OPIUM WARS

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calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#1
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#1
Are americans to to blame for the Vietnam war? Was it really just a CIA front for opium smuggling? If so are americans to blame or just Washington? What about Afganistan? Now replace the word americans with catholics, the cia with conqistadors and washington with the vatican. Oh, replace opium with gold. My son and I are veterans and we do not accept the blame for the washington establishments mis-deeds
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#2
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2
No Americans are not to blame in my view and I am veteran as well (Marine 80's) My view is that the American public has no clue to the truth of anything pertaining to the what's why's and causes of the wars, CIA actions etc. that our government has sanctioned other than World Wars 1 and 2...even the civil war is attributed to Slavery which is false (TAXES on Tobacco and Cotton set to Europe was the cause)the slavery issue was thrown in to get the British to side with North so as to keep the French from helping the South (both were off the east coast) The American public has been spoon fed one lie after another by the Government and anyone who disagrees with this needs to lay off the juice.....

Having said that......innocent people pay the price for governmental decisions all the time through wars, currency issues, etc.....we are no different and when the world finally figures out how many times the American government has fleeced the world through printing trillions of dollars to pay off everybody and the fact that our money is worthless and backed by nothing but a lie printed on the very paper it is made of......the gig will be up and we will ALL pay the price.....our ALLIES will as well because their economies are directly tied to the American dollar....
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#4
Apr 18, 2013
9,339
2,427
113
#4
calibob said:
Are americans to to blame for the Vietnam war? Was it really just a CIA front for opium smuggling? If so are americans to blame or just Washington? What about Afganistan? Now replace the word americans with catholics, the cia with conqistadors and washington with the vatican. Oh, replace opium with gold. My son and I are veterans and we do not accept the blame for the washington establishments mis-deeds
Click to expand...
You cannot blame everyone in a group for the decisions of the leaders; this is very true.

However, it is also a false equivalence to compare a religion to a nation.
They are not the same, and one does not make a good analogy for the other.

They could be partially analogous, but only when a religion leaves the realm of metaphysics and ventures into the realm of military conquest, and into other similar endeavors usually resigned only to temporal sovereigns. In short, we cannot compare a religion to a nation unless a religion is acting like a nation.

I think westerners have a hard time understanding Islam precisely because it is a religion where these concepts overlap.


Overall, this is messy stuff.
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maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#5
Apr 18, 2013
9,339
2,427
113
#5
Let me clarify: westerners have a hard time understanding Islam because it is a religion where the concepts of RELIGION and TEMPORAL SOVEREIGNTY overlap inherently and necessarily.

Though Christendom has often swerved from it's own foundational tenets, these same statements of inherency and necessity cannot be applied to Christianity.



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calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#6
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#6
maxwel said:
You cannot blame everyone in a group for the decisions of the leaders; this is very true.

However, it is also a false equivalence to compare a religion to a nation.
They are not the same, and one does not make a good analogy for the other.

They could be partially analogous, but only when a religion leaves the realm of metaphysics and ventures into the realm of military conquest, and into other similar endeavors usually resigned only to temporal sovereigns. In short, we cannot compare a religion to a nation unless a religion is acting like a nation.

I think westerners have a hard time understanding Islam precisely because it is a religion where these concepts overlap.


Overall, this is messy stuff.
---------------



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Click to expand...
Yes, agree with most of what you said.. The point I was trying to make is that the Vatican IS a nation! Even the U.N. and the nation of Italy recognize it as such and allows 'it' not them to make and enforce laws, have their own armies, have its own senate etc.
I was not taut this in catholic school, I learned it after I rebeled against it. most Christians inc. catholics don't know either. p.s. I seperate the Vatican from the satholics as I seperate americans from washigton politics. If I condem Washington politics, I do not condem americans. If I condem the Vatican, can I not defend innocent catholics who are decieved and condem the decievers?, bob
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#7
Apr 18, 2013
9,339
2,427
113
#7
calibob said:
Yes, agree with most of what you said.. The point I was trying to make is that the Vatican IS a nation! Even the U.N. and the nation of Italy recognize it as such and allows 'it' not them to make and enforce laws, have their own armies, have its own senate etc.
I was not taut this in catholic school, I learned it after I rebeled against it. most Christians inc. catholics don't know either. p.s. I seperate the Vatican from the satholics as I seperate americans from washigton politics. If I condem Washington politics, I do not condem americans. If I condem the Vatican, can I not defend innocent catholics who are decieved and condem the decievers?, bob
Click to expand...
Yes, I understood your point, and I agree.

I was just drawing the point out in some other directions because I felt it was pertinent in our current political climate.


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calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#9
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#9
Sometimes it takes more than one opinion, speech or rant to make a point clear & I may be wrong. Feel free to disagree maybe I'll learn something new. I appreciate feedback, unlike those who think they have it all figured out...bob
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#10
#10
dcontroversal said:
No Americans are not to blame in my view and I am veteran as well (Marine 80's) My view is that the American public has no clue to the truth of anything pertaining to the what's why's and causes of the wars, CIA actions etc. that our government has sanctioned other than World Wars 1 and 2...even the civil war is attributed to Slavery which is false (TAXES on Tobacco and Cotton set to Europe was the cause)the slavery issue was thrown in to get the British to side with North so as to keep the French from helping the South (both were off the east coast) The American public has been spoon fed one lie after another by the Government and anyone who disagrees with this needs to lay off the juice.....

Having said that......innocent people pay the price for governmental decisions all the time through wars, currency issues, etc.....we are no different and when the world finally figures out how many times the American government has fleeced the world through printing trillions of dollars to pay off everybody and the fact that our money is worthless and backed by nothing but a lie printed on the very paper it is made of......the gig will be up and we will ALL pay the price.....our ALLIES will as well because their economies are directly tied to the American dollar....
Click to expand...
While I agree with what you say, I believe the voters must share some of the blame when they continue to send the same people to Washington time and time again.
 
calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#11
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#11
SpoonJuly said:
While I agree with what you say, I believe the voters must share some of the blame when they continue to send the same people to Washington time and time again.
Click to expand...
I agree however democracy is no longer a stapel within our country (assuming you are american). We elect, or pretend to elect people that have our best interest at heart, and after elected switch to whatever side gives them the most money.

I have a name for it; ANTISOCIALIST PERSONALITY DISORDER it is when the will of the people is greater than than the will of the privilaged and they demonize. We must be told what is good for u s because what is good for us makes no money.
 
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