What was the language spoken before Babel
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That's confusing to me. What you expressed as being wrong gets me wondering about Egyptian hieroglyphics uncovered in numerous sites dug up by archaeologists. They obviously tell a story. The exact details regarding the phonetics of ancient Egyptian are not completely known. Egyptology relies on transliteration in scientific publications.
Unlike hieroglyphics, the Hebrew alephbeyt dots and dashes are used for proper pronunciation. Without these dots and dashes, pronunciation is prohibited, but the pictorial letter still remains. As Hebrew is written today there are pictures with dots and dashes in particular places of each picture for reading and speaking. How is is wrong to understand what individual pictures represent and also pronounce the word that envelope several pictures? For example, Jesus says He is the beginning and the end. The beginning is seen by a picture that represents Strength and power. The end is seen by a picture that represents the sign of the cross. If it is wrong to do that, then the question remains how the symbols of the English alphabet ever developed into the shapes that we recognize. The shapes had to begin with a picture from somewhere. This thought of mine also make me wonder what alphabet sign language is for the deaf and dumb of numerous languages throughout the world. Do they all use the same symbols? Surely, they don't use an alphabet as we do, the fingers and hands just ain't that fast.
Unlike hieroglyphics, the Hebrew alephbeyt dots and dashes are used for proper pronunciation. Without these dots and dashes, pronunciation is prohibited, but the pictorial letter still remains. As Hebrew is written today there are pictures with dots and dashes in particular places of each picture for reading and speaking. How is is wrong to understand what individual pictures represent and also pronounce the word that envelope several pictures? For example, Jesus says He is the beginning and the end. The beginning is seen by a picture that represents Strength and power. The end is seen by a picture that represents the sign of the cross. If it is wrong to do that, then the question remains how the symbols of the English alphabet ever developed into the shapes that we recognize. The shapes had to begin with a picture from somewhere. This thought of mine also make me wonder what alphabet sign language is for the deaf and dumb of numerous languages throughout the world. Do they all use the same symbols? Surely, they don't use an alphabet as we do, the fingers and hands just ain't that fast.
Then the letter means nothing more than a particular sound to you. I C It (the letter) means more to me, and when I read the word that it is in, I always relate it to scripture. I was wondering if you knew how it got its shape, from a particular sound, or a particular thought? What on earth was the inventor of "shin" thinking anyway?
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You are right. So what do you suppose the "shin" ש picture represented in the past before it was given "jots" and "tittles" giving ability to pronounce it according to the word it was incorporated into that contributed to the understanding of the hearer? Just wondering what you see in the shape. I see fire, even though it supposedly represents the 2 front teeth which makes little sense to me. Although "teeth" could relate to separation.
"If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the Lord for a sin ( אשמה guilt Strong's 819 ) offering." Leviticus 4:3
There is a comparison between the guilt of sin and fire.
"And if ought of the flesh of the consecrations, or of the bread, remain unto the morning, then thou shalt burn the remainder with fire ( אש fire Strong's 784 ): it shall not be eaten, because it is holy." Exodus 29:34
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Matthew 3:11
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:15
"If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the Lord for a sin ( אשמה guilt Strong's 819 ) offering." Leviticus 4:3
There is a comparison between the guilt of sin and fire.
"And if ought of the flesh of the consecrations, or of the bread, remain unto the morning, then thou shalt burn the remainder with fire ( אש fire Strong's 784 ): it shall not be eaten, because it is holy." Exodus 29:34
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Matthew 3:11
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:15
I think it was multiple people. There were more than 12 people that were rescued by Joseph. There were 66 men not including women and children. So there were well over 100 people for sure, probably closer to 200 give or take. They all were the chip/chips off the ole block. LOL 
"All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;" Genesis 46:26
I think Esau and Jacob could talk to each other in the same language. But it appears that this communication stopped after Jacob came to Egypt.
"All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;" Genesis 46:26
I think Esau and Jacob could talk to each other in the same language. But it appears that this communication stopped after Jacob came to Egypt.
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If the Hebrew Alephbeyt is only Phonetic for today, how can it be spoken when there are no vowels in that language? The answer is jots and tittles added for verbal understanding and diction. They are necessary for sure.
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18
Therefore the law is supposed to be verbalized. I thought that I just would "jot" that down. LOL
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18
Therefore the law is supposed to be verbalized. I thought that I just would "jot" that down. LOL
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E
I think it was multiple people. There were more than 12 people that were rescued by Joseph. There were 66 men not including women and children. So there were well over 100 people for sure, probably closer to 200 give or take. They all were the chip/chips off the ole block. LOL
"All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;" Genesis 46:26
I think Esau and Jacob could talk to each other in the same language. But it appears that this communication stopped after Jacob came to Egypt.
"All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;" Genesis 46:26
I think Esau and Jacob could talk to each other in the same language. But it appears that this communication stopped after Jacob came to Egypt.
Abraham had many sons, Ishmael was just one of them. I am sure Esau and Jacob could speak just fine, considering they were both sons of only one of abrahams children.
Ishmael would have spoken abrahams tongue, why did he not take it with him? or any of this other children? Why did they not take it with them? Abraham had many children.
Gen 25:
25 Abraham again took a wife, and her name was Keturah. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And she bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Jokshan begot Sheba and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, Letushim, and Leummim. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And the sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanoch, Abidah, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And Abraham gave all that he had to Isaac. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But Abraham gave gifts to the sons of the concubines which Abraham had; and while he was still living he sent them eastward, away from Isaac his son, to the country of the east.
and what about Lot and Nahor (abrahams brothers) whould they not have spoke the same language?
I do not disagree at all. The Egyptian letters are so close to Hebrew letters that it's hard to tell the difference between the 2 ancient written languages. Joseph obviously spoke the language of Abraham, and he became the most prominent ruler 2nd only to the Pharaoh. It is logical that the language had a very close resemblance between them if not the same during Abraham's day.
In Genesis 12, Abraham relocates from Chaldea to Canaan. When a famine arises in Canaan, Abraham is told to move to Egypt. During his stay in Egypt, which could have been a few years, Abraham had extensive contact with the pharaoh and the upper echelon of Egypt. For example, verse 16 says that the pharaoh entreated Abraham. In other words, Abraham and his descendants had a decisive presence in and influence over ancient Egyptian civilization!
The nephew of Shem "Phut" Ham's son who settled in the land that became known as Egypt. I'm sure the language was the same with these brothers. Shem's son was "Lud" and he settled west northwest of "Phut." See Genesis 10:6 and verse 22. These are Noah's grandchildren. So what was the language spoken before Babel? That's rhetorical question is only for provoking thought for whoever sees and reads this.
May God Almighty bless you all.
In Genesis 12, Abraham relocates from Chaldea to Canaan. When a famine arises in Canaan, Abraham is told to move to Egypt. During his stay in Egypt, which could have been a few years, Abraham had extensive contact with the pharaoh and the upper echelon of Egypt. For example, verse 16 says that the pharaoh entreated Abraham. In other words, Abraham and his descendants had a decisive presence in and influence over ancient Egyptian civilization!
The nephew of Shem "Phut" Ham's son who settled in the land that became known as Egypt. I'm sure the language was the same with these brothers. Shem's son was "Lud" and he settled west northwest of "Phut." See Genesis 10:6 and verse 22. These are Noah's grandchildren. So what was the language spoken before Babel? That's rhetorical question is only for provoking thought for whoever sees and reads this.
May God Almighty bless you all.
E
I do not disagree at all. The Egyptian letters are so close to Hebrew letters that it's hard to tell the difference between the 2 ancient written languages. Joseph obviously spoke the language of Abraham, and he became the most prominent ruler 2nd only to the Pharaoh. It is logical that the language had a very close resemblance between them if not the same during Abraham's day.
In Genesis 12, Abraham relocates from Chaldea to Canaan. When a famine arises in Canaan, Abraham is told to move to Egypt. During his stay in Egypt, which could have been a few years, Abraham had extensive contact with the pharaoh and the upper echelon of Egypt. For example, verse 16 says that the pharaoh entreated Abraham. In other words, Abraham and his descendants had a decisive presence in and influence over ancient Egyptian civilization!
The nephew of Shem "Phut" Ham's son who settled in the land that became known as Egypt. I'm sure the language was the same with these brothers. Shem's son was "Lud" and he settled west northwest of "Phut." See Genesis 10:6 and verse 22. These are Noah's grandchildren. So what was the language spoken before Babel? That's rhetorical question is only for provoking thought for whoever sees and reads this.
May God Almighty bless you all.
In Genesis 12, Abraham relocates from Chaldea to Canaan. When a famine arises in Canaan, Abraham is told to move to Egypt. During his stay in Egypt, which could have been a few years, Abraham had extensive contact with the pharaoh and the upper echelon of Egypt. For example, verse 16 says that the pharaoh entreated Abraham. In other words, Abraham and his descendants had a decisive presence in and influence over ancient Egyptian civilization!
The nephew of Shem "Phut" Ham's son who settled in the land that became known as Egypt. I'm sure the language was the same with these brothers. Shem's son was "Lud" and he settled west northwest of "Phut." See Genesis 10:6 and verse 22. These are Noah's grandchildren. So what was the language spoken before Babel? That's rhetorical question is only for provoking thought for whoever sees and reads this.
May God Almighty bless you all.
hebrew is a mix of abrahams language and egyptian language and also mixed with the language of canaan (since abraham spent so many days there and even was buried there)
and would not be the original language as some claim.
And yet again. Abraham was a descendent of Shem.
Canaan and Egypt were descendents of Japeth. they would not have spoke the same language. God confused the languages at babel so they could not communicate. The egyptians would not have been able to communicate with the the people who went to were abraham was.
Of course by the time of Abraham. it is consistent that they would have learned each others language by this time. so abraham speaking with an Egyption (who was also a gentile power in the region) is not hard to fathom at all.
Not only Torah, but all of the earliest scrolls were written without pointing and all Jewish males, from the time they were four years old, were taught to read them that way. The Mesoretic text, with chapters, verses, and vowel pointings, was developed between the sixth and tenth centuries A.D. Each of your so-called dots and dashes has a name has a name.
Some are punctuation, some are vowel sounds, and some are musical notation.
Long before Hebrew had vowel pointings, to show pronunciation; it had cantilation marks to inform the reader how to sing it. The entire OT was written to be sung. Cantilation marks also reveal the inflection of the speaker's voice: This is often the only distinction between a statement and a question.
Your so-called jots and tittles had NOTHING to do with vowels!! The translators of the NT were, for the most part, not Hebrew scholars; which explains the name variation between OT and NT.
the jot refers to the dagesh a dot within a letter which either doubles the letter or changes its phonemic value.
the tittle refers to cantillation marks that work like sheet music, informing the reader how to sing each phrase.
Vowels were not introduced until between the 6th and 10th centuries A.D. and were unknown in the first century; except that aleph, vahv, yohd, and ayn function as semi vowels.
the jot refers to the dagesh a dot within a letter which either doubles the letter or changes its phonemic value.
the tittle refers to cantillation marks that work like sheet music, informing the reader how to sing each phrase.
Vowels were not introduced until between the 6th and 10th centuries A.D. and were unknown in the first century; except that aleph, vahv, yohd, and ayn function as semi vowels.
The jots and tittles that I mentioned are not mine. They obviously were there approximately 2000 years before I was born. The Hebrew Alephbeyt have no vowels to help with verbalization without them unless they have dots and lines in particular placing. I have learned, after studying where these terms came from, that these are the jots and tittles that Jesus is referring to.
I agree with your 2nd line, but I didn't know we were to sing the law. I'll have to consult a person from the Hebrew Roots to understand that one. LOL
Your 3rd line I partially agree with except the aleph and ayin/ayn are silent.
[video=youtube;Uz_m118Yheg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz_m118Yheg[/video]
This video explains the verbiage in which I speak. God bless
I agree with your 2nd line, but I didn't know we were to sing the law. I'll have to consult a person from the Hebrew Roots to understand that one. LOL
Your 3rd line I partially agree with except the aleph and ayin/ayn are silent.
[video=youtube;Uz_m118Yheg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz_m118Yheg[/video]
This video explains the verbiage in which I speak. God bless
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There is truly a song of Moses, Song of Solomon, the Song of Deborah, Songs of the Psalms by David and others, but most of what I read in scripture is that the scrolls are read to the congregation, and by those that have the book in their possession. The singing was done mostly by the Levitical priesthood, which really is not the subject of the thread but it is referring to the Hebrew language anyway.
Examples in scriptures of reading the book.
Nehemiah 8:1-3
1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the Lord had commanded to Israel.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.
"Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them." Isaiah 34:16
"And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" Mark 12:26
Examples in scriptures of reading the book.
Nehemiah 8:1-3
1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the Lord had commanded to Israel.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.
"Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them." Isaiah 34:16
"And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" Mark 12:26