Revelation

[kennethcadwell]

It is speaking of IMPORTS so no way Saudi could be making the merchants rich......and disproves his statements about Saudi making the merchants rich as they do not import enough to fill the bill....so not sure why the remarks in line one....pay attention to the question and take a chill pill bro...

Try telling that to the oil merchants and the companies they work for who are making million to billion dollar profits every year off their oil. Not to mention how they have to buy about 75-85% of other supplies they have, and yet still it all comes down to all descriptions have to match.
And like PlainWord said do Americans or Catholics throw dust on their foreheads when morning ? No neither one does, so it shows the Muslims who do do this are the ones morning. Why would Muslims morn over America or the Vatican getting destroyed? They wouldn't, but over their capital city Mecca of Saudi Arabia you better believe they will morn....

 

[dcontroversal]

That is true but the oil economy is not based on what we have, but on what Saudi Arabia charges.
If Saudi Arabia goes up from $25 a barrel to $35 a barrel then our gas prices here goes up, if they go down in price by barrel our gas prices go down. Hince the recent lowering of gas prices lately.
Almost every nations in the world economy rides on the oil, if the oil capital of the world gets destroyed it would do more damage in the world then the Vatican getting destroyed.

Oil price is based upon futures and those who predict the future cost, usage etc. based upon supplies...not how much a barrel from Saudi Arabia......

​Unlike most products, oil prices are not determined entirely by supply, demand and market sentiment toward the physical product. Rather, supply, demand and sentiment toward oil futures contracts, which are traded heavily by speculators, play a dominant role in price determination. Cyclical trends in the commodities market may also play a role. Regardless of how the price is ultimately determined, based on its use in fuels and countless consumer goods, it appears that oil will continue to be in high demand for the foreseeable future

 

[kennethcadwell]

We have the history of six of the seven resurrections of the "Holy Roman Empire" in which the Catholic church has played a great part in, the Pope has crowned or blessed the leader of a European power...

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

1) 554AD Justinian's imperial restoration of the Holy Roman Empire - recognizes the supremacy of the Pope

2) 800AD Charlemagne crowned by the Pope on xmas day

3) 962AD Otto the Great crowned by the Pope

4) 1520AD Charles V crowned by the Pope

5) 1805AD Napoleon crowned by the Pope

6) early 1930'sAD Mussolini gave the land for the Vatican to the RCC and the Pope blessed him in return. Continued support for the Hitler/Mussolini axis

7) Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The problem is this can not be speaking of the Roman empire alone, because in verses 8 and 11 says the beast is not.
Rome was still in power in Johns day, but the beast system mentioned says was, and is not (meaning not in existance during John's time), and will come again.
It can not be the Roman empire only, or John would have been told was, is now, and will be still, but that is not what it says about the beast. The one that is is speaking of a king that is in power at John's time, not the beast system.

And like I mentioned before if the Iron is the Roman empire as early scholars have suggested, then the final beast and his system is not the Roman empire by itself, or even identical to the original empire. The seat of satan is located in Turkey, which is majority Muslim............

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Catholicism did to come from out of Christianity, but was twisted and corrupted by the Romans.

No it did not. It was out of paganism. The ceasar took some pagan stuff, gave it a christian name, and called it christianity, And forced the world under his power to follow his version of Christianity. Or be killed.

Again, You do not study much do you?

I do not know where you get your false information that the Romans started it, because it existed in the 2nd century (101-200 A.D.).

No it did not. That might be what they claim, But that is not true, No one practiced many of the things the catholics pracice in the 1st 2 centuries. That is a lie. and you bought into it, Maybe you have not completely left the roman church,, you still believe alot of her lies.

If you are going by the flawed Constantine debate then I understand because a number of people have been falsely taught that Constantine started the Catholic church. Constantine converted and joined the church in the 4th century, he did not start it.

He converted, and CHANGED THE CHURCH to its catholic form.

He hd a major issue, His people were pagan, If he forced them all to convert to true christianity, he would have had a war on his hands.

But if he takes pagan practicies, and gives it a christian name. Well many people will do it, because nothing really changed.

He paganized christianity. The idea may have came from others, but he is the one who empowered it, and forced it on all the world.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Oil price is based upon futures and those who predict the future cost, usage etc. based upon supplies...not how much a barrel from Saudi Arabia......

​Unlike most products, oil prices are not determined entirely by supply, demand and market sentiment toward the physical product. Rather, supply, demand and sentiment toward oil futures contracts, which are traded heavily by speculators, play a dominant role in price determination. Cyclical trends in the commodities market may also play a role. Regardless of how the price is ultimately determined, based on its use in fuels and countless consumer goods, it appears that oil will continue to be in high demand for the foreseeable future

That is not true at all, as they plastered on every news station here at the start of the falling gas prices was do to once again Saudi Arabia lowering the cost per barrel that they charged. They then here recently just upped the cost per barrel, which in then is why our prices just raised back up over $2 a gallon again.
The reason our gas prices fell in the first place was because Saudi Arabia lowered their price per barrel down below $100 per barrel in the past 15 years.


Saudi Arabia lowers cost on oil = lower cost on imported fuel = lower costs at the pump

It all works in a cycle just like food and other imports, if merchants have to spend more money on fuel then they charge higher prices to businesses for the products they are importing. The higher prices these businesses have to pay for products the higher they charge to consumers...................

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is true but the oil economy is not based on what we have, but on what Saudi Arabia charges.
If Saudi Arabia goes up from $25 a barrel to $35 a barrel then our gas prices here goes up, if they go down in price by barrel our gas prices go down. Hince the recent lowering of gas prices lately.
Almost every nations in the world economy rides on the oil, if the oil capital of the world gets destroyed it would do more damage in the world then the Vatican getting destroyed.

the world will not morn saudia arabia, any more than it would the united states getting destroyed.

If catholicism (which is most of the worlds religion) gets desgtroyed, the world will wail and scream in pain.

Yet another characteristic you do not comprehend.

 

[dcontroversal]

Try telling that to the oil merchants and the companies they work for who are making million to billion dollar profits every year off their oil. Not to mention how they have to buy about 75-85% of other supplies they have, and yet still it all comes down to all descriptions have to match.
And like PlainWord said do Americans or Catholics throw dust on their foreheads when morning ? No neither one does, so it shows the Muslims who do do this are the ones morning. Why would Muslims morn over America or the Vatican getting destroyed? They wouldn't, but over their capital city Mecca of Saudi Arabia you better believe they will morn....

Barking up the wrong tree.......it is a port city that goes up in flames and since when is Mecca a port city...Saudi's main port is Jeddah not Mecca

 

[kennethcadwell]

No it did not. It was out of paganism. The ceasar took some pagan stuff, gave it a christian name, and called it christianity, And forced the world under his power to follow his version of Christianity. Or be killed.

Again, You do not study much do you?



No it did not. That might be what they claim, But that is not true, No one practiced many of the things the catholics pracice in the 1st 2 centuries. That is a lie. and you bought into it, Maybe you have not completely left the roman church,, you still believe alot of her lies.



He converted, and CHANGED THE CHURCH to its catholic form.

He hd a major issue, His people were pagan, If he forced them all to convert to true christianity, he would have had a war on his hands.

But if he takes pagan practicies, and gives it a christian name. Well many people will do it, because nothing really changed.

He paganized christianity. The idea may have came from others, but he is the one who empowered it, and forced it on all the world.

A ceasar did not start Catholicism.............
I do not get where you get that from, as catholicism was term given to the early church back in the 2nd century (101-200 A.D.) for its universal scope of converting people around the world. The Romans later corrupted the church which is where we get the Roman Catholic church. The is one of the issues some have in studying as the Catholic church was not always the RCC, as the Roman part of the title came in the 4th century after the Romans corrupted it.

Like I said before Emperor Constantine did not start the Catholic church..............Neither did Augustine as the church existed before either one of them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Barking up the wrong tree.......it is a port city that goes up in flames and since when is Mecca a port city...Saudi's main port is Jeddah not Mecca

mecca is not even a port. it is 50 miles inland.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A ceasar did not start Catholicism.............
I do not get where you get that from, as catholicism was term given to the early church back in the 2nd century (101-200 A.D.) for its universal scope of converting people around the world. The Romans later corrupted the church which is where we get the Roman Catholic church. The is one of the issues some have in studying as the Catholic church was not always the RCC, as the Roman part of the title came in the 4th century after the Romans corrupted it.

Like I said before Emperor Constantine did not start the Catholic church..............Neither did Augustine as the church existed before either one of them.

dude. the term catholic mean universal.

Just because the roman catholic church uses its name, does not mean it was the first catholic church.

The catholic church of the 3rd and 4th centuries resembled nothing of the church called catholic in the first two.

Get over it!

Your arguments are flawed. they are week, and they have no basis of fact!

 

[dcontroversal]

That is not true at all, as they plastered on every news station here at the start of the falling gas prices was do to once again Saudi Arabia lowering the cost per barrel that they charged. They then here recently just upped the cost per barrel, which in then is why our prices just raised back up over $2 a gallon again.
The reason our gas prices fell in the first place was because Saudi Arabia lowered their price per barrel down below $100 per barrel in the past 15 years.


Saudi Arabia lowers cost on oil = lower cost on imported fuel = lower costs at the pump

It all works in a cycle just like food and other imports, if merchants have to spend more money on fuel then they charge higher prices to businesses for the products they are importing. The higher prices these businesses have to pay for products the higher they charge to consumers...................

I suggest you humble yourself....oil prices are set by speculators not Saudi Arabia.........serious your inability to humble yourself is becoming a reason many do not listen to you Kenneth!


How Are Oil Prices Determined?

3 Important Factors That Determine Oil Prices













Oil prices are determined by commodities traders who bid on oil futures contracts in the commodities market. These contracts are agreements to buy or sell oil at a specific date in the future for an agreed-upon price. They are executed on the floor of a commodity exchange by traders who are registered with the Commodities Futures Trading Commission. Commodities have been traded for more than 100 years, and have been regulated by the CFTC since the 1920s.
Commodities traders fall into two categories. Most are representatives of companies who actually use oil. They buy oil for delivery at a future date at the fixed price. That way, they know the price of the oil, can plan for it financially, and therefore reduce (or hedge) the risk to their corporations. Traders in the second category are actual speculators. Their only motive is to make money from changes in the price of oil.
What 3 Factors Do Traders Use To Determine Oil Prices?

There are three main factors that commodities traders look at when developing the bids that create oil prices.
First, is current supply in terms of output. This is usually controlled by OPEC quotas. However, U.S. shale oil production doubled between 2011 and 2014. As a result, traders believed there was a glut of oil, and bid the price down to $45/barrel. Normally, OPEC would cut supply to keep oil at its target of $70 a barrel. This time it allowed prices to fall,
since it won't lose money unless oil is $20 a barrel. Shale producers need $40-$50 a barrel to pay the high-yield bonds they used for financing. OPEC bet the shale producers would go out of business, allowing it to keep its dominant market share. For more, see Oil Price Forecast.
Second is access to future supply, which depends on oil reserves. This includes what's available in U.S. refineries and the Strategic Petroleum Reserves. These reserves can be accessed very easily, increasing oil supply if prices get too high. Saudi Arabia can also tap into its large reserve capacity.
Third, is oil demand, particularly from the United States. These estimates are provided monthly by the Energy Information Agency . Demand usually rises during the summer vacation driving season. To predict summer-time demand, forecasts for travel from AAA are used to determine potential gasoline use. During the winter, weather forecasts are used to determine potential home heating oil use.

 

[DesiredHaven]

The problem is this can not be speaking of the Roman empire alone, because in verses 8 and 11 says the beast is not.
Rome was still in power in Johns day, but the beast system mentioned says was, and is not (meaning not in existance during John's time), and will come again.
It can not be the Roman empire only, or John would have been told was, is now, and will be still, but that is not what it says about the beast. The one that is is speaking of a king that is in power at John's time, not the beast system.

And like I mentioned before if the Iron is the Roman empire as early scholars have suggested, then the final beast and his system is not the Roman empire by itself, or even identical to the original empire. The seat of satan is located in Turkey, which is majority Muslim............

Okay, I highlighted your post there.

And so John saw a beast rise up out of the sea

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Then you guys are sorta tying in his seat (in Turkey) with Satan/the dragon giving the beast (or the fourth Kingdom) his seat there?

Like am I catching this right??

I gotta start "somewheres"

 

[DesiredHaven]

I have a hard time learning in silence (I must admit) my questions just burst forth

 

[kennethcadwell]

Barking up the wrong tree.......it is a port city that goes up in flames and since when is Mecca a port city...Saudi's main port is Jeddah not Mecca

Look I know Mecca is not a port city, but New York does not fit all the descriptions for Mystery Babylon as well.
You are not going to have Muslim merchants throwing dust on their foreheads in morning for her, if anything they would be cheering at New York's destruction just like they did back on 911 when the twin towers were hit.
There is only three places I know of that the Muslims right now would morn over being destroyed; Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Turkey.......If Saudi Arabia is not Mystery Babylon then you would have to go with Turkey, because the bible shows Iran (Persia/Magog) still after the millennial.

The key once again is following the star and crescent moon symbols, they will lead you the right direction..........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look I know Mecca is not a port city, but New York does not fit all the descriptions for Mystery Babylon as well.
You are not going to have Muslim merchants throwing dust on their foreheads in morning for her, if anything they would be cheering at New York's destruction just like they did back on 911 when the twin towers were hit.
There is only three places I know of that the Muslims right now would morn over being destroyed; Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Turkey.......If Saudi Arabia is not Mystery Babylon then you would have to go with Turkey, because the bible shows Iran (Persia/Magog) still after the millennial.

The key once again is following the star and crescent moon symbols, they will lead you the right direction..........

so where in scripture does it say only muslims will cry and weep when babylon is destroyed?

again, your logic is flawed

 

[dcontroversal]

Look I know Mecca is not a port city, but New York does not fit all the descriptions for Mystery Babylon as well.
You are not going to have Muslim merchants throwing dust on their foreheads in morning for her, if anything they would be cheering at New York's destruction just like they did back on 911 when the twin towers were hit.
There is only three places I know of that the Muslims right now would morn over being destroyed; Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Turkey.......If Saudi Arabia is not Mystery Babylon then you would have to go with Turkey, because the bible shows Iran (Persia/Magog) still after the millennial.

The key once again is following the star and crescent moon symbols, they will lead you the right direction..........

2 points.....

1. Does not say MUSLIM merchants
2. At time written EVERYONE knew what it meant to throw dust on their heads as a sign of mourning

edit...The key is following the bible and being honest with what it teaches...not following the Islamic symbolism

 

[kennethcadwell]

Okay, I highlighted your post there.

And so John saw a beast rise up out of the sea

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Then you guys are sorta tying in his seat (in Turkey) with Satan/the dragon giving the beast (or the fourth Kingdom) his seat there?

Like am I catching this right??

I gotta start "somewheres"

Yes you are because the bible shows the man of sin comes from where the seat of satan is............
And that place is called Pergamum which is located in Turkey

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes you are because the bible shows the man of sin comes from where the seat of satan is............
And that place is called Pergamum which is located in Turkey

where does it say this?

 

[DesiredHaven]

Yes you are because the bible shows the man of sin comes from where the seat of satan is............
And that place is called Pergamum which is located in Turkey

Thanks, this will help me study from this point of reference then

 

[Willie-T]

I have a hard time learning in silence (I must admit) my questions just burst forth

And I think it would be a shameful day when you thought you had to. It sure wasn't "her husband" the Samaritan woman at the well was privately and quietly having that theological discussion with.