girl..."
shoot for "trembling on the dance floor--"

that's where we find the power of God's love...
if you have to think about it--
it's probably less than real...

"be still...and know--" God is real...
 
Apr 26, 2012
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#44
I see a marriage as two partners back-to-back against world, not one cowering behind the other, or constantly relying on someone to save them. I would rather be an assistant like Sarah Connor to Arnold's Terminator than a damsel trapped in a tower waiting for a knight, but again, that's just me. If I have my way, I'm going to find my own way out of the tower and hopefully, meet him halfway.


There are also too many factors in life that just one person can't fight off all alone--
That's one of the problems with us as Christians-- we are a divided family. Here in America especially community is not easy to find--

But, come one-- you wouldn't want to be rescued by Lancelot?

[video=youtube;ywCjTcXl7x8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywCjTcXl7x8[/video]
 
Apr 26, 2012
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#45
Yes! I agree it has to do with the spirit. I think that may be why it’s so difficult to truly define or pinpoint exactly what is true masculinity or femininity. It’s easy to point out obvious physical differences, it’s easy to define something as man’s or woman’s work, but what is at the core, the very heart of what a man or woman is, or should be? Their spirit.

...which raises more questions (in general, not directed at you)-

How would you describe a masculine spirit? Have you ever seen a man that just struck you as very masculine in some way that had nothing to do with appearance?

Same for women- have you ever been struck by the femininity of a woman in a way that had nothing to do with appearance?

(Good post Tinuviel, I think you got right to the heart of the topic and pointed out something I couldn’t quite get hold of in my mind :) )
I agree with you both. I was just thinking about this today-- There definitely is a spiritual side to this; not sure exactly what I'm trying to say, but, there is a natural God-given feminine spirit, or masculine, and then there are those who might be effected unnaturally by a "feminine spirit," or "masculine spirit," which can be unnerving to be around or see in someone. Maybe it takes a bit of a gift of discernment? Which women in general are much better at I think--
I think it's safe to say, you can't hide anything from a lady who is close to God, loves the Lord, and lives it--
And women are much better at seeing the inner person. A lady was cutting my hair and I said hair-loss was distressing. She said, "most women could care less if a man has no hair-- they see the inner man."

Evan at my age as I strive to overcome shallow waters and be more real in the moment--not to attract women, but just in general relationships, it's never too late to strive to become more Christlike--
people start giving you the time of day--at least[\\
and women talk to you more--
 
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Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,153
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#46
I know that some will disagree with me about this, and that's just fine, but the viewpoints expressed here are exactly why I've always put high priorities on learning to try my best to be prepared, stand my ground, and pay my own way.

I guess this how I personally interpret the definition of being a "helpmate"--she is strong, so that he doesn't always have to be, because as much as they might like to believe it :))), men are not Terminators and have moments where they need to rest, step back, or recharge. And I believe that a woman has to have enough skill and backbone to step in during those times.

I see a marriage as two partners back-to-back against world, not one cowering behind the other, or constantly relying on someone to save them. I would rather be an assistant like Sarah Connor to Arnold's Terminator than a damsel trapped in a tower waiting for a knight, but again, that's just me. If I have my way, I'm going to find my own way out of the tower and hopefully, meet him halfway.

I believe in working, because, while a one-person income would certainly be nice (especially with children), it isn't always possible, and I believe a helpmate should be prepared to do her part, including being able to earn an income if and when needed (after all, what if her husband gets sick, or the Lord calls him home?)

There are also too many factors in life that just one person can't fight off all alone--what if a family member gets sick, becomes disabled, is no longer able to work, etc.? These days, even a few weeks out with the flu can have devastating financial repercussions on families.

I have often wondered if many men feel burdened and overwhelmed at the thought of having to provide for and protect a not just a wife, but also an entire family.

I know I sure would.
It's soul crushing to work several jobs, to pay for someone else's dreams.
 

toinena

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2017
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#47
I think God made us different for a reason.

I personally like to do laundry and ironing, making clothes (sewing or knitting) and make curtains and decorate at home. Not very good with plants, but I like growing vegetables and have rhubarb and berrybushes. I like conserving things like making jams or chutneys and baking. I like cooking too. As for cleaning,I have a robot vacuuming and I like to keep it quite decent at home.

Snowshovelling is in my head a man's job. Fixing car and doing handywork. I could glady join in painting. That is fun.

Doing things together is what is most appealing, though. As long as I am in control of my spieces and yarns I am fine. I think I need some areas where I can be in charge.

As for economy... I think I need to work. Perhaps not three jobs, but atleast three days a week. And now I have reached such a level that I earn quite nicelym it would be foolish not to benifit from that.

But. This is just hypothetical. I do like to dream, though.
 

toinena

Senior Member
Mar 10, 2017
2,030
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#48
As for being provided for, Seoulsearch, that is a very strange thought for me. I rather see me as the provider or the one that has steady economy. In the marriage I didn't earn the most, but it was I that always came to the rescue when my spouse had used all his money on expensive tools he never used, hunting gear he used once, his violin that I paid for and of course his cigars, cigarettes, beers and whiskey.

Just give me the freedom to buy yarn, and I am a very content woman.
 

Lynx

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2014
12,623
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#49
Oh! We just read a verse with that phrase in church recently. And it struck me because I didn't realize that phrase was in the Bible. It had something to do with David, but I forget where exactly it was. Read the story of Saul and David and you might come across it.
You might be thinking about I Samuel 4:9. "Be strong, and quit yourselves like men, O ye Philistines, that ye be not servants unto the Hebrews, as they have been to you: quit yourselves like men, and fight." It was when the Israelites and Philistines were fighting and Israel brought the Ark into the battle, thinking that would bring God Himself into the fight. The Philistines basically said "Oh shoot, we'd better put some effort into this" and they promptly mowed the Israelites down.

Also if you use a bible program (or a concordance if you want to go old school) and search for "effeminate" you will find a few results, and they are never in a good connotation.
 

seoulsearch

Senior Member
May 23, 2009
10,773
352
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#50
You might be thinking about I Samuel 4:9. "Be strong, and quit yourselves like men, O ye Philistines, that ye be not servants unto the Hebrews, as they have been to you: quit yourselves like men, and fight." It was when the Israelites and Philistines were fighting and Israel brought the Ark into the battle, thinking that would bring God Himself into the fight. The Philistines basically said "Oh shoot, we'd better put some effort into this" and they promptly mowed the Israelites down.

Also if you use a bible program (or a concordance if you want to go old school) and search for "effeminate" you will find a few results, and they are never in a good connotation.
With all the talk in the beginning of the thread about the Bible telling men to act like men... I do wish the posters would have included the verses and references--I would have been curious to read them.

I'm sure I'm missing several, but the only verse that immediately popped into my mind when it was mentioned is Job 38:3, when God Himself tells Job, "BRACE YOURSELF LIKE A MAN; I will question you, and you will answer Me."

I'm pretty sure that if God were to say that directly to ANY man on the forum right now, even THE manliest of the manliest of men... would most certainly be wishing he was wearing a diaper just as soon as he heard God tell him to man up.
 

Susanna

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2013
2,576
61
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#51
With all the talk in the beginning of the thread about the Bible telling men to act like men... I do wish the posters would have included the verses and references--I would have been curious to read them.

I'm sure I'm missing several, but the only verse that immediately popped into my mind when it was mentioned is Job 38:3, when God Himself tells Job, "BRACE YOURSELF LIKE A MAN; I will question you, and you will answer Me."

I'm pretty sure that if God were to say that directly to ANY man on the forum right now, even THE manliest of the manliest of men... would most certainly be wishing he was wearing a diaper just as soon as he heard God tell him to man up.
I think that'd be the case if he told any of us ladies to get our act together as well...lol.
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
737
41
0
#52
I'll throw my hat in this ring, and this is just my opinion on it. The bible does clearly say the woman is the weaker vessel.....she wasn't created to do man's work, but rather a help meet for him. That is to say that the woman is to not only support her husband physically, but also emotionally as well. That's a true help meet. I think it's a tender notion when a husband steps out and helps the wife with cleaning, dishes, laundry, and running errands. That shows that two are truly one, how God intended it to be.

Just because you help your wife with errands or gardening does not make you less masculine as some would think. It only adds to it. A real man loves Jesus, and a real man will love his wife just as Jesus loved the church and was willing to give Himself for it. And when it comes to children, a man who will spend time with them and nurture them, and love them and play with them and be a dad, that's a true man. Anyone who would flee from that, is not a man, but a coward, and a coward has no place in our Lord's army.

When it comes to women, dressing up, looking beautiful and wearing perfume, that's being feminine. That's being a woman, and when a woman goes out of her way to help her husband with things (mowing the yard, fixing a broken pipe, working on a car), that in no way takes away her right as a woman. Again that's two showing as one.

(I won't get into men acting like women and feminists.....that's a whole nother ball of wax there, and shameful.)

We're made to compliment each other, male and female. :D





 

MissCris

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,598
253
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#53
Lots of talk about providing/being provided for...I feel slightly nervous sharing this but here goes :p

I like that my husband provides for me. I like getting to be at home with the kids, and I like that I don’t have to have the stress of working a job and maintaining our home and raising kids and cats and chickens.

This set up doesn’t work for a lot of people, and I get that. And a lot of the time, a woman will misuse/abuse her husband’s willingness to be the provider; either she becomes lazy and doesn’t take care of her home or family, or maybe she spends too much money thereby stressing her husband further...so yes, it can go seriously wrong.

To answer a question Dino posted yesterday, I would say I feel strongly compelled to make sure I am holding up my end of things- I don’t have to contribute income, but I do have a responsibility to do everything I can to not only help my husband, but to make sure my family thrives. And this IS work- not just cleaning and cooking, but being frugal and respecting that my husband works hard for our money; finding ways to make our home more functional for everyone; finding things I can make and sell to help out even if it’s not necessary. I spend a lot of time learning new skills because I want to be useful and busy and not a burden to my husband.

That all being said, when my daughter starts school this fall, I will get a job, and probably go back to school. Because as Kim pointed out, what if my husband gets sick, or hurt, or dies? Much as I enjoy being able to stay home, I also feel responsible for being capable of returning the favor should the need arise, and also again, just doing whatever is in my power to be a help and not a hindrance.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
22,442
1,058
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#54
With all the talk in the beginning of the thread about the Bible telling men to act like men... I do wish the posters would have included the verses and references--I would have been curious to read them.

I'm sure I'm missing several, but the only verse that immediately popped into my mind when it was mentioned is Job 38:3, when God Himself tells Job, "BRACE YOURSELF LIKE A MAN; I will question you, and you will answer Me."

I'm pretty sure that if God were to say that directly to ANY man on the forum right now, even THE manliest of the manliest of men... would most certainly be wishing he was wearing a diaper just as soon as he heard God tell him to man up.
That's a very interesting mention about God telling Job to brace himself like a man. There must be biblical references in how to do just that. It's worth a study. I'm gonna man up.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
22,442
1,058
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#55
I think that'd be the case if he told any of us ladies to get our act together as well...lol.


Waiting for the hurricane
To hit New York City.
Somebody said it's hit the bay,
This is the nitty gritty.

And all the bag ladies
Better put their acts together.
We're near the eye of the storm,
This is really heavy weather...
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
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Philly, PA, USA
#56
I was outside shoveling snow out of the driveway when my father-in-law pulled up. He got out and said, “What’s going on here? Don’t you have a husband?” He was joking- partly. I said, “He hates shoveling snow, and anyway he’s at work all night snow-plowing there.”

His response- “I just hate to see women doing man’s work. Doesn’t bother me for a guy to wash the dishes, he ought to, but girls should get to do girl stuff.”

Now...

Mostly he was just teasing me, but I come across this idea quite a bit around here; that women should do feminine things and look and act...feminine. And men should always look and act ultra-manly.

I don’t disagree, exactly- God made men and women different to fill different roles. Women are, Biblically, the weaker vessel. Men, Biblically, are providers and protectors. No issues there.

What I’m wondering is this-

What do you see as being ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’? Does it come down to how a person looks, if they fulfill typical stereotypes of their gender?

Does it boil down to the way they act? The way they speak? The jobs they do? The household tasks they perform?

In your opinion, what makes a man truly masculine? What makes a woman truly feminine?
Anatomy mostly. But in that anatomy comes a different mindset too. Like men like to try and fix things, while women like to discover the breadth and width of a concept.

And the "fix things" doesn't necessarily mean mechanical aptitude. Men also want to fix relationship problems, too. (Whether it is their relationship with a woman, or her relationship with her boss/coworker, or her relationship with others.) They just like things working right.

We tend to be more inclined to accept shades of not-working-like-I-want more readily. Sort of like cars. If the car starts, stops, and moves like we want, that check-engine light isn't as important to us as it is to men. And that's not to say we ignore the check-engine light. But we don't ignore it simply because the car might not work right tomorrow, if we don't pay attention. Men want it fixed. There should be no check-engine light. Even if it gets to the point that an auto mechanic says it's just a glitch, he's going to want it fixed. (BTW, our check-engine light has been off and on for the 27 years we've owned our car, and it still bothers him when it goes on. It's on 90% of the time.)

Meanwhile, we're more into defining and refining. What color is that flower? I lean toward mauve, but some would say it's more of a puse. It's too light to be puse! And yet, ask him, and he'll go with pink or purple. Honestly? I'm proud of him because he's hitting secondary colors. It took a good decade before he realized I notice 20+ shades of purple. After all, purple doesn't have to be fixed. It either is or isn't. lol

Jobs? Jobs for us come in six flavors:
1. Like to do it.
2. Don't like to do it.
3. Hate it.
4. Has to be done even if both of us hate it.
5. Both of us hate it, and we don't have to do it.
6. Can't do it.

After years of talking, we just go with which one any particular job is to us, and if we both agree, it's "fixed." Snow shoveling is a 2 to me. It used to be a 2 to him too, but now it's a 6. In which case, until recently, whoever was awake and dressed first got to shovel the snow. Now, I win snow shoveling. (This winter, the Lord was kind enough to melt it quickly, so, so far, all I've had to do was sweep once.)

Paying bills is a 1 for me, and a 3 for him, so I take care of the finances. If he buys something over ten bucks, he asks me first. I find that funny, because we have enough in the account for $10. But, he really is just telling me when he is going to buy something, so I don't think someone is taking money out of the account.

Heavy lifting was his department for decades. Now it's a problem. It's a 6 for both of us.

But job wise, I do think there are jobs men are more capable of doing than women. He's lifted oil-filled 55-gallon drums off a flat-bed truck and took them to where they belong. Something like 10 of them and all in one day! (His boss laughed at him, because the boss thought he handed him a two-day job.) Me? I couldn't budge one even in my prime.

I'm not big into defining masculinity vs. femininity. We is what we is by genes. We choose how we want to act. (I am definitely a woman, yet no lady.)

Women can lift a chair at a 90 degree angle. Men can't. Men can raise a chair from the ground by one leg. Women cannot. It really is anatomy.

And I'm glad God made us this way.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
479
83
Philly, PA, USA
#57
I was just showing masculinity was established in scripture to preempt the people who will argue to the contrary.
Actually, the scripture is full of how a woman should act too. It just doesn't define it as feminine. I do like to stay within the lines of how a woman should act, and yet, I'm still not "feminine" by today's standard.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
479
83
Philly, PA, USA
#58
I hope there's some males that see these replies. It's an important topic. I think there are some distinctions that have lost their meaning in what is "masculine" and what is "feminine" for a variety of reasons. Nobody's going to read this because there is no short way to get a point across on this. I can't clickbait this thing. But manhood has lost its way. Manhood has been defined as bravado, by tattoos, body shape, or worse yet, a sexy cool gun, all fueled by testosterone. Defined to us by fakers and gamers and liars of all kind. Women, for God's sake, have no choice but to step up to the plate and do their best to assume a man's role. Take a look at the movies these days. Who's the hero? Who's carrying the weight of two roles for her family?

Bravado is mistaken for manhood. A man should welcome his judgement; a judgement that claims his honesty and fairness, stability and provision for his children. A judgement that affirms his devotion to God, his commitment to his wife or family or his task at hand. A man who seeks to know the heart of the one before hating the whole.

I was watching an episode of Goliath I was streaming tonight. There was this scene where it showed what looked like a night view overlook at Hollywood Hills to LA. It was fast motioned so the headlights/taillights formed a solid busy steaming red and white lights along the myriad of streets below. It reminded me of the power of worldly things. The extraordinary power of worldly movement. Not that it's all sinful or bad but that it's ever growing. Ever continuing.

Micah 6:8 - He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy. And to walk humbly with your God.

So it's up to men. They'll either step up or they won't and lose their selves to the busy street.
Real men have never stepped down.

Honestly Hollywood is all about the #OwnVoice movement, thinking men have overtaken the world, so let's show that women have it all under control. That's not real life. That's profit-line with some indoctrination added. Reality is sin has taken over the world, and yet God is still sovereign, so sin really hasn't taken over the whole world.

I see the young turks strutting their stuff, and yet still laugh. I laugh because I saw him in a VA hospital being passed by, without notice, by the men who really take care of the world. The Veterans, who did their part to protect the land, then passed it on to the next generation, as they went home to raise a family and work hard.

I see a lot more real men then the young turks in life. And, generally speaking, I'm fully aware the young turks will realize the difference and go on to be real men. Been like that my whole life.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
479
83
Philly, PA, USA
#59
Hey MissCris,

This is a great topic. I often wonder what God would say about modern gender roles and what He still wants for us, because it seems that the lines are constantly being blurred, and in some ways, even merging.

I know that some of the most cited and seemingly argued passages in the Bible about gender have to do with the length of one's hair, but it's always been interesting to me that in many photos, Jesus is depicted with longer hair--not that this is accurate, of course, but I just find it interesting. And, the vast majority of women at the church I now attend are older and almost all of them have short hair.

Living in a sinful society also seems to have pushed gender roles aside, or put burdens onto both genders that were meant to be shared. For example, the single parent must act as both mother and father; the woman who never learned how to balance a checkbook because her husband did it all is going to be at a loss if something happens to him; the man who never learns to cook because it's "women's" work is likely either going to starve or most likely, rely on a lot of terribly unhealthy foods in order to get by.

I have also been thinking about the way society is encouraging/pushing women onto tougher and traditionally more "masculine" career paths--there is a big push now for women to go into fields like science, coding, and technology. It seems that very few families can afford to have only one parent working these days, and so I always felt that being prepared to work meant that I was doing my part to help support my family. I often wish I had a brain that was geared towards these more "masculine" fields.

I also read an article last week about the push for recruiting women into dangerous jobs such as working on border patrols. Part of the reason for this is because female detainees and young girls are often sexually abused, and so it's believed that one of the solutions to this is to recruit more female guards (not that such abuses can't be committed by both genders, of course.)

The article centered around two women who are working for the border patrol, and they emphasized that in order to fit in, you couldn't be seen hanging around the other female staff (if there was even any female staff to begin with) because you would be seen as "weak" and incapable of doing your job. In other words, if you were a woman and wanted to fit in, you had to act like a man and be accepted by the men.

Even if someone isn't working in a highly dangerous field, there are plenty of times when everyday situations seem to call for overstepping what might be seen as traditional gender roles.

If I were a parent (whether married, single, or widowed) and, let's say, was dealing with my child being bullied at school, any men I would have to confront in this situation (a male principal, the fathers of the bullies, etc.) would not be dealing with someone "softer" or "weaker". At least I hope not. Rather, I would dig my (loafered) heels in, be as prepared as possible, and would utilize whatever legal rights I knew I had in order to protect my child to their fullest extent.

If I perceive any threats or dangers to my loved ones or family, it will throw any of my notions of being "the weaker vessel" right out the window--and unfortunately, in today's world, there is a lot we have to protect our loved ones from. I'm not sure if God would agree with my feelings about trying to be the toughest of the tough when push comes to shove, but I'm sure He'll work with me on whatever He sees that needs correcting.

Likewise, I think many men in today's times are put into positions where someone (a child, spouse, or parent) needs for them to be show a more compassionate, encouraging, or loving side, which might seem very unfamiliar or socially unacceptable compared to the way they were raised. I know that I could not survive in a relationship in with someone who was not emotionally expressive, but that's just me.

I have always found it intriguing that as humans, we are all made in the image of God.

Although God refers to Himself with masculine pronouns, He modeled our creation after something within His own nature. If God possess all the attributes of both genders, I often wonder what He made our full capacities to be, and to what extend we are allowed to express them.
Wait? Women are supposed to be the cooks? Ut-oh!

He's supposed to do the books? Ut-oh!

And frankly, I don't think those two female guards should be guards. If you traditionally prefer the company of women, then don't go into a field that is traditionally man-dominated. Half my working life I was the only woman in the department, or company. Only one guy had problems with that, and I made sure he got it was his problem, not mine. (Young turk learned to be a man in 30 seconds flat. lol)

As for the sciences being men only? That hasn't been true since before I was born. Nurses is science. Doctors is science. Technology is science. Linguistics is science.

I still think men are more into fixing things and women are more into defining things, but there is another brain set that defines us too. Some of us are social studies/communications people, and some of us are math/science people. I actually liked looking in a microscope, but only to see tiny things. Don't make me have to tell you the chemical process that made that tiny thing be like that. I don't get chemical processes. I just like looking at things from every angle. Definitely not a math/science person. (Bookkeeping is NOT science. Bookkeeping is watching someone else make and spend money. lol)

Angela (the Angela on CC) is a math/science kind of women. Linguistics. She likes seeing how language was created and then using it for all its worth. I don't care how it's created. I just like using it.

So, I don't think that is a male/female thing. It's a different mind set that crosses the male/female spectrum. I'm very proud of women who can do the sciences. We're never going to be as good at sports as guys, but we already are with sciences. We've been there since before I was born. And, I'm now watching it going into a field I never thought would ever become this big -- computer technology.

My grandmother was born before the Wright brothers flew in Kitty Hawk. She saw men land on the moon. My aunt was a Navy nurse in WWII. She wanted to be a pilot. She glowed when women became pilots. Mom was a traditional stay-at-home Mom of the 60s. She had the mind of a CEO. I grew up when "research" meant "head to the library." Now it can be done at home through the Internet. I'm so psyched how far we've come, and absolutely know we got here from both genders.

I'm not into traditional gender roles. You do what you can and don't do what you can't. If we all can accept that, then life gets simpler. And, if someone can't? Well, he, or she, had better duck. (Because men cook and women do the books. lol)
 

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Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
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Philly, PA, USA
#60
Femininity is a bit of a mystery to me. I grew up around tough women who did hard jobs (my favorite aunt was a surveyor, a police officer, truck driver, and can hang drywall like nobody’s business. My mom used to work multiple jobs at once and then come home and do the work of two parents). There was little attention to or patience for traditionally girly things; makeup, fussy hair styles, girly clothes (my mom wore jeans, flannel shirts and work boots).

I was taught, basically, that being a woman meant doing what needs done, whether it’s tough or not. And I think this is good, but not gender specific.

After I left home and was married (the first time), my view of what feminine was expanded- from the way I was treated, and the way the women around me acted and were treated, I thought women had to be sexy. Easy. Up for anything. So I dressed a certain way, acted a certain way, and after a good long while got tired of being treated the way I was advertising that I wanted to be treated.

Fast forward through a lot of other hard lessons to now- Here’s what I personally think about femininity:

There is never going to be a one-size-fits-all answer like society tries to convince us there is. Traits that I admire and respect in other women are honesty, modesty, strength tempered with vulnerability, joy and contentment in where they are, respect for men, a gentle heart, an adventurous spirit, a desire to obey God...there are probably more I can’t think of. What I can think of though are several women on this forum who frequently display many of the traits I admire. In fact if you want to put together a picture of femininity in all its facets, the women on this forum are a great place to start-

curious minds
lively spirits
beauty
strength
wisdom
intelligence
compassion
empathy
hard work
respect
kindness
joy
patience
love for God

Just a few characteristics I’ve noticed in the ladies around here.
How's this for an idea? Drop "feminine" and "woman." Replace with "adult."

Because all the things you describe fit "a real man" in my book too. So, it looks more like you're defining a good person, than cutting it down to female only.