Trinity?

ChristIsGod · Dec 27, 2014

I've applied myself but you're a broken record. I applied myself by not watching television but sitting with the Word open and cross-referencing from cover to cover to "seek Him" so that I could "know Him" until my eyes were blurred.

I love this topic more than any on earth, but you keep repeating yourself and the repetition is something that I can tolerate only so much of ... or anybody could.

Jesus is Not the SAME for each Person of the Triune Godhead in Acts 2:38 and this isn't a pleasurable discussion of The Majesty of GOD.

No more, Bowman - you will not reply with any sense that you've read my posts, so I'm left to face that I've wasted precious time - getting tired out repeating myself over and over again. It's obvious from your post #1238 that you are not making sense in your reply to Acts 2:38. The Three are One and that covers it all and the fact that Every Name of GOD from the Old Testament applies to Christ, the Savior, the Redeemer, the Messiah. The Word is God - as we see in Rev 19 as well and He's returning with a Name that no one knows but Himself.

I'm moving to a more pleasant thread post now for someone else that 'may' read my posts and not repeat himself a hundred times nor force me to.

newbirth · Dec 27, 2014

Bowman said:

A man quote scripture and you say English Trinitarian renderings...... scripture belongs to all .....you are just dodging with those responses.....refute the claim with scripture or a credible comment....

ChristIsGod · Dec 27, 2014

2Co 6:18 And I will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

These are saying the same thing - but by Whom?

Bowman · Dec 27, 2014

What a joke!

newbirth said:

You don't even attempt to address ANY scripture that I posit....

Sweet ignorant Trinity-denier that you are....

ELECT · Dec 27, 2014

ChristIsGod said:

Son and daughters to God the Father brothers and sisters to Jesus God the Son

Bowman · Dec 27, 2014

ChristIsGod said:

Mat already established that it was...

The Three are One God...but NOT each other.

Feel free to return when you want to discuss scripture, sis...

ChristIsGod · Dec 27, 2014

*
Just a few for ebalT5 -

Rev 1:8 ~ I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the 'Almighty'.

Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God 'Almighty' ....

Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am He.

Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last.

Rev 1 - I Am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.....
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire; And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters.
And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword and His countenance was as the sun shineth in His strength.
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead.
And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the First and the Last:
I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Bowman · Dec 27, 2014

Pathetic...

newbirth said:

If I were a Trinity-denier like yourself, then I would at least make an attempt to locate a rendering that was complied by other like-minded Trinity-deniers.

You can't even do that...

EbalT5 · Dec 27, 2014

Bowman said:

What is the foremost Scripture ""stating that The Son is the true God....the God of all?""

Just show me your best one.
Don't bomb me with a cut and paste list.

Bowman · Dec 27, 2014

EbalT5 said:

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)

EbalT5 · Dec 27, 2014

It is "funny" that you mentioned Revelation chapter 1
I was just working on a study of that Chapter. Here is what I have so far.

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
“”
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants,””
If God gave Jesus the revelation, then Jesus could not be God. If Jesus were God he would not need God to give him the revelation. He would already have the revelation.
“
He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ”
It is important to note that this passage indicates that God and Jesus are two separate beings. If Jesus were God it would not be necessary to indicate that they do not have the same identity.
　
3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
“”
for the time is near””
This ties in with Revelation 22:!0
10 And he *said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, “for the time is near“
Revelation 22:12 12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Unfortunately, the time was not near as that was almost 2000 years ago. Jesus has not come “quickly” as that was almost 2000 years ago.
IMO the NT writers expected Jesus to come quickly and soon but this has not happened.
I can understand why Jesus messed up on the timing of his coming. He didn’t know.
Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Jesus just didn’t know the timeline. Good evidence that he is not God because God knows everything.
　
“”
7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.””
Daniel 7:13
“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
Mark 14:61-62
Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
Jesus claims to be the son of man of Daniel 7. Sons of men are human and not Gods.
Jesus answers the High Priest’s question and claims to be the Messiah. Had Jesus been God wouldn’t this be a lie of omission?
Notice that in Daniel 7, the son of man is “presented” to
the Ancient of Days, whom I assume is God. Usually an inferior is presented to a superior. As a son of man Jesus would not be presented to himself if he were God.

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.Sounds like a prayer to God....ven ends with a AMEN.　

And God answers from Heaven......

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

ChristIsGod · Dec 27, 2014

*
More for EbalT5 ~ Creator God ~ Every knee shall bow ~

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for Him.

Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Isaiah 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Isa 45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth

EbalT5 · Dec 27, 2014

Bowman said:

I would say that the verse is rather ambiguous. It is not clear if the verse is always about Jesus or about God or which is which.
We have to understand John's motives for writing which he makes very clear in the 20th chapter of his gospel.
[h=3]Why This Gospel Was Written[/h][SUP]30 [/SUP]Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; [SUP]31 [/SUP]but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

John makes it clear that he only wrote to prove that Jesus was the Messiah or Christ.
Had Jesus been God, John would have said so. But his motive is to prove that Jesus is the legitimate Messiah.

EbalT5 · Dec 27, 2014

God Tells Peter That Jesus Is NOT God.
Did Jesus’ “Main Man” Peter believe that Jesus was God?
Let’s look!
Matthew 16:13-17
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Jesus asks the question….Who do you say I am?
Peter answers….. You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Jesus praises Peter’s answer and affirms that Peter is correct.
We know for sure that Peter is correct because Jesus says “flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.”
Peter’s correct answer came directly from God.
Jesus is not God but he is the Messiah or Christ.
Are you convinced?

Bowman · Dec 27, 2014

EbalT5 said:

Of the seventy times in which the demonstrative pronoun ουτος has a personal referent in the Gospel of John and his Epistles, the Father is never the referent! This fact, along with proximity, significantly increases the likelihood that Jesus Christ is the antecedent in the case of 1 John 5.20, as thus…

οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)

Bowman · Dec 27, 2014

Flimsy research...

EbalT5 said:

Fact is....there are extant manuscripts which omit 'nor the Son'....but you failed to even mention....why?

Pathetic....

EbalT5 · Dec 27, 2014

Bowman said:

Of the seventy times in which the demonstrative pronoun ουτος has a personal referent in the Gospel of John and his Epistles, the Father is never the referent! This fact, along with proximity, significantly increases the likelihood that Jesus Christ is the antecedent in the case of 1 John 5.20, as thus…

οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)

I see you know all about Grammer and antecedents and referents.
But John was just a fisherman. Do you want to stake your future on wheter he got the grammer correct in a language which was not his native tongue?

ChristIsGod · Dec 28, 2014

EbalT5 said:

God Tells Peter That Jesus Is NOT God.
Did Jesus’ “Main Man” Peter believe that Jesus was God?
Let’s look!
Matthew 16:13-17
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Jesus asks the question….Who do you say I am?
Peter answers….. You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Jesus praises Peter’s answer and affirms that Peter is correct.
We know for sure that Peter is correct because Jesus says “flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.”
Peter’s correct answer came directly from God.
Jesus is not God but he is the Messiah or Christ.
Are you convinced?

Ah, but those Jewish disciples knew exactly what Peter & Christ meant and why the Pharisees and those religious leaders said that He needed to die, because He claimed "to be equal with GOD". That was their charge for the death sentence.

Bowman · Dec 28, 2014

EbalT5 said:

Did you get to this one yet....?

ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος

ho nikao kleronomeo houtos kai esomai autos theos kai autos esomai moi huios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to Me. (Rev 21.7)

Observe that “Theos” is in the nominative case, indicating that Jesus is the subject of the verb “esomai” establishing Him as God.

Further, observe that Jesus establishes that His deity is directly interchangeable with the Father, making the ones overcoming, the sons to Him.

EbalT5 · Dec 28, 2014

ChristIsGod said:

John 10;
[30] I and my Father are one.
[31] Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
[32] Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Was Jesus really claiming to be God?
Did the Jews really think he was God?

Jesus may have been just claiming a special intellectual relationship with God. That he and God were in total agreement intellectually.
The Jews may have believed that by claiming this relationship with God, Jesus was violating one of the 613 laws of Judaism.
Namely.......
Leviticus 19:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 You shall not swear falsely by My name, so as to profane the name of your God; I am the Lord.

By claiming to be the intellectual equal of God, Jesus was profaning the name of God. He was profaning God's reputation.

The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be like God.”

Trinity?

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