Holiness

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

Woke up very early this morning because I have these questions bothering me.
Holiness. What is this? How to be holy? Though the blood of Yeshua do I automatically become holy? What does the bible teach?

I knew it's somewhere in 1 Peter so I turned to that verse which says "Be holy, because I am holy." Not bad I thought to myself, I still remember a thing or two.
Then I read on.
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."

Looks to me it involves my involvement because it says "be holy in all you do".

He said "for it is written" so I checked the bottom of the page of my NIV bible which read Lev. 11:44,45; 19:2, 20:7.

I knew there's something wrong with NIV!

Is there anywhere else in the bible which teaches holiness?

Disclaimer: I don't eat what the OT listed as unclean but that's not the purpose of this post to promote my preference for food.

ji · Apr 5, 2014

chubbena said:

what you showed as error is not the real prob with niv....
Its different.Use KJV 1611 with an Old English Dictionary.

Achieving Holiness of God is a Struggle and a joint effort taken by man's decision and then fully under God's Grace.
Book of Romans can guide you to a better explanation on how to strive for God's Holiness when our carnal desires are against the Spiritual desires(to be with God).

God Bless

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

ji said:

Certainly I believe holiness is not something granted.
The letter to the Romans, although gave a guide, does not give a definition of holiness explicitly. So what is holiness? Is it totally detached from what He said in Leviticus?

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

Leviticus 19
The Lord said to Moses,[SUP] [/SUP]“Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: ‘Be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy.[SUP] [/SUP]“‘Each of you must respect your mother and father, and you must observe my Sabbaths. I am the Lord your God.
“‘Do not turn to idols or make metal gods for yourselves. I am the Lord your God.
“‘When you sacrifice a fellowship offering to the Lord, sacrifice it in such a way that it will be accepted on your behalf. It shall be eaten on the day you sacrifice it or on the next day; anything left over until the third day must be burned up. If any of it is eaten on the third day, it is impure and will not be accepted. Whoever eats it will be held responsible because they have desecrated what is holy to the Lord; they must be cut off from their people. “‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God.“‘Do not steal. “‘Do not lie. “‘Do not deceive one another. “‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.
“‘Do not defraud or rob your neighbor. “‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight. “‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.
“‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.[SUP] [/SUP]“‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people. “‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.
“‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.[SUP] [/SUP]“‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.
“‘Keep my decrees. “‘Do not mate different kinds of animals. “‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. “‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.[SUP] [/SUP]“‘If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment.[SUP] [/SUP]Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. [SUP] [/SUP]The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the tent of meeting for a guilt offering to the Lord. With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the Lord for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven. “‘When you enter the land and plant any kind of fruit tree, regard its fruit as forbidden.[SUP] [/SUP]For three years you are to consider it forbidden; it must not be eaten. In the fourth year all its fruit will be holy, an offering of praise to the Lord. But in the fifth year you may eat its fruit. In this way your harvest will be increased. I am the Lord your God.
“‘Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it. “‘Do not practice divination or seek omens.[SUP] [/SUP]“‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.[SUP] [/SUP]“‘Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord.
“‘Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness. “‘Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the Lord.
“‘Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.
“‘Stand up in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly and revere your God. I am the Lord.
“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
"‘Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity. Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah[SUP] [/SUP]and an honest hin.[SUP] [/SUP]I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt.
"‘Keep all my decrees and all my laws and follow them. I am the Lord.’”

Agricola · Apr 5, 2014

SO this is really a deceptive thread about King James 1611 being the perfect Bible?

posthuman · Apr 5, 2014

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
(Romans 13:14)

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile
(Romans 3:22)

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Galatians 3:26-28)

we have no holiness apart from Christ.
our righteousness is not by following after the law or by doing great works - it is completely by looking to Jesus and seeking after the life in Him through the salvation His grace has provided.

following the old covenant given to the Hebrews is approached in two ways:
1, in order to establish yourself as righteous.
2, through love, because we want to please God and these things were given to Israel before the law of Grace, so we know they are acceptable.

if you follow the old law thinking it will commend you to God, it doesn't. if you follow Christ and you do these things because your heart rejoices over them, it is righteousness by faith.

they aren't required. what is holy before God is what is done for the sake of His name, and for His Son - the old law isn't wrong, but it's not sufficient to itself - focus on your heart and not your hands, and your hands will follow after your heart - and thank God alone who changes the hearts of men!

ji · Apr 5, 2014

chubbena said:

we live in Grace period.So Jesus made a way for our Holiness to Stand before God in end..
And we are to follow Jesus and strive to get close to the Image of Christ.Aims have changed in NT.In OT,there was only a need to follow the commands and laws literally,but not Spiritually.
In NT,the 'Spiritually' only matters,because the 'Sons of God-the New Creation' is to be manifested in us when Christ Returns to Gather His Saints.Physically is not the real problem in NT.The standards to follow became Higher.So as we Live in Grace Period the Holiness we are to Achieve is Christ's.Its not literal self righteous holiness.Its Holiness by the Grace of God.Its all about how much we Love Jesus,because God is going to measure our hearts,not looks and literal ways.This is the difference.
And that is not an option to live like we want,but remaining or struggling to remain in Godly standards with a Loving Heart.
If it feels tough,ask God..He can change us...
So if there are things that you feel you are weak you have to submit to God so He can make you 'White as Snow' in that area.And we will become Holy if we truly Love Jesus and we will become Over comers in Jesus.The standard is kept in God for each individual based on their Calling and where they are going to be in Eternity.
There are different dwelling places like New Earth,New Heaven and 'New Jerusalem and Zion'.

If we follow God(Jesus) removing all evil and then go condemning others instead of living compassionately(with Godliness,Humbly) then our efforts are in vain.God is Love.

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" - Hebrews 12:14 KJV

Here is something to strive for it..

"If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." - Romans 12:18 KJV

In short,we have to Obey the various Doctrines and Customs Christ gave us and also Live with a Peaceful Heart.If circumstances are not allowing then is Romans 12:18 KJV coming in application.Its the same with everything in NT.And we must also forgive others just as Christ forgives us.And that will lead to God's Holiness covering us and we will literally and Spiritually overcome this world.

God Bless

ji · Apr 5, 2014

Agricola said:

how come?....

JesusLives · Apr 5, 2014

I would think that holiness is the Holy Spirit living in us and working through us to will and to do God's pleasure. We are saved by Grace it is a gift of God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So when we come to Him Jesus robe of righteousness covers us and God sees Jesus perfection covering us. Jesus makes us Holy before God. Because we love God we trust and obey Him and have faith that He who began a good work will keep on to completion.

As humans we will never be holy but with Holy Spirit dwelling in us Jesus makes us holy.

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

Agricola said:

You didn't see the rolling eyes did you?

breno785au · Apr 5, 2014

You are made holy through the blood of Jesus, now renew your mind (Thoughts feelings and will) through the Spirit...in other words line your soul up to the truth of the Spirit.

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

posthuman said:

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
(Romans 13:14)

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile
(Romans 3:22)

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Galatians 3:26-28)

we have no holiness apart from Christ.
our righteousness is not by following after the law or by doing great works - it is completely by looking to Jesus and seeking after the life in Him through the salvation His grace has provided.

following the old covenant given to the Hebrews is approached in two ways:
1, in order to establish yourself as righteous.
2, through love, because we want to please God and these things were given to Israel before the law of Grace, so we know they are acceptable.

if you follow the old law thinking it will commend you to God, it doesn't. if you follow Christ and you do these things because your heart rejoices over them, it is righteousness by faith.

they aren't required. what is holy before God is what is done for the sake of His name, and for His Son - the old law isn't wrong, but it's not sufficient to itself - focus on your heart and not your hands, and your hands will follow after your heart - and thank God alone who changes the hearts of men!

I agree that righteousness is through Christ alone but my question is on holiness.
Peter said "'for it is written' be holy, because I am holy." Did he pull the verse out of context in the OT and did not expect his readers to examine like the Bereans did?
Does holiness equal to righteousness?

posthuman · Apr 5, 2014

as far as i know, the word "holy" literally means "set apart" for a purpose, like earmarked.

for example if i have several kinds of paint, but one is a match to a particular room in my house, and i want to paint a bat habitat, when i go to the paint shelf i won't use the one can, because it is 'holy unto the livingroom' (pardon the loose use of the word for the sake of analogy haha) - and when i need to touch up the livingroom wall of scuffs, i won't use another paint, because there is a paint for that purpose and no other purpose.

so the way i understand that command is that we need to be 'set apart' for the purposes of God, whatever that entails. & we're only worthy of those purposes by the grace wrought in us of Christ

we're to be that paint that isn't used for other projects, but for God's building program.

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

ji said:

I agree we live in the dispensation of grace but weren't all dispensations in the past were of grace also? The psalmist praised and understood much more grace of God than many of us in the NT didn't he?
Weren't the Israelites to obey God spiritually? To obey is better than animal sacrifices? Circumcise the heart rather than the foreskin?
Yes godly standard is to follow and is actually higher than previously written in OT don't you agree and is actually easier because He's done it don't you think?
You quoted Hebrews 12:14 and you quoted it well - to live in peace with all men and to be holy. However, to live in peace does not equal to be holy. To live in peace with all men is ideal but there is time for war also. I
You are right in quoting Romans 12:18. If not for one war we probably wouldn't have the luxury to read the bible.
The question remains. T
here are, some would say were, clear definitions for holiness in OT. Is there clear definitions for holiness in NT?
Some would say, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit one should know what holiness is without having to refer to the letter. Now would the Holy Spirit contradict with the Word of God in the past?

posthuman · Apr 5, 2014

chubbena said:

isn't the beatitudes - the sermon on the mount - an example of NT definitions for holiness?
meekness, purity of heart, an hunger & thirst for righteousness, peacemaking, a contrite spirit - just as the prophet wrote:

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good;
and what doth the LORD require of thee,
but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
(Micah 6:8)

Christ taught holiness from within, not from the outside in. compare what he said to the pharisees - cleaning the outside of the pot without regard for the inside (Luke 11:39) - to how David anguished in his heart in the Psalms vs. the cold rigor of the Levitical code.

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

JesusLives said:

That begs the same question why Peter said what he said in my OP.
On the other hand, no Christian would say he does not have the Holy Spirit. It's His promise for all the followers after all. However, He also warned directly and through His disciples that there will be false prophets, false teachers and false spirit.
That begs another question: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God in 1 John 4:2 - what is this verse about? No Christian that I know of (I admit I don't know too many) does not acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and yet to be realistic we can have very different understandings in the Word of God. Why?
The way I understand 1 John 4:2 is, Every spirit that acknowledges that the Word, who has spoken since the beginning of the world, has come in the flesh is from God - given John also wrote the 4th gospel which begins with in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In other words, this Word who came in the flesh spoke the same Word who has spoken since the beginning of the world. The Bereans probably knew that and thus examine the scripture to see if what Paul said was true.

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

breno785au said:

Good one from Hebrew 10:10 but what is the definition of holiness in NT?

breno785au · Apr 5, 2014

chubbena said:

Are you looking for a practical definition like, what does it look like in a persons life? Or dictionary definition?

Alfonz6463 · Apr 5, 2014

chubbena said:

Not being a Bible scholar, I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and possibly show my ignorance, but...

Holy means to be set aside, separate from the world. When God brought Israel out of Egypt, He provided instructions on how they were to be Holy. This, of course, led to the Law, which through Israel, God demonstrated that it is impossible for man and woman to live absolutely pure, holy lives. As Paul wrote, "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23

We are saved through grace, by the blood of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. We are instructed to live "holy," which leads me to believe that we are not to live as the world does. I don't think that means to follow the Law, either, though. Paul wrote of the folly of trying to live by the law.

So, we are to live separate lives from the world, not following its whims and predilections. I think that means to let His love surround us and be in us, to act on love.

Can we be holy? Not in the sense that God is holy. But we can be holy in the sense that we don't follow the ways of the world.

chubbena · Apr 5, 2014

posthuman said:

Tell me about painting. There is a portion of my living room underwent repair. I wanted to repaint with the existing color. Wife wanted new color which means repainting the whole room with a new color. We are undecided.
Back to the topic. Did He change paint for the living room or did He change the way the paint is applied?

Holiness

chubbena

Guest

ji

Guest

chubbena

Guest

chubbena

Guest

Agricola

Senior Member

posthuman

Senior Member

ji

Guest

ji

Guest

JesusLives

Senior Member

chubbena

Guest

breno785au

Senior Member

chubbena

Guest

posthuman

Senior Member

chubbena

Guest

posthuman

Senior Member

chubbena

Guest

chubbena

Guest

breno785au

Senior Member

Alfonz6463

Guest

chubbena

Guest