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M
The only free will belongs to believers. Once we have been purchased from our bondage and slavery to sin we are taken into the servitude to Christ... free from bondage to sin. In Romans 8 and 2 Timothy 2 and 3 (and many other passages) the Lord made clear that He made us free to follow Him, perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works which He foreordained that we should walk in. We have the freedom from condemnation for our sins. Though we may still act on sin (as is our human nature) we are not bound to the sin. This is why Christians have free will.
Without Christ, however, there is no freedom to do anything BUT sin. ''All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags'' apart from those done as a servant to God as a consecrated believer. This means that even when an unbeliever donates to ministry or preaches the Word of God he is sinning (though God will use even these sins for His glory). As it is written in 2 Timothy 2, He created all to be vessels of gold and silver or of clay... unto both honor and dishonor.
All things done will be used for God's glory, for this is the very purpose that all things were created for.
Without Christ, however, there is no freedom to do anything BUT sin. ''All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags'' apart from those done as a servant to God as a consecrated believer. This means that even when an unbeliever donates to ministry or preaches the Word of God he is sinning (though God will use even these sins for His glory). As it is written in 2 Timothy 2, He created all to be vessels of gold and silver or of clay... unto both honor and dishonor.
All things done will be used for God's glory, for this is the very purpose that all things were created for.
M
Two things are clear about God's predestination (or maybe 3).
1. He predestined certain (not all) men to come to Him (Romans 8)
2. He predestined those who come to Him to walk in his light (2 Tim 2 and 3)
3. Tentatively God predestined some to be born unto dishonor (2 Tim 2). Many arguing against predestination claim that God literally would have to create a person to be damned. Why not? We have certain things we are to do; certain things that are forbidden; and many things that are left up to a believer's discretion. Abortion is just one of many evils in this world that mankind chooses to do in their bondage to self-pleasing, self distruction, and sin nature.
God foreordained that certain men should walk with him. God hardens certain men's hearts away from Him. God softens certain men's hearts unto an understanding of Him and unto His service. All is done for God's glory, for that is the very reason for the creation of all things including mankind.
1. He predestined certain (not all) men to come to Him (Romans 8)
2. He predestined those who come to Him to walk in his light (2 Tim 2 and 3)
3. Tentatively God predestined some to be born unto dishonor (2 Tim 2). Many arguing against predestination claim that God literally would have to create a person to be damned. Why not? We have certain things we are to do; certain things that are forbidden; and many things that are left up to a believer's discretion. Abortion is just one of many evils in this world that mankind chooses to do in their bondage to self-pleasing, self distruction, and sin nature.
God foreordained that certain men should walk with him. God hardens certain men's hearts away from Him. God softens certain men's hearts unto an understanding of Him and unto His service. All is done for God's glory, for that is the very reason for the creation of all things including mankind.
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The bible teaches there is sheol/hades and neither one is a hellfire. Those words were translated as hell in our bible and given an entire new definition. Its just the realm of the dead, the grave. Its where all dead bodies go and we are going to die and go there because the wages of sin is death. that death is our physical death from earth. But there is more to come after we are resurrected from that death in the day of the Lord. So since sheol was translated hell and given an entire new definition, ya there is a hell but there is no hellfire. the definition of hell is incorrectly taught. do as God said ...seek and you shall find. Then you will see the truth.
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H
To texascowgirl, you have some great trues, one is, "Man has never had a free will". Others have given some great posts. to jandian I would say, man has never been "independent" of God. Adam and eve together represent "mankind'. But Man is the head of woman. The head of man is Christ; but man and woman have never been indepentent of each other, we are all interdependent. But if we becomes someones codependent ,then we are in hot water.
to all, Concerning salvation, please keep two key words in mind, "Impart" and "Impute". When God gives us birth in to His family, He "imparts" a new nature into us; Like a blood transfusion; But when God forgives us, He
"imputes" christ's righteousness to our account in Heaven. The new birth is not Imputed to us, the new birth is Imparted to us. The difference is between a heart transplant operation and drink of fine wine. The wine can knock out the pain for a while but the Heart transplant will save our life. Salvation is a new life style and we can now be "drunk" with the Spirit and not with the wine of human achievements, free will, and the sense of worth. No sinner "deserves" salvation, it is the gift of GRACE. God elects some ,Out of "the same lump" Rom.9:21 of sinful humanity; God picks, indiscriminately, only by LOVE, some for salvation and leaves the rest for damnation. We must never "rationalize" away the Bible truth; there are no "contradictions" in the Bible. Love to all Hoffco
to all, Concerning salvation, please keep two key words in mind, "Impart" and "Impute". When God gives us birth in to His family, He "imparts" a new nature into us; Like a blood transfusion; But when God forgives us, He
"imputes" christ's righteousness to our account in Heaven. The new birth is not Imputed to us, the new birth is Imparted to us. The difference is between a heart transplant operation and drink of fine wine. The wine can knock out the pain for a while but the Heart transplant will save our life. Salvation is a new life style and we can now be "drunk" with the Spirit and not with the wine of human achievements, free will, and the sense of worth. No sinner "deserves" salvation, it is the gift of GRACE. God elects some ,Out of "the same lump" Rom.9:21 of sinful humanity; God picks, indiscriminately, only by LOVE, some for salvation and leaves the rest for damnation. We must never "rationalize" away the Bible truth; there are no "contradictions" in the Bible. Love to all Hoffco
We will agree to disagree on this one...............as for me and my family, we believe John 3:16 is Gospel Truth.....God bless and keep you and yours.
(edited to add) In #3, you CREDIT mankind with having free will, so how exactly is that possible when you believe in predestination?
QUOTE: Abortion is just one of many evils in this world that mankind chooses to do in their bondage to self-pleasing, self distruction, and sin nature. END QUOTE.............How can mankind possibly "choose" to do anything, they were PREDESTINED to do everything they do according to predestinationists.................
(edited to add) In #3, you CREDIT mankind with having free will, so how exactly is that possible when you believe in predestination?
QUOTE: Abortion is just one of many evils in this world that mankind chooses to do in their bondage to self-pleasing, self distruction, and sin nature. END QUOTE.............How can mankind possibly "choose" to do anything, they were PREDESTINED to do everything they do according to predestinationists.................
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The rich man was not in a hellfire. There is no such thing. The rich man was repenting in the second death judgment and we are all going to be there too. He was being changed from his sinful nature to his new sinfree nature. People will not take a half a second to see where the word hell in our bible came from but if they did they would feel much shame for teaching against their own savior. If he were in a literal fire do you think he could calmly ask for water for his tongue. don't you think he would have asked for a lake instead to jump in.
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don't you think he would have asked for a lake instead to jump in.
Im gonna take the above comment back and say if he was on a literal fire he wouldn't have been able to talk at all. he would have burned to ashes with no way to talk. His tongue wouldn't have needed water becuaes he wouldn't have had one. And also note that a real fire can only burn literal physical things. when we are raised to judgment we wont have a physical body to burn but a spiritual one and a literal fire cannot burn anything spiritual.
Im gonna take the above comment back and say if he was on a literal fire he wouldn't have been able to talk at all. he would have burned to ashes with no way to talk. His tongue wouldn't have needed water becuaes he wouldn't have had one. And also note that a real fire can only burn literal physical things. when we are raised to judgment we wont have a physical body to burn but a spiritual one and a literal fire cannot burn anything spiritual.
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As I read Lk.16:20-31, I see nothing that is unbelievable about it, as a literal, real story of life and death as seen by and told to me by almighty God in the flesh. Why is it that a believer can be so deceived by the Devil, to call Jesus a lair? We are not talking about the laws of this natural world ; We are hearing a first hand story from, God all mighty, about the spirit world. Unless you can prove Jesus wrong, then ,I think we better receive Jesus words as Gospel. Let us not be overcome with darkness, but let the light of Jesus deliver us from the darkness. Hoffco
Hoffco, in not calling God a liar, im calling man a liar. Man misinterrupts scriptures. If you think about what I said above you can see the hellfire makes no sense whatsoever. And there are tons of ways to prove its a false teaching. Part of the problem is man refuses to seek the truth starting with what hell really is. People just blindly believe their preacher. God said try the spirit. Try your preachers word against the bible. The fire is not a literal fire and man is saved by that fire
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Hebrews 12:23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 .) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 .) See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 .) Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 .) And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 .) Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 .) For our God is a consuming fire.
.............all things are possible with our Lord God..........how can we even try to comprehend all He can do?...........
24 .) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25 .) See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 .) Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 .) And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 .) Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 .) For our God is a consuming fire.
.............all things are possible with our Lord God..........how can we even try to comprehend all He can do?...........
Yes God is a consuming fire. There are also verses claiming his eyes are as a fire or like fire and others as well. Jesus Is a MAN. He is not a literal physical fire. He is a man...a man that is very powerful. And it is that fire or his powerful words that SAVES MAN. It is even in the verse that man may suffer loss yes....yes his sinful nature, that's what he loses then it continues to say, but he himself shall be saved, HOW? YET SO AS BY FIRE. His words are sharper than a two edge sword....... Jesus is a man, not a literal physical fire and he saves man. Jesus is savior of how many....The world, not a few but the world.
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Jesus Christ is not God the father. There is only one God. God works through a man, Jesus Christ. Refer to my thread called the word was God. It on like page 4 now I think. The scriputers tell us Jesus is a man. Jesus Christ even said his father is greater than him. He also said he can do nothing of himself, just as we cant. Jesus stated why do you call me good, there is but one good and that's God,[ his father]. Jesus is simply doing the words of his father, he is not his father. God the father IS NOT A MAN
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