Preestination and Free will Questions?

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Jul 11, 2022
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#1
Can someone explain to me predestination and free will when God controls everything? Is it true that God knows your future destination of being saved or damned to hell when you are in your mother's womb about to be born? Is it also true that God knows every decision that you're going to make and he controls every decision that you're going to make?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,554
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#2
I do not believe God is a puppet master. That would make Him the author of evil.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this:
Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,203
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#3
I do not believe God is a puppet master. That would make Him the author of evil.
.
Well thank God you are finally making progress.
Because calling God evil is the accusation of Satan himself.
And......it is a trap, a snare, by which he deceived 1/3 of the angels.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,203
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#4
Can someone explain to me predestination and free will when God controls everything? Is it true that God knows your future destination of being saved or damned to hell when you are in your mother's womb about to be born? Is it also true that God knows every decision that you're going to make and he controls every decision that you're going to make?
Here you go. Enough food for thought to last you many years.

 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,203
8,418
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#5
Can someone explain to me predestination and free will when God controls everything? Is it true that God knows your future destination of being saved or damned to hell when you are in your mother's womb about to be born? Is it also true that God knows every decision that you're going to make and he controls every decision that you're going to make?
God NEVER violates free will insofar as worshipping Him is concerned. Not of angels nor of men.
Nor of covenanting with Him.

Free will = true life. Anything less is a fraud. And the lie of Satan.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#6
You are asking about one of the biggest mysteries of God here, in my opinion. How does God work with our wills, to bring about His perfect plan? Ultimately I believe this is just one of those thing beyond our ability to understand. I kind of grasp the idea that God is outside of time and space, that these things don't apply to Him and He is not constrained by them. He can see through all time at a glance, that at least makes some sense, but the Bible does talk about Him being the author of all history, He predestines, and elects. He grants us repentance and draws us in, yet the Bible is also VERY clear about the fact we have choice in these things as well. That we are free to accept Him and follow Him, or reject Him and turn to faith in ourselves and to death. Both these things are true and how they actually meet up and work together is very far beyond this simple minded fool. It is a great question though, and one I've thought of a lot.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,203
8,418
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#7
Can someone explain to me predestination and free will when God controls everything? Is it true that God knows your future destination of being saved or damned to hell when you are in your mother's womb about to be born? Is it also true that God knows every decision that you're going to make and he controls every decision that you're going to make?
Furthermore, despite the horrifically erroneous claims of the Reformed/Calvinists,
the terms predestination/predestined insofar as salvation is concerned has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE PAST.

That term ONLY defines the FUTURE of the redeemed.

Predestined = PRESCRIBED/PREPARED DESTINATION. This DESTINATION planned out from eternity past according to the ***foreknowledge*** of God. The end of the road. The final pit stop. Homeward bound we are.

And never forget: we here and now may CHOOSE to enter into the covenant of life, we may CHOOSE to drink the cup of betrothal, we may CHOOSE to receive Jesus as our Husband, where this DESTINATION is in effect the promised land of our rest.

Omniscient God, Who is outside of time, Who knows the end from the beginning, planned this salvation from eternity past, but He will NEVER FORCE anyone to receive it. On the contrary, God has provided us with testimony and witnesses that proclaim this plan to the finest detail. And now EACH MAN, being FULLY INFORMED must make a decision. Each man must give CONSENT and be WILLING to enter into the New Covenant.

Anything less and the accusation of Satan would be true. And the accusations of Satan are NEVER true.
But God, He is ALWAYS true, holy and just.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,554
29,797
113
#8
You are asking about one of the biggest mysteries of God here, in my opinion. How does God work with our wills, to bring about His perfect plan? Ultimately I believe this is just one of those thing beyond our ability to understand. I kind of grasp the idea that God is outside of time and space, that these things don't apply to Him and He is not constrained by them. He can see through all time at a glance, that at least makes some sense, but the Bible does talk about Him being the author of all history, He predestines, and elects. He grants us repentance and draws us in, yet the Bible is also VERY clear about the fact we have choice in these things as well. That we are free to accept Him and follow Him, or reject Him and turn to faith in ourselves and to death. Both these things are true and how they actually meet up and work together is very far beyond this simple minded fool. It is a great question though, and one I've thought of a lot.

Jesus’ words in John 6:65
:)
 

Ballaurena

Well-known member
May 27, 2024
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#9
Can someone explain to me predestination and free will when God controls everything? Is it true that God knows your future destination of being saved or damned to hell when you are in your mother's womb about to be born? Is it also true that God knows every decision that you're going to make and he controls every decision that you're going to make?
It's complicated. Remember that God is outside of time. Therefore when He creates you, He essentially reads the whole book of your life at once. I don't know how this can be without time, but this is also why God didn't know that Satan would rebel - our lives are not written out ahead.

Also, knowing isn't controlling. Just like I can know with certainty which kind of ice cream my roommate who hates strawberries and adores chocolate will pick every time she is given a choice between these two flavors, but that doesn't mean in the slightest that I am controlling her decision. And by the way, it is still a true choice for her each time, even though she will never choose strawberry - She just knows what she likes and has no reason to do otherwise

There are rarely absolutes with God, though, so there are rare exceptions to the above. Just like Jesus absolutely had to die on the cross, there can be points in your life that God does control. For example, if God has plans for someone, He may cause a particular event to happen to prepare them, or He may intervene to prevent their death.

Also, there are some intended paths that are not absolutes. For example, I know of two people that God intended to marry, but the guy screwed it up. The girl then made a poor decision herself. God hasn't given up on these people, but they are having to walk a harder path to get to where they need to be.

A good way to think of it all is that in our lives, most things (ex. what you eat, what you wear, when you go to the grocery store, etc.) are unwritten entirely. Other are penciled in (ex. Who you marry, possibly where you work or live). Still others are written in, in permanent ink (these tend to be very individualized to God's plans for the person).
 

j55

Active member
Sep 29, 2024
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#10
God's election don't have free will. In Acts chapter 9. Jesus struck Paul down on road to Damascus to persecution of the church. Paul is one of the election. Jesus did restore his sight after three day's, and given Holy Spirit. He was chosen vessel to preach to Lost sheep of Israel, Jews and Gentiles.

Three different groups here.
Spiritually dead.
Reprobates
Election

Romans chapter 11
What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The Elect among them did, rest were blinded. 11:8. God gave them Spirit of slumber.
The spiritually dead do love God, but they we're taught traditions of men, and there minds is conditioned from Early age. They don't have spiritual discernment. They weren't taught Gods word. Revelation chapter 20, this group will be taught by priests during milliumum. Many will obtain eternal life.

2 Corinthians chapter 4
Rather, we have denouced secret and shameful ways, we do not use Deception, nor do we distort the word of God.
Reprobates/false brethren infiltrated Body of Christ to cause division and contaminate God's word. They serve Satan.

4:3
And even if our gospel is veiled it is veiked to those are Perishing. 4:4. The god of thjs age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displayed Glory of Christ, who is image of God.

Reprobates are devoid of the Holy Spirit. They have unclesn Spirit. They're controlled by Satan. They have free will. They won't repent and hate God. They act normal, and use church as smoke screen. They have the mentality of Satan.
4:8
We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed, perplexed, but not despair, persecuted, but not abandoned, struck down, but not destroyed. The spiritually dead have free will also. When seed is planted in mind of spiritually dead, Jesus might germinate that seed. Or is spiritually dead person will remain with Spirit of slumber. It's Jesus decision if they have Spirit of slumber or granted Spirit of truth.

Kathairo in Greek means - demonic, unclesn Spirit. Reprobates have unclesn Spirit, and are in rebellion against God. They are child of the devil.
Romans chapter 1 18
Wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
1:28
God gave them over to a reprobate mind. This group is headed to hell.
Dakka in Hebrew means - destruction.
Anosios in Greek means - wicked
Panourgia in Greek means - trickey, crafty
Pseudadelphos in Greek means - false brethren
Chashowk in Chaldean means - darkness
Poneros in Greek means - malice, wicked, evil, lewd
Dophry in Hebrew means - slander, stumbling block
Damain in Hebrew means - Perish
Exanatello in Greek means - germinate
Belial in Greek means - Satan
Akanthinos in Greek means - thorns. These are Reprobates.
Nuwm in Hebrew means - slumber
Pseustres in Greek means - liar
Pseudonumos in Greek means - falsey called. False brethren
Theostuges in Greek means - haters of God

1 Peter chapter 1
Elect, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obiedence and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.
The Elect have Holy Spirit. They are shepherds, they plant seeds for God. They are called out of the world. To serve Jesus.
Ephesians chapter 1. Paul, apostle of Jesus Christ by the Will of God, to the saints which are at ephesus. The saint's are God's Elect.
1:4
According as he has chosen us in him before foundation of the world,. 1:5. Having Predestined us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ himself. The Elect we're judged and chosen in first earth age. The position for election can't be voluntary.
John chapter 15. You did not choose me, but I choose you, and appointed you that you should go, and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide. The Elect plant seeds for God, its good fruit.
2 Timothy chapter 1:9. Who saved us, and called us to holy calling,not because of our works, but because of his own purpose and grace. The Elect are shepherds. It can be position in church or seed planter. They utilize their gifts and abilities to glorified Jesus.
John 6:44
No ome can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up last day. Holy Spirit is the key.

Titus chapter 1:1. Paul servant of God, and apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of Gods Elect, and thier knowledge of truth, which accords with godliness.
God depends on his election to bear fruit and witness for Jesus. In world filled with false shepherd's.
Acts chapter 20
Be on guard for your selves and for all the flock, among which holy Spirit made you Overseers to shepherd the church of God. God's election.
Tahaloom in Hebrew means - secret, hid
Towbunah in Greek means - wisdom, reason,
Proorizo in Greek means - Predestined, ordain
Proginosko in Greek means - fore knew, ordain
Hagiasmos in Greek means - sanctification . Called and chosen.
Ovepa in Greek means - called and chosen
Eklegomai in Greek means - elect, election.
Ekletos in Greek means - divine selection. Elect.

Three different groups.
I hope this helps you.
Peace.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
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#11
Can someone explain to me predestination and free will when God controls everything? Is it true that God knows your future destination of being saved or damned to hell when you are in your mother's womb about to be born? Is it also true that God knows every decision that you're going to make and he controls every decision that you're going to make?
If God controlled your every decision, that would mean every time you sinned, God made you do it.
Every rape, murder, genocide, etc... is all being done by God. And if that's true what would it say about the true nature and character of God?
Or why would people make bad decisions? Why would they reject God? He could simple make them make good decisions and follow him. But that would make us slaves or robots, not adopted sons and daughters. In fact you could say Adam and Eve never would have eaten the fruit.

Also as pointed out by a previous poster, knowledge of what's ahead is not the same as controlling it.

And as another user pointed out, God is outside of time.
In fact time, as humans know and understand it, is itself a creation of God. God is capable of seeing the existence we know, from start to finish.
 

Randy4u2c

Active member
Sep 13, 2022
172
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#12
Can someone explain to me predestination and free will when God controls everything? Is it true that God knows your future destination of being saved or damned to hell when you are in your mother's womb about to be born? Is it also true that God knows every decision that you're going to make and he controls every decision that you're going to make?
Okay, I'll try but it's a little deep. There are THREE world ages. One has perished and we are living in the second, (II Pet 3:6-7.) The third is yet to come, (Rev 21:1-5.) In the first world age Satan rebelled against God causing his own downfall, (Isa 14:12-16) and the destruction of that world age, (Jer 4:22-27.) Those that stood against Satan in that first world age are justified to be predestined for salvation in this world age and to serve God, (Jer 1:5, II Thes 2:13, Eph 1:4.) All the other souls that were deceived by Satan in that first world age must pass through this earth age and make a decision whether they will love God or follow Satan. These have free will to make their own decision.

God knows that these souls fell short in the first world age, being deceived by Satan and is allowing them the opportunity to gain salvation through Christ, IF they choose to do so on their own free will. He will not interfere with them making this decision as true love towards God must develop from within and come from the heart. But he will and can intercede on behalf of his elect as they have already been justified by God for their actions in the first world age when they stood against Satan.

God's elect will make the stand against Satan in this second earth age, when he is cast out of heaven, (Rev 12:7-9) and comes to earth claiming to be God, (II Thes 2:3-4.) When they are delivered up before Satan (Antichrist), they will testify against him with the Holy Spirit speaking through them to expose Satan as an imposter, (Math 10:16-20, Mark 13:9-11, Luke 12:11-12.) The elect are used by God to stand against Satan in these end times just as they had in that first world age. The only ones that will be damned to hell are the ones that disregard God's word and reject Jesus as Savior. I hope this helps to answer your question. I know it is deep and not many are aware of the three world ages and unfortunately it is not commonly taught.
 

MeowFlower

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Aug 25, 2024
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#13
Can someone explain to me predestination and free will when God controls everything? Is it true that God knows your future destination of being saved or damned to hell when you are in your mother's womb about to be born? Is it also true that God knows every decision that you're going to make and he controls every decision that you're going to make?
Proverbs has a good synopsis to answer your first question. 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

As does 2 Timothy 1:9
Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began...

https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination