What was the language spoken before Babel

[just-me]

When God spoke light and everything in creation I believe he was speaking Hebrew

why would you say that. what proof do you have?

I personally believe he spoke a language non of us know yet.

That could very well be. I don't know what lifestyleChristainsity thinks about this but there is a reason that I think he might be right in that Jesus spoke Hebrew to Saul in the road to Damascus. I can't think of any other reason for Luke mentioning that other than the original Hebrew is a God given language relating it to the seed of Abraham. After all Jesus spoke it from heaven. I'm sure both Luke, and Paul knew that there was something special about the Hebrew tongue that Jesus spoke, otherwise it would not have been important to mention it.

Acts26:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Many will say that Jesus spoke Aramaic when he said "with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

Eli is of Hebrew origin from what I've studied. The same words are in Psalm 22:1 written in Hebrew text.
אֵלִי אֵלִי, לָמָה עֲזַבְתָּנִ


Concerning the cry on the cross (quote from Psalm 22:1), the Peshitta (the earliest christian Aramaic translation) translate it using the word alaha, with the first person possessive suffix -i : alahi (ܐܲܠܵܗܝ ܐܲܠܵܗܝ ܠܡܵܢܵܐ ܫܒܲܩ̣ܬܵܢܝ̱ ). The original Hebrew Psalm used "Eli". Since the translator of the Greek gospel may not have been fluent in Aramaic, or used to transliterate Aramaic with Greek characters, it may be expected that the transliterations are approximates, hence a possible : eloi/alohi confusion.

 

[MarcR]

The jots and tittles that I mentioned are not mine. They obviously were there approximately 2000 years before I was born. The Hebrew Alephbeyt have no vowels to help with verbalization without them unless they have dots and lines in particular placing. I have learned, after studying where these terms came from, that these are the jots and tittles that Jesus is referring to.

I agree with your 2nd line, but I didn't know we were to sing the law. I'll have to consult a person from the Hebrew Roots to understand that one. LOL

Your 3rd line I partially agree with except the aleph and ayin/ayn are silent.

[video=youtube;Uz_m118Yheg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz_m118Yheg[/video]


This video explains the verbiage in which I speak. God bless

Aleph and ayin take the sound of their vowel pointing, when present. When absent, aleph sounds like the a in about; and ayin takes the sound of segol hataq.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That could very well be. I don't know what lifestyleChristainsity thinks about this but there is a reason that I think he might be right in that Jesus spoke Hebrew to Saul in the road to Damascus. I can't think of any other reason for Luke mentioning that other than the original Hebrew is a God given language relating it to the seed of Abraham. After all Jesus spoke it from heaven. I'm sure both Luke, and Paul knew that there was something special about the Hebrew tongue that Jesus spoke, otherwise it would not have been important to mention it.

Acts26:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Many will say that Jesus spoke Aramaic when he said "with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

Eli is of Hebrew origin from what I've studied. The same words are in Psalm 22:1 written in Hebrew text.
אֵלִי אֵלִי, לָמָה עֲזַבְתָּנִ


Concerning the cry on the cross (quote from Psalm 22:1), the Peshitta (the earliest christian Aramaic translation) translate it using the word alaha, with the first person possessive suffix -i : alahi (ܐܲܠܵܗܝ ܐܲܠܵܗܝ ܠܡܵܢܵܐ ܫܒܲܩ̣ܬܵܢܝ̱ ). The original Hebrew Psalm used "Eli". Since the translator of the Greek gospel may not have been fluent in Aramaic, or used to transliterate Aramaic with Greek characters, it may be expected that the transliterations are approximates, hence a possible : eloi/alohi confusion.

saul was a jew, His native language was Hebrew. He was also fluent in greek and other languages I am sure, But He was a jew, Jesus spoke to him as a jew, not as a greek. Your reading way to much into that. it does not prove anything.

sorry, To much evidence would suggest otherwise.

We have been trying to give yuo all this evidence. but yuo do not seem to want to care of even give it a second thought.

As I said, I believe Jesus spoke a language we do not know. or have not heard.

this continued trying to go back to hebrew roots is just astonishing. Do you not think God has better things for us to do. Like love our neighbors, and learn of his infinate love?

 

[just-me]

saul was a jew, His native language was Hebrew. He was also fluent in greek and other languages I am sure, But He was a jew, Jesus spoke to him as a jew, not as a greek. Your reading way to much into that. it does not prove anything.

sorry, To much evidence would suggest otherwise.

We have been trying to give yuo all this evidence. but yuo do not seem to want to care of even give it a second thought.

As I said, I believe Jesus spoke a language we do not know. or have not heard.

this continued trying to go back to hebrew roots is just astonishing. Do you not think God has better things for us to do. Like love our neighbors, and learn of his infinate love?

You're right. Paul spoke many languages including Hebrew. (1 Corinthians 14:18) I have learned more than I knew a week ago from you guys. This thread is an offshoot of another thread concerning the Hebrew language and the Lord's prayer. I assure you that I am skeptical of this so called Hebrews roots movement as many have voiced here in CC. I don't agree with them from all I have studied about them even though in some things they may have good things that edify according to God's desire. I have no desire to be part of them and there are many offshoots/sects in them as I understand.

Anyway I think this thread is more interesting than the unedifying thread of "speak your mind", 10,620 post so far since the beginning of this month. Evidently that one is more interesting than any other thread that I've ever seen on CC by the number of posts and pages. I think that there would be better things to do there. At least this thread is a Bible discussion. I don't mean to be critical, but facts are facts. I have a new testament Hebrew bible coming that should be here tomorrow, but the KJV is my primary. Call just-me (not righteous, just simple) just-curious. Maybe I ought to change my chat name. LOL

Oh. speaking of love, I don't want to get into another argument about how to exact that according to the law. I've tried talking about love in CC and it always turns into an argument and name calling. Me thinks no thanks.

Sincerely
Just-me alias Just-simple, or just-curious

 

[just-me]

Aleph and ayin take the sound of their vowel pointing, when present. When absent, aleph sounds like the a in about; and ayin takes the sound of segol hataq.

Thanks. ....................

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You're right. Paul spoke many languages including Hebrew. (1 Corinthians 14:18) I have learned more than I knew a week ago from you guys. This thread is an offshoot of another thread concerning the Hebrew language and the Lord's prayer. I assure you that I am skeptical of this so called Hebrews roots movement as many have voiced here in CC. I don't agree with them from all I have studied about them even though in some things they may have good things that edify according to God's desire. I have no desire to be part of them and there are many offshoots/sects in them as I understand.

Anyway I think this thread is more interesting than the unedifying thread of "speak your mind", 10,620 post so far since the beginning of this month. Evidently that one is more interesting than any other thread that I've ever seen on CC by the number of posts and pages. I think that there would be better things to do there. At least this thread is a Bible discussion. I don't mean to be critical, but facts are facts. I have a new testament Hebrew bible coming that should be here tomorrow, but the KJV is my primary. Call just-me (not righteous, just simple) just-curious. Maybe I ought to change my chat name. LOL

Oh. speaking of love, I don't want to get into another argument about how to exact that according to the law. I've tried talking about love in CC and it always turns into an argument and name calling. Me thinks no thanks.

Sincerely
Just-me alias Just-simple, or just-curious

its ok. Like I said I love history and all that stuff also. And love to discuss it, I just hate it when they are one way, I have actually learned some things in this thread myself, and had to go back and review some things, because it got me to question some things, and that is always a good thing!

I agree with you on the hebrew roots. just another way I think Satan uses to keep us from Gods truth

 

[LifestyleChristianity]

why would you say that. what proof do you have?

I personally believe he spoke a language non of us know yet.

Because in Hebrew is a language God gave Israel And the Language actually means a number picture and word. God chose to communicate this with us With encrypted messages to us.
But this I guess you could say is a personal belief but I'm believing it's Hebrew whether it is or isn't doesn't matter isn't going to make a difference in salvation. For all we know God could have spoken in tongues lol.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

one of my first studies was of the temple. and how God made them build it. Acacia wood covered in gold. Gold in its perfect form represents Christ, The acacia wood represents us. the whole picture represents a flawed dieing sinner covered by the perfect gold of God.

there is so much symbology in the temple and priesthood I think every new christian should study and see it.

in fact, I may one day make a study out of it again, and right up something I can share with our younger christians.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because in Hebrew is a language God gave Israel And the Language actually means a number picture and word. God chose to communicate this with us With encrypted messages to us.
But this I guess you could say is a personal belief but I'm believing it's Hebrew whether it is or isn't doesn't matter isn't going to make a difference in salvation. For all we know God could have spoken in tongues lol.

lol. Yep God speaks to us in our own language. And your right, it is not something we should argue about!

 

[LifestyleChristianity]

lol. Yep God speaks to us in our own language. And your right, it is not something we should argue about!

Exactly Glad to see someone still believe God speaks today.

 

[Nick01]

If the Hebrew Alephbeyt is only Phonetic for today, how can it be spoken when there are no vowels in that language? The answer is jots and tittles added for verbal understanding and diction. They are necessary for sure.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18
Therefore the law is supposed to be verbalized. I thought that I just would "jot" that down. LOL

An experiment

Y ctlly dn't rlly nd vwls wthn wrttn txt fr th mnng t b pln. vn n nglsh, w cn stll ndrstnd cnsnntl txt, fr th mst prt, bcs f cntxt nd n lmst sbcnscsly cndtnd ndrstndng f wht cmbntns f vwl snds nd cnsnntl lttrs g tgthr, nd nglsh s dfntly n f th mst vwl dpndnt wrttn lnggs vr. Crtnly n wrttn clsscl lnggs, vwls thmslvs r mstly rdndnt, nd smply cdfy wht s lrdy mplct n th txt.


ncnt Hbrw dvlpd ths xtnsvly, bcs ppl wr tght hw t prnnc th txt, nd thy wr smply mch bttr t t thn w r.


Bsclly, y cn hv cnsnntl lngg (wtht ny vwls) tht s phntc s lng s th symbls ctlly ndct spcfc phnms t b prnncd nstd th mgs ndct thng (lk hrglyphcs, fr nstnc)

 

[Desdichado]

To answer the OP, English. God is an Englishman.

 

[Tintin]

Who is Hindustan? I don't remember him being in the Table of Nations.

 

[Tintin]

An experiment

Y ctlly dn't rlly nd vwls wthn wrttn txt fr th mnng t b pln. vn n nglsh, w cn stll ndrstnd cnsnntl txt, fr th mst prt, bcs f cntxt nd n lmst sbcnscsly cndtnd ndrstndng f wht cmbntns f vwl snds nd cnsnntl lttrs g tgthr, nd nglsh s dfntly n f th mst vwl dpndnt wrttn lnggs vr. Crtnly n wrttn clsscl lnggs, vwls thmslvs r mstly rdndnt, nd smply cdfy wht s lrdy mplct n th txt.


ncnt Hbrw dvlpd ths xtnsvly, bcs ppl wr tght hw t prnnc th txt, nd thy wr smply mch bttr t t thn w r.


Bsclly, y cn hv cnsnntl lngg (wtht ny vwls) tht s phntc s lng s th symbls ctlly ndct spcfc phnms t b prnncd nstd th mgs ndct thng (lk hrglyphcs, fr nstnc)

Stop it! I understood bits and pieces of what your post, but not much at all. Now my brain hurts.

 

[Nick01]

Stop it! I understood bits and pieces of what your post, but not much at all. Now my brain hurts.

Haha, I used too many big words (consonantal is not a good word to use in everyday conversation ).

It would probably actually be much easier if I switched vowels around instead of taking them out.. As I said, English, and several other modern languages, are interesting because of their particular vowel dependancy (a lot of which is just inherited the Latin alphabet and grammar), but there are ways around it. Mobile phone speak, for the longest time, was basically just english without vowels. It killed me too, but it makes a certain kind of sense, because you can have a written language without vowels, but not without consonants.

 

[Tintin]

Thank you, Angela! Is this the one?

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon (BDB) - Biblical Dictionaries - Bible-Discovery Software

Also, are you familiar with this book? If so, is it worth reading? Thanks.

https://www.eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_4BS1FFMPN.HTM

Okay, I've downloaded this software and I've just ordered Richard S. Hess' book, Studies in the Personal Names of Genesis 1-11

 

[just-me]

After all the input that I have gotten about the Hebrew language and other languages, about the way they are spoken, and written, (thank you all for that, really!) I think the Hebrew language was the first of all the God given languages. When God confused the languages during the time of Babel, all those languages were also given by God because the confusion wasn't what the human race wanted. It was forced on them. What convinced me was when Jesus spoke to Saul from heaven, and scripture clearly states the language that Jesus spoke. Jesus could have used a thought process, or anything else He desired to get the message across without saying a word, but He didn't.

2 Corinthians 12:2-5
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

Before you jump to conclusions about this, I did research on the times of Paul's conversion, and when he wrote this to the Corinthians. "Above 14 years" means more than, but not quite a completion of 15 years.

 

[Nick01]

Well, I still think it's highly unlikely that Hebrew was the original language (given we know of older languages to which Hebrew was related and from which it evolved), but I think we're at the point where we have to agree to disagree.

I don't think the fact that Jesus spoke 'the Hebrew dialekto' to Saul is definitive (mostly because it tells us nothing about what was spoken at the beginning of civilisation, also because it's not entirely clear what Luke means by the phrase), so I don't think it's possible to say with any confidence what the original language was. Certainly, the Hebrew that written, and therefore most likely spoken, in first century Judea was already meaningfully different to the Hebrew of the Old Testament.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

After all the input that I have gotten about the Hebrew language and other languages, about the way they are spoken, and written, (thank you all for that, really!) I think the Hebrew language was the first of all the God given languages. When God confused the languages during the time of Babel, all those languages were also given by God because the confusion wasn't what the human race wanted. It was forced on them. What convinced me was when Jesus spoke to Saul from heaven, and scripture clearly states the language that Jesus spoke. Jesus could have used a thought process, or anything else He desired to get the message across without saying a word, but He didn't.

2 Corinthians 12:2-5
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

Before you jump to conclusions about this, I did research on the times of Paul's conversion, and when he wrote this to the Corinthians. "Above 14 years" means more than, but not quite a completion of 15 years.

paul was a trained pharisee who would have spoken fluent hebrew...obviously God would have spoken to paul in a language he understood...this proves -absolutely nothing- about what the first human language was...

 

[MarcR]

There is truly a song of Moses, Song of Solomon, the Song of Deborah, Songs of the Psalms by David and others, but most of what I read in scripture is that the scrolls are read to the congregation, and by those that have the book in their possession. The singing was done mostly by the Levitical priesthood, which really is not the subject of the thread but it is referring to the Hebrew language anyway.

Examples in scriptures of reading the book.
Nehemiah 8:1-3
1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the Lord had commanded to Israel.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.

"Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them." Isaiah 34:16

"And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" Mark 12:26

The Torah scrolls, used in synagogues since before the Babylonian Captivity, have no vowel pointings; but do have cantilation marks. Many who are called to read from the torah each Sabbath sing the passage assigned to them.

When a boy is bar-mitzvahed he will often sing both his torah reading and his hoftorah (portion from the profits).

On Purim and Simchat Torah the Cantor will usually sing the entire books of Esther and Ruth. And on the Sabbath will usually sing the psalms of the hallel.