People think you have to keep grace on a leash

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J

Joshua_Generation

Banned
#181
Mar 10, 2015
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#181
Jason0047 said:


When I speak against OSAS and it's beliefs, most do not object to those beliefs. Why? Because that is where I had gotten them from. Yes, there are different levels of OSAS.

Personally, I believe in the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation" that teaches that a true believer who is saved will naturally bring forth a life full of holiness and fruitful works. Now, do not misunderstand me, works are not done to be saved, but they are merely the evidence that you have been saved when one repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. If a believer sins, they need to immediately confess that sin and forsake it and continue to walk uprightly with their Lord. If a believer continues to abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death (lying cheating murder etc.) then they are not saved.

So seeing I hold to the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation", I am naturally against all forms of OSAS. However, that said, I believe that only those who hold to "Conditional Salvation" and "OSAS Lite" are true Christians (or my brothers). I believe all other forms of OSAS are teachings from the pits of Hell. Anyways, there are three major types of OSAS.

OSAS Type #1:
Classic OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) which says you can practice unrepentant sin that leads unto death (Such as lying, murder, hate, fornication, etc.) and yet you can somehow still be saved.

OSAS Type #2:
Mid Range OSAS says that you cannot practice sin otherwise you do not know God. However, abiding in an occasional or small unrepentant sin and then dying in that sin will not necessarily send you to Hell.

OSAS Type #3:
OSAS Lite teaches that you if you practice or continually abide in unrepentant sin then you were never saved to begin with. Meaning that a true believer is characterized by them living righteously. So falling away from the faith would be impossible (Despite the many verses that talk about such a thing).
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Conditional salvation means that you do not believe what Jesus did on the cross and when he rose again was good enough, therefore you are preaching a works based salvation and gospel, which is a lie from hell, because it seeks to make yourself a god unto yourself and that somehow your works and Jesus = everything, when the gospel is Jesus and nothing we do= everything.

Your gospel does not understand grace, if you cannot understand grace, then you have no concept that righteousness is a position not personal performance, if you have no understanding of righteousness, then you are not a partaker of the divine nature.

You are the one preaching a false gospel Jason.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#182
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
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#182
crossnote said:
you have an OSAS strawman that is a definition we don't hold to. You won't admit that those who are saved have a new nature that disdains sin yet falls at times. Your idea of salvation is that ultimately man keeps himself saved.
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You hold to some of those things within that list. That's my point. You hold to even just one of it's dark beliefs and it is teaching a person to think they can sin and still be saved (Whether you want them to do that or not).
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#183
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
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#183
Jason0047 said:
Actually there are several sins that cannot ever be forgiven.

If one rejects Jesus with them having the Holy Spirit within their life, they cannot come back (Hebrews 6:4-6).

If one sins before they die and or commits suicide and they stay dead (with no chance to repent again), they are not forgiven.

If one speaks badly against the Holy Ghost they can never be forgiven of such a sin.
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Verse? .......
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#184
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#184
Joshua_Generation said:
Conditional salvation means that you do not believe what Jesus did on the cross and when he rose again was good enough, therefore you are preaching a works based salvation and gospel, which is a lie from hell, because it seeks to make yourself a god unto yourself and that somehow your works and Jesus = everything, when the gospel is Jesus and nothing we do= everything.

Your gospel does not understand grace, if you cannot understand grace, then you have no concept that righteousness is a position not personal performance, if you have no understanding of righteousness, then you are not a partaker of the divine nature.

You are the one preaching a false gospel Jason.
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No, sir. You are preaching a false gospel. May the Lord temporarily stop you in preaching such evil here. For OSAS clearly teachies and leads people to think they can sin and still be saved. It is pure evil. Good guys can do evil and get to Heaven? Yeah right. Not on God's watch. Yes, a person can repent of their evils and turn from their wicked ways and accept God and be right with HIm, but nowhere does the Bible teach that a person can refuse to repent of their sin and refuse to forake sin and still be right with God. Nowhere. For even you do not believe you did nothing to be saved. You had to do something to be saved unless you believe everyone is saved or something.
 
J

Joshua_Generation

Banned
#186
Mar 10, 2015
1,174
18
0
#186
Jason0047 said:
Actually there are several sins that cannot ever be forgiven.

If one rejects Jesus with them having the Holy Spirit within their life, they cannot come back (Hebrews 6:4-6).

If one sins before they die and or commits suicide and they stay dead (with no chance to repent again), they are not forgiven.

If one speaks badly against the Holy Ghost they can never be forgiven of such a sin.
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Oh wow, you are going completely against the word here.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#187
Jul 22, 2014
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#187
Joshua_Generation said:
Oh wow, you are going completely against the word here.
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No, sir. You are against His Word. I pray the Lord either stops you (In a way for you to rethink what you believe) or shows you the truth on this matter. For can you explain what I had referenced in Scripture by using the context and or other Scripture? My guess is that you are not going to do that.
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#188
Jul 22, 2014
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#188
Also, to say we have to keep grace on a leash implies that one is going to do future evil. Granted, there is no grace on a leash when it comes to past sin that one repents of. God forgives those who come to Him and who confess their sin and who strive to never do that sin ever again. However, saying that we have to put "grace" on a leash implies that is covering evil not yet done or evil in one's life that has not been resolved with God properly (Because this statement is made from the OSAS belief that one's present and future sins are forgiven them that are not repented of yet).
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#189
Jan 18, 2011
11,703
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#189
I got some news for you Jason: you are going to commit future sin. because knowing to do good and not doing it as sin. and you or me or no one else can 100% guarantee that we will always do what we should do. because if you do not, you have sinned. and you would to confess and ask for forgiveness.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#190
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
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#190
those who say they do not sin and will not sin are LIARS..
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#191
Jul 22, 2014
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#191
gb9 said:
I got some news for you Jason: you are going to commit future sin. because knowing to do good and not doing it as sin. and you or me or no one else can 100% guarantee that we will always do what we should do. because if you do not, you have sinned. and you would to confess and ask for forgiveness.
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Not true. Not every believer is going to commit sin their entire lives that leads unto spiritual death (i.e. those sins that Paul lists for those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God). For they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Jesus says, be ye perfect as His Heavenly Father is perfect. If Jesus did no believe you could be perfect, He would have never said this. So no. I choose to believe the BIble over what you are teaching. Also, it has to do with how is one properly dealing with sin in their life? Are they holding on to their sin and thinking it is just forgiven with no actual change in their life between the old man and the new man? What do you think Paul meant by the fact that we used to be sinners in Ephesians 2 and Colossians 3? Why does the Bible describe us as saints instead of describing us as sinners saved by grace? Yes, we used to be sinners, and yes.... believers can struggle with sin. But the man who was more justified before God was the one who cried out to God to have mercy on him versus say the man who did not do so in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee. You are saying there is no way to avoid future sin. No believer can ever stop sinning. Well, with man this is impossible. But with God all things are possible (Which is what Jesus said to his disciples when they were amazed and asked who can be saved). We also know many of the apostles and great men of God where not dominated by sin within their life. No and again; Romans 7 is Paul talking from the perspective as a Jew trying to be justified by the Law before he became a Christian (Compare Romans 7:14 with Romans 8:2). For one cannot be sold under sin and free from sin at the same time.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#192
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#192
blue_ladybug said:
those who say they do not sin and will not sin are LIARS..
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In 1 John 1:8, John is warning the brethren against the false believer's who think they have no sin spiritually. This is like the OSAS proponent today who believes their sin debt is paid for: past, present, and future. So they can say they have no sin. So there is no need for them to confess their sin as per 1 John 1:9. They do not believe confessing sin to be necessary because they are forgiven of all sin, past, present, and future. The only difference between the false believers John was warning us about and the OSAS proponent today is that they will say they believe they sin physically in the flesh while spiritually they are not sinning because it was forgiven them.

The true believer will acknowledge their sin if sin does arise, and they will confess their sin as per 1 John 1:9. Thereby they admit that sin is very real and can potentially effect and harm the believer. So they confess it and they do not act like it is paid for automatically as if it does not exist for them.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#193
Jan 18, 2011
11,703
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#193
I did not say that knowing to good and not doing so was a sin. James said that. if you would, please address that verse.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#194
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#194
Also, true believers will also admit that they may commit unintentional sins or hidden faults that they are not aware of. These are not sins that lead unto death like murdering, hating, lusting, stealing, gettng drunk, and lying, etc.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#195
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
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#195
gb9 said:
I did not say that knowing to good and not doing so was a sin. James said that. if you would, please address that verse.
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I did not say that your reference to James 4:17 was your claim. I have been aware of that verse for a long long time now. Not sure how it supports your viewpoint, though. 1 John 5:16-18 says there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death. So obviously when a person knows to do good (Like say taking out the trash that week and they refuse to do it), it is not a sin that leads unto spiritual death like the sins that Paul lists several times like murder, theft, stealing, lying, lusting, and getting drunk, etc.
 
E

ember

Guest
#196
#196
Jason0047 said:
No one seems to disagree with the fact that they believe in OSAS here (Except you). Do you not believe in OSAS?

And I am not hiding behind OSAS. I don't believe in it. I think it is a doctrine of pure evil. So I am against OSAS and I will fight against it until my last dying breath because I know it leads a person into the thinking they can sin and still be saved (i.e. a doctrine of immorality, which Jude talks about). For even Peter said that there are false prophets who have eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 14). This is perfectly in line with the OSAS belief by many who say that no is perfect and that everyone sins.
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You are hiding behind OSAS because you don't address the scriptures presented that illustrate the error in your interpretation of scripture.

Really
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#197
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
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#197
ember said:
You are hiding behind OSAS because you don't address the scriptures presented that illustrate the error in your interpretation of scripture.

Really
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First, I am not hiding behind anything. Especially not OSAS because it is an evil and dark doctrine of devils. Second, not sure what thread you have been reading, but this is actually the exact opposite of what has been happening here. I have proposed many verses that have been refused to be explained. Whereas any verse that is thrown my way (When I had the time), I have discussed them using Scripture.
 
E

ember

Guest
#198
#198
I am up to here with the once saved always saved doctrine nonsense

If a person IS actually saved...according to how the Bible presents salvation, then YES by gum, they ARE


ALWAYS SAVED

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[SUP]k[/SUP] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8

Now that is how God views a saved person. The are no 'sin' clauses or if, buts cans or maybes

Neither Jason nor anyone else is also included
 
E

ember

Guest
#199
#199
Jason0047 said:
First, I am not hiding behind anything. Especially not OSAS because it is an evil and dark doctrine of devils. Second, not sure what thread you have been reading, but this is actually the exact opposite of what has been happening here. I have proposed many verses that have been refused to be explained. Whereas any verse that is thrown my way (When I had the time), I have discussed them using Scripture.
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oh please...you handily ignored my rather long and time consuming post in response to your post to me a couple of pages back

Then again, you probably just missed it because you are like a guard dog on a chain that is biting at everyone here
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#200
Nov 24, 2012
30,705
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#200
Jason0047 said:
When Paul talks about how we used to be sinners in Ephesians 2 and Colossians 3 he is talking about sins that lead unto the Second Death (the Lake of Fire) or spiritual death. For there are sins that lead unto death and there are sins that do not liead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). Paul lists certain sins several times and warns that those who commit such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul says be not deceived on this matter. Meaning, he is talking to the believer. For unbelievers are already deceived.

However, in time, God will guide His people into walking in His ways according to His Word.
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Again for the third time...'show me one Christian who obeys all of God's Commands, who does not sin. Do you?
 
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