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PyongPing

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#41
The texts of Jude 1:1-25 have a special chiastic structure (an unbreakable (John 10:35) parallelism in and of themselves, as a for instance, compare:

Jude 1:5 - I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.​
Jude 1:6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.​
Jude 1:7 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.​
Jude 1:8 - Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.​

[1]

Jude 1:5 - “... out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.”​
[like Dathan, Abiram, and Korah [aka Core], Numbers 16:32, 26:10, etc, these all spoke evil of dignities [against Moses, Aaron and others also later spoke against Joshua]
Jude 1:8 - “... speak evil of dignities.”​

[2]

Jude 1:6 - “... the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation ...”​
[“first estate” refers to the arch-offices that many of the angels left in following Lucifer, who left his own God-given place and sought the place of the Son of God, hence the word: anti-christ, for they came to despise to be ruled by 'Jesus']
Jude 1:8 - “... despise dominion ...”​

[3]

Jude 1:7 - “... Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh ...”​
Jude 1:8 - “... [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh ...”​

Also a comparison is to be made with the parallel texts of 2 Peter 2:1-22 and its own chiasm. Only two brief comparisons will be made at this time. The full comparison between the two Epistles may be seen in the Appendix 1 – The Epistles of Peter & Jude compared.

For instance, compare 2 Peter 2:10 with Jude 1:8:

2 Peter 2:10 - But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.​
Jude 1:8 - Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.​

[1]

2 Peter 2:10 - “... chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness ...”​
Jude 1:8 - “... these filthy dreamers defile the flesh ...”​

[2]

2 Peter 2:10 - “... despise government ...”​
Jude 1:8 - “... despise dominion ...”​

[3]

2 Peter 2:10 - “... Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.”​
Jude 1:8 - “... speak evil of dignities.”​

For instance, compare:

2 Peter 2:11 - Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.​
Jude 1:9 - Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.​

[1]

2 Peter 2:11 - “... angels ...”​
Jude 1:9 - “... archangel ...”​

[2]

2 Peter 2:11 - “... bring not railing accusation ...”​
Jude 1:9 - “... not bring … railing accusation ...”​

[3]

2 Peter 2:11 - “... against them ...”​
Jude 1:9 - “... against him ...”​
[4]

2 Peter 2:11 - “... the Lord.”​
Jude 1:9 - “... the Lord ...”​


Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Notice that each verse is a completely separate event,

Jude 1:5 - Egypt (Earth),
Jude 1:6 - Heaven (Heaven),
Jude 1:7 - Sodom and Gomorrah (Earth),

etc, but only tied to Judgment, and none of which mention Noah or the Flood and its events.

Jude 1:8 actually seals this Chiasm in its singular verse by covering again those events in individual reverse order.​

Notice of Jude 1:8:

"dreamers defile the flesh" Jude 1:8 [C2] - compare to Jude 1:7 [C1] [as those in Sodom/Gomorrah]
"despise dominion" Jude 1:8 [B2] - compare to Jude 1:6 [B1] [as the Angels despised God and their God-given place]
"speak evil of dignities" Jude 1:8 [A2] - compare to Jude 1:5 [A1] [as they did to Moses]

Therefore Jude's Chiasm reveals that the words "defile the flesh" [vs 8 C2] have nothing to do with and are not applied to the Angel passage and those who "kept not their first estate" and having "left their habitation" [vs 6 B1] , but rather refers directly to the passage dealing with Men of "Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them" who "gave themselves over to fornication" and "going after strange flesh" [vs 7 C1].
 

PyongPing

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#42
[XX] Appendix 1 – The Epistles of Peter & Jude compared. The following is a re-structured (for the forums, as the original is in a Table, and I apologize for having to re-present it this way, looks better in the Table) comparison of the texts of 1 & 2 Peter with Jude.

1 Peter 1:1​
“Peter, ...”​
2 Peter 1:1​
“Simon Peter, ...”​
Jude 1:1​
“Jude, ...”​
*******
1 Peter 1:1​
“... an apostle of ...”​
2 Peter 1:1​
“... a servant and an apostle of ...”​
Jude 1:1​
“... the servant of ...”​
*******
1 Peter 1:1​
“... Jesus Christ, ...”​
2 Peter 1:1​
“... Jesus Christ, ...”​
Jude 1:1​
“... Jesus Christ, and brother of James, ...”​
*******
1 Peter 1:1​
“... to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,”​
2 Peter 1:1​
“... to them ...”​
Jude 1:1​
“... to them that are ...”​
*******
1 Peter 1:2​
“Elect ...”​
2 Peter 1:1​
“... that have obtained like precious faith with us ...”​
Jude 1:1​
“... and called:” [*comes from the end of Jude 1:1]​
*******
1 Peter 1:2​
“... according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, ...”​
2 Peter 1:1​
“... through the righteousness of God ...”​
Jude 1:1​
“... sanctified by God the Father, ...”​
*******
1 Peter 1:2​
“... unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:”​
2 Peter 1:1​
“... and our Saviour Jesus Christ:”​
Jude 1:1​
“... and preserved in Jesus Christ, ...”​
*******
1 Peter 1:2​
“... Grace unto you, ...”​
2 Peter 1:2​
“Grace ...”​
Jude 1:2​
“... Mercy unto you, ...”​
*******
1 Peter 1:2​
“... and peace, ...”​
2 Peter 1:2​
“... and peace ...”​
Jude 1:2​
“... and peace, and love, ...”​
*******
1 Peter 1:2​
“... be multiplied.”​
2 Peter 1:2​
“... be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,”​
Jude 1:2​
“... be multiplied.”​
*******
1 Peter 2:11​
“Dearly beloved ...”​
Jude 1:3​
“Beloved, ...”​
*******
1 Peter 5:1​
“The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, ...”​
Jude 1:3​
“... it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you ...”​
*******
1 Peter 5:1​
“... and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:”​
Jude 1:3​
“... when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, ...”​
*******
1 Peter 5:9​
“Whom resist stedfast in the faith, ...”​
Jude 1:3​
“... that ye should earnestly contend for the faith ...”​
*******
1 Peter 5:9​
“... knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”​
Jude 1:3​
“... which was once delivered unto the saints.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:1​
“But there were false prophets also among the people, ...”​
Jude 1:4​
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:1​
“... even as there shall be false teachers among you, ...”​
Jude 1:4​
“... ungodly men, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:1​
“... who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, ...”​
Jude 1:4​
“... turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:1​
“... even denying the Lord that bought them, ...”​
Jude 1:4​
“... and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:1​
“... and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”​
2 Peter 2:2​
“And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”​
Jude 1:5​
“I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:3​
“And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:4​
“For if God spared not the angels ...”​
Jude 1:6​
“And the angels ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:4​
“... that sinned, ...”​
Jude 1:6​
“... which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:4​
“... but cast them down to hell, and delivered ...”, “... to be reserved ...” [*the second portion comes from the end of 2 Peter 2:4]​
Jude 1:6​
“... he hath reserved ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:4​
“... them into chains of darkness, ...” [*darkness, see also 2 Peter 2:17, “... mist of darkness ...” and Jude 1:13, “... blackness of darkness...”]​
Jude 1:6​
“... in everlasting chains under darkness ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:4​
“... unto judgment;”​
Jude 1:6​
“... unto the judgment of the great day.”​
*******
... continued ...​
 

PyongPing

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#43
... continued ...

2 Peter 2:5​
“And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;”​
*******
2 Peter 2:6​
“And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, ...”​
Jude 1:7​
“Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:6​
“... making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;”​
Jude 1:7​
“... are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:7​
“And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:”​
2 Peter 2:8​
“(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)”​
Jude 1:7​
“... giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, ...” [*this is the middle portion of Jude 1:7]​
*******
2 Peter 2:9​
“The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:” [* see also 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6, “reserved”]​
*******
2 Peter 2:10​
“But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, ...” [*see also 2 Peter 2:20, “pollutions”]​
Jude 1:8​
“Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:10​
“... and despise government. ...”​
Jude 1:8​
“... despise dominion, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:10​
“... Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.”​
Jude 1:8​
“... and speak evil of dignities.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:11​
“Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, ...”​
Jude 1:9​
“Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:11​
“... bring not ...”​
Jude 1:9​
“... durst not bring ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:11​
“... railing accusation ...”​
Jude 1:9​
“... a railing accusation, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:11​
“... against them ...”​
Jude 1:9​
“... against him, ...” [*this goes between 'durst not bring', and 'a railing accusation' in Jude 1:9]​
*******
2 Peter 2:11​
“... before the Lord.”​
Jude 1:9​
“... but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:12​
“But these, ...”​
Jude 1:10​
“But these ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:12​
“... as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, ...”​
Jude 1:10​
“... as brute beasts, ...” [*this comes after 'know not: but what they know naturally' in Jude 1:10]​
*******
2 Peter 2:12​
“... speak evil ...”​
Jude 1:10​
“... speak evil ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:12​
“... of the things ...”​
Jude 1:10​
“... of those things ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:12​
“... that they ...”​
Jude 1:10​
“... which they ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:12​
“... understand not; ...”​
Jude 1:10​
“... know not: but what they know naturally, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:12​
“... and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;”​
Jude 1:10​
“... in those things they corrupt themselves.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:13​
“And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, ...” [*see also 2 Peter 2:15, 'wages of unrighteousness']​
Jude 1:12​
“These are spots ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:13​
“... sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;”​
Jude 1:12​
“... in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: ...” [*the latter portion is related to 2 Peter 2:17]​
*******
2 Peter 2:14​
“Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:”​
*******
... to be continued ...​
 

PyongPing

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#44
... continued ...

2 Peter 2:15​
“Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, ...”​
Jude 1:11​
“Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:15​
“... following the way ...”​
Jude 1:11​
“... and ran ... after ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:15​
“... of Balaam the son of Bosor, who ...”​
2 Peter 2:16​
“But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad ... of the prophet.”​
Jude 1:11​
“... of Balaam ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:15​
“... loved ...”​
Jude 1:11​
“... greedily ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:16​
“... the madness ...”​
Jude 1:11​
“... the error ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:15​
“... the wages of unrighteousness; ...” [*see also 2 Peter 2:13, 'reward of unrighteousness']​
Jude 1:11​
“... for reward, ...”​
*******
Jude 1:11​
“... and perished in the gainsaying of Core.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:17​
“These are wells without water, clouds ...”​
Jude 1:12​
“... clouds they are without water, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:17​
“... that are carried ...”​
Jude 1:12​
“... carried ...”​
*******

2 Peter 2:17​
“... with a tempest; ...”​
Jude 1:12​
“... about of winds; ...”​
*******
Jude 1:12​
“... trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;”​
*******
Jude 1:13​
“Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; ...”​
*******
Jude 1:13​
“... wandering stars, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:17​
“... to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.”​
Jude 1:13​
“... to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.”​
*******
Jude 1:14​
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,”​
*******
2 Peter 2:18​
“For when they ...”​
Jude 1:15​
“To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:18​
“... speak great swelling words ...”​
Jude 1:15​
“... hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”​
*******
Jude 1:16​
“These are murmurers, complainers, ... and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:18​
“... of vanity, ...”​
Jude 1:16​
“... having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.”​
*******
2 Peter 2:18​
“... they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, ...”​
Jude 1:16​
“... walking after their own lusts; ...”​
*******
2 Peter 2:18​
“... those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.” [*see 2 Peter 2:20, 'escaped']​
*******
2 Peter 2:19​
“While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.”​
*******
... to be continued ...​
 

PyongPing

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#45
... to be continued ...
2 Peter 2:20​
“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.”​
2 Peter 2:21​
“For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.”​
Jude 1:17​
“But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;”​
*******
2 Peter 2:22​
“But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”​
*******
2 Peter 3:3​
“Knowing this first, ...”​
Jude 1:18​
“How that they told you ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:3​
“... that there shall come in the last days scoffers, ...”​
Jude 1:18​
“... there should be mockers in the last time, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:3​
“... walking after ...”​
Jude 1:18​
“... who should walk after ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:3​
“... their own ...”​
Jude 1:18​
“... their own ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:3​
“... lusts,”​
Jude 1:18​
“... ungodly lusts.”​
*******
Jude 1:19​
“These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.”​
*******
Jude 1:20​
“But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,”​
*******
Jude 1:21​
“Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.”​
*******
Jude 1:22​
“And of some have compassion, making a difference:”​
*******
2 Peter 3:7​
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”​
2 Peter 3:8​
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”​
Jude 1:23​
“And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:9​
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”​
*******
2 Peter 3:10​
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”​
*******
2 Peter 3:11​
“Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,”​
*******
2 Peter 3:12​
“Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?”​
*******
2 Peter 3:13​
“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”​
*******
2 Peter 3:14​
“Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.”​
Jude 1:23​
“... hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”​
*******
2 Peter 3:17​
“Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.”​
Jude 1:24​
“Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,”​
*******
2 Peter 3:18​
“But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”​
Jude 1:25​
“To the only wise God our Saviour, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:18​
“... To him be glory ...”​
Jude 1:25​
“... be glory and majesty, dominion and power, ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:18​
“... both now ...”​
Jude 1:25​
“... both now ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:18​
“... and for ever. ...”​
Jude 1:25​
“... and ever. ...”​
*******
2 Peter 3:18​
“... Amen.”​
Jude 1:25​
“... Amen.”​
 

PyongPing

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#46
This is just the start. I can present more indepth tomorrow, as needful, and truly begin this study. Honest questions are fine, as those I do not mind.
 

Adstar

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#47
You just denied plain scripture before you, Jude 1:7. It is as clear as crystal. Angels have differing (hetero) flesh (sarx) than man-kind does, for 'angels' are a differing "kind". According to the Law of Genesis, "Kind" can only bring forth "Kind".

Feline (Cat) Kind have differing flesh than human flesh, Equine (horse) Kind have differing flesh than human flesh, Canine (Dog) Kind have differing flesh than human flesh, Pithecus (Gr. for Ape) Kind have differing flesh than human flesh, and so on. None can breed with humans, and neither with the other, as per God's own Law. See also 1 Corinthians 15:39-41.

Never in scripture is it ever granted to 'angels' anywhere to "multiply", "fill the earth", "bring forth after their kind", nor have they any "seed" to do so whatsoever, and so on. Jesus was clear also, that fallen mankind, in the likeness of this sinful flesh, are not yet as the Angels are (Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25) only exceptions are Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Firstfruits and Jesus, all of whom are in Heaven).

You would rather deny specifically what Jude 1:7 (and the whole of scripture for that matter, as I am about to fully demonstrate) says, and keep on going? That way lies the greatest danger for you. Please do not do so. I ask you to reconsider carefully Jude 1:7 in what it plainly says.

I quoted it right to you, and yet you say it says "what ever the nature"? It clearly says, "Hetero-sarx" (differing/strange flesh), because angels have unfallen nature, unfallen flesh (as per Hebrews 2:16), while man-kind upon this earth have sinful (fallen) flesh nature (Romans 8:3).

There is very much more to share on this subject, for God has indeed shown me the truth as it is written.

I have not even gotten to the serious contradictions that would arise otherwise yet.
I will deny your interpretation of Jude 7..

The Angels never multiplied with each other.. Because there is no Bible scripture identifying female Angels .. All Angels in scripture are Male.. The Angels that left their first estate did not have Angel offspring with human woman.. Their offspring where hybrids..

Jude 1: KJV

6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Satan was an Angel that sinned.. Therefore stating that:: """angels have unfallen nature, unfallen flesh (as per Hebrews 2:16), while man-kind upon this earth have sinful (fallen) flesh nature""" Makes absolutely no sense Angels clearly sinned because they where put into chains awaiting the day of judgement.. Also in the Book of Revelation it reveals that satan and his angels will fight a war in heaven against Michael and his angels::

Revelation 12: KJV
7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, {8} And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. {9} And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

So it is obvious that Angels can sin and have sinned and will sin and they shall be cast into the eternal lake of fire for their rebellion against the will of God..
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#48
This is just the start. I can present more indepth tomorrow, as needful, and truly begin this study. Honest questions are fine, as those I do not mind.
What do you think makes more sense here; a simple explanation for a simple verse, or; an exhaustive collaboration of excerpts not yet written to explain a single phrase, “the sons of the gods saw the daughters of men, that they were fair and took them as wives and laid with them producing offspring, the men of renown.”? Moses, if he did author Genesis, was educated in Egypt. He was aware of their orogin’s stories also. I’m certain those teachings were considered while he wrote to the Israelites, a tribe of nomadic shepherds. They weren’t scholars expecting to bridge the gaps as you did. When talking to children with limited understanding, when they ask complicated questions, you simplify the complex answers.

Just as you made a choice to believe what you believe, you interpret the rest to match your belief. It is no different then everyone else. The difference is that historically, and futuristically, the Bible makes perfect sense when you read it literally, not metaphorically. Many of the words have been translated and taught with confirmation bias and conjecture. Utilizing modern sciences and research the scriptures are better understood. God is better understood. Modern interpretation is clearly misunderstood. You are wasting your time with lengthy explanation here. There are no students at CC only teachers. No debate haa ever crowned a victor. People only believe what they choose to believe. Just as I have learned not to waste time, so should you. It’s frustrating.
 

PennEd

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#49
This is just the start. I can present more indepth tomorrow, as needful, and truly begin this study. Honest questions are fine, as those I do not mind.

Something about ever learning never coming to truth comes to mind... Ah the hubris that us unlearned peasants are so blessed to be fed by such a one.

So you admit that you are so bothered by the fact that fallen angels mated with human women producing hybrid beings that wherever you go you break out some sort of doctoral thesis to prove to yourself, cause certainly very few are reading your diatribe, that human beings mated with other human beings to produce Giant humans. Ignoring or twisting passages of Scripture that clearly state otherwise.

Brevity is a virtue. Something we should all strive for, especially outside of academia.
 

PennEd

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#50
Now on to the questions I posed.

1. Are the Sons of God fallen angels or Seth's children?
The ONLY other times the Hebrew term used in Genesis 6 is used is in Job clearly referring to Angels.

Short. Simple. Not to mention Jude tells us explicitly they ARE Angels.
 

PennEd

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#51
2. If it is not as Jude says, the sexual sin of going after strange flesh that the angels are being held in Tarturus until the final judgement, what sin ARE they being held for?

Your "Chiasms" fall apart because of the definition of the word "habitations". They did leave their governing office office or their "estate", but they ALSO left their Heavenly bodies, or "habitations". I already showed you how that word is only used one other time to describe OUR Heavenly body we will receive.

Word: oikhthrion
Pronounce: oy-kay-tay'-ree-on
Strongs Number: G3613
Orig: neuter of a presumed derivative of 3611 (equivalent to 3612); a residence (literally or figuratively):--habitation, house. G3611
Use: TDNT-5:155,674 Noun Neuter
Heb Strong:
  1. 1) a dwelling place, habitation
    1a) of the body as a dwelling place for the spirit
And Jude DEFINITELY relates the going after strange flesh in a sexual manner the men of Sodom committed (homosexuality) with the strange flesh in a sexual manner the fallen angels went after (Human beings).

So again you err in saying the only reason the angels are being held in Tartarus is for leaving their "estate".

Tartarus is where ONLY the fallen angels are held, not human beings.
 

Pumpkinspice

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#52
my eyelashes are long, that's what i get for being angelic.
 

PyongPing

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#53
"Sons of God"

Let us begin by quoting the two texts in Genesis 6 concerning the "sons of God", in their immediate context:

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,​
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.​
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.​
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.​

So, the question that is commonly asked by many [Christians and non-Christians alike]:

"Who are the "Sons of God" of Genesis 6:2,4?"

It would at first seem that there is no immediate nearby answer in the text, and so, a vast majority of people immediately leave the safety of the nearby context, looking elsewhere [generally along the lines of the apocryphal so-called "1 Book of Enoch", or other texts torn from their context and timeframe and patch-worked together], and come to the premature and hazardous conclusion that the "sons of God" (in Genesis 6:2,4) are "angels" [ie. the 'created beings of the Heavenly Host'; whether they be 'heavenly obedient angels' or 'rebellious angels that were cast out', called devils/demons/Baals, etc].

Those who come to such conclusions, drawing upon their sandy foundation, further conclude that these so-called "sons of God/angels" (as they now posit) intermixed, interbred, and/or, worse yet, forced themselves upon helpless "human" women - the "daughters of men", thus bringing about "demon-spawned super human-hybrids" [an unholy physical amalgamation of "angel/devil and mankind"] whom they then declare are the "giants" ["Nephilim", etc.], "mighty men which [were] of old" and "men of renown".

This is a rather rash, and even dangerously anti-thetical to the Gospel itself, conclusion, without a much further and deeper consideration of the texts themselves, and for those who already hold that view, please allow for some time to cover the texts most thoroughly.

Those who continue to promote that view despite what will be shown here, then do not fully consider the ramifications of their conclusion and what it would mean to the Gospel itself and end-time events. It actually destroys the Gospel.

So, a word of advice is that we not cling tightly to "private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20) which uses in evidence not only apocryphal materials with alternative agendas and anti-scriptural doctrines, and let us also not force the remaining scriptures to say that which they do not, but rather let the Word of God explain itself, line upon line (Ezekiel 28:10,13; Genesis 40:8).

There are some who tend to overly force the scriptures, more specifically, the three similar verses of scripture in the Book of Job [being Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7] out of it's immediate context and very often rejecting or bypassing every other word on the matter. Let us take some time upon these verses as well, even among so many others.

As will be revealed, it is quite unnecessary and extremely destructive to the Word of God to force those texts to say that which they do not say. Doing so will reveal some rather bizarre, errant ideologies and aberrant theologies – for instance:

[1] "devil-human-hybrids",​
[2] "physical lines of descendants of Satan (Serpent Seed theology)",​
[3] "alien conspiracies (Reptilian Masters)",​
[4] "super-human races",​
and in other known instances of which I am aware personally, was also being used and stretched beyond even farcical eisegesis to try and provide evidence for an​
[5] "evolutionary model and makeup within scripture [evolutionary model 'Neanderthal' breeding with various 'divergent' stock]", etc.​

However, before considering the immediate context, let us look and see why the term "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2,4 cannot be referring to the "Holy Angels" of the LORD [those 2/3 who had remained loyal]:

These Angels (the loyal "angels" [they of the created heavenly host], like Gabriel ("that stand in the presence of God" Luke 1:19)) keep the Commandments of God and hearken to His voice did not leave their "first estate" (Jude 1:6), their arch-office positions, as did those who rebelled; 'the cast-out angels' [Satan and his ilk] [Jude 1:6] and therefore the passages cannot be referring to them in the least:

Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.​

The term "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2,4 also cannot be referring to any of the "rebellious" cast-out angels [those 1/3 who rebelled with Satan/Lucifer] either, for nowhere in all of scripture, are they ever said to be able to procreate, generate; and neither are "fruitful" (Genesis 1:28, 9:1), or able to "bring forth abundantly" (Genesis 9:7), nor are able to "multiply" (Genesis 1:28, 9:1), neither have any "seed" (Genesis 1:11,12,29, 3:15, 4:25) to bring forth "fruit" (Genesis 1:11,12,29, 30:2), since angels are not made of "earthly" (2 Corinthians 5:1), that is to say, "terrestrial" (1 Corinthians 15:40) materials, but instead of "celestial" or Heavenly (not of this earth) (1 Corinthians 15:40) ones. If someone says otherwise, the burden of proof now lies with them, and they need to produce the exact and specific texts (in the mouth of two or three witnesses) that are explicit, otherwise they have lost their position before it even began, no matter how many other words come out of their mouths (which is nothing but the fallacy of "smoke screen").
 

PyongPing

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#54
Let's begin with a few points:

[1] Hebrews 2:16 (For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.), reveals that 'the angelic hosts' [the created beings of Heaven], presently do not have the same "nature"/"flesh" ("strange (hetero/foreign/differing) flesh (sarx/nature)" Jude 1:7) as humans do now (as Jesus also stated; Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25), and are not the same "kind" as human "kind", which are both "male" and "female". A "kind" on earth ("terrestrial"; 1 Corinthians 15:40), having an "earthly" (2 Corinthians 5:1) nature, can only reproduce after its "kind", for this is the Law of "flesh", the Law of Heredity (Galatians 4:4) and "seed" from the beginning:​
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.​
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.​
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​
Thus as it is written, not all "flesh" is the same "flesh", and there is also the matter of "celestial" "flesh"/"body", and another of "terrestrial" "flesh"/"body", which are differing "kinds" of being, and nature as Hebrews 2:16 stated:​
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.​
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.​
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.​
1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.​
Yes, the angelic hosts and the 'sons of God' [the ruling beings of the other created unfallen worlds; Job 1-2] have "flesh"/"bod[ies]" and are not ethereal, gaseous non-entities, but are tangible beings as you or I, but they unlike us, are "celestial[ly]" (Heavenly) made beings, whereas mankind was made of the "dust of the ground" (Genesis 2:7; see also Genesis 3:19), or "earth" (1 Corinthians 15:27), being but "dust and ashes" (Genesis 18:27).​
As a side note, some seem to think that because we cannot presently see most angels [though some have been seen and spoken with men, and some are seen even today, and some have veiled their glory and looked as an ordinary human (Hebrews 13:2, etc), as with certain instances in Scripture, to which we shall delve into in a bit] that are on earth, it means they are without substance or flesh, but this is not in the definition of invisible. Invisible is not equivalent to ethereal. I shall come to more on this later, in further Scriptural demonstration.​
 

PyongPing

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#55
[2] Nowhere is it stated in Scripture (KJB), even once, that any of 'the angelic hosts' can "be fruitful", reproduce, "bring forth abundantly" or "multiply", have "seed", bare or yield "fruit", "beget"; "increase", have "children", or even have "loins" to so much as "pisseth against the wall" with, even though it is said in multiple places for this world's earthly, "terestrial", creatures ("upon the earth", "in the earth", "therein", etc):

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.​
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.​
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.​
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.​
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.​
Gen 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.​
Gen 7:3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.​
Gen 8:17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.​
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.​
Gen 9:7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.​
Gen_9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;​
Gen 12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.​
Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.​
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.​
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.​
Gen 26:22 And he removed from thence, and digged another well; and for that they strove not: and he called the name of it Rehoboth; and he said, For now the LORD hath made room for us, and we shall be fruitful in the land.​
Gen 28:3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;​
Gen 30:2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?​
Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;​
Gen 41:52 And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.​
Gen 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.​
Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:​
 

PyongPing

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#56
Exo 1:7 And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them.​
Exo_21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.​
Lev 26:9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.​
Deu 7:13 And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.​
Deu 28:4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.​
Deu 28:11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.​
Deu 28:18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.​
Deu 28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:​
Deu 30:9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:​
Psa 21:10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.​
Psa 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.​
Psa 128:3 Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.​
Psa 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.​
Isa 13:18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.​
Isa 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.​
Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.​
Lam 2:20 Behold, O LORD, and consider to whom thou hast done this. Shall the women eat their fruit, and children of a span long? shall the priest and the prophet be slain in the sanctuary of the Lord?​
Eze 19:10 Thy mother is like a vine in thy blood, planted by the waters: she was fruitful and full of branches by reason of many waters.​
Dan 4:14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:​
Hos 9:16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.​
Mic 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?​
Hos 13:15 Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels.​
Luk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.​
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;​
Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.​
 

PyongPing

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#57
and many other such texts.

"multiply" - Genesis 1:22,28, 3:16, 6:1, 8:17, 9:1,7, 16:10, 17:2,20, 22:17, 26:24, 28:3, 35:11, 48:4; Exodus 1:10, 7:3, 23:39, 32:13; Leviticus 26:9; Deuteronomy 7:13, 8:1,13, 13:17,16,17, 28:63, 30:5,16; 1 Chronicles 4:27; Job 29:18; Jeremiah 30:19, 33:22; Ezekiel 16:7, 36:10,11,30, 37:26; Amos 4:4; 2 Corinthians 9:10; Hebrews 6:14​
"bring forth" - Genesis 1:11,20,24, 3:16,18, 8:17, 9:7; Exodus 3:10,11, 7:4, 8:3,18; Leviticus 24:14,24, 25:21, 26:10; Numbers 20:8; Deuteronomy 14:28, 17:5, 22:15; Joshua 2:3; Judges 6:18, 19:22; 2 Kings 10:22, 19:3, 23:4; Ezra 1:8; Job 14:9, 15:35, 38:32, 39:1,2,3; Psalms 37:6, 92:14, 104:14, 144:13; Proverbs 27:1; Isaiah 5:2,4, 23:4, 33:11, 37:3, 41:21, 42:1,3, 43:8,9, 45:8, 55:10, 59:4, 65:9,23, 66:8,9; Jeremiah 12:2, 51:44; Ezekiel 12:4, 17:8,23, 28:12, 31:6, 47:12; Hosea 9:13,16; Micah 4:10; Zephaniah 2:2; Zechariah 3:8, 4:7; Matthew 1:21,23, 3:8, 7:18; Mark 4:20; Luke 1:31, 3:8, 6:43,8:15, 15:22; John 15:2,16; Romans 7:4,5​
"brought forth" - Genesis 1:11,21, 14:18, 24:53, 30:39, 38:25, 40:10, 41:47; Exodus 3:12, 12:39, 19;17, 32:11; Leviticus 22:27, 25:42,55, 26:45; Numbers 17:8; Deuteronomy 9:12,26, 33:14; Joshua 10:23; Judges 5:25; Ruth 2:18; 1 Samuel 12:8; 2 Samuel 12:30,31; 1 Kings 8:16, 9:9; 2 Kings 10:26, 11:12; 2 Chronicles 1:17, 6:5, 29:23; Ezra 1:7; Job 21:30; Psalms 7:14, 90:2, 105:30,43; Proverbs 8:24,25; Isaiah 5:2, 26:18, 45:10, 51:18, 66:7,8; Jeremiah 20:3, 32:21, 38:22, 50:25, 51:10; Ezekiel 12:7, 14:22, 17:6, 38:8, 47:8; Micah 5:3; Haggai 2:19; Matthew 1:25, 13:8,26; Mark 4:8,29; Luke 1:57, 2:7, 12:16; Acts 5:15, 25:17,23; James 5:18; Revelation 12:5,13​
"fruitful" - Genesis 1:22,28, 8:17, 9:1,7, 17:6,20, 26:22, 28:3, 35:11, 41:52, 48:4, 49:22; Exodus 1:7; Leviticus 26:9; Psalms 107:34, 128:3, 148:9; Isaiah 5:1, 10:18, 17:6, 29:17, 32:12,15,16; Jeremiah 4:26, 23:3; Ezekiel 17:5, 19:10; Hosea 13:15; Acts 14:17; Colossians 1:10​
"loins" - Genesis 35:11, 37:34, 46:26; Exodus 1:5, 12:11, 28:42; Deuteronomy 33:11; 2 Samuel 20:8; 1 Kings 2:5, 8:19, 12:10, 18:46, 20:31, 20:32; 2 Kings 1:8, 4:29, 9:1; 2 Chronicles 6:9, 10:10; job 12:18, 31:20, 38:3, 40:7,16; Psalms 38:7, 66:11, 69:23; Proverbs 31:17; Isaiah 5:27, 11:5, 20:2, 21:3, 32:11, 45:1; Jeremiah 1:17, 13:1,2,4,11, 30:6, 48:37; Ezekiel 1:27, 8:2, 21:6, 23:5, 29:7, 44:18, 47:4; Daniel 5:6, 10:5; Amos 8:10; Nahum 2:1,10; Matthew 3:4; Mark 1:6; Luke 12:35; Acts 2:30; Ephesians 6:14; Hebrews 7:5,10; 1 Peter 1:13​
"beget" - Genesis 17:20; Deuteronomy 4:25, 28:41; 2 Kings 20:18; Ecclesiastes 6:3; Isaiah 39:7; Jeremiah 29:6; Ezekiel 18:10,14, 47:22​
"begetteth" - Proverbs 17:21, 23:24; Ecclesiastes 5:14​
"begotten" - Genesis 5:4; Leviticus 18:11; Numbers 11:12; Deuteronomy 23:8; Judges 8:30; Job 38:28; Psalms 2:7; Isaiah 49:21; Hosea 5:7; John 1:14,18, 3:16; Acts 13:33; 1 Corinthians 4:15; Philemon 1:10; Hebrews 1:5, 5:5, 11:17; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 4:9, 5:1,18; Revelation 1:5​
"pisseth against the wall" - 1 Samuel 25:22,34; 1 Kings 14:10, 21:21; 2 Kings 9:8​
"pisseth against a wall" - 1 Kings 16:11​
"fruit" - (184 verses, 208 matches)​
"seed" - (254 verses, 280 matches)​
"child" - (183 verses, 205 matches)​
"children" - (1524 verses, 1822 matches)​
"increase" - (87 verses, 88 matches)​

There are literally hundreds dealing with "men" (mankind) of this "earth".

There is not even one, not even a single solitary one for any of the angelic celestial hosts in like manner.

The only way to refute the statement is to produce the text in the mouth of two or three witnesses. This has never been done, and cannot be done.
 

Pumpkinspice

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#58
Sons of God are christian men mixing up with non christian worldly men it was the first time they mixed up Cain people with Abel people. Unequal yoke they were that spiritual they made giant people i guess God always was trying to divide them. This is what i believe because i believe God does not confuse some people who believe that about angels may have an apostolic root to it. It took me this long to realize. Must be even a theology or root of some kind. Sorry.
 

PennEd

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#59
On to question 3.... GIANTS!


Genesis 6
4 There were [b]GIANTS on the earth in those days, AND ALSO AFTERWARD, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.


There are many references to giants, AND NOT JUST REALLY TALL 7ft. HUMANS. I'll just talk about a few.

Amos 2:
9 “Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them,
Whose height was like the height of the cedars,
And he was as strong as the oaks;
Yet I destroyed his fruit above
And his roots beneath.

Cedar trees grow to at least 35 to 50 feet. This passage is God Himself speaking. Is God a Liar?

Here is mention of a "smaller" Giant of at least 14 or 15 Feet.

Deuteronomy 3:11 “For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the [b]giants. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. (Is it not in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit.

He would be bigger than 2 Shaquille O'neals standing on their shoulders!! Shaq is 7ft 1 inch.

Numbers 13:33 There we saw the [h]giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like[i] grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”

I'm 6ft tall. If I saw 7ft people, I wouldn't describe myself as a grasshopper in their sight. In fact, MOST humans in recorded history that have been taller than 7.5 ft have many heath problems and their height is generally regarded as a genetic defect.


So these Giants are of pure human DNA? Ridiculous!!!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#60
Matthew 24: 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

How utterly Ironic that our friend would mention the Liger and it's unnatural large size!!!!

The Liger is the result of Genetic engineering. It is NOT a natural animal. The exact same sin, genetically messing with God's creation that the angels did when they mated with human women, we are beginning to engage in. We have introduced human DNA into pigs and other animals. This is a HUGE sign that the Lord will not tarry too much longer.