The Logic of Mark 16:16

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fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#1
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Here is the logic of the verse

IF I am SAVED then I am not DAMNED.
IF I am not DAMNED, then I am SAVED.

SO IF I BELIEVE NOT SHALL I BE DAMNED? YES…
AND THAT IF I BELIEVE SHALL I BE SAVED? YES…
NOW, IF I BELIEVE AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL I BE DAMNED? NO
BUT WHAT IF I BELIEVE AND NOT BAPTIZED SHALL I BE DAMNED? NO.
BUT THEN AGAIN, IF I DO NOT BELIEVE BUT I AM WATER BAPTIZED SHALL I BE DAMNED? YES
THEREFORE, IF I BELIEVE AND EVEN WITHOUT WATER BAPTISM, I WILL NOT BE DAMNED AND I AM SAVED.
 
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RBA238

Guest
#2
There are constant arguments regarding Baptism. The fact remains a person be Water baptized along with the rest of the requirements written, to be saved. Example: Read Acts 8 verses 35-38. Acts 10 verses 43-48 Apostle Peter Commanded Cornelius and members of his house to be Water Baptized. At the very first Christian Service The converts were told to be Water Baptized as well.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
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#3
There are constant arguments regarding Baptism. The fact remains a person be Water baptized along with the rest of the requirements written, to be saved. Example: Read Acts 8 verses 35-38. Acts 10 verses 43-48 Apostle Peter Commanded Cornelius and members of his house to be Water Baptized. At the very first Christian Service The converts were told to be Water Baptized as well.
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What Philip preached according v.35, he preached unto the eunuch about Jesus.
verse 36. The eunuch asked if he needs to be baptized. Notice Philip preached Jesus and the requirement for his baptism is salvation, that is he needed to believe in Christ befor he get baptized, the response of course, the eunuch believed. So it was only after he believed in Christ that he was baptized.

Go back to the logic so you can figure this out...

Thanks
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fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
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#4
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This alone suffice that believing in Christ shall receive remission of sins...is there a need to be baptized after believing, the case in Acts 10 is that there was but ultimately because they were already saved and as act of obeying Christ into the waters of baptism...That was Peter preached[/FONT]
 
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RBA238

Guest
#5
Of Course he had to beleive before he got Water Baptized. I never stated you have to get baptized before you beleive. Would not make any sense to do this. You have me confused with someone else..Thx
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,999
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#6
Amen! Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
R

RBA238

Guest
#7
Wrong...
Why then did Apostle Peter tell us plainly in I Peter 3 verses 20-21 Water Baptism Was Necessary? And why did Jesus tell Nicodemus in John Chapter 3..he had to be Born Again of WATER AND SPIRIT? And why did Jesus bother as our example have John The Baptist Baptize him and The Spirit of God in the form of a Dove ( The Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit) if it was not needed as part of the Salvation Plan for everyone? You need to read it all especially the Following Chapters in Book of Acts where the Church began...Acts Chapter 2, Acts Chapter 8, Acts Chapter 16, Acts Chapter 19, Acts Chapter 10. Please study all those and tell us what errors you see...NADA, NONE!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,999
13,008
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#8
Wrong...
Why then did Apostle Peter tell us plainly in I Peter 3 verses 20-21 Water Baptism Was Necessary?
In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

And why did Jesus tell Nicodemus in John Chapter 3..he had to be Born Again of WATER AND SPIRIT?
Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit." He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds foolish, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or means of becoming born again.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. Living water is not water baptism.

And why did Jesus bother as our example have John The Baptist Baptize him and The Spirit of God in the form of a Dove (The Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit) if it was not needed as part of the Salvation Plan for everyone?
The baptism of Jesus was unique and He had no need to repent. Also, when Jesus came up out of the water, the Spirit of God descended upon Him like a dove and a voice came from heaven saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Did that happen at your baptism?

You need to read it all especially the Following Chapters in Book of Acts where the Church began...Acts Chapter 2, Acts Chapter 8, Acts Chapter 16, Acts Chapter 19, Acts Chapter 10. Please study all those and tell us what errors you see...NADA, NONE!
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

*In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion *when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
927
113
#9
Of Course he had to beleive before he got Water Baptized. I never stated you have to get baptized before you beleive. Would not make any sense to do this. You have me confused with someone else..Thx
Well, what is confusing is there when we tell someone baptism is needed in order to be saved. Salvation is always by faith in Christ. The sequence is :

Believe = root of salvation
Baptism = fruit of salvation
thus
Obedience = growth

Thanks