If the Rapture is true, just who are the saints beheaded by the Antichrist?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
906
490
63
#1
I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
10,337
3,310
113
#2
I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
the word Rapture is not in the Bible just like the word Trinity is not. The concepts are.

Once the church is removed God will pour out His Judgement on the earth as HE has never before. The Devil aka Satan will be running the world system yet there will be those who will not serve him and choose death. These are the saints who you are speaking of and Rev 20:4

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#3
I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
Every person from Adam to now has died. - it is appointed unto man once to die. The "rapture" verses describe the process of a believer being translated into their new bodies just prior to the death of this earthly body. Stephen is the best biblical example of the rapture.
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
8,677
6,491
113
#4
I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
I thought that it was the people who become born again during the tribulation and don't take the mark of the beast. That's why they are beheaded. The church have been removed by rapture and aren't here.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
10,337
3,310
113
#6
Every person from Adam to now has died. - it is appointed unto man once to die. The "rapture" verses describe the process of a believer being translated into their new bodies just prior to the death of this earthly body. Stephen is the best biblical example of the rapture.
what about Enoch?
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#7
Every person from Adam to now has died. - it is appointed unto man once to die. The "rapture" verses describe the process of a believer being translated into their new bodies just prior to the death of this earthly body. Stephen is the best biblical example of the rapture.
It is sad that your friend could not show you where it was in the bible. Here it is:
1 Cor 15
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And also:
1 Thess 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

As you can clearly read there is going to be a time in the future when there will be a particular generation of believers who will not die but while alive will be changed to a glorified immortal state equal to that of those who are resurrected from the dead.

This is called the rapture because it is the English word of a Latin word from the Greek word that was translated "caught up" in the text above. So if you or any of your friends are offended by the word "rapture" Then just read both of these passages without taking a breath, and then they will finally understand why a using a single word is so much more convenient. LOL :) Of course reading both passages is important to educate those who are unaware of this topic, but once both passages are read and understood, it then becomes convient to refer to this EVENT as the rapture, providing your audience knows what passage we are referring to.

Now that this EVENT explained in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 will occur is not up for debate. Therefore one should not say they do not believe in the rapture. That is like saying they do not believe that Paul was telling the truth. It is usually the timing of the rapture that is in question. Some believe that the rapture will occur before the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God is poured out as described beginning about Rev 6 forward. Some believe that the rapture occurs in the middle of the tribulation and some believe that the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation but most evangelicals believe in the event occurring at some point when the Lord Returns and there will be a people alive at that time who WILL NOT SEE DEATH. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and be given the same kind of immortal bodies as those who did die and are resurrected. This EVENT WILL OCCUR. It is the blessed hope of the saints and should be preached and used to comfort one another as we wait for his appearing which will mean the glorification of our bodies and our gathering to be with Him.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#8
It is sad that your friend could not show you where it was in the bible. Here it is:
1 Cor 15
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And also:
1 Thess 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

As you can clearly read there is going to be a time in the future when there will be a particular generation of believers who will not die but while alive will be changed to a glorified immortal state equal to that of those who are resurrected from the dead.

This is called the rapture because it is the English word of a Latin word from the Greek word that was translated "caught up" in the text above. So if you or any of your friends are offended by the word "rapture" Then just read both of these passages without taking a breath, and then they will finally understand why a using a single word is so much more convenient. LOL :) Of course reading both passages is important to educate those who are unaware of this topic, but once both passages are read and understood, it then becomes convient to refer to this EVENT as the rapture, providing your audience knows what passage we are referring to.

Now that this EVENT explained in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 will occur is not up for debate. Therefore one should not say they do not believe in the rapture. That is like saying they do not believe that Paul was telling the truth. It is usually the timing of the rapture that is in question. Some believe that the rapture will occur before the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God is poured out as described beginning about Rev 6 forward. Some believe that the rapture occurs in the middle of the tribulation and some believe that the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation but most evangelicals believe in the event occurring at some point when the Lord Returns and there will be a people alive at that time who WILL NOT SEE DEATH. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and be given the same kind of immortal bodies as those who did die and are resurrected. This EVENT WILL OCCUR. It is the blessed hope of the saints and should be preached and used to comfort one another as we wait for his appearing which will mean the glorification of our bodies and our gathering to be with Him.
I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
I don't see a contradiction between believing in a pre-tribulation rapture and also people being saved afterwards and being killed for it.

There is an interpretation that the raptured saints are seen in the symbolic representation of the 4 faced creatures and the 24 elders because they both sing the words "thou has redeemed US by your blood and WE shall reign as kings and priests" Cherubim can't sing those words so it would mean they are glorified saints, probably raptured and they are seen in this symbolic way as a way of showing that the raptured saints inherit the same proximity to the throne of Glory that we see cherubim in Isaiah 6 who sang Holy Holy Holy, this is what these rapture saints inherit, and other such elevated offices and administrations as seen in the 24 thrones representing the 24 governor priests of 2 Chron 24. These crowned 24 priest kings elders are not just 24 special Jews, since they say "you have redeemed us from every tongue, tribe, people and nation", which are more than 24, and not just Jews. They are therefore symbolic of the high offices inherited by all the raptured saints.

The raptured saints are those who are rewarded with more than those who come after. These with white robes and palm branches come after and do not occupy the same offices as they were not ready at the time of the rapture. That is one theory.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#9
It is sad that your friend could not show you where it was in the bible. Here it is:
1 Cor 15
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And also:
1 Thess 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

As you can clearly read there is going to be a time in the future when there will be a particular generation of believers who will not die but while alive will be changed to a glorified immortal state equal to that of those who are resurrected from the dead.

This is called the rapture because it is the English word of a Latin word from the Greek word that was translated "caught up" in the text above. So if you or any of your friends are offended by the word "rapture" Then just read both of these passages without taking a breath, and then they will finally understand why a using a single word is so much more convenient. LOL :) Of course reading both passages is important to educate those who are unaware of this topic, but once both passages are read and understood, it then becomes convient to refer to this EVENT as the rapture, providing your audience knows what passage we are referring to.

Now that this EVENT explained in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 will occur is not up for debate. Therefore one should not say they do not believe in the rapture. That is like saying they do not believe that Paul was telling the truth. It is usually the timing of the rapture that is in question. Some believe that the rapture will occur before the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God is poured out as described beginning about Rev 6 forward. Some believe that the rapture occurs in the middle of the tribulation and some believe that the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation but most evangelicals believe in the event occurring at some point when the Lord Returns and there will be a people alive at that time who WILL NOT SEE DEATH. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and be given the same kind of immortal bodies as those who did die and are resurrected. This EVENT WILL OCCUR. It is the blessed hope of the saints and should be preached and used to comfort one another as we wait for his appearing which will mean the glorification of our bodies and our gathering to be with Him.
There has never been a believer that has seen death as exemplified by Enoch.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then we're told in the same Chapter of Hebrews that Enoch's body died WITHOUT receiving the promise of a glorified body.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Enoch and all the Old Testament saints WERE the dead in Christ, and they WERE (past tense) raised with Christ at his resurrection and are now in heaven in their glorified bodies.

You're whole premise of the rapture is based on the faulty belief that the dead in Christ are Christians who have died over the last 2000 years and that goes directly against the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

So your story is a nice fairy tale, but not one bit of it is biblical.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,378
113
#10
I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
Hello saintrose!

In answer to your question, those who will be beheaded for their faith will be those who will become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. We are introduced to this vast group in Revelation 7:9-17 who are from every nation, tribe, people and language. This is the same group whom the beast will wage war against and conquer as revealed in Rev.13:7. This is the same group that is resurrected after the Lord returns to the earth, as revealed in Rev.20:4-6.

Those who are beheaded, are the saints who are present during the time of God's wrath and who come out of the great tribulation.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#11
There has never been a believer that has seen death as exemplified by Enoch.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then we're told in the same Chapter of Hebrews that Enoch's body died WITHOUT receiving the promise of a glorified body.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Enoch and all the Old Testament saints WERE the dead in Christ, and they WERE (past tense) raised with Christ at his resurrection and are now in heaven in their glorified bodies.

You're whole premise of the rapture is based on the faulty belief that the dead in Christ are Christians who have died over the last 2000 years and that goes directly against the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

So your story is a nice fairy tale, but not one bit of it is biblical.
Hebrews 11:13 is referencing all the others that had been mentioned, not Enoch which was an acceptation. It is obvious to any common sense reading of the text that the author is repeating what was well known and understood by all interpreters of the time (see other writers from the period) that Enoch did not die (did not see death). He does not have to say "These all died , except for Enoch who did not see death, because only an idiot would think he was saying Enoch died after he just said that he didn't.

Everyone assumes he is talking about all the others in the list. To take these words "These all died" and apply it to Enoch would be to accuse the author of contradicting himself in writing and not having the mental capacity to notice it. It is not fair to the author to take a phrase and turn it into a meaning he did not intend and accuse him ...

"You said they all died... So Enoch Died... All means all... Can't take it back.. nanny nanny boo boo! (fingers in ears "lalallallallla" ) "not listening, Enoch died!, Enock died!, Enoch died!. "

LOL That is the spirit behind such an dishonest interpretation. You know full well you are being dishonest.

Elijah did not die either.
There is a day when those that are alive and are changed in the twinkling of an eye will not die either. They will not sleep, they will not see death.
Those that insist on another interpretation than Enoch, Elijah, or the raptured saints not dying because the scripture that says "it is appointed unto men once to die" are simply not understanding "it is appointed unto men once to die" and turning it into an inflexible rule that can never be overruled. It is the general way of things and most will experience it, but there are some that will not die, they will be changed. If any man says it is not true, have nothing to do with that man.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#12
Hebrews 11:13 is referencing all the others that had been mentioned, not Enoch which was an acceptation. It is obvious to any common sense reading of the text that the author is repeating what was well known and understood by all interpreters of the time (see other writers from the period) that Enoch did not die (did not see death). He does not have to say "These all died , except for Enoch who did not see death, because only an idiot would think he was saying Enoch died after he just said that he didn't.

Everyone assumes he is talking about all the others in the list. To take these words "These all died" and apply it to Enoch would be to accuse the author of contradicting himself in writing and not having the mental capacity to notice it. It is not fair to the author to take a phrase and turn it into a meaning he did not intend and accuse him ...

"You said they all died... So Enoch Died... All means all... Can't take it back.. nanny nanny boo boo! (fingers in ears "lalallallallla" ) "not listening, Enoch died!, Enock died!, Enoch died!. "

LOL That is the spirit behind such an dishonest interpretation. You know full well you are being dishonest.

Elijah did not die either.
There is a day when those that are alive and are changed in the twinkling of an eye will not die either. They will not sleep, they will not see death.
Those that insist on another interpretation than Enoch, Elijah, or the raptured saints not dying because the scripture that says "it is appointed unto men once to die" are simply not understanding "it is appointed unto men once to die" and turning it into an inflexible rule that can never be overruled. It is the general way of things and most will experience it, but there are some that will not die, they will be changed. If any man says it is not true, have nothing to do with that man.
Do you think Enoch's body was taken up into heaven along with his spirit or do you think his body dropped dead when his spirit left?
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#13
Do you think Enoch's body was taken up into heaven along with his spirit or do you think his body dropped dead when his spirit left?
If he did not die (did not see death) then he was taken up alive. After that, no one knows? You can ask him about it later. It is one of those things that has not been revealed. The story seems to be there simply to provoke faith that God can do what He wants. He is sovereign over Himself. It is there to inspire faith from the dawn of history that there is a hope that death is not the final word. Enoch prophesied of the coming of the Lord with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment ...for all their harsh words the ungodly had spoken against him." Possibly, harsh words that were spoken against this prophesy. Enoch's being translated without dying seems to be a vindication from God against his enemies that spoke harshly against the prophesy, theology, or truth of the coming of the Lord to execute judgment.
The rapture of the saints will be very much the same thing. Not a secret invisible glorification but transfiguration and shining like the stars is my belief based on numerous hints in scripture. A vindication before all, and then tribulation upon all them that spoke harsh words against him.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#14
If he did not die (did not see death) then he was taken up alive. After that, no one knows? You can ask him about it later. It is one of those things that has not been revealed. The story seems to be there simply to provoke faith that God can do what He wants. He is sovereign over Himself. It is there to inspire faith from the dawn of history that there is a hope that death is not the final word. Enoch prophesied of the coming of the Lord with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment ...for all their harsh words the ungodly had spoken against him." Possibly, harsh words that were spoken against this prophesy. Enoch's being translated without dying seems to be a vindication from God against his enemies that spoke harshly against the prophesy, theology, or truth of the coming of the Lord to execute judgment.
The rapture of the saints will be very much the same thing. Not a secret invisible glorification but transfiguration and shining like the stars is my belief based on numerous hints in scripture. A vindication before all, and then tribulation upon all them that spoke harsh words against him.
Flesh and blood isn't allowed into heaven and Enoch didn't go up in a glorified body because Jesus hadn't paid the price for his redemption yet.

So we don't have to guess, we know for a fact that Enoch's spirit was taken up and his earthly body dropped dead because "These all died in faith" and "it is appointed unto ALL MEN once to die".

Just like Joshua said, "this day I am going the way of all the earth." Joshua went the way of ALL THE EARTH, just like Enoch and every other human being will go.

Why twist scripture to fit a false doctrine that is nowhere near as big a blessing or as comforting as the true doctrine is?
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#15
Flesh and blood isn't allowed into heaven and Enoch didn't go up in a glorified body because Jesus hadn't paid the price for his redemption yet.

So we don't have to guess, we know for a fact that Enoch's spirit was taken up and his earthly body dropped dead because "These all died in faith" and "it is appointed unto ALL MEN once to die".

Just like Joshua said, "this day I am going the way of all the earth." Joshua went the way of ALL THE EARTH, just like Enoch and every other human being will go.

Why twist scripture to fit a false doctrine that is nowhere near as big a blessing or as comforting as the true doctrine is?
There will be a generation of saints who will be alive when Jesus comes and will not die. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and be given a glorified body equal to those who rise from the dead. It is a mystery, that you may not understand but it is the solid interpretation of scripture for 2000 years.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#16
There will be a generation of saints who will be alive when Jesus comes and will not die. They will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and be given a glorified body equal to those who rise from the dead. It is a mystery, that you may not understand but it is the solid interpretation of scripture for 2000 years.
Why not just believe Jesus, his words are plain and simple, easily understood. God is the God of the LIVING not the dead. Whosoever LIVETH and believeth in Jesus shall NEVER die.

There is no special group of super tribulation saints that will be raptured out of here without dying. ALL Christians are raptured out of here in their GLORIFIED bodies just prior to this earthly body dying. The rapture is the TRANSLATION - the translation from this body to the heavenly body.

1 Thessalonians 4 is nothing more than a reiteration of John 11:25-26.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Those are the OT saints who were dead in Christ, they rose with Christ.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Those who are alive and remain AFTER His resurrection will be caught up together with the Old Testament saints and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,813
3,117
113
#17
I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
Please identify the doctrine you are questioning accurately..

You are not questioning the rapture doctrine..

You are questioning the PRE- TRIBULATION rapture doctrine..

While the rapture is indeed in the Bible It's timing is very much discussed and debated.. There is the already mentioned Pre-tribulation rapture which declares that Christians will be raptured before the end times persecution and end times great disasters.. Then there are variation right up to the rapture doctrine i believe, being the second coming of the LORD Jesus rapture..

Yes Saints will be beheaded during the times of great persecution from the anti-christ and his followers but some will survive by the grace of God right up to the day of the Return of Jesus and it is these living Saints on that day that will experience the rapture..
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
906
490
63
#18
the word Rapture is not in the Bible just like the word Trinity is not. The concepts are.

Once the church is removed God will pour out His Judgement on the earth as HE has never before. The Devil aka Satan will be running the world system yet there will be those who will not serve him and choose death. These are the saints who you are speaking of and Rev 20:4

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Unsure what you mean by 'once the church is removed'? If the 'church' is removed (christians?) then who do you think is left to be beheaded?
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
906
490
63
#19
Every person from Adam to now has died. - it is appointed unto man once to die. The "rapture" verses describe the process of a believer being translated into their new bodies just prior to the death of this earthly body. Stephen is the best biblical example of the rapture.
That doesn't have anything to do with the end times though.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
906
490
63
#20
I thought that it was the people who become born again during the tribulation and don't take the mark of the beast. That's why they are beheaded. The church have been removed by rapture and aren't here.
How can 'the church' be removed and yet other believers remain to be beheaded? That doesn't square. How does God decide who stays and who leaves? Something isn't right about the rapture teaching.