thoughts on modesty...

[weezer]

As I've grown in my faith and have shifted my priorities when it comes to the type of woman I want to be with (and therefore the type of woman I am attracted to) I've started thinking about the way I present myself (and how that affects the kind of women I would attract) and the way women present themselves. Whether it be with makeup or their clothes or their choice of language...etc. Simply put I want to dress modestly and am now more attracted to women who dress modestly as well, but I'm not sure what I should consider modest nowadays.

I've seen people say that "it's about not causing the opposite sex to lust after you". Well even what most women consider modest today would have been considered immodest in the past. Just 100 years ago a girl showing her ankles was considered just as risque and immodest.

So, if what a person considers to be modest and immodest is subjective, where do we (or should we) as Christians draw the line? I know there are specific passages in the Bible that talk of this or that, but it seems like most posts I read everyone kind of has their own idea of what it means. Should I just decide for myself?

Also I was at the beach recently for vacation and I noticed that literally every girl was wearing a bikini. I can't remember it always being like that, and I know this is pretty commonplace in our society today, but do Christian women wear bikinis? They seem very immodest to me, but then again I could be considered immodest wearing thigh shorts and no shirt. So let's say I met a Christian woman who wears bikinis, or even regular clothes that I thought were immodest, is that something that I should just get over? Is that just me being judgmental? Shouldn't she have the say in what she considers to be modest or immodest? I don't know I'm just thinking out loud here now.

I'm just looking for some insight/advice on how I should think about this issue in my personal life. Thanks for reading if you did!

(and yes I know men can be just as immodest, but as a male I am speaking from my POV, so please don't freak out and think I'm acting all high and mighty here as though men can't be immodest, they can be, but again I'm just speaking from a man's POV and what I should look for)

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

This is a hard topic because you are right, it's so subjective. Even the same clothes can look completely different on different body types or sizes.

I try to take into account the intent behind how people dress. Most of the time we can tell if they are trying to be "sexy", or if they are simply wanting to dress in cooler clothing for the hot summer, etc. Dancers and athletes seem to me to be a lot more open with their ideas of what is modest, too, and I'm that has to due with the culture they are immersed in. Would it be okay for a gymnast to wear a leotard? That's usually considered acceptable, but the same gymnast could wear short shorts which actually cover up more of her body, but are considered less modest. So tricky, this modesty stuff, and learning when and where exceptions are appropriate. In the end there are no fast and hard rules about it... it's not black and white. We just have to look at the overall picture and be discerning.

I think it's okay to have your own personal preferences on what you think is modest or immodest, and it's okay to look for a girl who shares those preferences.

 

[weezer]

This is a hard topic because you are right, it's so subjective. Even the same clothes can look completely different on different body types or sizes.

I try to take into account the intent behind how people dress. Most of the time we can tell if they are trying to be "sexy", or if they are simply wanting to dress in cooler clothing for the hot summer, etc. Dancers and athletes seem to me to be a lot more open with their ideas of what is modest, too, and I'm that has to due with the culture they are immersed in. Would it be okay for a gymnast to wear a leotard? That's usually considered acceptable, but the same gymnast could wear short shorts which actually cover up more of her body, but are considered less modest. So tricky, this modesty stuff, and learning when and where exceptions are appropriate. In the end there are no fast and hard rules about it... it's not black and white. We just have to look at the overall picture and be discerning.

I think it's okay to have your own personal preferences on what you think is modest or immodest, and it's okay to look for a girl who shares those preferences.

That's a good point, what is the intent. Which would require getting to know them first rather than judging them purely on their clothing. Also I would also hope that a woman I am interested would have her own modesty preferences for men, like I said, it's a two way street, but I guess it comes down to your own judgment (aside from specifics mentioned in the Bible). Thanks for the response

 

[Fenner]

Ditto what Grace said.

 

[Lynx]

THOUGHT 1:
I'm reminded of a pastor one time that had a problem of vanity in his congregation. Specifically a group of women who were in the same social clique started tanning... WAIT, don't throw song books at me yet, I'm not preaching against tanning! But he noticed the more tan they got, the lower their shirt necklines got and the higher their skirt hems got. It finally got to the point he had to call them for a meeting in his office, where he mentioned the problem he saw. When they got upset and started calling him legalistic he was ready with a few before/after pictures to demonstrate what he was talking about.

Not ALL things are relative - I'm not going to walk around my house in my birthday suit, even if nobody else is home - But I've seen a lot of christians with high collars and ankle length skirts/pants who were more vain than some people I know who are not christian. Of course I also know some people who dress modestly and are not vain about it.

THOUGHT 2:
"Modesty is the art of drawing attention to whatever it is you're being humble about."

 

[Lynx]

THOUGHT 3:
What you said about being attracted to more modest women reminds me of another saying. "You get what you advertise for." Men make a point of flexing and showing off, women wear those dresses that they almost have on... then you hear them complaining they can't find a good partner, all they attract are scumbags. Hmm, might be a reason for that.

I know I don't find it attractive when a woman wears very little in a desperate attempt to draw attention to her body... but I know some men who are attracted to that, and I know what those men are like.

 

[jennymae]

THOUGHT 1:
I'm reminded of a pastor one time that had a problem of vanity in his congregation. Specifically a group of women who were in the same social clique started tanning... WAIT, don't throw song books at me yet, I'm not preaching against tanning! But he noticed the more tan they got, the lower their shirt necklines got and the higher their skirt hems got. It finally got to the point he had to call them for a meeting in his office, where he mentioned the problem he saw. When they got upset and started calling him legalistic he was ready with a few before/after pictures to demonstrate what he was talking about.

Not ALL things are relative - I'm not going to walk around my house in my birthday suit, even if nobody else is home - But I've seen a lot of christians with high collars and ankle length skirts/pants who were more vain than some people I know who are not christian. Of course I also know some people who dress modestly and are not vain about it.

THOUGHT 2:
"Modesty is the art of drawing attention to whatever it is you're being humble about."

I can't help it, but him taking before/after pics...it's something not right with that.

 

[Lynx]

I can't help it, but him taking before/after pics...it's something not right with that.

I never said he took the pictures for that would be impossible. He would have had to be psychic to know the problem would happen so he could take the "before" pictures.

 

[violakat]

Some churches have albums, so it's possible that's where he got the pics.

I can't help it, but him taking before/after pics...it's something not right with that.

 

[jennymae]

I never said he took the pictures for that would be impossible. He would have had to be psychic to know the problem would happen so he could take the "before" pictures.

Hahaha, you're right, I didn't think of that. But it is still making me think of a line up

 

[NukePooch]

I've never understood 'situational' modesty... One wouldn't wear a bikini or a speedo to church, work, or even a grocery store, yet it's somehow okay to wear it to a public beach? Doesn't make sense to me. I know I'm likely in the minority here, but I think shorts and t-shirts at a minimum, all the time. Even the guys. I don't want to see some shirtless guy riding a lawn mower in the neighborhood. Especially a fat hairy shirtless guy. (Like my dad...I'd like to tell him that the neighbors have no desire to see his gut, but he just wouldn't care...~rolls eyes~)

On a more serious note: a bit of a warning or sorts for anyone who is 'on stage' on a regular basis. As a sound, light, and video tech, I've noticed that 'modest' dress has to be taken to new dimensions when you're on stage. Singers, preachers, presenters, etc, if they desire to remain modest, need to take into account the room that they're in. I was once a tech in a large youth (teenage) ministry. The room had seating for 450 or so with elevated 'stadium' style seating. I noticed that some guys were excited about seeing down the shirts of the teen singers on stage (because they were looking down on the stage)... The band/singers all dressed modestly, but they had no idea they were still putting on a show...

So...if you're on an elevated stage with people looking up at you, and/or if you have crowd or video cameras 'above' you looking down, might want to take that into account.

 

[NukePooch]

I never said he took the pictures for that would be impossible. He would have had to be psychic to know the problem would happen so he could take the "before" pictures.

My pastor just mentioned the other day that he's had to talk with former worship team members about some of the risque pics they were posting on fakebook.... people post everything anymore so it wouldn't take much to find pics.

 

[BruceWayne]

I think that it is both subjective and situational. I have no problem with girls wearing bikinis to the beach or guys going shirtless, etc. It's hot, people are in the sand n water, people want tans, etc. It's logical. The question for me is, are you drawing inappropriate attention to yourself? At the beach? No. Everyone is like that. Wearing a bikini to Walmart? Yes, you are drawing inappropriate attention to yourself. Yes, it would be indecent there.

As far as in your own neighborhood... I've gone outside without a shirt. My neighbor's daughter sometimes sunbathes in a bikini. My neighbor himself works outside a lot. It's hot around here. He usually doesn't have a shirt on. Do I care? No. It's their property lol.

 

[Fenner]

When I was a teenager my Dad and In would often argue about make up and clothing. If he thought I had to much makeup on or short's were to short, he'd say, no, change or with make up to much, take some off. I'd get so mad at him. Now that I have a daughter, I get it. She's not in those stages yet, but she'll be mad at me too eventually.

 

[EarnestQ]

For years I have told myself that the "standards of public modesty" should be "don't show what you don't want strangers to touch in that situation".

If a woman is wearing a plunging neckline, she is inviting every man who sees her to touch the part of her body she is showing off (at least with his eyes). Let's face it, revealing any part of your body to others is "showing off" that part of your body.

That is where business clothes come in. It is inappropriate to show off ones body in a corporate business context. (Instead, people show off their financial status - but that is a different thread...)

In the context of a beach, attendance there is voluntary and "showing off" ones body is, unfortunately, a part of the non-Christian mindset. Those who go to a beach are aware of what they are immersing themselves in, whether they approve it or not. This includes going to a "tops optional" beach.

Nevertheless, it is "my suggestion" that those Christian women who visit a beach take into consideration "my preference" of not showing what they don't want "me" to touch.

But, since I have never before verbalized this preference, I don't hold them accountable to follow it. It is just my preference. Ditto in church, or anywhere else. I can't control them.

I just wish they realized that by showing off parts of their body, they are forcing me to touch it with my eyes.

 

[OwzK]

As I've grown in my faith and have shifted my priorities when it comes to the type of woman I want to be with (and therefore the type of woman I am attracted to) I've started thinking about the way I present myself (and how that affects the kind of women I would attract) and the way women present themselves. Whether it be with makeup or their clothes or their choice of language...etc. Simply put I want to dress modestly and am now more attracted to women who dress modestly as well, but I'm not sure what I should consider modest nowadays.

I've seen people say that "it's about not causing the opposite sex to lust after you". Well even what most women consider modest today would have been considered immodest in the past. Just 100 years ago a girl showing her ankles was considered just as risque and immodest.

So, if what a person considers to be modest and immodest is subjective, where do we (or should we) as Christians draw the line? I know there are specific passages in the Bible that talk of this or that, but it seems like most posts I read everyone kind of has their own idea of what it means. Should I just decide for myself?

Also I was at the beach recently for vacation and I noticed that literally every girl was wearing a bikini. I can't remember it always being like that, and I know this is pretty commonplace in our society today, but do Christian women wear bikinis? They seem very immodest to me, but then again I could be considered immodest wearing thigh shorts and no shirt. So let's say I met a Christian woman who wears bikinis, or even regular clothes that I thought were immodest, is that something that I should just get over? Is that just me being judgmental? Shouldn't she have the say in what she considers to be modest or immodest? I don't know I'm just thinking out loud here now.

I'm just looking for some insight/advice on how I should think about this issue in my personal life. Thanks for reading if you did!

(and yes I know men can be just as immodest, but as a male I am speaking from my POV, so please don't freak out and think I'm acting all high and mighty here as though men can't be immodest, they can be, but again I'm just speaking from a man's POV and what I should look for)

I TOTALLY agree

I have had this problem and see it as a problem nowadays too. See women, and men wearing seducive clothing and clothing that shows off their a55 and stuff. They SAY they do it for comfort, but real reason is lust and to find a mate.

This is something I like about the muslims, muslim women have to wear those big similar to nun dresses. The muslims say that the reason why they wear that is so people don't look lust at them or get any lustful thoughts. I admire that and like that way of thinking, see there is NOTHING sexual about that and when you see a woman wearing that, you just don't think lust thoughts.

But if you see a woman wearing some VERY tight yoga pants, super tight jeans, bikini, push up bras and showing cleavage... it's ridiculous and the complete opposite. SO MANY women deny they do this for attention and say "cos it's comfortable", but the real reason is cos they want people to get lust thoughts looking at them. Compare those women to the women in that muslim dress thing that shows nothing. That muslim dress thing is modest and hides all the sexual parts, modern and clothing that normal females wear everyday IS seducive and causes people to lust. I'd like, as a Christian, that maybe there would be some form of modest clothing in our religion too, to stop this causing of lust.

 

[EarnestQ]

If one wants to make a strong point to a person dressed more revealing than one is comfortable with, one might say to them, "May I humbly invite you to not display to me any part of your body you don't want me to touch? At the very least, you are forcing me to touch it with my eyes. And, although you are very attractive, it is not good for me to think about you in that way. I would rather have you as a sister and not be forced to resist how attractive you are."

Just a thought. I expect there are far better ways to handle it.

I expect a mature Christian would accept the comment; the immature or non-Christian - who knows?

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Here is a problem I find.

I hate to dress girly (skirt and blouse)
The wast majority of nice blouses are tight (VERY tight), if they are not, they are so loose they look shabby.
Most skirts are fairly short, and they are (almost) always synthetic and way to cold to wear during Norwegian winters.

If I am to wear the stereotypical (from my parents generation) church clothes, what the stores offer are cold, tight, short clothes. Not very modest is it?

Or I could wear pants and a t- shirt. ... but if the pants are to look somewhat neat, once again, all I can choose are tight pants. (I prefer baggy ones, but again, they look very .... releaxed... not the stereotypical getting dressed for church).

I remember arguing with my parents because I hate "nice clothes", and would rather wear the baggy, worn ones to church.

How can one be modest when there are few modest clothes that the "church crowd" find "nice enough"?

 

[JosephsDreams]

THOUGHT 3:
What you said about being attracted to more modest women reminds me of another saying. "You get what you advertise for." Men make a point of flexing and showing off, women wear those dresses that they almost have on... then you hear them complaining they can't find a good partner, all they attract are scumbags. Hmm, might be a reason for that.

I know I don't find it attractive when a woman wears very little in a desperate attempt to draw attention to her body... but I know some men who are attracted to that, and I know what those men are like.

My son is a perfect example of this. There are other factors, yet a major element why he attracts woman that I would deem, let describe them as...less then marriage material - at this time...I guess that would be a way to state it, is because he is jacked to the hilt.
Only 5'10" but he is about 200 lbs of a slab of muscle. He has been working out steady for around 8 years, and is still in his prime age for looks, he is in his early 30's.
Even if he wears loose clothes, which he usually doesn't, the way he looks, the way he moves and talks, he is a walking advertisement of immodesty.
His Facebook page is full of pictures of him showing off his physique.
So what type woman do you think he is attracting?
My words go on deaf ears. I stopped talking to him about it. So I try to be a good example, and I pray he comes to know Jesus.

 

[JosephsDreams]

When I was a teenager my Dad and In would often argue about make up and clothing. If he thought I had to much makeup on or short's were to short, he'd say, no, change or with make up to much, take some off. I'd get so mad at him. Now that I have a daughter, I get it. She's not in those stages yet, but she'll be mad at me too eventually.

I went through that with my two daughters, who are now in their early 30's.
They had me fooled.
They use to go as far as hiding their clothes at a friends house, or stashing them somewhere on another block in the weeds or someplace.
Finally I caught on. I wouldn't let them go out for a month when I found out.