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That is correct, but not every believer lives like this and so is in danger of losing their soul. Which is why Christ Himself and a lot of the writings of the apostles is to exhort believers. There would be no point in exhorting and encouraging believers in the faith if their salvation was as secure as you make it out to be.[/quote]
Yes there is: We are encouraged to continually follow Christ and his commandment becasue that is what Jesus has commanded for us to do. Sometimes my faith is weak even though I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am saved based on what scripture says. Every Christian goes through that. It is the devil trying to bring us down and getting us to doubt God's salvation and not to worship and obey him. That's why we need exhortation and encouragement - to strengthen us in our relationship with God and other Christians.
Yes there is: We are encouraged to continually follow Christ and his commandment becasue that is what Jesus has commanded for us to do. Sometimes my faith is weak even though I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am saved based on what scripture says. Every Christian goes through that. It is the devil trying to bring us down and getting us to doubt God's salvation and not to worship and obey him. That's why we need exhortation and encouragement - to strengthen us in our relationship with God and other Christians.
hay I didnt say he wasnt. Just a wonder about. But yes Judas was lost since the beginning. Its nteresting that Judas was still able to do all these things. Proves to the fact that deeds do not gain heaven.
bless, pickles
ps, Also consider, Judas was lost before Jesus died on the cross.
God bless, pickles
bless, pickles
ps, Also consider, Judas was lost before Jesus died on the cross.
God bless, pickles
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I totally agree with you. If the the Muslim man truly became a Christian and then followed his old religion then it will not last long. God will convict him so much he can't stand it. Or, he never was a Christian to begin with so it doesn't matter what he does with his life because he is going to hell anyway.
I am not at all saying that if you got saved then you can do what you want. That is not in scripture. I am saying that once you are saved you have an obligation to follow Jesus because of what he has done for you on the cross. And anyway, we will want to follow him. When we are saved, God changes our hearts and desires to match his. We may make mistakes and sin, sometimes a lot, but deep down inside what we want most is to follow Jesus, worship him, please him, obey him, and love him. And God helps us to do just that through his Spirit.
I am not at all saying that if you got saved then you can do what you want. That is not in scripture. I am saying that once you are saved you have an obligation to follow Jesus because of what he has done for you on the cross. And anyway, we will want to follow him. When we are saved, God changes our hearts and desires to match his. We may make mistakes and sin, sometimes a lot, but deep down inside what we want most is to follow Jesus, worship him, please him, obey him, and love him. And God helps us to do just that through his Spirit.
Cup, look into who benifits from the oil. Also the different sects. of faith that have the money and which ones benifit fron the power of oil. Also look to what can happen if certian sects gain this power in the middle east. You are right, for many it is about oil. But for reasons that are unseen.
Good luck and God bless, pickles
Good luck and God bless, pickles
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Go to scripture:
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Those are the only requirement to salvation: believe and confess. Then follow him: being just like Jesus - obeying him, worshiping him and loving him.
NOTHING can take our salvation away from us, but that does not mean that you can do what you want and sin all you want.
Roman 8:1-2, 12
Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
So then , brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh , to live according to the flesh...
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you received from God? You are not your own; you were bought ata price. Therefore honor God with your body.
I we sin we are not honoring or obeying God. God saved us and changed our hearts and desires to match his. So, we must oney and worship him. Yes, it can be hard and we may sin A LOT, i know, but we can be confident that God will never forsake us and will help us in our time of need.
Judas was not lost at this point. Are you saying that Judas could perform miracles in the name of Jesus, and not have faith in Him? Would Jesus make an apostle of someone who was already lost? Would Jesus give authority to preach in His name to someone who was already lost? Judas was tempted by his greed which slowly opened his mind to Satan.
John 13: 26 Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. "What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him,
Judas, like any of us, could have repented and returned to Christ at any time up until the point where Satan entered into him. At that point, and not before, he was irrevocably lost.
God bless you as well.
John 13: 26 Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. "What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him,
Judas, like any of us, could have repented and returned to Christ at any time up until the point where Satan entered into him. At that point, and not before, he was irrevocably lost.
God bless you as well.
I'd have to agree with this.
if it was not judas, it would have been someone else. All of the apostles pretty much had the same mindset as Judas. The Messiah is coming back as a government type ruler who will set us free from roman oppression and rule over us. Judas just tried to play Christ hand, it wasn't about the money really because the amount he received was not that much.
if it was not judas, it would have been someone else. All of the apostles pretty much had the same mindset as Judas. The Messiah is coming back as a government type ruler who will set us free from roman oppression and rule over us. Judas just tried to play Christ hand, it wasn't about the money really because the amount he received was not that much.
I dont know about how good a man Judas was. I believe in Luke, but Ill double check it. There was scripture about how Judas was suspect in his use of the monies that belonged to all the followers of Jesus.
God bless, pickles
Ps Id grab my bible but hubby is asleep and dont want to wake him.
Smiles and God bless, pickles
God bless, pickles
Ps Id grab my bible but hubby is asleep and dont want to wake him.
Smiles and God bless, pickles
Also I do recall reading scripture where Jesus said that none in his care were lost except he that was destined since the beginning. One could say that this supports osas, some would say it dosnt.
As I said before, I believe scripture supports both ways on this because this judgement belongs to Jesus, not us. Look at the debate already, I think there is wisdom here.saying one is a christian does not make one a christian. No differant than one putting on a uniform of a soldier. One has to become one first. Then one recieves the uniform.
All I really know is that if one truelly accepts Jesus, they strive to do all he asks because of their love for him.
God bless, pickles
As I said before, I believe scripture supports both ways on this because this judgement belongs to Jesus, not us. Look at the debate already, I think there is wisdom here.saying one is a christian does not make one a christian. No differant than one putting on a uniform of a soldier. One has to become one first. Then one recieves the uniform.
All I really know is that if one truelly accepts Jesus, they strive to do all he asks because of their love for him.
God bless, pickles
I don't know why people think everything changed since Christ , all Christ really did was atone for the sins of mankind He didn't change 180 degrees the spiritual laws of the universe or how God deals with mankind - except where the atonement is concerned. It doesn't make sense that you would believe a person could lose faith in the old testament, but not in the new. Especially considering that old testament examples are frequently used by the new testament authors such as Abraham, to show examples of faith, determination, perserverance, and also failure, where God's people were concerned. It's just a cop out when OSAS believers say "everything changed since Christ", especially since the majority of the new testament is based upon the old testament and the old testament was the same scriptures Christ and the authors of the new used. The reason why the early church did not believe a person could never lose salvation, is because they were so close and familiar to the old testament, and that's a big reason why OSAS is still false today. Unless you believe God changed what He said 2000 years ago within the last 200 years aka progressive revelation or whatever it is called. I will post one very relevant scripture from the old testament here:
Eze 3:20 And when the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and when I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Eze 3:21 But if you warn the righteous so that the righteous does not sin, and if he does not sin, he shall surely live because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.
Eze 3:20 And when the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and when I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Eze 3:21 But if you warn the righteous so that the righteous does not sin, and if he does not sin, he shall surely live because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.
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I was referring to post #111, where it was claimed that Judas was before Christ died and so somehow that changes things? Some suggest that automatically since Christ people not only have a choice to follow Christ, but it is impossible for them to fall away. Then why did Paul say:
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
- i.e. Christians, only Christians partake of the Spirit.
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come,
- again talking to Christians.
Heb 6:6 and who have fallen away; it is impossible, I say, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify the Son of God afresh to themselves and put Him to an open shame.
- it is possible for Christians to fall away.
Heb 6:8 But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected and is a curse, whose end is to be burned.)
- it's end is to be burned (reference to hell fire, not merely loss of reward).
That's the plain and simple reading of these scriptures.
You said before:
But Hebrews verses I posted above describes the case where a person is saved, and then does what they want and sin all they want. Something to which you are too afraid to consider or admit to, for some reason. Leading to the rediculous statements in here by some that you can be dead in sin and still saved. Sorry but the words salvation and life are synonymous, as are death and hell.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
- i.e. Christians, only Christians partake of the Spirit.
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come,
- again talking to Christians.
Heb 6:6 and who have fallen away; it is impossible, I say, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify the Son of God afresh to themselves and put Him to an open shame.
- it is possible for Christians to fall away.
Heb 6:8 But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected and is a curse, whose end is to be burned.)
- it's end is to be burned (reference to hell fire, not merely loss of reward).
That's the plain and simple reading of these scriptures.
You said before:
But Hebrews verses I posted above describes the case where a person is saved, and then does what they want and sin all they want. Something to which you are too afraid to consider or admit to, for some reason. Leading to the rediculous statements in here by some that you can be dead in sin and still saved. Sorry but the words salvation and life are synonymous, as are death and hell.
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Maho
Mahogony, I was making a statement to consider, not a fact. I agree with you that all in the old testament is confermed in the new. I just wondered if the sacrifice of Jesus would have made a differance. Im not trying to say it would. Just wondering. Just because one dosent fill the thread with clarifications dosnt mean they dont .
Maby I need to be more discriptive, I figured most would understand that I was speaking of a point of interest.
Silly computers do not show the whole story.
Smiles and God bless, pickles
Mahogony, I was making a statement to consider, not a fact. I agree with you that all in the old testament is confermed in the new. I just wondered if the sacrifice of Jesus would have made a differance. Im not trying to say it would. Just wondering. Just because one dosent fill the thread with clarifications dosnt mean they dont .
Maby I need to be more discriptive, I figured most would understand that I was speaking of a point of interest.
Silly computers do not show the whole story.
Smiles and God bless, pickles
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I never said that we are dead in sin and still saved. Christ said that because we are saved sin has no power over us anymore. Yes, we still sin but the blood of Christ cover the eternal consequences of it.
Tell me, how many times a day do you think you must ask to be "saved again" since you believe you can lose your salvation? Everyone is born into sin. What if you die in your sleep? Even if you continually - nonstop - ask to be "saved again" that would still not be enough. If you can lose your salvation then that is not salvation at all. You are still putting salvation in our hands making it into works that we have to do every second of the day.
Tell me, how many times a day do you think you must ask to be "saved again" since you believe you can lose your salvation? Everyone is born into sin. What if you die in your sleep? Even if you continually - nonstop - ask to be "saved again" that would still not be enough. If you can lose your salvation then that is not salvation at all. You are still putting salvation in our hands making it into works that we have to do every second of the day.
well she may not be saying that But Jesus certainly did. these people did great works in His mane But Jesus says I NEVER KNEW YOU not you were mine at one time and fell away I never knew you
Mt 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Mt 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mt 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Mt 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.