Losing your salvation

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Ash_JFF

Guest
#41
Ash_JFF,

I can not emphasize enough how important it is to have grace in our thinking and to have our hearts established in grace / Heb 13:9. If we are saved by grace and we are to grow in grace / 2Pt 3:18, then grace must be pretty important to God and to the believer. Grace has always been undeserved favor from God. The only one that God is unable to give grace to, is a person filled with pride / James 4:6, 1Pt 5:5, but if they humble themselves, God will give them grace. The person that believes they can lose their salvation is someone who has never been built up in the word and Spirit of grace / Acts 20:32, Col 3:16. The word that we preach and speak to one another must be grace, so that the hearer is edified and ministered to / Eph 4:29. There is nothing edifying when you speak and teach things that get people to lose hope in the salvation they received by grace through Christ. That is a form of slander against the finished work of Jesus Christ and the blood that was shed for the remission of sins.

There is a song that goes like this, 'There's nothing more that I can do for Jesus did it all, for we are complete in Him'. Jesus said while he was on the cross having taken all our sins upon His body, 'It is finished' / John 19:30. When we believed we were placed in Christ, hid with Christ in God and we are complete in Him / Col 2:10, 3:3, Eph 2:13. This is our position in Christ, which is (locative of sphere) meaning that we can not be removed from a set position that has been sealed / Eph 1:13,14, 4:30. In this position we have not been given a spirit of fear but a spirit of power, of love and a sound mind / 2Tim 1:7.

Fear is what dominates the mind and emotions of those that believe their salvation can be lost. Some project an attitude of holiness but do not understand the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. Those that teach this continue to put others in bondage again to fear / Rom 8:15, Heb 2:15 and they cause division and strife because they live contrary to what the grace of God teaches us / Titus 2:11,12. The strength of sin is in the law / 1Cor 15:56, so the law has no power to teach us how to live / Gal 3:24, but the grace of God does. If we lived by the law and we failed the law, the law would condemn us as transgressors / James 2:9,10. But we are not under the law but under grace / Rom 6:14, so if sin abounds grace abounds much more toward us to keep us from continuing in sin / Rom 5:20,21, Rom 6:15.

We are in Christ (86 times in the book of Ephesians) and because of being placed their by God through grace there is no condemnation / Rom 8:1. In this verse the last part was added in the KJV because of verse 4 in Rom 8, but the original manuscripts do not include that. The last part of that verse has been used by many to put a condition upon 'no condemnation'. Unfortunately, the KJV translated it incorrectly in this case and should have left it off and could have translated Rom 8:1 in just two words, NO CONDEMNATION, because it is a continuation of chapter 7. However, if you understand your position in Christ you have no problem with the KJV even as it is written, because there is no conditional clause in that verse except being in Christ.

Wow, thanks!
 
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Ash_JFF

Guest
#42
I want people to know the truth of what the grace of God is. The grace of God is the enabling through the infilling of the Holy Spirit to serve God as we should not a free pass to sin.

Hold on now, no one is saying anything about a free pass for sin. There is no free pass. Jesus took care of sin at the cross. It has been paid for. Yes, we still sin but the consecuences of it has been dealt with by the blood of Jesus. God, changes our hearts to be like him. We will never stop sinning but we can have confidence that when we die, God will accept us on the basis on the blood of Jesus and not how many times we "have to ask to be saved again."

i can just imagine how sad Jesus is toward you. He died ressurected for you and you think his sacrifice wasn't enough to cover every sin in your whole life - your sinful nature itself. What you are saying is from Satan himself. You are trying to put salvation in our hands and not Gods. God know no matter how many times we "ask for salvation" (if it is possible to lose your salvation which its not) we can't say it enough. We are born into sin. What are you going to do? Ask to be saved with every breath you take? Even that will not be enough. What if you die in between breaths. Sucks for you.
 
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Ash_JFF

Guest
#44
Thaddeus you've twisted that scripture about being saved by fire without really understanding the context. You and others suppose this means a person can live however they want even lose faith and stil be saved. Wrong! This verse supports the view that you can lose your salvation, because it talks about people getting in by the skin of their teeth. Scripture teaches you can be fully saved, barely saved, or not saved at all. Note it assumes the person still has faith in Christ, they still have laid the foundation. It doesn't in any way support an idea that a person is saved no matter what they do. Rather it teaches the opposite - that a person may just scrape in, and suppose they lose the foundation as well, are they still saved? Of course not. This one little verse you continually quote to support this false doctrine does not cancel out the many other scriptures about apostasy such as in Hebrews.

The very next verse puts a nail into the OSAS coffin:

1Co 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God shall destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.

In other words, if God destroys him, he shall not be saved at all, not by fire as in verse 15.
We are the temple of God and we defile it every day. God would destroy us but he can't because we are covered by Grace - the blood of Jesus.

I am not saying that we can live however we want to. You are missing that if we truly repented and asked Jesus to forgive us and save us then we are saved forever. A part of being saved is folowing Jesus - his character and actions. That means we are to be like him. We may fall at times but that no means we have lost our salvation.

Even the devil believes that Jesus saves. Salvation is based on grace that is based on the blood of Jesus. Then we strive to be like him.

If anyone believes then just does whatever they want to because they think they have a free pass - i doubt that they were saved to begin with.
 
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Ash_JFF

Guest
#45
John Doe is “saved” at age eight and then rapes and murders dozens of women.

Mary Smith is never “saved,” but devotes her life to obeying the Lord’s commandments.

Which person is more likely to go to heaven?

I have to wonder is John doe was saved to begin with if he was goin to to that. When we are saved God changes our hearts and desires so we don't wan tot anything like that.

Mary smith is going to hell. We are born into sin. Even if we obey all but one commandment we are going to hell without the blood of Jesus. Noone has obey this commandment:" Obey the Lord with all your heart mind and soul". Forgot the reference to that verse - it is somewhere in Matthew. I'm in school right now and I don't have my Bible with me.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#46
I have a coworker in her early 50's that believes that you can lose your salvation and you must ask to be saved again and again. I told her that when we are saved we are sealed by the Holy Spirit and we cannot be unsaved. She thinks that if we are saved once and nothing we can do can change that then that will give us a 'free pass" to do all kinds of evil. I told her that God changes our hearts when we get saved and that we don't want to do sinful stuff anymore though we may mess up at times.

I also told her that believing that way means that she is saying that God is not powerful enough to save you the first time. She says she is not saying that.

We are born with a sinful nature. Asking to be saved every second of the day will not help if we can lose our salvation. Believing that way puts the salvation part in our hands and we can't save ourselves. Only God can. Jesus died once to bring salvation once. Once saved, know one can pluck us out of God's hands.

I am only a college student so it is hard for her to listen to what I have to say when she has been taught that since she was born and also taught that to her two grown daughters. Her husband also believes that way.

If you guys could help, it would be great if I could get a lot of scripture to back up what I am saying.
I could keep the references with me the next time we talk about it.

Thanks
I stand between the two positions. I believe that you can reject your relationship with God. I don't believe that you can do so easily. It sounds like your friend is walking in constant fear. And you are right, we cannot be plucked out of His hands.
 
Nov 21, 2009
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#47
Once saved always saved is true. Once you believe in Jesus alone for salvation you are in heaven no matter what happens. Anyone who thinks they can leave salvation probably isn't saved. It would be salvation if you had to "renew" it.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#48
We are the temple of God and we defile it every day. God would destroy us but he can't because we are covered by Grace - the blood of Jesus.
We shouldn't defile it every day, no way. How can someone who claims to be a Christian say such a thing.
 
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Jan 8, 2009
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#49
Here's what the Amplified has to say about your strange interpretation.

1Cor 13:10-17

10 According to the grace (the special endowment for my task) of God bestowed on me, like a skillful architect and master builder I laid [the] foundation, and now another [man] is building upon it. But let each [man] be careful how he builds upon it,
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid, which is Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
12 But if anyone builds upon the Foundation, whether it be with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 The work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known (shown for what it is); for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done.
14 If the work which any person has built on this Foundation [any product of his efforts whatever] survives [this test], he will get his reward.
15 But if any person's work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.
16 Do you not discern and understand that you [the whole church at Corinth] are God's temple (His sanctuary), and that God's Spirit has His permanent dwelling in you [to be at home in you, collectively as a church and also individually]?
17 If anyone does hurt to God's temple or corrupts it [with false doctrines] or destroys it, God will do hurt to him and bring him to the corruption of death and destroy him. For the temple of God is holy (sacred to Him) and that [temple] you the believing church and its individual believers are.


Do you have a better understanding now, you should and so should 'watchmen'? No messing around in these instructions to the church at Corinth. You and 'watchmen' like to mess around with false doctrine and corrupt the individual temples of God body, the church. I would have a little more reverence for the grace of God and not be so flippant with the things you keep saying through accusations that effects God's body, His temple. God is longsuffering but he has His limitations and He operates according to His justice and wisdom and all vengeance belongs to Him and he will repay / Rom 12:19. I don't think that God is messing around, do you? The scriptures are abundantly clear.

What you've done is posted your favorite modern day or paraphrased bible version which twists the scripture to say what you want it to say. OSAS is one of those false corrupt doctrines that God will destroy.
 
Nov 21, 2009
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#50
What you've done is posted your favorite modern day or paraphrased bible version which twists the scripture to say what you want it to say. OSAS is one of those false corrupt doctrines that God will destroy.
OSAS is true and supported by more than just one scripture. If you can give me a scripture that says it's false I would gladly love to read it. ; )
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#51
OSAS is true and supported by more than just one scripture. If you can give me a scripture that says it's false I would gladly love to read it. ; )
If you look back through the discussions numerous passages of scripture are found, not to mention early church writings that prove OSAS is not what the early church believed, nor the apostles taught, nor Christ taught, nor the subjective experience of people who have died and gone to heaven to be told they are in danger of hellfire- yes even christians.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#52
OSAS is true and supported by more than just one scripture. If you can give me a scripture that says it's false I would gladly love to read it. ; )
Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


IF and only IF we continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel will we be presented to God holy and unblameable.


There are plenty more where that one came from my friend
 
Nov 21, 2009
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#53
Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


IF and only IF we continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel will we be presented to God holy and unblameable.


There are plenty more where that one came from my friend
Yes, there are people who never believed with ALL of their heart that Jesus died for their sins, which Romans says is a requirement to getting saved.

1 John 2:19

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

If you left you never believed in the first place, so you can't leave it. : D
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#54
Yes, there are people who never believed with ALL of their heart that Jesus died for their sins, which Romans says is a requirement to getting saved.

1 John 2:19

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

If you left you never believed in the first place, so you can't leave it. : D
What about those that are grafted in and then cut off?
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#56
What do you mean "cut off?"
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
 
Nov 21, 2009
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#57
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Right before it.

Romans 11:20

"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off"

I don't think I will change your beliefs, so maybe on this one also, we can agree to disagree ; )
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#58
Jesus tells we can know by the fruit they produce. To be honest it is fairly easy to tell when someone is not saved. The hard thing is knowing whether or not someone is truly saved or just putting on a show/ a good face.

Mt 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Mt 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Mt 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


yeah I'm sure that when these cast out devils and prophesied everyone thought they were producing fruit for the Lord also. and even they thought they were saved,
 
Nov 21, 2009
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#59
Mt 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Mt 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Mt 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


yeah I'm sure that when these cast out devils and prophesied everyone thought they were producing fruit for the Lord also. and even they thought they were saved,
The will of God is that everyone is saved through Jesus Christ. Trying to do works won't save anyone and is against Jesus' perfect salvation.

John 6:29

"This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. "
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
#60
saying salvation can be lossed- what is this saying?

* That God lied when He said He would never leave nor forsake us
* That the Holy Spirit's promise of eternal life is also a lie
* That eternal life isn't really eternal
* That when Jesus died on the cross and rose again it wasn't fully effectual- wasn't enough
* That we own our salvation. .and not Jesus

it goes on and on

How do you break addiction? By condemning yourself when you fail at breaking it? NO.. by knowing you are freed from it! The same applies to sin.. and salvation.. how do we seek Jesus? By condeming ourselves when we fail at following Him? NO.. by knowing you are freed from sin and secure in Him.. allowing us to love Him