When we really break down the scope of the conspiracy it is staggering. It's not like the U.S. just brushed a few crumbs under a blanket. This was deliberate and intricate. No, I do not believe they acted alone. That's the meaning of the word conspiracy. I'll use the congressman's words. "International in scope."
Conspiracy Debunker Challenge!!
- Thread starter Deadtosin
- Start date
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Yup international in scope. Can mean it done international community, or there is an institution want make international government.
when i google and type pope promote one world government, I found :
[h=2]Search Results[/h]
when i google and type pope promote one world government, I found :
About 1,620,000 results (0.36 seconds)
[h=2]Search Results[/h]
- [h=3]WHOOPS! Vatican Lets Slip Plans For One World Government[/h]www.businessinsider.com/whoops-vatican-lets-slip-plans...
Business Insider
Oct 24, 2011 - Vatican Lets Slip Plans For One World Government ... the Catholic Church and the Popes were in the business of promoting Catholicism.).
- [h=3]Is Pope Francis Laying The Groundwork For A One World ...[/h]endoftheamericandream.com/.../is-pope-francis-laying-the-groundwork-...
Apr 14, 2013 - Does Pope Francis intend to help the global elite achieve their goal of uniting ... know that even with a one world economy and a one world government, ... that you supposedly represent in order to promote a specific agenda.
- [h=3]Pope's New Encyclical Speaks Against, not for One-World ...[/h]www.prisonplanet.com/popes-new-encyclical-speaks-against-not-for-one...
Jul 14, 2009 - The Pope actually speaks directly against a one-world government, and, ... “We must,” he says “promote a dispersed political authority.
I cant speak for anyone else here, but I know that it would be good to know for sure what brought down the towers. To find out who and what was behind the engineering of that day. IF it WAS our government, what other monstrosities are they capable of?!! If it is ever revealed that the US govt WAS behind 9/11, I think pretty much every American who was once proud of this country, would defect to foreign nations and leave the USA to topple in on itself!! That's what I would do anyway. Just sayin'. jmo
It is 13 years ago, and kill 3000 people than it justified to war in aftanistan, kill thousand more people, than Iraq, kill million or more people. As a Christian should we ignore this atrocity?
I believe christian should have a bit sympathy when it see an atrocity to the weak it is the fruit of the Holy spirit to love the weak.
Instead of being addressed, they cover up this problem.
We as a christian can't do a lot, but at least help to uncover the problem, to push the authority to addressed this problem, and make sure not happen again.
I believe christian should have a bit sympathy when it see an atrocity to the weak it is the fruit of the Holy spirit to love the weak.
Instead of being addressed, they cover up this problem.
We as a christian can't do a lot, but at least help to uncover the problem, to push the authority to addressed this problem, and make sure not happen again.
Right. And due to free will, anyone can choose not to believe facts or truth; but to spread lies, half truths, and untruths as truth itself is not kosher. Some people may do this lightly; to them, it's no big deal. But the truth is that if you want to live in sin or rebellion or whatever, you have the right to do it; but when you draw others into it, then you are in serious trouble whether or not it appears so at the moment. The real problem is 'teaching' others things that lead away from truth and therefore to sin. Jesus said it:
"Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matt. 5:19).
We have a command to know the truth (and be made free by it), to promote truth, and to, like the Bereans, research a matter and test all things. People who are unwilling to follow the command to pursue truth and test all things will have only themselves to blame (and maybe lots of teeth gnashing will ensue) when they appear before the Court that biases always and only in favor of the truth.
"Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matt. 5:19).
We have a command to know the truth (and be made free by it), to promote truth, and to, like the Bereans, research a matter and test all things. People who are unwilling to follow the command to pursue truth and test all things will have only themselves to blame (and maybe lots of teeth gnashing will ensue) when they appear before the Court that biases always and only in favor of the truth.
1.Supposedly the C.I.A where watching three of them for a while, but could not give the F.B.I. their info.
2. Security back then accepted box cutters ( kind of fishy there).
3. We were not prepared for this kind of hijacking.
4.I would not put it past those people to suicide themselves, seeing they hate us and are taught this is the way to serve
their God
5.But it is weird that they had several witnesses who where going to testify, that all ended up dead.
6.The buildings supposedly had asbestos and a large insurance policy on them , and the building 7 simply fell as if it was meant to.
7.So what is the real truth, did someone pay them or what to hijack the planes, or ?
2. Security back then accepted box cutters ( kind of fishy there).
3. We were not prepared for this kind of hijacking.
4.I would not put it past those people to suicide themselves, seeing they hate us and are taught this is the way to serve
their God
5.But it is weird that they had several witnesses who where going to testify, that all ended up dead.
6.The buildings supposedly had asbestos and a large insurance policy on them , and the building 7 simply fell as if it was meant to.
7.So what is the real truth, did someone pay them or what to hijack the planes, or ?
W
The conspiracy goes even deeper than that. I think there wasn't even a hijacking, there are eyewitness reports on video at the time it happened, that say the planes who flew into the buildings were military planes without windows. One thing is for sure, there was no plane in route to the White House that allegedly went down in a field (just a hole on the ground) - no plane, no parts, no bodies. Same with the pentagon, no plane, no bodies, nicely cut hole in the building that would happen that way if a missile hit it. Footage that would prove that from security cameras were confiscated by the FBI and the truth never really released (they only released 2 seconds of it a few years later where you can see something exploding, but wasn't a plane). Also the alleged hijacked and destroyed planes' id#'s were still seen years later as some of them still flew around and then one or two of them were taken out of service per airline records.
There is so much more to all of that, it's mind boggling. It is one of the biggest government staged false flag and coverup in history.
There is so much more to all of that, it's mind boggling. It is one of the biggest government staged false flag and coverup in history.
Damombomb, 1st this thread was designed to look specifically at tower 7, what would you say made it collapse? again it is the ONLY steel structure building in all of history to fall by fire alone.
second, since we are all here, let me list some "interesting facts. Along with their sources."
First on the list is in response to your number 3. "we were not prepared for this kind of hijacking"
"Two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, an analysis prepared for U.S. intelligence warned that Osama bin Laden's terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings like the Pentagon."-CBS
Report Warned Of Suicide Hijackings - CBS News
9/11 (9:00 am) - A team from the CIA and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), who operate many of the US's spy satellites and are located about four miles from Dulles Airport where Flight 77 would take off from, had planned to begin an exercise to simulate a plane crashing into one of its buildings.
John Fulton - Intelligence Networking & Analysis "On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team at the CIA were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way that day." - National Law Enforcement and Security Institute
Federal agency planned plane-crashing-into-building drill ... last Sept. 11 - USA Today (08/22/02)
• 9/11 - Before the Pentagon was hit, Pentagon medic Matt Rosenberg was studying a new MASCAL emergency disaster plan which is based on the unlikely scenario of an airplane crashing into the Pentagon.
"Matt Rosenberg was down on Corridor 8, a medic at the health clinic in the massive military headquarters, grateful for an uninterrupted hour in which he could study a new medical emergency disaster plan based on the unlikely scenario of an airplane crashing into the place." - Washington Post (09/16/01)
• 9/11 (6:47 am) - The WTC 7's fire alarm system is placed on "TEST" mode for an eight hour period for "maintenance or other testing" in which any alarms that are received from the system are not shown on the operator’s display and are considered the result of the maintenance or testing and are ignored. (NIST)
Moving on to an interesting discrepancy...
• 9/11 (8:46 am) - WTC janitor William Rodriguez was working in the basement area of the North Tower when he hears a large explosion from the floors below him seconds before the first plane crashes into the top of the building, rescues a fellow worker who is severely burnt from the blast below, and also hears various explosions from the 20th trough the 30th floors included the 34th floor which was completely empty due to a "construction project". CNN (09/12/01)
Coincidence?
• 9/11 - Larry Silverstein is absent from his office on the 88th floor of the North Tower because of a "doctors appointment" and his two kids, Roger and Lisa, are also absent from the office because they were "running late." New York Magazine (04/18/05)
9/11 (8:57 am) - Flight 77's radar stops near the Ohio/Kentucky border and is the only one of the four hijacked planes that wasn't able to be tracked via radar the whole way.Washington Post (9/12/01)
September 10, 2001 - Gen. Winfield asks rookie Capt. Leidig to take temporary command of the National Military Command Center at Pentagon for Sept. 11.
9/11 Commission (07/17/04)
This next part is upsetting. "Do the orders still stand?"
• 9/11 - As an airplane approaches Washington D.C. area, a young man enters the Presidential Emergency Operating Center (PEOC) where Vice President Cheney and Transportation Sect. Norman Mineta are at and tells Cheney, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out. The plane is 10 miles out," and then asks him "Do the orders still stand?" in which Cheney turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" PANEL 1: SEPTEMBER 11, 2001: THE ATTACKS AND THE RESPONSE; WITNESSES: SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION NORMAN MINETA
"MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --
MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --
MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.
MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah." - 9/11 Commission (05/23/03) [Video]
• 9/11 (8:44 am) - Donald Rumsfeld is in his office at the Pentagon talking about missile defense and the risk of terrorism and predicts there will be a terrorist attack two minutes before the first plane crashes into the WTC. "Inside, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld had some people in to talk about missile defense and the risk that terrorism seen in the past would happen again.
“Let me tell ya,” he said, “I’ve been around the block a few times. There will be another event.”
Two minutes later, a plane smashed into the first World Trade Center tower and proved him right." - Fayetteville Observer/AP (09/16/01)
• 9/11 (9:35 am?) - For the second time of the day, Donald Rumsfeld predicts another terrorist attack right before it happens and correctly predicts it will happen to the Pentagon.
• 9/11 (9:38am) - A squadron of NORAD fighter planes from Langley AFB were sent east over the Atlantic Ocean and were 150 miles from the Pentagon when it was hit, further from where they took off.
"WE HAVE SOME PLANES"
"At 9:36, the FAA's Boston Center called NEADS and relayed the discovery about an unidentified aircraft closing in on Washington: "Latest report. Aircraft VFR [visual flight rules] six miles southeast of the White House. . . . Six, southwest. Six, southwest of the White House, deviating away." This startling news prompted the mission crew commander at NEADS to take immediate control of the airspace to clear a flight path for the Langley fighters: "Okay, we're going to turn it . . . crank it up. . . . Run them to the White House." He then discovered, to his surprise, that the Langley fighters were not headed north toward the Baltimore area as instructed, but east over the ocean. "I don't care how many windows you break," he said. "Damn it.. . . Okay. Push them back."152
The Langley fighters were heading east, not north, for three reasons. First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target's location. Second, a "generic" flight plan-prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly-incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles. Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go "090 for 60" superseded the original scramble order.153
After the 9:36 call to NEADS about the unidentified aircraft a few miles from the White House, the Langley fighters were ordered to Washington, D.C. Controllers at NEADS located an unknown primary radar track, but "it kind of faded" over Washington. The time was 9:38.The Pentagon had been struck by American 77 at 9:37:46.The Langley fighters were about 150 miles away.154" - 9-11commission.gov [local]
• 9/11 (9:40am ?) - A simulated aircraft hijacking was scheduled by NORAD.
9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes
"As Major Kevin Nasypany, the facility's mission-crew commander, drove up the hill to work on the morning of 9/11, he was dressed in his flight suit and prepared for battle. Not a real one. The Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS), where Nasypany had been stationed since 1994, is the regional headquarters for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the Cold War–era military organization charged with protecting North American airspace. As he poured his first coffee on that sunny September morning, the odds that he would have to defend against Russian "Bear Bombers," one of NORAD's traditional simulated missions, were slim. Rather, Nasypany (pronounced Nah-sip-a-nee), an amiable commander with a thick mini-mustache and a hockey player's build, was headed in early to get ready for the NORAD-wide training exercise he'd helped design. The battle commander, Colonel Bob Marr, had promised to bring in fritters.
For the NEADS crew, 9/11 was not a story of four hijacked airplanes, but one of a heated chase after more than a dozen potential hijackings—some real, some phantom—that emerged from the turbulence of misinformation that spiked in the first 100 minutes of the attack and continued well into the afternoon and evening.
08:37:52
BOSTON CENTER: Hi. Boston Center T.M.U. [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
POWELL: Is this real-world or exercise?
BOSTON CENTER: No, this is not an exercise, not a test.
Powell's question—"Is this real-world or exercise?"—is heard nearly verbatim over and over on the tapes as troops funnel onto the ops floor and are briefed about the hijacking. Powell, like almost everyone in the room, first assumes the phone call is from the simulations team on hand to send "inputs"—simulated scenarios—into play for the day's training exercise.
8:37:56
WATSON: What?
DOOLEY: Whoa!
WATSON: What was that?
ROUNTREE: Is that real-world?
DOOLEY: Real-world hijack.
WATSON: Cool!
"When they told me there was a hijack, my first reaction was 'Somebody started the exercise early,'" Nasypany later told me. The day's exercise was designed to run a range of scenarios, including a "traditional" simulated hijack in which politically motivated perpetrators commandeer an aircraft, land on a Cuba-like island, and seek asylum. "I actually said out loud, 'The hijack's not supposed to be for another hour,'" Nasypany recalled. (The fact that there was an exercise planned for the same day as the attack factors into several conspiracy theories, though the 9/11 commission dismisses this as coincidence. After plodding through dozens of hours of recordings, so do I.)
09:04:50
—Is this explosion part of that that we're lookin' at now on TV?
—Yes.
—Jesus …
—And there's a possible second hijack also
—a United Airlines …
—Two planes?…
—Get the f*ck out …
—I think this is a damn input, to be honest.
The last line—"I think this is a damn input"—is a reference to the exercise, meaning a simulations input. It's either gallows humor or wishful thinking. From the tape, it's hard to tell." - Vanity Fair (08/01/06)
second, since we are all here, let me list some "interesting facts. Along with their sources."
First on the list is in response to your number 3. "we were not prepared for this kind of hijacking"
"Two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, an analysis prepared for U.S. intelligence warned that Osama bin Laden's terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings like the Pentagon."-CBS
Report Warned Of Suicide Hijackings - CBS News
9/11 (9:00 am) - A team from the CIA and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), who operate many of the US's spy satellites and are located about four miles from Dulles Airport where Flight 77 would take off from, had planned to begin an exercise to simulate a plane crashing into one of its buildings.
John Fulton - Intelligence Networking & Analysis "On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team at the CIA were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way that day." - National Law Enforcement and Security Institute
Federal agency planned plane-crashing-into-building drill ... last Sept. 11 - USA Today (08/22/02)
• 9/11 - Before the Pentagon was hit, Pentagon medic Matt Rosenberg was studying a new MASCAL emergency disaster plan which is based on the unlikely scenario of an airplane crashing into the Pentagon.
"Matt Rosenberg was down on Corridor 8, a medic at the health clinic in the massive military headquarters, grateful for an uninterrupted hour in which he could study a new medical emergency disaster plan based on the unlikely scenario of an airplane crashing into the place." - Washington Post (09/16/01)
• 9/11 (6:47 am) - The WTC 7's fire alarm system is placed on "TEST" mode for an eight hour period for "maintenance or other testing" in which any alarms that are received from the system are not shown on the operator’s display and are considered the result of the maintenance or testing and are ignored. (NIST)
Moving on to an interesting discrepancy...
• 9/11 (8:46 am) - WTC janitor William Rodriguez was working in the basement area of the North Tower when he hears a large explosion from the floors below him seconds before the first plane crashes into the top of the building, rescues a fellow worker who is severely burnt from the blast below, and also hears various explosions from the 20th trough the 30th floors included the 34th floor which was completely empty due to a "construction project". CNN (09/12/01)
Coincidence?
• 9/11 - Larry Silverstein is absent from his office on the 88th floor of the North Tower because of a "doctors appointment" and his two kids, Roger and Lisa, are also absent from the office because they were "running late." New York Magazine (04/18/05)
9/11 (8:57 am) - Flight 77's radar stops near the Ohio/Kentucky border and is the only one of the four hijacked planes that wasn't able to be tracked via radar the whole way.Washington Post (9/12/01)
September 10, 2001 - Gen. Winfield asks rookie Capt. Leidig to take temporary command of the National Military Command Center at Pentagon for Sept. 11.
9/11 Commission (07/17/04)
This next part is upsetting. "Do the orders still stand?"
• 9/11 - As an airplane approaches Washington D.C. area, a young man enters the Presidential Emergency Operating Center (PEOC) where Vice President Cheney and Transportation Sect. Norman Mineta are at and tells Cheney, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out. The plane is 10 miles out," and then asks him "Do the orders still stand?" in which Cheney turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" PANEL 1: SEPTEMBER 11, 2001: THE ATTACKS AND THE RESPONSE; WITNESSES: SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION NORMAN MINETA
"MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --
MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --
MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.
MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah." - 9/11 Commission (05/23/03) [Video]
• 9/11 (8:44 am) - Donald Rumsfeld is in his office at the Pentagon talking about missile defense and the risk of terrorism and predicts there will be a terrorist attack two minutes before the first plane crashes into the WTC. "Inside, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld had some people in to talk about missile defense and the risk that terrorism seen in the past would happen again.
“Let me tell ya,” he said, “I’ve been around the block a few times. There will be another event.”
Two minutes later, a plane smashed into the first World Trade Center tower and proved him right." - Fayetteville Observer/AP (09/16/01)
• 9/11 (9:35 am?) - For the second time of the day, Donald Rumsfeld predicts another terrorist attack right before it happens and correctly predicts it will happen to the Pentagon.
• 9/11 (9:38am) - A squadron of NORAD fighter planes from Langley AFB were sent east over the Atlantic Ocean and were 150 miles from the Pentagon when it was hit, further from where they took off.
"WE HAVE SOME PLANES"
"At 9:36, the FAA's Boston Center called NEADS and relayed the discovery about an unidentified aircraft closing in on Washington: "Latest report. Aircraft VFR [visual flight rules] six miles southeast of the White House. . . . Six, southwest. Six, southwest of the White House, deviating away." This startling news prompted the mission crew commander at NEADS to take immediate control of the airspace to clear a flight path for the Langley fighters: "Okay, we're going to turn it . . . crank it up. . . . Run them to the White House." He then discovered, to his surprise, that the Langley fighters were not headed north toward the Baltimore area as instructed, but east over the ocean. "I don't care how many windows you break," he said. "Damn it.. . . Okay. Push them back."152
The Langley fighters were heading east, not north, for three reasons. First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target's location. Second, a "generic" flight plan-prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly-incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles. Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go "090 for 60" superseded the original scramble order.153
After the 9:36 call to NEADS about the unidentified aircraft a few miles from the White House, the Langley fighters were ordered to Washington, D.C. Controllers at NEADS located an unknown primary radar track, but "it kind of faded" over Washington. The time was 9:38.The Pentagon had been struck by American 77 at 9:37:46.The Langley fighters were about 150 miles away.154" - 9-11commission.gov [local]
• 9/11 (9:40am ?) - A simulated aircraft hijacking was scheduled by NORAD.
9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes
"As Major Kevin Nasypany, the facility's mission-crew commander, drove up the hill to work on the morning of 9/11, he was dressed in his flight suit and prepared for battle. Not a real one. The Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS), where Nasypany had been stationed since 1994, is the regional headquarters for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), the Cold War–era military organization charged with protecting North American airspace. As he poured his first coffee on that sunny September morning, the odds that he would have to defend against Russian "Bear Bombers," one of NORAD's traditional simulated missions, were slim. Rather, Nasypany (pronounced Nah-sip-a-nee), an amiable commander with a thick mini-mustache and a hockey player's build, was headed in early to get ready for the NORAD-wide training exercise he'd helped design. The battle commander, Colonel Bob Marr, had promised to bring in fritters.
For the NEADS crew, 9/11 was not a story of four hijacked airplanes, but one of a heated chase after more than a dozen potential hijackings—some real, some phantom—that emerged from the turbulence of misinformation that spiked in the first 100 minutes of the attack and continued well into the afternoon and evening.
08:37:52
BOSTON CENTER: Hi. Boston Center T.M.U. [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
POWELL: Is this real-world or exercise?
BOSTON CENTER: No, this is not an exercise, not a test.
Powell's question—"Is this real-world or exercise?"—is heard nearly verbatim over and over on the tapes as troops funnel onto the ops floor and are briefed about the hijacking. Powell, like almost everyone in the room, first assumes the phone call is from the simulations team on hand to send "inputs"—simulated scenarios—into play for the day's training exercise.
8:37:56
WATSON: What?
DOOLEY: Whoa!
WATSON: What was that?
ROUNTREE: Is that real-world?
DOOLEY: Real-world hijack.
WATSON: Cool!
"When they told me there was a hijack, my first reaction was 'Somebody started the exercise early,'" Nasypany later told me. The day's exercise was designed to run a range of scenarios, including a "traditional" simulated hijack in which politically motivated perpetrators commandeer an aircraft, land on a Cuba-like island, and seek asylum. "I actually said out loud, 'The hijack's not supposed to be for another hour,'" Nasypany recalled. (The fact that there was an exercise planned for the same day as the attack factors into several conspiracy theories, though the 9/11 commission dismisses this as coincidence. After plodding through dozens of hours of recordings, so do I.)
09:04:50
—Is this explosion part of that that we're lookin' at now on TV?
—Yes.
—Jesus …
—And there's a possible second hijack also
—a United Airlines …
—Two planes?…
—Get the f*ck out …
—I think this is a damn input, to be honest.
The last line—"I think this is a damn input"—is a reference to the exercise, meaning a simulations input. It's either gallows humor or wishful thinking. From the tape, it's hard to tell." - Vanity Fair (08/01/06)
• 9/11 - Witnesses at the Pentagon report that the aircraft that crashed into the Pentagon sounded and/or behaved like a missile.
► Richard Benedetto, USA TODAY reporter
"...saw the plane slam into the Pentagon. "It sounded like an artillery shell. It hit on the west side of the building, near the helipad." - USA Today, 'I fear for my daughter' (09/11/01)
► Michael DiPaula, 41, project coordinator Pentagon Renovation Team
"Suddenly, an airplane roared into view, nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring. 'It sounded like a missile,' DiPaula recalls." - Baltimore Sun
► Lon Rains, Editor at Space News
"With the Pentagon to the left of my van at about 10 o’clock on the dial of a clock, I glanced at my watch to see if I was going to be late for my appointment.
At that moment I heard a very loud, quick whooshing sound that began behind me and stopped suddenly in front of me and to my left. In fractions of a second I heard the impact and an explosion. The next thing I saw was the fireball.
I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane. Friends and colleagues have asked me if I felt a shock wave and I honestly do not know." - Space News, Eyewitness: The Pentagon (06/30/05)
► Tom Seibert, 33, Pentagon network engineer
""We heard what sounded like a missile, then we heard a loud boom," said Tom Seibert, 33, a network engineer at the Pentagon. "We were sitting there and watching this thing from New York, and I said, you know, the next best target would be us. And five minutes later, boom."" - Guardian, 'Everyone was screaming, crying, running. It's like a war zone' (09/12/01)
• 9/11 - Witnesses at the Pentagon report the smell of cordite, a smokeless explosive powder.
► Gilah Goldsmith, personnel attorney at the Pentagon
"We saw a huge black cloud of smoke," she said, saying it smelled like cordite, or gun smoke." - Jewish News Weekly (09/21/01)
► Don Perkal, deputy General Counsel, Office of the Secretary of Defense
"The airliner crashed between two and three hundred feet from my office in the Pentagon, just around a corner from where I work. I'm the deputy General Counsel, Washington Headquarters Services, Office of the Secretary of Defense. A slightly different calibration and I have no doubt I wouldn't be sending this to you. My colleagues felt the impact, which reminded them of an earthquake. People shouted in the corridor outside that a bomb had gone off upstairs on the main concourse in the building. No alarms sounded. I walked to my office, shut down my computer, and headed out. Even before stepping outside I could smell the cordite. Then I knew explosives had been set off somewhere.
Two explosions, a few minutes apart, prompted me to start walking." - McSweeney's Internet Tendency: The Works of Humankind (09/19/01)
- cordite - A smokeless explosive powder consisting of nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin, and petrolatum that has been dissolved in acetone, dried, and extruded in cords.
- Cordite is a smokeless propellant explosive made by combining two explosives: nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. It has commonly been used in firearms since the early 20th Century. It has also been used in solid fuel rockets.
• 9/11 - CNN correspondent Jamie McIntyre reporting live from the Pentagon says that there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the building.
► Jamie Mcintryre, CNN correspondent
"From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.
The only site, is the actual side of the building that's crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.
Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn't happen immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed." - CNN (09/11/01) [Video archived at: Prison Planet; The Web Fairy]
[HR][/HR]
• 9/11 - Air Force Gen. Richard Myers (who was about to become chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) claims he was never informed of the second WTC plane crash and only became aware of it at about the time the Pentagon was hit.
"Meanwhile, the second World Trade Center tower was hit by another jet. "Nobody informed us of that," Myers said. "But when we came out, that was obvious. Then, right at that time, somebody said the Pentagon had been hit." - DefenseLINK (10/23/01)
9/11 - Andrews Air Force Base, home to the D.C. Air National Guard and Air Force One, is only 15 miles away from the Pentagon, but supposedly had no jetfighters on alert and couldn't manage to scramble any of it's fighters units (121st Fighter Squadron, Naval Air Facility, and Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 321) in the air until after the Pentagon was hit.
9/11 - Within minutes of the explosion at the Pentagon, the FBI confiscates security videos that had captured the crash from a nearby gas station and hotel. "Velasquez says the gas station's security cameras are close enough to the Pentagon to have recorded the moment of impact. "I've never seen what the pictures looked like," he said. "The FBI was here within minutes and took the film." - National Geographic (12/11/01)
Flight 93 crash site photographer see's no plane
Chris Konicki, photographer FOX News reporter: It looks like there's nothing there, except for a hole in the ground.
Photographer Chris Konicki: Ah, basically that's right. The only thing you can see from where we where, ah, was a big gouge in the earth and some broken trees. We could see some people working, walking around in the area, but from where we could see it, there wasn't much left.
Reporter: Any large pieces of debris at all?
Konicki: Na, there was nothing, nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there.
Reporter: Smoke? Fire?
Konicki: Nothing. It was absolutely quite. It was, uh, actually very quiet. Um, nothing going on down there. No smoke. No fire. Just a couple of people walking around. They looked like part of the NTSB crew walking around, looking at the pieces..." - FOX (09/11/01)
But I digress... What dropped tower 7?
► Richard Benedetto, USA TODAY reporter
"...saw the plane slam into the Pentagon. "It sounded like an artillery shell. It hit on the west side of the building, near the helipad." - USA Today, 'I fear for my daughter' (09/11/01)
► Michael DiPaula, 41, project coordinator Pentagon Renovation Team
"Suddenly, an airplane roared into view, nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring. 'It sounded like a missile,' DiPaula recalls." - Baltimore Sun
► Lon Rains, Editor at Space News
"With the Pentagon to the left of my van at about 10 o’clock on the dial of a clock, I glanced at my watch to see if I was going to be late for my appointment.
At that moment I heard a very loud, quick whooshing sound that began behind me and stopped suddenly in front of me and to my left. In fractions of a second I heard the impact and an explosion. The next thing I saw was the fireball.
I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane. Friends and colleagues have asked me if I felt a shock wave and I honestly do not know." - Space News, Eyewitness: The Pentagon (06/30/05)
► Tom Seibert, 33, Pentagon network engineer
""We heard what sounded like a missile, then we heard a loud boom," said Tom Seibert, 33, a network engineer at the Pentagon. "We were sitting there and watching this thing from New York, and I said, you know, the next best target would be us. And five minutes later, boom."" - Guardian, 'Everyone was screaming, crying, running. It's like a war zone' (09/12/01)
• 9/11 - Witnesses at the Pentagon report the smell of cordite, a smokeless explosive powder.
► Gilah Goldsmith, personnel attorney at the Pentagon
"We saw a huge black cloud of smoke," she said, saying it smelled like cordite, or gun smoke." - Jewish News Weekly (09/21/01)
► Don Perkal, deputy General Counsel, Office of the Secretary of Defense
"The airliner crashed between two and three hundred feet from my office in the Pentagon, just around a corner from where I work. I'm the deputy General Counsel, Washington Headquarters Services, Office of the Secretary of Defense. A slightly different calibration and I have no doubt I wouldn't be sending this to you. My colleagues felt the impact, which reminded them of an earthquake. People shouted in the corridor outside that a bomb had gone off upstairs on the main concourse in the building. No alarms sounded. I walked to my office, shut down my computer, and headed out. Even before stepping outside I could smell the cordite. Then I knew explosives had been set off somewhere.
Two explosions, a few minutes apart, prompted me to start walking." - McSweeney's Internet Tendency: The Works of Humankind (09/19/01)
- cordite - A smokeless explosive powder consisting of nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin, and petrolatum that has been dissolved in acetone, dried, and extruded in cords.
- Cordite is a smokeless propellant explosive made by combining two explosives: nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. It has commonly been used in firearms since the early 20th Century. It has also been used in solid fuel rockets.
• 9/11 - CNN correspondent Jamie McIntyre reporting live from the Pentagon says that there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the building.
► Jamie Mcintryre, CNN correspondent
"From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.
The only site, is the actual side of the building that's crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.
Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn't happen immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed." - CNN (09/11/01) [Video archived at: Prison Planet; The Web Fairy]
[HR][/HR]
"Meanwhile, the second World Trade Center tower was hit by another jet. "Nobody informed us of that," Myers said. "But when we came out, that was obvious. Then, right at that time, somebody said the Pentagon had been hit." - DefenseLINK (10/23/01)
9/11 - Andrews Air Force Base, home to the D.C. Air National Guard and Air Force One, is only 15 miles away from the Pentagon, but supposedly had no jetfighters on alert and couldn't manage to scramble any of it's fighters units (121st Fighter Squadron, Naval Air Facility, and Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 321) in the air until after the Pentagon was hit.
9/11 - Within minutes of the explosion at the Pentagon, the FBI confiscates security videos that had captured the crash from a nearby gas station and hotel. "Velasquez says the gas station's security cameras are close enough to the Pentagon to have recorded the moment of impact. "I've never seen what the pictures looked like," he said. "The FBI was here within minutes and took the film." - National Geographic (12/11/01)
Flight 93 crash site photographer see's no plane
Chris Konicki, photographer FOX News reporter: It looks like there's nothing there, except for a hole in the ground.
Photographer Chris Konicki: Ah, basically that's right. The only thing you can see from where we where, ah, was a big gouge in the earth and some broken trees. We could see some people working, walking around in the area, but from where we could see it, there wasn't much left.
Reporter: Any large pieces of debris at all?
Konicki: Na, there was nothing, nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there.
Reporter: Smoke? Fire?
Konicki: Nothing. It was absolutely quite. It was, uh, actually very quiet. Um, nothing going on down there. No smoke. No fire. Just a couple of people walking around. They looked like part of the NTSB crew walking around, looking at the pieces..." - FOX (09/11/01)
But I digress... What dropped tower 7?
R
this is actually an incorrect assertion...
and there we have the primary problem with the 9/11 conspiracy theories...and practically every other conspiracy theory for that matter...it is all based on misinformation...people knowingly or unknowingly making false statements...and then lots of people not bothering to 'fact check' anything...
honestly until the conspiracy theorists are willing to make an honest attempt at fact checking...there is no point in responding further to threads like this one...because conspiracy theorists simply don't care about the truth...
and there we have the primary problem with the 9/11 conspiracy theories...and practically every other conspiracy theory for that matter...it is all based on misinformation...people knowingly or unknowingly making false statements...and then lots of people not bothering to 'fact check' anything...
honestly until the conspiracy theorists are willing to make an honest attempt at fact checking...there is no point in responding further to threads like this one...because conspiracy theorists simply don't care about the truth...
Last edited:
[h=1]Other Skyscraper Fires[/h] [h=2]Fires Have Never Caused Skyscrapers to Collapse[/h] [TABLE="class: figure_right, align: right"]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] The One Meridian Plaza fire [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Excepting the three 9-11 collapses, no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse. Following are examples of high-rise fires that were far more severe than those in WTC 1 and 2, and Building 7. In these precedents, the fires consumed multiple floors, produced extensive window breakage, exhibited large areas of emergent flames, and went on for several hours. The fires in the WTC towers did none of these things.
The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. [SUP] 4 [/SUP] Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed.
[TABLE="class: figure_right, align: right"]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] The First Interstate Bank fire [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:
In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans. [SUP] 6 [/SUP]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] Close-up of the First Interstate Bank fire
Photo: New York Board of Underwriters [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1 New York Plaza is a 50-story office tower less than a mile from the World Trade Center site. It suffered a severe fire and explosion on August 5, 1970. The fire started around 6 PM, and burned for more than 6 hours. [SUP] 7 [/SUP]
Lax enforcement of fire codes in Venezuela was blamed for the malfunctioning of water pumps and a lack of fire extinguishers inside of the building. Because the building was empty when the fire broke out, no civilians were killed or injured. [SUP] 8 [/SUP]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] The Windsor Building fire [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
A more recent case of a severe high-rise fire is the one that destroyed the Windsor Building in Madrid, Spain on February 12, 2005. The Windsor fire was more severe than any of the fires described above, and the incident has been widely publicized, with comparisons to the fires in the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11/01. However, the Windsor Building, unlike all the buildings mentioned above, was framed in steel-reinforced concrete rather than steel. Hence it is described on a separate page, which notes differences between the response of these different types of structures to fires. [SUP] 9 [/SUP]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] The Hotel Mandarin Oriental blazes [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The most recent example of a spectacular skyscraper fire was the burning of the Hotel Mandarin Oriental starting on February 9, 2009. The nearly completed 520-foot-tall skyscraper in Beijing caught fire around 8:00 pm, was engulfed within 20 minutes, and burned for at least 3 hours until midnight. Despite the fact that the fire extended across all of the floors for a period of time and burned out of control for hours, no large portion of the structure collapsed.
It is tempting to draw parallels between this spectacle and the destruction of WTC 1, 2, and 7 because of the stark opposites: on 9/11/01, three skyscrapers were transformed into piles of rubble primarily as a consequence, supposedly, of fires -- fires spanning small fractions of each building; and on 2/09/09, a skyscraper remained intact after burning like a torch for hours. However such parallels may be limited by major structural differences between the buildings in the two cases -- one being that the Hotel Mandarin Oriental, designed by the famous Dutch architect Rem Koolhaas, had a full-height interior atrium, and thus had the hollowness that the 9-11 Commission deceptively attempted to attribute to the Twin Towers. [SUP] 10 [/SUP]
Perhaps the relevance of the Mandarin fire to the events of 9/11/2001 is more symbolic than forensic. The Mandarin fire is examined more fully here.
[HR][/HR]References
[SIZE=-1] 1. ONE MERIDIAN PLAZA, Philadelphia Fire Films, 1991, [cached]
2. High-rise Office Building Fire One Meridian Plaza, [cached]
3. One Meridien Plaza, [cached]
4. High-rise Office Building Fire One Meridian Plaza Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, [cached]
5. First Interstate Bank Fire, lafire.com, [cached]
6. Interstate Bank Building Fire Los Angeles, California (May 4, 1988), [cached]
7. U.S. Report on Trade Center Echoes Lessons of Past Disasters, New York Times, 4/2/02 [cached]
8. Towering Inferno In Caracas, CBSNEWS.com, 10/18/04 [cached]
9. U.S. Report on Trade Center ..., New York Times, 4/2/02
10. Fire claims building at CCTV Beijing headquarters, reuters.com,
so find me one.
[/SIZE]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] The One Meridian Plaza fire [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Excepting the three 9-11 collapses, no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse. Following are examples of high-rise fires that were far more severe than those in WTC 1 and 2, and Building 7. In these precedents, the fires consumed multiple floors, produced extensive window breakage, exhibited large areas of emergent flames, and went on for several hours. The fires in the WTC towers did none of these things.
LINK
[h=3]The One Meridian Plaza Fire[/h] One Meridian Plaza is a 38-floor skyscraper in Philadelphia that suffered a severe fire on February 23, 1991. The fire started on the 22nd floor and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors and causing an estimated $100 million in direct property loss. [SUP] 1 [/SUP] [SUP] 2 [/SUP] [SUP] 3 [/SUP] It was later described by Philadelphia officials as "the most significant fire in this century". The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. [SUP] 4 [/SUP] Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed.
[TABLE="class: figure_right, align: right"]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] The First Interstate Bank fire [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
LINK
[h=3]The First Interstate Bank Fire[/h] The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss. [SUP] 5 [/SUP] A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:
In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans. [SUP] 6 [/SUP]
LINK
[h=3]The 1 New York Plaza Fire[/h] [TABLE="class: figure_right, align: right"][TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] Close-up of the First Interstate Bank fire
Photo: New York Board of Underwriters [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1 New York Plaza is a 50-story office tower less than a mile from the World Trade Center site. It suffered a severe fire and explosion on August 5, 1970. The fire started around 6 PM, and burned for more than 6 hours. [SUP] 7 [/SUP]
LINK
[h=3]Caracas Tower Fire[/h] The tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a severe fire on October 17, 2004. The blaze began before midnight on the 34th floor, spread to more than 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters. Lax enforcement of fire codes in Venezuela was blamed for the malfunctioning of water pumps and a lack of fire extinguishers inside of the building. Because the building was empty when the fire broke out, no civilians were killed or injured. [SUP] 8 [/SUP]
LINK
[h=3]The Windsor Building Fire[/h] [TABLE="class: figure_right, align: right"][TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] The Windsor Building fire [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
A more recent case of a severe high-rise fire is the one that destroyed the Windsor Building in Madrid, Spain on February 12, 2005. The Windsor fire was more severe than any of the fires described above, and the incident has been widely publicized, with comparisons to the fires in the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11/01. However, the Windsor Building, unlike all the buildings mentioned above, was framed in steel-reinforced concrete rather than steel. Hence it is described on a separate page, which notes differences between the response of these different types of structures to fires. [SUP] 9 [/SUP]
LINK
[h=3]The Beijing Mandarin Oriental Hotel Fire[/h] [TABLE="class: figure_right, align: right"][TR]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1] The Hotel Mandarin Oriental blazes [/SIZE] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The most recent example of a spectacular skyscraper fire was the burning of the Hotel Mandarin Oriental starting on February 9, 2009. The nearly completed 520-foot-tall skyscraper in Beijing caught fire around 8:00 pm, was engulfed within 20 minutes, and burned for at least 3 hours until midnight. Despite the fact that the fire extended across all of the floors for a period of time and burned out of control for hours, no large portion of the structure collapsed.
It is tempting to draw parallels between this spectacle and the destruction of WTC 1, 2, and 7 because of the stark opposites: on 9/11/01, three skyscrapers were transformed into piles of rubble primarily as a consequence, supposedly, of fires -- fires spanning small fractions of each building; and on 2/09/09, a skyscraper remained intact after burning like a torch for hours. However such parallels may be limited by major structural differences between the buildings in the two cases -- one being that the Hotel Mandarin Oriental, designed by the famous Dutch architect Rem Koolhaas, had a full-height interior atrium, and thus had the hollowness that the 9-11 Commission deceptively attempted to attribute to the Twin Towers. [SUP] 10 [/SUP]
Perhaps the relevance of the Mandarin fire to the events of 9/11/2001 is more symbolic than forensic. The Mandarin fire is examined more fully here.
[HR][/HR]References
[SIZE=-1] 1. ONE MERIDIAN PLAZA, Philadelphia Fire Films, 1991, [cached]
2. High-rise Office Building Fire One Meridian Plaza, [cached]
3. One Meridien Plaza, [cached]
4. High-rise Office Building Fire One Meridian Plaza Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, [cached]
5. First Interstate Bank Fire, lafire.com, [cached]
6. Interstate Bank Building Fire Los Angeles, California (May 4, 1988), [cached]
7. U.S. Report on Trade Center Echoes Lessons of Past Disasters, New York Times, 4/2/02 [cached]
8. Towering Inferno In Caracas, CBSNEWS.com, 10/18/04 [cached]
9. U.S. Report on Trade Center ..., New York Times, 4/2/02
10. Fire claims building at CCTV Beijing headquarters, reuters.com,
so find me one.
[/SIZE]
Photo can be found at the bottom of this page in a PDF.. IT still stood
Fire & Rescue - Misc. Photo's
Fire & Rescue - Misc. Photo's