Scriptures that prove the post trib rapture.

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Apr 13, 2011
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your gap theory and pre-trib rapture would not hold up if you actually read ALL of the BIBLE and see how the OT foretells of JESUS saving the Gentiles TOO before PAUL was even in the picture.

Isaiah 11
10 “ And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,
Who shall stand as a banner to the people;
For the Gentiles shall seek Him,
And His resting place shall be glorious.”
First, Ananda, there are no "lies to my words". You may not agree with what I am saying, but I am not lying, I assure you.

Gentiles have always picked up the "crumbs" that were available. Rahab the harlot is just one example.

The mystery was that the gentiles would be of the same body, joint partakers of the promises. Prior to Pentecost, this was unheard of. Gentiles were thought of as dogs by the jews. The promises were to Israel.

Rom 9:
3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

The mystery and pretrib rapture are biblical.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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First, Ananda, there are no "lies to my words". You may not agree with what I am saying, but I am not lying, I assure you.

Gentiles have always picked up the "crumbs" that were available. Rahab the harlot is just one example.

The mystery was that the gentiles would be of the same body, joint partakers of the promises. Prior to Pentecost, this was unheard of. Gentiles were thought of as dogs by the jews. The promises were to Israel.

Rom 9:
3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

The mystery and pretrib rapture are biblical.
Luke 16
1And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods. 2And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward. 3Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed. 4I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses. 5So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord? 6And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty. 7Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore. 8And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. 9And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

10He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. 11If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? 13No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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you are leaving OUT what THE MYSTERY ITSELF WAS:

not that there would be a people saved, not that they would be from all nations - NEITHER OF THESE WERE EVER UNKNOWN (Hebrews 11), but that THIS WOULD BE ACCOMPLISHED BY THE GOSPEL.
This is the mystery:
Eph 3:
3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; ...
5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Abram was a gentile!
That's right.

shroom, please don't dig in your heels now. this is the worst time to do it.

be willing to put what you currently believe about The Plan to one side just long enough to consider.
you can always go back to dispensationalism if you must.

please reconsider.
I sincerely appreciate your concern. Believe me, I consider a lot of things. I want to believe what is right. I know you all are adamant in your belief that dispensationalism is false, and the pretrib rapture is a lie. I disagree with you, and I think the bible disagrees with you. I've been a Christian for a long time, and am confident in what I believe. It's good to hear your differing views, because it does make me think and go to the word. I'm sticking with what I believe the bible teaches.

Christianity is ISRAEL EXPANDED SHROOM! called out! not a mystery!
That the gentiles are fellow heirs, and joint partakers, was indeed a secret. Ephesians says so.

Bless.
 
D

DaivdM

Guest
Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”

Romans 5:3
And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;

2 Corinthians 1:4
who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

Revelation 7:14
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
You are confusing Tribulations with the Great Tribulatiion
Tribulations I have now....

Great Tribulation is something else dont you think?
 
Jan 31, 2015
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Luke17:26-36 explains rapture

Mark 13 explains the end time and it closes with open coming

in both these passages only the following verses are similar

in that day he who is on the housetops not come down to take his goods......

This shows that rapture happens immediately after the antichrist is revealed to the world
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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151
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Luke17:26-36 explains rapture

Mark 13 explains the end time and it closes with open coming

in both these passages only the following verses are similar

in that day he who is on the housetops not come down to take his goods......

This shows that rapture happens immediately after the antichrist is revealed to the world
I don't think it shows that Christ returns immediately after the antichrist is revealed. Rather, it's a warning to flee because the antichrist is going on a killing spree. There would be no need to warn people to flee if Christ was showing up to Rapture us.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
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Of course there would be a need to warn about Antichrist even after the Rapture. There will be many believers after the Rapture, particularly because of the proof of the Rapture.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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I have found this thread very sad and unchristian. No one has a right to post on here and insult those who reply in disagreement, This is a discussion site. If anyone has a complaint then let them go to the mods and abide by their decision. That is the Christian way, not unpleasant and unchristian remarks to one another
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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Luke17:26-36 explains rapture

Mark 13 explains the end time and it closes with open coming

in both these passages only the following verses are similar

in that day he who is on the housetops not come down to take his goods......

This shows that rapture happens immediately after the antichrist is revealed to the world
But Mark makes clear that he is concentrating his attention on the destruction of the Temple that the disciples were looking at (Mk 13.4). Thus the fleeing into the mountains refers to 70 AD. It has no connection with the rapture.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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Of course there would be a need to warn about Antichrist even after the Rapture. There will be many believers after the Rapture, particularly because of the proof of the Rapture.
Can you show me one verse that supports this position? Show me a great revival after the Rapture and before the Man of Sin. I can show you a great falling away, not a great revival.
 
Jan 31, 2015
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And I saw thrones and they sat on them and judgement was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the Word of God who had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. BUT THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection (Revelation 20: 4,5)

In the above verses the only dead mentioned are those martyred by the beast. And the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. So none of the other dead rose up with this group or later before the millennium.

This leads us to two conclusions

1. Only those martyred by the beast will participate in the thousand year reign. The Apostles and those dead in Christ will not.

Or

2. The resurrection of the apostles and the other believers who died in Christ took place before the resurrection of those martyred by the beast.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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And I saw thrones and they sat on them and judgement was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the Word of God who had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. BUT THE REST OF THE DEAD DID NOT LIVE AGAIN until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection (Revelation 20: 4,5)

In the above verses the only dead mentioned are those martyred by the beast. And the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. So none of the other dead rose up with this group or later before the millennium.
well that depends on how you translate the Greek. The more probable translation is 'the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the Word of God, and of those who had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands' thus signifying all true believers.

This leads us to two conclusions

1. Only those martyred by the beast will participate in the thousand year reign. The Apostles and those dead in Christ will not.

Or

2. The resurrection of the apostles and the other believers who died in Christ took place before the resurrection of those martyred by the beast.
you miss the third and correct solution. That these mentioned live and reigned with Christ throughout this age. Note it is their SOULS which live and reigned with Christ, not their bodies. The first resurrection was the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and they had participated in it, as have living saints (Eph 2.5-6; Col 3.1). The 'thousand years' is a cover all figure for the martyrs were not all martyred at the same time but have been through the centuries, and the other saints who died and went to be with Christ have been spread out similarly. So there is no place for a millennium :)
 
Jan 31, 2015
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Since we know that the apostles and other believers who died in Christ will participate in the millennial reign we can conclude that the first resurrection means the resurrection that happens before the millennial reign and that it happens in two phases

First phase:
For The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet The Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with The Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17)
During this phase the dead in Christ and believers who are ready are caught up to meet Christ in the air

Second phase:
Behold I tell you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed (1Corinthians15:51,52)

During the last trumpet at the open coming of Christ, the believers who are still alive after the tribulation are changed and those martyred by the beast are raised up
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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First, Ananda, there are no "lies to my words". You may not agree with what I am saying, but I am not lying, I assure you.

Gentiles have always picked up the "crumbs" that were available. Rahab the harlot is just one example.

The mystery was that the gentiles would be of the same body, joint partakers of the promises. Prior to Pentecost, this was unheard of. Gentiles were thought of as dogs by the jews. The promises were to Israel.

Rom 9:
3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

The mystery and pretrib rapture are biblical.
But Gentiles could be partakers of the promises whenever they were willing to become YHWH worshippers (Ex 12.48). The mixed multitude of Ex 12.38 became part of Israel when they accepted the covenant at Sinai. All though the centuries proselytes became members of Israel. So what you say is not true.

There will be no pretrib rapture simply because the great tribulation of Matthew 24 commenced in 70 AD and has continued to the present time. The great tribulation of Rev 7 has occurred through the centuries.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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Since we know that the apostles and other believers who died in Christ will participate in the millennial reign we can conclude that the first resurrection means the resurrection that happens before the millennial reign and that it happens in two phases

First phase:
For The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet The Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with The Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17)
During this phase the dead in Christ and believers who are ready are caught up to meet Christ in the air

Second phase:
Behold I tell you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed (1Corinthians15:51,52)

During the last trumpet at the open coming of Christ, the believers who are still alive after the tribulation are changed and those martyred by the beast are raised up
There are not two phases. The verses are referring to the same event. There will be no millennial reign. Christ is reigning with His saints NOW.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest

Numbers 22:21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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There are not two phases. The verses are referring to the same event. There will be no millennial reign. Christ is reigning with His saints NOW.
outside the doubtful Rev 20 there is no clear mention of the millennium in the whole of the New Testament
 
Jan 31, 2015
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In the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, the golden head, silver chest and arms, bronze belly and thighs, legs and feet of iron and clay all represent the various kingdoms which ruled the Earth. The ten toes represent the kingdom of the antichrist with the ten kings. In Daniel 2:44 we read that in the days of these ten kings, the stone uncut by hand which represents Christ's reign came down and removed all human governments and started ruling the earth. That is the millennial reign of Christ.
 
C

Chrysolite

Guest
According to what I've studied, after the tribulation of those days refers to the tribulation of the 7 trumpets in which the Great Tribulation is the 7th and last one. This is the most intense and worse tribulation of all. This is where the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give light and the powers of heaven will be shaken. This is a cosmic destruction, the end of the Universe. This is when the rapture will happen just before the Great Tribulation of the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet.

So, my view is post tribulation (of those days) and pre Great Tribulation.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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In the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, the golden head, silver chest and arms, bronze belly and thighs, legs and feet of iron and clay all represent the various kingdoms which ruled the Earth. The ten toes represent the kingdom of the antichrist with the ten kings. In Daniel 2:44 we read that in the days of these ten kings, the stone uncut by hand which represents Christ's reign came down and removed all human governments and started ruling the earth. That is the millennial reign of Christ.
it is an everlasting kingdom. How can it be the millennial kingdom? The whole point is that mankind's attempts to rule have been replaced by the eternal kingdom. There is no mention of ruling on earth.