Losing your salvation

shad · Dec 1, 2009

You are so troubled in your heart by the truth. You would think that someone who has the Holy Spirit of truth / Jn 14:17, that was given to them at salvation as the earnest of their inheritance / Eph 1:13,14, would not be so troubled and be able to worship God in Spirit and truth / Jn 4:23,24. Those that do not have the Spirit will never understand grace and truth or the things of God because they are spiritually discerned / 1Cor 2:14. The Amplified Bible did a good job on that passage but you reject it because your error is more desirable to the flesh and the natural mind of Adam. In Adam all die but in Christ all are made alive / 1Cor 15:22.

Believers that do no understand grace, they are in Christ but live in their adamic nature and are never quickened by truth through the Holy Spirit. They are saved but abide in death. Jesus Christ came that we might have life and have it more abundantly through the work of grace and truth that comes by Jesus Christ. When the believer puts them self in a position of humility before God, the Holy Spirit through grace brings the truth into their experience and sets them free. When the truth sets them free, they are free from trouble in their heart and free to worship God in Spirit.

MahogonySnail · Dec 1, 2009

Context: having our needs met and being content with what we have. OSAS makes God a liar when He says if we deny Him He will deny us.

No non-OSAS believer I know, doesn't believe they have eternal life.

We're not eternal yet until we are glorified like Christ's body. If you are eternal now, you wouldn't be able to die once. If we lose hold of Christ, who is our life, then we don't have life no longer.

Not relevant to this topic, this is not a faith vs works debate. Jesus's death on the cross, does not mean everyone is automatically saved without faith. Jesus's blood cleanses us from sin. Jesus didn't die on the cross to force us or make us to believe.

OSAS says that we have no part in our salvation, which is not true. It's a two-way relationship, not one-way.

MahogonySnail · Dec 1, 2009

I find it funny how you must use a modern day bible version to prove your point of view. Paul is talking about those within the church, yes Christians, who cause carnal divisions. Paul is saying God will destroy them. In other words, God will destroy Christians in his church who cause carnal divisions and bring in false doctrine and heresy. Not a OSAS passage of scripture at all.

You said "saved but abide in death". Sorry, but the bible teaches if you don't have life, you aren't saved. Life and salvation are synonymous. It is also, plain common sense. Sometimes I wonder why I bother when I read statements like these.

That is correct, but not every believer lives like this and so is in danger of losing their soul. Which is why Christ Himself and a lot of the writings of the apostles is to exhort believers. There would be no point in exhorting and encouraging believers in the faith if their salvation was as secure as you make it out to be.

Vincere · Dec 1, 2009

I believe we may all fall or fail, but God is faithful to His word. We may lose or increase our reward, but we will never lose our salvation because God cannot lie. If we fail to mature in Christ we may miss the wedding feast of God like the five imprudent virgins. We may instead receive a dispensational punishment. In Revelation it talks about our name being erased from the book of life. That name belongs there or it would not be there in the first place. After our punishment and maturing in Christ, we will then be prepared , and our name will be re-written in the book for eternity.

If your child disobeys you, you don't kill him, you punish them for a time. They mature and the learn; then you move on with them in love.

So if we take care of the prize, as our reward we will rule with Christ in the Millenial Kingdom and into eternity.

greatkraw · Dec 1, 2009

Vincere said:

This and other passages indicate that there are those that wear the term Christian, ie attend or belong to a church, who are not sealed by the Holy spirit, ie are not genuinely converted - 'depart from me I never knew you'

There is no purgatory. The saved will get to heaven with varying amounts of rewards starting from zero.

shad · Dec 1, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

It is vital to know the difference between positional truth and experiential truth. Positional truth is what God does to the sinner the moment He saves him by grace. There are some (65) things that God does to and for the believer that are irreversible and immutable. These things are imputed to the believer and represent his standing before God but not his experience. The sinner was born again and God made him a new creature in Christ. Positional truth is what God does and what He sees that has been imputed to the believing sinner that He has redeemed. The believing sinner has been saved and redeemed by grace, but has not learned to appreciate the truth of it in his experience.

It is like a man who is a slave and is purchased (redeemed) from the slave market and set free. Positionally he is a free man. He only begins to experience his freedom when he lives his life. He may hit some snags along the way that remind him of what it was like as a slave, but he is still a free man positionally and that can not be taken from him. He needs to be taught about the freedom he has. He needs to be encouraged, built up and covered by love and grace when he fails and falls short. He needs to know that the one who purchased him from that slave market will never forsake him and sell him out, unlike some on this site that profess they know God.

The only thing he knew as a slave was bondage and all those things that were connected to it and come from it, which is death. He may have a tendency to gravitate to his old life as a slave and its surroundings but the one who purchased him has a plan for his life all worked out before the purchase took place. Not only is he a free man but he is a new man with a new identity because of the one who purchased him. Outwardly he looks pretty much the same but inwardly there is a work going on. He stumbles again and again and even backslides into his former tendencies for a time but that work inside him brings him back. He can't deny that he was set free by the one who purchased him. He is a purchased possession and there was nothing about him that motivated the purchaser to redeem him from the slave market.

This man will never be able to lose the purchased price that redeemed him from that position of being a slave unto the glorious liberty of being a free man. That free man will always be a purchased possession. All he needs to do is grow in the grace and knowledge of that liberty and if he falls he will not be utterly cast down because he has been redeemed.

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

watchmen said:

ChickenMan3122 said:

Right the Jews were cut off for unbelieve but verse 22 plainly states that we as Gentile believers will be cut off if we do not continue in God's goodness.

Definition_Christ · Dec 1, 2009

Jeremiah 33
19 And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
20 “Thus says the LORD: ‘If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season,
21 then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.
22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.’”
23 Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
24 “Have you not considered what these people have spoken, saying, ‘The two families which the LORD has chosen, He has also cast them off’? Thus they have despised My people, as if they should no more be a nation before them.
25 “Thus says the LORD: ‘If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth,
26 then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them.’”

jjkg · Dec 1, 2009

1 Timothy 4:1 - "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

1 Timothy 4:16 - "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."

Here's the problem I have with Once Saved, Always Saved - We're basically telling people that despite the way you choose to live your life, as long as you had accepted Jesus at one particular point in your life, your salvation is assured. First of all, we make the assumption that these people really came to a saving faith to begin with, which should never be assumed. Secondly, I really believe no one or nothing can rip us away from God's hands of salvation, but I do believe that one can forfeit what has been given to them. Paul writes to "persevere in your life and doctrine". I believe that the true sign of salvation is obedience to Christ. It's a given that those saved still sin, but there is a huge difference between sinning and repenting and just walking away or abandoning the faith without any concern for God, His Character and His commands. The whole idea of scripture is to not just believe at one point in one's life.....it is to believe and keep on believing.....it is not to repent once....but repent and continue to continue repenting as we walk.
What do you say of a Muslim who said they once professed a faith in Christ, but were lead to the 'truth' that Allah is God and His prophet is Muhammed or to the godless person in general who said they said a prayer one time and accepted Jesus into their heart yet continue to live a sinful life without any second thought about godly things? Do you say, 'Hey, brother...as long as you've 'accepted Jesus' at one point in your life.....? I believe there are either one of two possibilities. They either never really came to a saving faith in Christ (....and Jesus said to them, "Get away from me, I never knew you....") or flat out abandon the truth for a lie(s) ("..some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."). Anyway, off to work I go. I welcome any replies. Thanks for reading!! God bless.

Elijah23 · Dec 1, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

I’m just trying to make the point that I’ve never heard it said in my church that “once saved, always saved,” and that “once saved, always saved,” doesn’t make sense to me.

Elijah23 · Dec 1, 2009

Ash_JFF said:

I can’t remember ever hearing it said in my church, “Once saved, always saved.” Where does that come from?

shad · Dec 1, 2009

jjkg said:

Couple of questions.

1. How did God save you, was it by grace through faith in the work of Christ on the cross or was it some other way?

2. How did all of your sins get forgiven and cleansed by the blood of Christ?

3. Did God give you His gift of righteousness, His gift of the Holy Spirit and His gift of eternal life when you believed or are you still waiting for these things to happen?

4. Did God regenerate you through mercy when you believed upon Christ and if He did explain how that can be forfeited?

5. How do you know and what is the proof that you can provide right now, that you are saved?

6. If you are not saved or don't know if you are for sure or believe that it is possible to lose it, why in the world would I want to listen to anything you have to say about it?

7. If you live to be 80 years old how do you know that you will be just as saved then as you were when you first believed?

8. Are you going to be anymore cleansed and forgiven of sin at 80 years than when you were saved?

9. Will the cross of Christ have the same message for you at 80 years as it did when you first heard the gospel?

10. Do you know that a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways / James 1:8?

watchmen · Dec 1, 2009

jjkg said:

1 Timothy 4:1 - "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

1 Timothy 4:16 - "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."

Here's the problem I have with Once Saved, Always Saved - We're basically telling people that despite the way you choose to live your life, as long as you had accepted Jesus at one particular point in your life, your salvation is assured. First of all, we make the assumption that these people really came to a saving faith to begin with, which should never be assumed. Secondly, I really believe no one or nothing can rip us away from God's hands of salvation, but I do believe that one can forfeit what has been given to them. Paul writes to "persevere in your life and doctrine". I believe that the true sign of salvation is obedience to Christ. It's a given that those saved still sin, but there is a huge difference between sinning and repenting and just walking away or abandoning the faith without any concern for God, His Character and His commands. The whole idea of scripture is to not just believe at one point in one's life.....it is to believe and keep on believing.....it is not to repent once....but repent and continue to continue repenting as we walk.
What do you say of a Muslim who said they once professed a faith in Christ, but were lead to the 'truth' that Allah is God and His prophet is Muhammed or to the godless person in general who said they said a prayer one time and accepted Jesus into their heart yet continue to live a sinful life without any second thought about godly things? Do you say, 'Hey, brother...as long as you've 'accepted Jesus' at one point in your life.....? I believe there are either one of two possibilities. They either never really came to a saving faith in Christ (....and Jesus said to them, "Get away from me, I never knew you....") or flat out abandon the truth for a lie(s) ("..some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."). Anyway, off to work I go. I welcome any replies. Thanks for reading!! God bless.

Excellent post. I would that there is no question that OSAS is one of the doctrine of demons.

ChickenMan3122 · Dec 1, 2009

watchmen said:

Like I said before, and the Bible states if you leave, you never believed in your heart anyways. I guess this is another "teaching from demons" even though the Bible states this. If you believe it in your heart Jesus won't let you go! : D

ChickenMan3122 · Dec 1, 2009

jjkg said:

If someone leaves the faith, it was never there in the first place. Yes there will be many who leave, because the message wasn't in their hearts and they are deceived very easily.

John 10:28-29

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

Ephesians 4:30

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

Colossians 2:13

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

It says ALL sins, not just "some" or just "past" sins.

greatkraw · Dec 1, 2009

jjkg said:

Sorry????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!

greatkraw · Dec 1, 2009

Elijah23 said:

The Bible; amywhere you see the word 'GRACE'

Thaddaeus · Dec 1, 2009

hey for all those that believes you have to have works plus faith, or that you can walk away from your salvation or either you can do something bad enough to force God to take it away from you, would you all please do me a favour, QUIT TELLING PEOPLE THAT JESUS SAVES, for even you, yourself don't believe it, you could for once be honest in your life and tell them hey i saved myself , do you want to know how to save yourself, and then you can preach that false doctrine that tramples afresh Jesus our redeemer, our Messiah, our Lord , Our Christ,

Thaddaeus · Dec 1, 2009

greatkraw said:

great response, Kraw

Elijah23 · Dec 1, 2009

greatkraw said:

But people will tell you that if you don’t do this or don’t do that, you will burn in hell forever. Why, then, are some people saved and others not?

Losing your salvation

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