Why most Christians are going to hell?

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Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
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I've always been open about my sin problems. The only reason why I hold back on some details is due to how the internet has treated me, in the past. And due to how my former pastor treated my family. I learned that a lot of people aren't trustworthy.
This is sad, but, unfortunately, very often true.

In my particular case, having had to remove A TREMENDOUS BEAM FROM MY OWN EYE FIRST, I can both empathize and sympathize with you without any desire to judge you whatsoever.

Again, I'll be praying for you.
 

RodB651

Active member
Feb 11, 2021
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John 21:20-23...
20 Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, “Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?” 21 When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord, what about this man?” 22 Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” 23 So the saying spread abroad among the brothers that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?”

I really hesitated to jump in to this frey. But should we really be worried about all those that have died without hearing the gospel over the last 2000 years or so?.. Don't you think God is fair and wise enough to resolve that Himself?.. Will He condemn someone who never heard the gospel?.. Let Him handle that...

I quoted the above verse because of what Jesus said to Peter, " What is that to you? ".. "You follow me!" ...
 
S

Seeking-Christ

Guest
The problem I have with salvation is this... It seems like you got to call on the name of the lord, and then start living a sinless life to be saved. And who can do that? it seems like most of us agree that you can't commit adultery and be saved at the same time. Which begs the question, if you ever struggled with lust in your past, did that mean before you got over it, if you would of died then you would of gone to hell?
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
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The problem I have with salvation is this... It seems like you got to call on the name of the lord, and then start living a sinless life to be saved. And who can do that? it seems like most of us agree that you can't commit adultery and be saved at the same time. Which begs the question, if you ever struggled with lust in your past, did that mean before you got over it, if you would of died then you would of gone to hell?
I think that the key word in your question is "struggled".

If God sees you fighting against it, which is what a genuine "struggle" is, then isn't that a sign that your heart is towards him?
 
S

Seeking-Christ

Guest
I think that the key word in your question is "struggled".

If God sees you fighting against it, which is what a genuine "struggle" is, then isn't that a sign that your heart is towards him?
Maybe, but can one back up that view from scripture? I think the reason why He struggles is because 1/2 of him still wants to look, and the other half doesn't. Which means He hasn't completely surrendered to the Lord.
 

RodB651

Active member
Feb 11, 2021
265
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Well, I walked into this ... (deep sigh)...

I've been living and walking out this Christian life as best I can over the last thirty years... Non of it sinless I assure you. If someone is living it sinless right now, I'd like to meet them. Paul wrote of his struggles in Romans... He struggled, so did the rest of them... Your in good company.
 
S

Seeking-Christ

Guest
Well, I walked into this ... (deep sigh)...

I've been living and walking out this Christian life as best I can over the last thirty years... Non of it sinless I assure you. If someone is living it sinless right now, I'd like to meet them. Paul wrote of his struggles in Romans... He struggled, so did the rest of them... Your in good company.
That is why this is a good subject.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
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Maybe, but can one back up that view from scripture? I think the reason why He struggles is because 1/2 of him still wants to look, and the other half doesn't.
In relation to the struggle itself, we read:

Ephesians chapter 6

[10] Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
[11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
[12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
[13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Your struggle or wrestling match is NOT against flesh and blood, but against demonic forces instead. With such being the case, you need to learn how to use your spiritual armor and weaponry.

Again, we read:

II Corinthians chapter 10

[3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
[4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)
[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
[6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Again, the weapons of our warfare are NOT carnal because we are not fighting against flesh and blood opponents, but against demonic forces instead.

As far as the double-mindedness that you inquired about is concerned, that needs to be repented of as you seek to renew your mind to get in line with the mind of Christ. Again, you need spiritual weapons to cast down these imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ, while seeking to bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ because you're dealing with demonic forces.

Look, let me tell you what somebody told me many years ago:

God doesn't deliver us from our friends.

He delivers us from our enemies.

Renounce Satan and any demons which you may have yielded yourself to in the past.

If we truly submit ourselves unto God, then, and only then, can we resist the devil and he will flee from us.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,124
472
83
Well, I walked into this ... (deep sigh)...

I've been living and walking out this Christian life as best I can over the last thirty years... Non of it sinless I assure you. If someone is living it sinless right now, I'd like to meet them. Paul wrote of his struggles in Romans... He struggled, so did the rest of them... Your in good company.
The struggle of which Paul spoke in Romans chapter 7 was the struggle which he had while still under the law.

I could literally write a book on that topic...
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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Looking away doesn't always work. That only works if you only got one or two attractive women around you. When I was in high school, there were bunches or them. And they all wore low cut tops, and showed as much leg as they could.

It works for everyone. Frankly this even works for the non religious man. It's called growing up, being mature. Taking control of your thoughts and actions.

Even the world expects men of noble character to be able to control their thoughts and treatment toward women. Because it can be controlled.

It's no different than quitting smoking. Actually it is much easier than quitting smoking. But the principle of being willing to suffer temporarily until you get on the other side of withdrawal applies.

Look away, walk away, don't look back. Hard at first, but easy after a few weeks. Super easy after a few years because your mind is repulsed by what you use to look at. It works for everyone.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,124
472
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It works for everyone.
No, it does not.

In fact, just looking away never worked for me UNTIL the time came that I got delivered from the demons who I had previously yielded my members to or who were driving me to lust in the first place.
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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395
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No, it does not.

In fact, just looking away never worked for me UNTIL the time came that I got delivered from the demons who I had previously yielded my members to or who were driving me to lust in the first place.
I am sure that any crying out to God for deliverance you did was answered by God. He delights in answering such prayers.

I believe that we yield our member as instruments of unrighteousness and are enslaved by this.

We then by the Spirit yield our members as instruments of righteousness and get enslaved to righteousness. Romans 6


Even if someone gets prayer for deliverance they still have to walk out the initial resisting of the temptation, yielding their members to righteousness until that becomes their habit/ And prayers of deliverance what good they do, do not allow us any short cuts to walking out the resisting temptation and yielding to God part.

So whether someone has a testimony of prayers for deliverance or not, all believers who have victory over these lusts of the flesh will testify that they also had to go through the path of saying no to the temptation, obeying Christ and getting victory, one at a time until they became strong in that area. It works for everyone.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,124
472
83
I am sure that any crying out to God for deliverance you did was answered by God. He delights in answering such prayers.

I believe that we yield our member as instruments of unrighteousness and are enslaved by this.

We then by the Spirit yield our members as instruments of righteousness and get enslaved to righteousness. Romans 6


Even if someone gets prayer for deliverance they still have to walk out the initial resisting of the temptation, yielding their members to righteousness until that becomes their habit/ And prayers of deliverance what good they do, do not allow us any short cuts to walking out the resisting temptation and yielding to God part.

So whether someone has a testimony of prayers for deliverance or not, all believers who have victory over these lusts of the flesh will testify that they also had to go through the path of saying no to the temptation, obeying Christ and getting victory, one at a time until they became strong in that area. It works for everyone.
That I can agree with, and I certainly wasn't insinuating anything different.

In fact, in my own testimony that I linked to, I mentioned the whole thing about who we yield our members to as recorded in Romans chapter 6.

My point was that if someone isn't genuinely delivered from a demonic stronghold, then just looking away isn't enough. They need to be delivered first, and then they'll be able to just look away in the future.
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
1,330
395
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No, it does not.

In fact, just looking away never worked for me UNTIL the time came that I got delivered from the demons who I had previously yielded my members to or who were driving me to lust in the first place.
Most of the people who had abnormally excessive issues in this area who have gone to ministries like Pure Life and others have had to learn how to overcome the thought life and they did it by following the same biblical instructions of Romans 6 and other passages in the bible about our sanctification.

Even the ones that teach about demonic oppression and prayers of deliverance still follow up with these same scriptures of daily sanctification through resisting sin, obeying Christ, and Faith. So I put the emphasis on these scriptures and following them since they don't actually talk about praying to be delivered from a demon I don't mix that in with Romans 6 as part of it. But I won't argue with someone's personal experience or the benefit they received from praying for deliverance. After all there are lots of scriptures that support crying out to God in desperation for deliverance and so I don't really care if someone thinks they had a demon or not, I believe that even if they did not have a demon, God answers their prayer for deliverance and gives them the Grace they need to press in and overcome when they do get tempted (and they will) That next time they will find it was easier than ever before to say no.

But the emphasis I teach is on both the Crying out to God for deliverance and help and the preparation to say no when the temptation comes having faith in the Power of God through the Spirit and getting on the other side, even if you experience suffering in the heat of the battle, one battle at a time, which will quickly turn into a slave of righteousness and strong in those areas where you were weak. And soon it won't even be a battle. The first reaction is to look away or think noble thoughts. And soon the first reaction is repulsed by what you used to look at. This works for everyone. No one is left behind. But few are willing to suffer, so they keep yielding to sin.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,124
472
83
Most of the people who had abnormally excessive issues in this area who have gone to ministries like Pure Life and others have had to learn how to overcome the thought life and they did it by following the same biblical instructions of Romans 6 and other passages in the bible about our sanctification.

Even the ones that teach about demonic oppression and prayers of deliverance still follow up with these same scriptures of daily sanctification through resisting sin, obeying Christ, and Faith. So I put the emphasis on these scriptures and following them since they don't actually talk about praying to be delivered from a demon I don't mix that in with Romans 6 as part of it. But I won't argue with someone's personal experience or the benefit they received from praying for deliverance. After all there are lots of scriptures that support crying out to God in desperation for deliverance and so I don't really care if someone thinks they had a demon or not, I believe that even if they did not have a demon, God answers their prayer for deliverance and gives them the Grace they need to press in and overcome when they do get tempted (and they will) That next time they will find it was easier than ever before to say no.

But the emphasis I teach is on both the Crying out to God for deliverance and help and the preparation to say no when the temptation comes having faith in the Power of God through the Spirit and getting on the other side, even if you experience suffering in the heat of the battle, one battle at a time, which will quickly turn into a slave of righteousness and strong in those areas where you were weak. And soon it won't even be a battle. The first reaction is to look away or think noble thoughts. And soon the first reaction is repulsed by what you used to look at. This works for everyone. No one is left behind. But few are willing to suffer, so they keep yielding to sin.
Well, it's rather obvious that you don't believe that a Christian can have a demon inside of them, and you're dead wrong on that one.

Anyhow, I'm all for daily sanctification, so I have no argument against that portion of your posts whatsoever.
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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That I can agree with, and I certainly wasn't insinuating anything different.

In fact, in my own testimony that I linked to, I mentioned the whole thing about who we yield our members to as recorded in Romans chapter 6.

My point was that if someone isn't genuinely delivered from a demonic stronghold, then just looking away isn't enough. They need to be delivered first, and then they'll be able to just look away in the future.
I would not argue with you about this demonic stronghold issue because I don't know everything. That might be exactly what it is. Or what it should be called.
At this point I lean toward the understanding that it "seems like that" to us. It "seems like" we can't stop doing something, but I think that is just a way of describing the intensity of the habit. The intensity of the feeling, or desire we are trying to satisfy by yielding.

This intensity is harder to resist at the beginning. And the first step in the right direction is to get serious with God. You see I don't believe that a demon has any involuntary control over a born again Christian. But certainly they are involved in tempting him/her.
That fleshly pleasure crying out to be satisfied from long years of habit is going to scream the loudest at the beginning of our battle to quit it, but when we cry out to God telling Him that we would rather die resisting that sin because we love God with all our heart, soul, body, mind and strength, and really mean it, He is going to give us Grace to say no and it will be easier than it when we tried it before when we were not willing to die resisting sin.

Someone can get that sort of heart cry going on when they start praying for demons to come out, but in reality no demons are posessing them, they are just finally getting serious with God. They are showing forth the beginnings of true repentance and God will help them see this through. I think credit gets given to these deliverance from demons ideas that is not really scriptural but the crying out to God and meaning business is very scriptural. So God sees the heart and helps them.

But I could be wrong. Maybe some demons are cast into the abyss in the mix. Who knows. :)
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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I think it comes down to free will. Once we become saved, do we no longer have free will (to change how we act, what we believe, etc.)? I don't think it is consistent to say that once we become saved, we have free will to commit sin, but we don't have free will to change belief. With David, he was remorseful later and still believed. God still punished him severely by taking away his son. But what if David rejected God once God took away his son? A better exampe is King Saul who was God fearing in the beginning and Bible says he had the fruit, but later it is uclear about his salvation since he let his flesh take over.

In the beginning, Saul was filled with the Spirit and prophesied with the other prophets (1 Samuel 10:10–13).
I could not save myself by anything I chose to do. I could not change myself. I knew that I was killing myself by alcohol abuse, but I could not stop. However, God could and did change me. He caused me to be born again. I am a new creation in Christ. Now I can choose not to live as a new creation. But there is something deep within that motivates me to go God's way.

Will follows desire. If we have the desire in our heart, we will choose to bring that desire to pass. Advertising works on that principle. Those who are born again have a new set of desires. They conflict with the desires of self that still hang around. For example, I got mad at God and tried to go back to my drinking days. I sat in a bar as I used to do. I was like a fish out of water and I had to leave. The inner desire to be free and clean overrode the rebellion and self pity that pushed me back to my old ways.

Some Christians do quit walking with God, for whatever reason. That does not mean they are going to hell. It does mean that they miss out on God's best, they miss out on eternal blessings and they suffer great loss in this life too. I've met Christians that I knew decades ago. They backslid to the point where they had no ongoing fellowship with God. Somehow God brought them back. It cost them both a great deal of unnecessary heartache, but that's how stubborn, proud and rebellious people have suffer before they will repent.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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I would not argue with you about this demonic stronghold issue because I don't know everything. That might be exactly what it is. Or what it should be called.
At this point I lean toward the understanding that it "seems like that" to us. It "seems like" we can't stop doing something, but I think that is just a way of describing the intensity of the habit. The intensity of the feeling, or desire we are trying to satisfy by yielding.

This intensity is harder to resist at the beginning. And the first step in the right direction is to get serious with God. You see I don't believe that a demon has any involuntary control over a born again Christian. But certainly they are involved in tempting him/her.
That fleshly pleasure crying out to be satisfied from long years of habit is going to scream the loudest at the beginning of our battle to quit it, but when we cry out to God telling Him that we would rather die resisting that sin because we love God with all our heart, soul, body, mind and strength, and really mean it, He is going to give us Grace to say no and it will be easier than it when we tried it before when we were not willing to die resisting sin.

Someone can get that sort of heart cry going on when they start praying for demons to come out, but in reality no demons are posessing them, they are just finally getting serious with God. They are showing forth the beginnings of true repentance and God will help them see this through. I think credit gets given to these deliverance from demons ideas that is not really scriptural but the crying out to God and meaning business is very scriptural. So God sees the heart and helps them.

But I could be wrong. Maybe some demons are cast into the abyss in the mix. Who knows. :)
Satan is a liar, a murderer and the destroyer. Demons are real. Satan will try to get Christians to focus on the wrong cause of a problem. You can't cast out the works of the flesh, so Satan will try to convince you it is a demon. Demons will try to convince us that they are not there so that they can torment us two ways. They will incite the believer to sin then condemn him for the sin.

It is also true that demons work on the fleshly lusts of Christians. If we fail to resist temptation, we will open ourselves up to demons. I know this to be true in reality. I had a problem that overwhelmed me. A brother in the Lord discerned the problem and cast out the demon. It was instant freedom. I've had other deliverances also. We have God's armour, but if we get complacent we may let our guard down. Armour is useless if we do not put it on and the sword of the Spirit ineffective if we do not wield it.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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Perhaps if you prayed the sinners prayer, your not really a Christian. Here is what Ray Comfort says about that.

Why don't you pray the "Sinner's Prayer" with people?



Why Doesn’t Ray Comfort Use the Sinner’s Prayer?



Why Salvation DOESN’T Come by Asking Jesus into Your Heart



You'll Stop Using the Sinner's Prayer After Watching This

How about telling people how they can be saved, not just telling them how not to be saved?
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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@XavierJesusLovesIndia

My personal opinion is that everyone needs to take the first step of faith. And I think that often comes in the form of a prayer. And I think that is why the "Sinners Prayer" was formulated. But it can be prayed with motives. And i have often wondered if maybe I prayed it with wrong motives. But there seems to be this other weird thing. That is, once you got in Jesus into your heart, then you got to live "holy" or else. We got to define the word "holy" because as far as I can tell, nobody is ever completely "holy". So then it seems that there are specific sins that a believer better not commit. or at least not on a regular basis, or He or She ends up in Hell anyways.
In order to be saved, you must accept that you are a sinner - God only saves sinners. This is harder than it may sound. Most people think that they are "good". They may agree that they've done some wrong things, but they believe that fundamentally they are OK and can't see why God would reject them. The truth of God's word will shake them up.

They also need to repent, that is literally to have a change of mind. They need to accept that they are sinners and that they have no hope of entering heaven. That needs to cut deep into the heart. It's not enough to have a mental agreement. When someone is so convicted that they say, "What can I do?", they are ready to receive Christ in reality. They then need to see that Christ was punished for their sin and that His blood pays the price. Each individual must receive Christ, not just believe the facts about Him.

"Inviting Jesus into your heart" is not the answer. He will not come into a dead, sinful heart. The heart must first be changed. God will do that as we cry out to Him to save us.

It's not a formula. There are no "magic words". But if we mean business with God, He will bring us to the place where we can accept Christ and so be born again.