So that's your point of view based on the Bible. When a teacher told me it is this way I was sure to figure out if he/she was right. First I need to know and see myself to be sure. To be honest I have also had this attitude in church.
And on the forum....
In general.
Our authority is the Bible
I think we do agree on that.
But
I found nowhere in the Bible that the gifts did stop with Paul....or John or with Polycarpus (disciple of John).
Do they baptize at that time? Yes. Do they baptize now? Yes.
Do they have communion at that time? Yes. Do they have communion now? Yes.
Do they speak in tongues than? Yes. Do they speak in tongues now? Yes
I take the Bible seriously, and as my highest authority. So when you can show me
a verse from the Bible that the gifts aren't for now. With the very emphasis on verse(s) from the Bible, not a theory next to it. I will gladly tell you your right.
My thoughts on the "debate the gifts"...
Sadly I see much emotions in a negative way intervening in debates like this. I do not see:
"I cannot believe it, because I never heard of it."
"I cannot believe it, because I think it/the gifts ended with John"
I see this:
"Prove it to me that you had a dream and it was from God? You can't, can't you?"
You know what I think about this.
I must be crazy than....when I myself am a living prove of speaking in tongues and having dreams... (and may I remind in this that I do not role over the floor nor make animal noises or run around crazy). My experiences mostly happen when I am alone with God.
So when I am (to myself) the living, critical prove, that I asked God what those gifts of God are...and I myself did get the gift of speaking in tongues while praying alone in the bedroom, just in the midst of my normal prayer. Than I cannot deny myself. I can't sorry.
Occult?
So lets assume I am not really ok, not kosher.... I am an unstable christian or drink milk instead of ...oh no...sorry we do not drink blood we plead the blood
. In other words, how can one distinguish good from bad. Good fruit from bad fruit. Good Spirit from bad spirits.
Well if one
assumes that the gift of tongues still fits....one can
assume the gift of discern the spirits is there too.
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1 Cor 12:10
So the practical question is.....do I....do we believe this?
Critical thinking.
As I said, I am critical. So I also think how is it, for heavens sake, possible that the gifts in church are nowadays made into a soap-opera that makes me cry....
This is what the bible tells me:
Mat 22:7
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
So what exactly does Jesus tell here? Let me think....: not that there is NO prophecies, not there is NO casting out of devils... He is telling that they had done this in in His name but they where working iniquity and that He never knew them. Don't you think He would warn us for things? O wait He did do that....
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:5 When should be aware of false prophets? Well....Paul mentions wolves too...and he says
after he departs. Act 20:29 I guess.....our time? So there are prophets...hhmmm
Yes, someone can say: but this is about FALSE prophets there is no good one! Who or what says that? Not this verse...or we should this reasoning also apply to this verse:
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Math 24:24
So no prophecy nor Christ than....
I do not say I always do everything 100 percent good, none can say they do
(
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. spr 24:16)
Is prophecy always bad? No
Is it always good? No
Are tongues always bad? No
Are they always good? No
But something being sometimes bad is not a reason to leave it
all behind. I don't throw Christ away because I think there are false Christs....
Biblical measurement.
For me some of the biggest measures in this all are:
Is there order? Because God is a God of order.Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. Mat 25:7
Let all things be done decently and in order.1 Cor 14:40
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. Col2:5
Do people control themselves? (And in this I exclude uncontrolled weeping about sins.)
And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit,Luc 9:42
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:1 Cor 2:4
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 1 Cor 14:28
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.1 Cor 14:31-33
Whom or what is glorified? The gift or....the Giver.And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. Act 4:31
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Act 8:18-21