BEWARE the Lawkeepers

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psychomom

Guest
Please go to scripture and read all about the giving of the Mosaic Covenant. It does not say that the only way we are blessed by keeping the law is to obey every law. That is the only way we can be saved by the law. The Mosaic Covenant has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation is only through the blood of Christ, it was always so. The Mosaic Covenant was only given after the Hebrews were delivered from slavery, symbolic of Christ saving us from the slavery of our sins, it wasn't given before they were freed, and is only for those who are freed through Christ. Please go to all scripture about this covenant and check me out.
yes, Ma'am, i have read it many times.
i understand the symbolism.

are you saying the Mosaic covenant is given to those whom God has gifted with salvation in Christ?
:confused:
 
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psychomom

Guest
If you are listening to God you are careful not to focus on any one thing of God. If you want to focus, go to what God says in the most important instructions He gives us, to love the Lord and others. God is a God of balance, focusing takes us out of balance. Christians don't focus, they listen to all of God. They do not even focus on keeping the law out of their life. God is a complete God with so many layers of things for us to understand that we could spend a lifetime learning of him through scripture and still not completely understand, so if we focus on any one thing we are missing out on another.
God is a God of balance?

please would you show me that in scripture?

i'm not ever, ever saying we should not learn from all of the Bible, btw. :)

 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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You have confessed that the law is good. Yet you contradict this by saying its wrong to teach to keep it.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The anti-Christ is referred to as the "lawless one." He does not regard the law.

Now if a person has come to know Yeshua, will he obey the law, or be lawless.

For once we have known the grace of Yeshua and deliberately sin, we are recrucifying Him.

Now, I believe Yeshua, and, YES, I have succumbed to sin since I know Him, but I do not sin deliberately, for I have always observed His law since I have had power of reason thereof. I live in grace, and I remain in grace because I honor God by obeying Him.

Ask youself, do you honor Yeshua by your obedience? If you want to obey Him, knowing you are not perfect, nor is any man, then you will do what He has shown is His will, obey His law. Grace does the rest as long as you believe Yeshua is your Way, your Truth, and your Life. He is Mine forever, Praise Yeshua, amen.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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The only way to "keep the Sabbath" is according to how God commanded the children of Israel to do so....according to Scripture (Exodus 20:10; 31:12-16; 35:3; Numbers 15:32-36; Jeremiah 17:21)
Well, I think there's a lot of activities allowable in those verses... Also, of course, it's legal to do good on the sabbath... A Christian would only want to do good any day of the week... So pretty much any Christian activity... So, it's just a matter of following the leading of the spirit to see which Christian activity to do anytime... Grace to you!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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How does the law work in us? When Yeshua enters to dwell in us,
His will, that is, His person, must increase, while our will, our person, must decrease.
May Jesus increase in us all, for when we are surely decreased we will be just as He, amen. Praise Jesus, Yeshua, amen.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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Legalism Oxford Dictionary:
Theology
Adherence to moral law rather than to personal religious faith:stress obedience apart from faith and you produce legalism

notice the word "rather" no one here is putting law over faith. but rather they say that Faith in Gods grace changes us.

notice that legalism is obedience "apart" from Faith. We do not teach obedience to be saved but rather that Faith in Jesus and His Grace bring forth the fruit of Obedience.

We teach Faith and obedience.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hear what Paul teaches on this question. If he does the very thing he hates, it seems there is. Anything that overcomes one after one believe Yeshua is not willful according to what Paul teaches.

thats odd. He says it comes from his flesh (which is self)

so why are you excusing your sin and judging everyone elses?
 
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haz

Guest
Thanx for your time anyhow haz.

I think the difference is you see Christ vs law.

I see Christ in the law. The two are not two but one.
No, you misunderstand me.

I see the issue is grace verses works of the law.

As for Christ and the law, we see they are linked as described in Rom 7:22.
For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man (Christ in us)

The Christian's "inward man" is Christ in us. It is Christ who has met the requirements of keeping the law perfectly as he delights after the law of God.

Praise God our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
Thus we see that when we believe on Jesus, it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

Sadly this is what legalists deny through their righteousness by works of the law, Tit 1:16.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Where did you find such a thin blade as to split that hair? Switzerland? The flesh is what causes anyone to succumb to sin, you know this. Now address the OP and the replies.



thats odd. He says it comes from his flesh (which is self)

so why are you excusing your sin and judging everyone elses?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No, I don't think I need the law to make me righteous, nor have I said ANYTHING like that.

And just because the schoolmaster has done its job doesn't mean you don't use the things it's taught you. Once you learn Algebra and move into Calculus doesn't mean you stop using what you learned in Algebra. You have a different goal while doing Calculus, but you still intentionally go through the steps learned in Algebra.

so you have to keep learning the law? the schoomasters job is never done?

Sorry but paul disagrees.

Yes, I know algebra. I don't keep GOING back to it. Thats the difference.

The law will not make you moral (righteous) it can;t, if you think it can. you have problems. (and no, I am not talking righteous as in saved)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Please quote the verses from the original law that state this. Please show me why God said He gave the Law. Show us some verses from the first 5 books of the Bible that show why God gave the law.
I posted it. Paul quoted it. and explained it.

if you can't listen. thats not my problem.

if you think focusing on the words do not covet, or have any idles before God is going to help you stop sin, you will find out one day how wrong you were.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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...as for me everyday is rest, thanks to Christ whom is my sabbath rest; that I rest in while I work or not. everyday and am being taught this everyday as I die to me daily to see the new life in Spirit and truth, thanks to Christ for all to stop worry, stress ans unbelief in God, where we can daily enter God's courts with praise and thanksgiving as King David so eloquently said in Psalms 100:4, as this is waht he saw coming in the future to be by Christ's finished work for us to receive new life in Spirit and truth and able to walk in the light as in 1 Cor 13:4-7
Just what I see that has caused me to rest by trust
Amen! I think that's an excellent way to keep the sabbath... Grace to all!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I wonder why it is that when all else fails, when scripture is discussed, that those who cannot answer with scripture answer with personal judgments they are not entitled to make? We are discussing what scripture says, not my personal failings. Would you like this post to switch to the personal strivings we all do? Are you a psychiatrist? If this thread is for that, I have a lot of failings I could share, would you like to hear them all? I need someone to listen.
No, we are not discussing scripture. You posted no scripture in your response. Now your going to go to this ad hominem?

Your the one that said you need to continue to learn the law AFTER you were saved.

typical though. I should have expected this type of response. Sad, so sad.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Thank you EG for putting my mind and heart more firmly on the subject, not that I had answered improperly, but because of your blade, it occurs to me that it is not our spirit that succumbs to sin, not that I ever thought it was, but again, I just stress it is when the flesh is overcome. Everyone should remember this, and act upon it daily. Resist Satan and he will flee from you, and when it proves too much for you, go the the Lamb; He is our Hero, our Champion, our Salvation, our All, amen.
 
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I have a hard time picturing Paul saying "it is now ok to kill and steal, the law of God is done away with". Lol.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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No one has judged anyone here except you. Reread and find condemnation from my part. I think you are grasping at straws in a hurricane. I forgive you, but do not make a practice of this. Judge not lest you be judged, for the judgment you mete out will come back upon your own head. God bless you with His love, amen.

The anti-Christ is referred to as the "lawless one." He does not regard the law.

Now if a person has come to know Yeshua, will he obey the law, or be lawless.

For once we have known the grace of Yeshua and deliberately sin, we are recrucifying Him.

Now, I believe Yeshua, and, YES, I have succumbed to sin since I know Him, but I do not sin deliberately, for I have always observed His law since I have had power of reason thereof. I live in grace, and I remain in grace because I honor God by obeying Him.

Ask youself, do you honor Yeshua by your obedience? If you want to obey Him, knowing you are not perfect, nor is any man, then you will do what He has shown is His will, obey His law. Grace does the rest as long as you believe Yeshua is your Way, your Truth, and your Life. He is Mine forever, Praise Yeshua, amen.

thats odd. He says it comes from his flesh (which is self)

so why are you excusing your sin and judging everyone elses?
 
H

haz

Guest
You have confessed that the law is good. Yet you contradict this by saying its wrong to teach to keep it.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Actually we declare what scripture declares, that by works of the law no man will be saved.
Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

As for James 4:17, you err by assuming "good" means obeying the law.
Consider the context of James 4 to see what it means by "good".

Firstly, note that it addresses spiritual adulterers, in adultery with Hagar (symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).
James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

This is confirmed by James 4:12
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

And note the salvation call to these legalists/unbelievers.
James 4:7,8
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

James 4 is addressing legalists/unbelievers.

Scripture shows us that to do good is to believe on Jesus. The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" did good. He believed on Jesus.

Note also that unbelief in Jesus is the sin the world is convicted of. Unbelief is doing bad.
John 16:8,9
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me

Hence we see from the context of James 4 that doing "good" is referring to believing on Jesus.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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so you have to keep learning the law? the schoomasters job is never done?


Sorry but paul disagrees.

Yes, I know algebra. I don't keep GOING back to it. Thats the difference.

The law will not make you moral (righteous) it can;t, if you think it can. you have problems. (and no, I am not talking righteous as in saved)
I said you have to keep using algebra to help you in calculus.
And no, I don't think the law itself makes you morally righteous. God uses the law to show us the proper way to live.

Originally Posted by KohenMatt

Please quote the verses from the original law that state this. Please show me why God said He gave the Law. Show us some verses from the first 5 books of the Bible that show why God gave the law.

I posted it. Paul quoted it. and explained it.

if you can't listen. thats not my problem.
No, you haven't posted it. All you have been doing is quoting Paul, and you gave just 1 verse from the Law talking about the curses.

You have refused to quote any verses about when God gave the law and why He did. You have refused to provide any scriptures about whether God offered blessings to Israel for keeping the law.

If we're going to talk about a Christian's relationship to the law, then we should look at what the law actually says and go from there.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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That is what we are asked to do. So does that mean that you tell the Lord you will go this far in rest and absolutely no further, you refuse to make a day special based on these things you actually do?

Do you think the Lord has no right to also ask you to honor a Sabbath because He asks these things? God asks you to work for six days, is that also asking too much?
My take is that God wants us to be available to do his work seven days a week... Also to consider the birds of the air... Grace to all!