If the Rapture is true, just who are the saints beheaded by the Antichrist?

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Ruby123

Guest
I really appreciate the good intent of what you have written here. It is certainly admirable for people to do some of those things out of love for others (those simply for the sake of salvation are definitely 'valid').

However, it is simply not according to biblical truth.

The very next time Jesus appears anywhere-near-the-earth-whatsoever - He will be coming in the manner described in this verse:

2 Thessalonians 1:

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

This is the biblical truth.

There will not be a "split" Second Coming of Christ.

This idea was "invented" to deceive people into believing an "alternate" (but untrue) eschatology - that is not biblical.

It may sound nice - but, it is not biblical.

The Second Coming of Christ will be a one-time-occurance 'event' in which every Second Coming prophecy will be fulfilled in its proper order.

And, it will be post-Tribulation, post-Two-Witnesses.

This is the biblical truth.

The things you are suggesting might could happen "after the Rapture" - people cannot do own their own without the convicting action of the Holy Spirit - which will be "withdrawn" at the time of the rapture when Jesus appears.

At that point in time, all opportunity will be gone.

The scenario you present is "wishful thinking" at best.

Anyone who has refused Christ up until that point is very highly likely to fall into the trap that Satan will have set so that they will believe whatever official story is offered.

Remember these verses:

2 Thessalonians 2:

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

At the time of the rapture, all opportunity will be gone.
I don't know Gary, scripture can be interpreted anyway as to fit your doctrines and beliefs.
I tend to believe pre trib rapture but I also am prepared if it should not be true and we have to go through the tribulation and get beheaded. Like I have said before if that is the case I guess it will be quick and we will then go onto be with the Lord. I strangely don't seem to be worried atm.
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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I strangely don't seem to be worried atm.
Any Christian who understands the truth and has accepted it - who has "settled it in their soul" - who puts their trust in God - should be able to function - and, hopefully make the difference when it needs to count.
 

GaryA

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I don't know Gary, scripture can be interpreted anyway as to fit your doctrines and beliefs.
That is why it is so important for you to study it in-depth - so that you "get it right" - not just believing the best sounding thing you have heard.

Each and every one of us must study in a way that does not allow us to wrap scripture around our own will - what we want it to say - but rather - always ignoring our own will and considering what the Bible actually says.
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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I tend to believe pre trib rapture but I also am prepared if it should not be true and we have to go through the tribulation and get beheaded.
Good for you, sister!

Not many Christians seem to be able to say such as this with a calm assurance.
 
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Ruby123

Guest
That is why it is so important for you to study it in-depth - so that you "get it right" - not just believing the best sounding thing you have heard.

Each and every one of us must study in a way that does not allow us to wrap scripture around our own will - what we want it to say - but rather - always ignoring our own will and considering what the Bible actually says.
I find both sides have flaws so my attitude is we will all see the truth when it happens. If it is pre trib, well there is nothing to worry about. If it is post trib, don't get the mark of the beast. That's really all we can do.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
Good for you, sister!

Not many Christians seem to be able to say such as this with a calm assurance.
Don't worry I am sure I will be panicking at the time but I will say the prayer that I find works the best "God help!!!"
 
Aug 16, 2020
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I do read the bible. Ive debated Mosaic law too many times. Christ settled it.
Christ didn't "settle Mosaic LAW", (matt 5:17) He fulfilled it.

The issue here is post protestant ignorance of the LAW. Mostly they reject it, hate it and accuse it of matters opposed to the good grace of God in giving it to us.

When the phrase "settled it" is used, it implies that the LAW is somehow destroyed or abolished. Nothing is further from the truth. Jesus fulfilled it, which according to scripture means that He perfected it. A perfect thing does not pass into nothingness. It persists.

In point of fact, no one can be saved apart from the LAW.

Not knowing this, the anti-Semitic church of today has passed into error of the most severe kind. Instead of Godly worship, we promote humanistic demonic words and music and sermons. Instead of true faith, we promote a sort of watered down middle-school level propaganda that does nothing to edify the faithful.

We now experience a form of Retail Religion - devoid of any sort of spirituality, infected with gnostic ideology and inspired (I use the word loosely) by hedonistic music and religious buzz words. Our hypocrisy walks hand in hand with our religious hubris.

The church today is Ichabod ( 1 Samuel 14:3). It has rejected God's Word and the spirit that once gave it purpose and meaning and protection has been removed. (Revelation 2:5)

The LAW isn't settled, not settled at all. The LAW continues and persists and SIN is still defined by it.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
Sep 18, 2021
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There are two groups of saved men in heaven after everything is finished. Those who were redeemed by the blood that the lamb shed on the cross, and those who were redeemed by their own blood(were beheaded because of their faith in Jesus). The first group will be taken before(Great Tribulation) the Spirit of God is lifted so that the Antichrist is given power to enforce the mark of his kingdom. The second group will reject the mark of the beast and die because of opposing the beast and his system but their salvation will be through their own blood but with Faith in Jesus. Revelation clearly states out these two groups and goes ahead to state that the first group, the first borns of the kingdom will have power and privilege while the second, the adopted sons of the kingdom will hold no divine power but will be priests of God in heaven.
The saints from the first resurrection will reign with Christ for a thousand years while the saints from the second ressurection(slain by the beast while enforcing his mark) will be priests of God
Rev 20:5-7
"the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection."
The one thousand year here, the event that is happening is Christ celebrating with Christians he saved with his own blood and scars.
When you read the next verse
Rev 20:7
"Satan will be loosed from his prison "
Now here is where the Great Tribulation starts right after the First Ressurection.
Now in this new satanic government there will be people who will convert during this time and resist the beast system , these are those who will share in the second ressurection which has no power but will be priests of God, i hope you understood...

God revealing his plan through Abraham.
Abraham has a son through Faith(Isaac)
foretells saints who inherit the kingdom through faith in jesus...
And Abraham having a son through blood(Ishmael) foretells saints who will inherit the kingdom through their own blood and still be legit sons of God...
The Bible speaks itself be blessed
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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There are two groups of saved men in heaven after everything is finished. Those who were redeemed by the blood that the lamb shed on the cross, and those who were redeemed by their own blood(were beheaded because of their faith in Jesus). The first group will be taken before(Great Tribulation) the Spirit of God is lifted so that the Antichrist is given power to enforce the mark of his kingdom. The second group will reject the mark of the beast and die because of opposing the beast and his system but their salvation will be through their own blood but with Faith in Jesus. Revelation clearly states out these two groups and goes ahead to state that the first group, the first born of the kingdom will have power and privilege while the second, the adopted sons of the kingdom will hold no divine power but will be priests of God in heaven.
The saints from the first resurrection will reign with Christ for a thousand years while the saints from the second ressurection(slain by the beast while enforcing his mark) will be priests of God
Greetings Timothy,

What you have said above is false! No one can obtain salvation by the shedding of their own blood. This is why Jesus appeared in the flesh, i.e. as a human being, so that He could represent believers, but as One without sin. Those who are killed by the beasts government will be due to their faith in Christ. It is through their faith in the Lord's shed blood that we and they are saved. The result of their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and because they will not worship the beast, his image and receive his mark, will result in their persecution and death. However, in no way can they be saved by their own deaths.

By the way, those saints who are killed during the great tribulation, not only will they be kings and priests, but they will also rule with Christ during that thousand years.

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Also, Jesus was the first fruits of the first resurrection, with the church being next, the two witnesses, the Male Child and the great tribulation saints. All of these are a part of the first resurrection, which takes place in phases. It could be better understood as the resurrection which takes place prior to the one at the end of the thousand years, which will be a resurrection of the unrighteous dead at the great white throne judgment.

"Satan will be loosed from his prison "
Now here is where the Great Tribulation starts right after the First Resurrection.
Now in this new satanic government there will be people who will convert during this time and resist the beast system , these are those who will share in the second resurrection which has no power but will be priests of God, i hope you understood...
The above is also false. The entire seven years is the time of God's wrath, with the great tribulation taking place during the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. After the 7th bowl has been poured out which completes God's wrath, the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His thousand year kingdom. It is not until the end of the thousand years that Satan will be released from the Abyss, which is just prior to the great white throne judgment.

The beasts kingdom will have come to its end when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. When Satan is released, it will be just for the purpose proving that even after a thousand years of complete peace, mankind still rebels against God by Satan's deception. The tribulation/great tribulation takes place prior to the thousand years.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
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There are two groups of saved men in heaven after everything is finished. Those who were redeemed by the blood that the lamb shed on the cross, and those who were redeemed by their own blood(were beheaded because of their faith in Jesus). The first group will be taken before(Great Tribulation) the Spirit of God is lifted so that the Antichrist is given power to enforce the mark of his kingdom. The second group will reject the mark of the beast and die because of opposing the beast and his system but their salvation will be through their own blood but with Faith in Jesus. Revelation clearly states out these two groups and goes ahead to state that the first group, the first borns of the kingdom will have power and privilege while the second, the adopted sons of the kingdom will hold no divine power but will be priests of God in heaven.
The saints from the first resurrection will reign with Christ for a thousand years while the saints from the second ressurection(slain by the beast while enforcing his mark) will be priests of God
Rev 20:5-7
"the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection."
The one thousand year here, the event that is happening is Christ celebrating with Christians he saved with his own blood and scars.
When you read the next verse
Rev 20:7
"Satan will be loosed from his prison "
Now here is where the Great Tribulation starts right after the First Ressurection.
Now in this new satanic government there will be people who will convert during this time and resist the beast system , these are those who will share in the second ressurection which has no power but will be priests of God, i hope you understood...

God revealing his plan through Abraham.
Abraham has a son through Faith(Isaac)
foretells saints who inherit the kingdom through faith in jesus...
And Abraham having a son through blood(Ishmael) foretells saints who will inherit the kingdom through their own blood and still be legit sons of God...
The Bible speaks itself be blessed
Hey :) if you had just said "two groups" I could see how someone might look at it like that but as Ahwatukee was saying no one gets to the Father but through Jesus. Being martyred for Christ oh PRAISE GOD but they were already saved they just died for Christ others before them were caught up. The great tribulation is based on 69+7 weeks. There is one week Israel owes God aka 7 years. The great tribulation is when the AntiChrist is running around. Saying when Satan is loosed for a short time.. ."Now here is where the Great Tribulation starts right after the First " <---I can't find that in the word at all..not even a hint. Christ laid that part out very clearly.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Rev 20:7
"Satan will be loosed from his prison "
Now here is where the Great Tribulation starts right after the First Ressurection.

No, the great trib is long over by that timeframe. The is over by the time of Armageddon found in Rev 19. Satan is imprisoned after trib has ended and just before 1000 years begins. When he is released, both the trib and 1000 years are over.
 
Sep 18, 2021
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So Abraham having a son through Faith and having a son through blood does not point to God being Abraham and the saints inheriting the kingdom of God through the two ways is false? And then i might have used the wrong word for this period that starts after the 1000 years. I meant that The beast system will start its mark printing after the 1000 years are ended. The First Borns of the kingdom are those Christ bought with his own blood.
The second borns Are those that bought their right to inherit the kingdom of God through their suffering in the Beast One world system.

Why would God let some saints get beheaded in the beast system and suffer for their Faith while others get caught in the air before hand?

The answer is one: People who will have witnessed the Rapture will know that the gospel is true because most of their christian loved ones will have been taken, the evidencw will all be around them but then they cant be saved by Jesus because they did not believe before the rapture
Blessed are they that have not seen me yet they have believed

what about these that have seen so they would believe in me?
They will have to prove their faith by dying and suffering in the beasts system with their own blood... Go half equivalent of what Christ went through to save those who believed without seeing....
Surely a believer who believed without seeing is not equal to a believer who saw something supernatural like his brother getting caught up in the sky so that he believes.... There are two groups and you have to believe
 
Aug 20, 2021
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So Abraham having a son through Faith and having a son through blood does not point to God being Abraham and the saints inheriting the kingdom of God through the two ways is false? And then i might have used the wrong word for this period that starts after the 1000 years. I meant that The beast system will start its mark printing after the 1000 years are ended. The First Borns of the kingdom are those Christ bought with his own blood.
The second borns Are those that bought their right to inherit the kingdom of God through their suffering in the Beast One world system.

Why would God let some saints get beheaded in the beast system and suffer for their Faith while others get caught in the air before hand?

The answer is one: People who will have witnessed the Rapture will know that the gospel is true because most of their christian loved ones will have been taken, the evidencw will all be around them but then they cant be saved by Jesus because they did not believe before the rapture
Blessed are they that have not seen me yet they have believed

what about these that have seen so they would believe in me?
They will have to prove their faith by dying and suffering in the beasts system with their own blood... Go half equivalent of what Christ went through to save those who believed without seeing....
Surely a believer who believed without seeing is not equal to a believer who saw something supernatural like his brother getting caught up in the sky so that he believes.... There are two groups and you have to believe
4 the elects sake the days r shorten. even in the tribs of the last days if u call on god he will deliver u out of it.The chruch of Philadelphia is spread from the tribs
 
Sep 18, 2021
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4 the elects sake the days r shorten. even in the tribs of the last days if u call on god he will deliver u out of it.The chruch of Philadelphia is spread from the tribs
Those who will witness the rapture will fulfill the prophecy that
Every eye will see the blessed salvation of the Lord
The rest of humanity will be given a chance to redeem their own souls through their own blood but through belief in Christ, the saints taken through the rapture had their debt paid by Christ's suffering on the cross, the remaining humanity that have seen first so that they should believe will pay the price through their own blood which was what was destined to happen to all believers before Christ intervened
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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I argued with a friend yesterday who claimed that the Rapture is going to happen. I asked her where it was in the Bible and she said that it's not in the Bible but it's true. The pastor at bible study taught that we don't have to worry about anything because we're going to be raptured out.

If the Rapture is true then just who are the saints whoa re beheaded for their faith?

And unless you didn't know this - our government ordered a number of guillotines and so did Canada. In fact Canada is constructing concentration-style camps.
Some people, especially those who are nominally Christian, will be saved during the tribulation. They will lose their physical lives but gain eternal life.

I'm inclined to believe the pre-trib position. To me, the restraining force is the true church. Once we are gone, there is no one resisting Satan and the wicked forces of darkness. I could be wrong. My advice is for Christians to live in complete trust and confidence in the Lord Jesus and let Him be strength and peace. All will be clear sooner or later. God's grace will always be sufficient, no matter what the situation.

Satan loves to see Christians fighting each other. It means that he is being left alone to continue his dirty work. We need to get back to basics. The blood of the Lamb overcomes Satan's accusations. Submit to God and resist the devil. Stay humble and confident in God. He will never leave us or forsake us.
 
Sep 18, 2021
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Some people, especially those who are nominally Christian, will be saved during the tribulation. They will lose their physical lives but gain eternal life.

I'm inclined to believe the pre-trib position. To me, the restraining force is the true church. Once we are gone, there is no one resisting Satan and the wicked forces of darkness. I could be wrong. My advice is for Christians to live in complete trust and confidence in the Lord Jesus and let Him be strength and peace. All will be clear sooner or later. God's grace will always be sufficient, no matter what the situation.

Satan loves to see Christians fighting each other. It means that he is being left alone to continue his dirty work. We need to get back to basics. The blood of the Lamb overcomes Satan's accusations. Submit to God and resist the devil. Stay humble and confident in God. He will never leave us or forsake us.
Have you read the verse that refers to the entity that should be taken out of the way so the Antichrist is revealed...
"He who stands in the way"
Now you need to learn that the Bible when it refers to a Church usually uses the pronoun Pronoun "She". the Church is a bridegroom and mostly in the bible would be identified as a woman. Like the Woman riding on the beast. The church riding on the government entity. So the verse would have used a She to refer to the True church if it were the one standing on the way...
He on the other hand may refer to the Holy Ghost who is still completing the works of salvation
 
Aug 20, 2021
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Have you read the verse that refers to the entity that should be taken out of the way so the Antichrist is revealed...
"He who stands in the way"
Now you need to learn that the Bible when it refers to a Church usually uses the pronoun Pronoun "She". the Church is a bridegroom and mostly in the bible would be identified as a woman. Like the Woman riding on the beast. The church riding on the government entity. So the verse would have used a She to refer to the True church if it were the one standing on the way...
He on the other hand may refer to the Holy Ghost who is still completing the works of salvation
I think she the harlot is riding on the devil...The devil being the beast of burden.
 
Sep 21, 2021
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There has never been a believer that has seen death as exemplified by Enoch.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then we're told in the same Chapter of Hebrews that Enoch's body died WITHOUT receiving the promise of a glorified body.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Enoch and all the Old Testament saints WERE the dead in Christ, and they WERE (past tense) raised with Christ at his resurrection and are now in heaven in their glorified bodies.

You're whole premise of the rapture is based on the faulty belief that the dead in Christ are Christians who have died over the last 2000 years and that goes directly against the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

So your story is a nice fairy tale, but not one bit of it is biblical.

Nice try, however you are in major error, because you are taking Enoch's story out of context. Those who died an earthly death, was those listed AFTER Enoch!
Keep to the scripture's as is, Paul wrote he, Enoch did NOT see death and could not be found, because God Translated him!
Plain and simple, I can see why this may be one of the reasons you were banned.
Translated means Enoch was removed! Body, Soul and Spirit he did not see death.

You see the language is the same regarding Elijah:
2Ki 2:16 And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.
2Ki 2:17 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.


He was NOT found, the Lord took him alive not seeing death.

Simple........
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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I find both sides have flaws so my attitude is we will all see the truth when it happens. If it is pre trib, well there is nothing to worry about. If it is post trib, don't get the mark of the beast. That's really all we can do.
Pray for pre
Prepare for post
And anytime in between now and then would be just fine too
:)