The Trump Dictatorship

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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
107
63
Please have some patience with me, as time is limited.

Wrong ......abortion is not a right.


I believe that it is a right. A right that cannot be taken away by any government. No one can stop a woman from causing herself to miscarriage. It is only a question of the method. Shall she die in miscarriage? Or die from a government bent on enforcement of unenforceable religious morality?

Before there was abortion, in a safe medical environment, women used wire coat hangers and other methods. You think that women who would do something like that, are going to let the government stop them? Even in the prison camps in Europe in WW 2, under penalty of death, women were with child. What would you do?

In your idealistic white and black world, all abortions under all circumstances are murder, but the tail is attached to the elephant, that is, there is more to the issue than idealistic circumstances that do not reflect the reality of the situation with REAL people.


What you do not want is government Interference, what you want is a Right,,,,,,,,,,,, funny how that works????
That is exactly what I want! But not for me personally, but for all women, a choice.


That is not rational thinking that is thinking from an emototional biased prejudicial perspective.
Yes, it is a caring for women with souls and great pain that have to face the hardheartedness of this world without mercy.

You call emotional, I call it love for the living.

It seems that you also care more for embryos, than you do a grown woman or girl.

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Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
173
54
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Hi Blanche,

I believe that you can be a Christian and support Trump. I pray that Trump gets to heaven, and does the right thing in the eyes of Jesus our Lord and Master (teacher). I wish no evil should come to him or any of us.

And I pray that those who hold, the very lives of every person now and future occupants of this planet, in their responsibilities of power, should have the wisdom to understand, that fear, hate, brutality, war, and death is not the way of Jesus and love.

Czar Putin is a ruthless murderer. Killing the people of Ukraine and Croatia everyday, why? why? why?. But he won't stop there. He will be supporting Syria, Iraq, and Iran when they attack Israel. Then Jerusalem will fall.

And the sad part is that some Christians have left the ways of Jesus peace for the ways of Putin war, but then maybe they have really never known the God who is love and the Prince of Peace. I pray that their hearts also be opened.

Being God's children we will disagree in matters of this world. God's children are many, but His mercy is abundant.


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If they cannot see,

It is not up to us who God reveals Himself to, through the Holy Spirit who is love. But we are to stand up for love, love your neighbor as your self, love God/Jesus and showing His ways of love. Love the immigrant as ourselves, love your neighbor county, love those far away.

This time now, this time right now, is our time, all Christians to stand for love, and reason.

It's not about a political party for the Christian, the political party changes over time, its about love, serving love. Walking the path of love for all souls, Jew or Greek.

I just don't see Trump and the senior republican establishment doing that.

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If they cannot see,

It is not up to us who God reveals Himself to, through the Holy Spirit who is love. But we are to stand up for love, love your neighbor as your self, love God/Jesus and showing His ways of love. Love the immigrant as ourselves, love your neighbor county, love those far away.

This time now, this time right now, is our time, all Christians to stand for love, and reason.

It's not about a political party for the Christian, the political party changes over time, its about love, serving love. Walking the path of love for all souls, Jew or Greek.

I just don't see Trump and the senior republican establishment doing that.

-------------------[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. It should not be about Christianity and a political party, but ... unfortunately, this Country is more divided than it has ever been. It is just sad. I think you can be of any political persuasion and be/not be a Christian.
The USA, in fact, was not founded on Christianity or any other religion. and that is a good thing for everyone.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Before there was abortion,
unborn babies were protected by the right to life, no one has the right to take a life.

You have defended murder as a right, yet your constitution says the inalienable right is to "life."

You have failed to make your case.




Please have some patience with me, as time is limited.



I believe that it is a right. A right that cannot be taken away by any government. No one can stop a woman from causing herself to miscarriage. It is only a question of the method. Shall she die in miscarriage? Or die from a government bent on enforcement of unenforceable religious morality?

Before there was abortion, in a safe medical environment, women used wire coat hangers and other methods. You think that women who would do something like that, are going to let the government stop them? Even in the prison camps in Europe in WW 2, under penalty of death, women were with child. What would you do?

In your idealistic white and black world, all abortions under all circumstances are murder, but the tail is attached to the elephant, that is, there is more to the issue than idealistic circumstances that do not reflect the reality of the situation with REAL people.




That is exactly what I want! But not for me personally, but for all women, a choice.




Yes, it is a caring for women with souls and great pain that have to face the hardheartedness of this world without mercy.

You call emotional, I call it love for the living.

It seems that you also care more for embryos, than you do a grown woman or girl.

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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
107
63
I agree with you. It should not be about Christianity and a political party,
Many issues are not simple, with simple solutions. Most are grey with far reaching consequences. To fight confusion, there must be reasoning and discussions.

I believe that most people are reasonable. Billions and billions, 1,000's of millions of people, living their lives in peace with one another. Going to work then home to their children and families, in peace.

But then, there are some who want to destroy that peace for their own selfish motives. Abandoning the ways of peace with God and man, families, for the ways of greed, brutality, fear, no love, war and death.

It doesn't matter what "party" you belong to, the evil of people greedy for wealth and power is everywhere, all around us. It is in the local level, the state level, and the federal level. At your work, where you shop, schools and churches.

But not everybody is like that. Remember the billions of people who you live with everyday? On this planet? Mostly, almost all, live in peace with their families and friends. That is what government is about, maintaining the peace, so that love in families and communities can be sustained.

When governments go to war families die. No nation should go to war because of the egocentric personality of one man, their leader.


but ... unfortunately, this Country is more divided than it has ever been. It is just sad.
I don't believe that. Some want to make it seem that way, to spirit their fear based rhetoric. This is the Russian/supremacist troll propaganda, that democrats or republicans, or green party is evil. That is saying that the Christians that you have gone to church with for years are evil demons because they vote for the best candidate. That makes you evil, because you didn't vote for who someone else wanted?

Always remember that the plan that the supremacists have had for years is to confuse and divide, start a race war or civil conflict, declare marshal law and then seize power. It is a classic tactic of supremacists, being used effectively on this generation, by the Russians and Republicans who are the ones benefiting from Russian interference. That is why Trump and the republicans do not act against the Russian interference and are trying to destroy the investigation. They all took money from the Russians funneled through the NRA. The deep state is the Russians and republicans, attacking law enforcement, national security.

The sad part is that this generation has not been taught about the lies of propaganda and how to identify it.

After WW 2, people were aware of propaganda methods due to Hitler. His lies led to the destruction of Europe, Western Russia, and Germany, millions died. The end result of his "truths" is shown in history.

Now it is being done by different people, but the "spirit" (lies and confusion) is the same.


I think you can be of any political persuasion and be/not be a Christian.
Well there are some, Nazi's, KKK, etc., that might disqualify you from being a Christian, hate groups. Perhaps an erring Christian, whose heart and soul is tormented by the evil that surrounds them. You can't bring forth bitter waters and sweet waters at the same time, either the water will be bitter with hate, or sweet with the love from the Holy Spirit.


The USA, in fact, was not founded on Christianity or any other religion. and that is a good thing for everyone.
I believe that the USA was founded on freedom for all people, that we have found in Jesus. We shouldn't need laws when love is controlling our lives. Our faith in love should be our strength. The love is what is missing in our government.

A person may do as they want, as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else's rights.

Faith and love, instead of laws.

Where there is freedom, there must be self control. Respect for each other.

Equal rights under the law.

Understand that these are things that will not be perfected in this world, like many of our idealistic principles.

But the creation of the U.S. was a major step for the advancement of these goals for ALL people on the planet.

Now it is the turn of this generation to maintain what was paid for by the blood of people from all religions, all races and tribes, men and women, and children. Generations of sacrifice, to bring peace, maintain the peace.

I don't want the RCC to make the laws, Islam or any religion. And I don't want the big ten Jewish commands posted in government either.

We must stand for love now. Those dividers will answer to Jesus for what they are doing, as we will.

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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
107
63
unborn babies were protected by the right to life, no one has the right to take a life.


When a woman must must make a choice, between the life of her unborn child, and her own life, you say, because she chooses her own life, over that of the unborn child, then she is guilty of murder. She should be punished with the punishment of a murderer, because that is what she is. (death for murder in some states)

You have defended murder as a right, yet your constitution says the inalienable right is to "life."
Face up to this reality, a woman can cause herself to miscarriage (self induced abortion) and lose the child if she wills it. No one can stop her.

Should this happen in a safe medical environment? Or at home with a coat hanger where she will bleed to death? Is that where you want to find your daughter? sister? cousin?

You will decide for her? You are, by making it illegal.

It will only be for poor women anyway, the rich can leave to a safe place and not put their lives in danger.


You have failed to make your case.
You have only grabbed the tail of the elephant and believe that you have control over the issue. But the elephant is just not the tail, there is more elephant than just the tail.

What should be the punishment for a woman who causes herself to miscarriage and lose the child? Tell me! Are you afraid to say it? You will not say what you really believe what the punishment should be, why? Just say it! Death! Death! Death! kill them! kill them! Crucify them!

Answer the question and face up to the consequences of what you are saying!

It's like you are trying to measure love with a tape measure, you have the law, but not the spirit of love and mercy for the woman.

The elephant is a grey issue, not black and white, as you would like it to be.

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S

SpoonJuly

Guest
yes

I can see that

but what's your point?
My point is that we would not be talking about/debating this subject if it were not for a breakdown in the morality of our country.
82% of women having abortions are unmarried. The Bible speaks of whoredom. And men are just as guilty as the women.
And this lifestyle is not just accepted but sometimes celebrated today. And the simple solution is to just kill the baby and continue with your whoredom.
If my info is correct, the man has no say because the child is part of the woman's body until the child is born.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
My point is that we would not be talking about/debating this subject if it were not for a breakdown in the morality of our country.
82% of women having abortions are unmarried. The Bible speaks of whoredom. And men are just as guilty as the women.
And this lifestyle is not just accepted but sometimes celebrated today. And the simple solution is to just kill the baby and continue with your whoredom.
If my info is correct, the man has no say because the child is part of the woman's body until the child is born.
an abortion is an abortion is an abortion is an....

what you are saying, is like throwing spoonfuls of water into the ocean. we all know what is going on in the world today..except for the guys in their parents basement trolling everyone

it's simple. I took exception to the way you worded your statement and the many threads that address women as the root of all the ills of the world will explain why. men were keeping concubines and multiple wives and committing adultery while women were called whores for looking at a man....

I have not even really been sensitive to some things because my dad was anything but sexist and to me the world was not like that. of course I have received an 'education' since then and sexism is all over the place and I have become irritated in this forum seeing it so often and sometimes in a very vitriolic way.

I'm really not sure your info is correct because I have heard otherwise. but even that speaks to the immoral society in which we try to live differently

sometimes I really do not like this world anymore. this is not the world I grew up in
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
A choice between the life of the mother or the child is nearly non existent in present day medical practice given all the tests and procedures that are available to monitor the pregnancy.

Abortion is a terrible thing.
Oh I thought it was a grey issue with no black or white:unsure:

All you have repeated over and over is the necessity of this evil.

This is is your thinking in a nutshell...

Because people are going to do evil acts to correct a bad decision of having an unwanted pregnancy, we have to keep the evil act legal so they do not have to deal with the initial bad decision but also so that they do not have to perform the evil of abortion on themselves so lets make it a huge money making industry and pay no attention to millions of babies murdered and denied the true right to life.

You have never once presented a cogent argument against the unborn babies right to life.

It is a world of cognitive dissonance and at its heart completely irrational.

When a woman must must make a choice, between the life of her unborn child, and her own life, you say, because she chooses her own life, over that of the unborn child, then she is guilty of murder. She should be punished with the punishment of a murderer, because that is what she is. (death for murder in some states)



Face up to this reality, a woman can cause herself to miscarriage (self induced abortion) and lose the child if she wills it. No one can stop her.

Should this happen in a safe medical environment? Or at home with a coat hanger where she will bleed to death? Is that where you want to find your daughter? sister? cousin?

You will decide for her? You are, by making it illegal.

It will only be for poor women anyway, the rich can leave to a safe place and not put their lives in danger.




You have only grabbed the tail of the elephant and believe that you have control over the issue. But the elephant is just not the tail, there is more elephant than just the tail.

What should be the punishment for a woman who causes herself to miscarriage and lose the child? Tell me! Are you afraid to say it? You will not say what you really believe what the punishment should be, why? Just say it! Death! Death! Death! kill them! kill them! Crucify them!

Answer the question and face up to the consequences of what you are saying!

It's like you are trying to measure love with a tape measure, you have the law, but not the spirit of love and mercy for the woman.

The elephant is a grey issue, not black and white, as you would like it to be.

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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
107
63
A choice between the life of the mother or the child is nearly non existent in present day medical practice given all the tests and procedures that are available to monitor the pregnancy.
Yes, in advanced nations. What about the places where things like that are still happening. Are they murderers or not?


Oh I thought it was a grey issue with no black or white:unsure:
To say that the woman is automatically a murderer in every abortion situation and must be executed is a law without love, unchristian, without mercy, cruel, judgmental, arrogant.

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You still cannot answer the question,

What should the punishment be for a woman who aborts her child?

In your own words, what will the law say?

Say it! Say it! Shout it! Write it down clearly!

Tell the world your plan for the consequences of making abortion illegal!

Tell us all about what will happen to young girls and women!

What does the Bible say should happen to a murder?

You tell me!


And don't say, " you tell me first," because I have already told you that it should not be illegal under all circumstances. But you say, no exceptions for rape or incest, or other circumstances that evidently you have not really thought about.

Are you a woman? If you are a man, that is why you don't care and haven't really thought about it, because these things, unwanted pregnancies and rape won't happen to you. And no death penalty for you. Only your sister, daughter, mother, cousins, and whores.


All you have repeated over and over is the necessity of this evil.
In your world of high morals and polished ego, you forget that it is impossible to keep the law. But that is what you want to do, pass laws that no one can keep and then punish them, stone them, without exception.

You have the law, but no mercy.


This is is your thinking in a nutshell...

Because people are going to do evil acts to correct a bad decision of having an unwanted pregnancy, we have to keep the evil act legal so they do not have to deal with the initial bad decision
Well, execute the man also, no exceptions, he helped commit the initial bad decision.

Well maybe we can have the government make sex illegal. Oh, wait, we can get the RCC rules for sex enacted into law, that would be popular, right?

People make mistakes. Women have enough trouble from men and government already. We don't need a government monitoring our sex lives and making these personally intimate decisions by misguided morality laws not cannot be kept.


but also so that they do not have to perform the evil of abortion on themselves
Coat hanger or clinic? I choose clinic. But you choose coat hanger for everybody.

You write as if women make these decisions without love, but that is in reality, far from the truth. Women care very much. And you continue to degrade them, and the situation that they are in.


so lets make it a huge money making industry and pay no attention to millions of babies murdered and denied the true right to life.
Now, now, you know that I never said that.


You have never once presented a cogent argument against the unborn babies right to life.
And you have never once presented even one drop of love or mercy for the women. Or even mentioned the terror that 12 year old girls must sometimes face. You have been cold and indifferent to all women. Heartless. Heartless. Heartless toward women and girls.


It is a world of cognitive dissonance and at its heart completely irrational.
No, it is the real world that we live in. Not an idealistic fantasy world of high minded ideologies that are without love and mercy.

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I am not pro abortion. But I believe that the decision to have an abortion should not be made by government.

I am a person with reason, that sees the suffering of women as something that needs to be addressed with love.

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U

UnderGrace

Guest
People make mistakes. Women have enough trouble from men and government already. We don't need a government monitoring our sex lives and making these personally intimate decisions by misguided morality laws not cannot be kept.
Interesting since Paul says to "flee sexual immorality"

There is only one victim in abortion and that is the unborn baby, a topic you cannot seem to address is the rights of the unborn child.

I am really done now, since your last post is just filled with emotionalism and adopted rhetoric from the left.
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
909
252
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For those who believe in the Democratic view of abortion, I have some news for you.....You're going to have to stand before a righteous God on your day of judgment and give an account of why you supported the slaying of innocent blood that God had chosen to walk this Earth, God, not woman, not man, God! It's murder and using your view points to justify it only justifies it in your deceived mind. God sees the mind AND the heart.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
For those who believe in the Democratic view of abortion, I have some news for you.....You're going to have to stand before a righteous God on your day of judgment and give an account of why you supported the slaying of innocent blood that God had chosen to walk this Earth, God, not woman, not man, God! It's murder and using your view points to justify it only justifies it in your deceived mind. God sees the mind AND the heart.
Thank you, I should have said that a long time ago!!!

I cannot believe I spent all that time to persuade someone on the evilness of abortion and they only hunker down and defend it even more. :(
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I am not pro abortion. But I believe that the decision to have an abortion should not be made by government.

I am a person with reason, that sees the suffering of women as something that needs to be addressed with love.
One more thing and I am really hoping I can make it my last.

You are indeed pro-abortion, every post is filled with its ideology.

The decision to have an abortion is indeed being made by the government presently by allowing it and funding it.

The woman is not the victim, it is you that is holding to a false victim ideology, the baby is the victim. the baby torn limb by limb and you defend this remember that, where is your love and mercy for the innocent person.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
107
63
Interesting since Paul says to "flee sexual immorality"
Yes. But what about the woman caught in the act of adultery? John 8:1-11, 5.

V 5, Now Moses in the Law commanded us that such should be stoned:but what sayest thou?

What is your answer?

You are the Pharisee who brings the woman to Jesus to accuse her! With a mind that you are righteous in judgment, while disregarding your own sins.

What does Jesus say?

V 7, "...., He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

V 11, "...., Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

But you are condemning women and girls, casting the first stone in front of Jesus.


There is only one victim in abortion and that is the unborn baby,
That is where you are completely wrong, abortion is a tragedy that makes a victim of everybody involved. Mother, father, baby, everybody.

You are so focused on the tail of the elephant that you keep forgetting the rest of the people involved.


a topic you cannot seem to address is the rights of the unborn child.
Oh yes, the unborn have rights, I totally agree, but the reason that is not being discussed is because you keep repeating the law without any love, mercy, concern, or mention of anyone else involved in the tragedy.

Who has more rights? The mother or the baby?

You talk about rights? What right do you have to tell a woman who was beaten and raped that she must carry the child of that nightmare. You are as cold as ice. Are you RCC?


I am really done now, since your last post is just filled with emotionalism
You mean love and mercy for the women and others involved? Something that you cannot face in the mirror?


and adopted rhetoric from the left.
YOU WISH!

I am just a person who worships Jesus/love, not some radical propaganda, gossip repeater.

A person with love and mercy and reason, in their heart, that begs for mercy for everyone.

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You are being a coward by not answering the questions that I have repeatedly asked you.

Face up to the truth! The consequences of your statements!

Are you a man or a woman?

Let every preacher in the world say what they really mean! Stand behind the pulpit and say what the consequences of making abortion illegal are! Government persecution of women and girls by making them continue to suffer with the sins of men.

WRITE IT PLAINLY, What should be the penalty for a woman or girl who has a self induced miscarriage or abortion? What laws should the government pass?

You won't answer? In the name of Jesus, answer, or carry your ice heart shame until you repent with love and mercy, or until you see Him.

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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
107
63
The last resort of a person who cannot justify what they say, is to call the other person a "leftest."
 

MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
909
252
63
The last resort of a person who cannot justify what they say, is to call the other person a "leftest."
Your mind is deceived from the Leftist rhetoric, and you use our Lord's holy name to try and justify what you believe. Christ Himself said to suffer the little children, forbid them not, to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of God. You cannot justify the slaying of an innocent unborn child, only deceive your mind into thinking that you can.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
107
63
One more thing and I am really hoping I can make it my last.
Give up already?


You are indeed pro-abortion,
No, I am not. I am against abortion. But it should not be completely illegal under all circumstances.


every post is filled with its ideology.
Well, yours is so for rite, that it disappears over the horizon.


The decision to have an abortion is indeed being made by the government presently by allowing it and funding it.
The decision to have an abortion is still being made by the woman, and not the government.

I believe that in China, the government does enforce mandatory government abortions.

You want to give government that kind of power? You are!


The woman is not the victim,
Now you are bordering on true ignorance. Is the father a victim? The grandparents? The sister or brother? The family? Yes, they are all victims, oh, but not the woman?


it is you that is holding to a false victim ideology, the baby is the victim. the baby torn limb by limb and you defend this remember that, where is your love and mercy for the innocent person.
Abortion should be legal, so a woman doesn't have to wait until that point when an embryo turns to be a child.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
107
63
Your mind is deceived from the Leftist rhetoric, and you use our Lord's holy name to try and justify what you believe. Christ Himself said to suffer the little children, forbid them not, to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of God. You cannot justify the slaying of an innocent unborn child, only deceive your mind into thinking that you can.
OK, then you answer the questions,

What should be the penalty by law for a woman who causes herself to miscarriage or have an abortion?

Tell us all about your plan and punishment.

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MichaelOwen

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2017
909
252
63
OK, then you answer the questions,

What should be the penalty by law for a woman who causes herself to miscarriage or have an abortion?

Tell us all about your plan and punishment.

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A miscarriage is a natural reaction of the body, that cannot be helped, an abortion is a physical act! It's not my place to set laws or judgment or punishment....our Lord has already set that up, and people are rebelling from that, especially those on the Left. Read your Bible, it's in there!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
@abcdef

First, lets start with the first innocent victim to receive punishment, the baby.

Why is an innocent child conceived, deserve and is given the death penalty?

Admit you support the death penalty for the child, it is very simple.

That is the topic not anything else.